France & Germany & Europe, oh my!

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

My brother returned last week from his trip to Germany and France. He
described some of his adventures. He was there for a wedding,
although I can't remember what country it was in.

I was entertained by his description of some of the "holy relics" at
some of the cathedrals around Europe, including the bones of the three
wise men. He bought a stone supposedly taken from one of the
buildings, and in that spirit he calls it the "rock that David used to
kill Goliath."

Anyway, he said a few things that I found to be a little odd in his
stories:

1. He described a German tax law that if you claim to be Catholic or
Protestant, you get an extra tax and it goes to support all the
maintenance of the old churches and cathedrals. This makes sense, I
suppose, I'm sure maintaining all the old stuff in Europe is
outrageously pricey. I think Americans should be glad that the
natives didn't leave too much behind in the huge-monument department.

2. He claimed that he had a side dish in Germany that consisted of a
lump of butter, rolled in bread crumbs and batter, and then flash
fried. Now I eat a lot of grossly unhealthy stuff, but this takes the
cake! Is this for real?

Actually, it sounds tasty...He brought back some "kinderfriends."
Apparently people really like their hazelnuts! But there was no
health information on there :-/

3. Apparently some of the toilets he visited have what is referred to
as an "inspection ledge" on which one's excrement collects as you do
your business. Is this typical?

4. This is the one I am most dubious of--he rode with some of his
friends in cars in various places, and from what he could tell, if
there were any rules for driving, nobody actually paid any attention
to them. I'm assuming he is exaggerating, but I tend to be a cautious
driver, and if I ever went I'd worry about being eaten alive (as I am
in major US cities).

Someday I shall travel to Europe, once I figure out how to not look
quite so...um...American. I guess I will have to learn how to use a
bidet, too, eh? Blech.

-Zac
53 answers Last reply
More about france germany europe
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote:

    >My brother returned last week from his trip to Germany and France. He
    >described some of his adventures. He was there for a wedding,
    >although I can't remember what country it was in.

    >Anyway, he said a few things that I found to be a little odd in his
    >stories:

    >1. He described a German tax law that if you claim to be Catholic or
    >Protestant, you get an extra tax and it goes to support all the
    >maintenance of the old churches and cathedrals. This makes sense, I
    >suppose, I'm sure maintaining all the old stuff in Europe is
    >outrageously pricey. I think Americans should be glad that the
    >natives didn't leave too much behind in the huge-monument department.

    Yes, that is true, "church tax" is in existence, but only as long as
    you are an official member of the catholic or protestant church.
    The tax is i think 1% of your income tax, so not really much and once
    your leave the official religions, you are exempted for it.

    The tax does not really go into maintaining all those old buildings,
    that happens in part probably, but mostly it goes into caritative
    organisation.

    >2. He claimed that he had a side dish in Germany that consisted of a
    >lump of butter, rolled in bread crumbs and batter, and then flash
    >fried. Now I eat a lot of grossly unhealthy stuff, but this takes the
    >cake! Is this for real?

    Well, I do not know this dish, but actually this sounds french to me.

    >Actually, it sounds tasty...He brought back some "kinderfriends."
    >Apparently people really like their hazelnuts! But there was no
    >health information on there :-/
    >
    >3. Apparently some of the toilets he visited have what is referred to
    >as an "inspection ledge" on which one's excrement collects as you do
    >your business. Is this typical?

    Yes and no.

    >4. This is the one I am most dubious of--he rode with some of his
    >friends in cars in various places, and from what he could tell, if
    >there were any rules for driving, nobody actually paid any attention
    >to them. I'm assuming he is exaggerating, but I tend to be a cautious
    >driver, and if I ever went I'd worry about being eaten alive (as I am
    >in major US cities).

    That is actually true and echoes what a friend of mine who visited me
    last year says. We do have a lot of rules for driving, but well, you
    tend to bend pretty all of them while driving.

    Most people drive rather reasonable, if a bit on the fast side, but
    when done right, this isnt a problem.

    >Someday I shall travel to Europe, once I figure out how to not look
    >quite so...um...American.

    Everyone will at once know that you are american.
    You just look like one.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    "Claus Dragon" <claus@ultima-dragons.org> wrote in message
    news:h25j91tthi2fd7romjv8jm8f6dltajbacg@4ax.com...
    > Words to the wise, "Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote:
    >
    >>My brother returned last week from his trip to Germany and France. He
    >>described some of his adventures. He was there for a wedding,
    >>although I can't remember what country it was in.
    >
    >>Anyway, he said a few things that I found to be a little odd in his
    >>stories:
    >
    >>1. He described a German tax law that if you claim to be Catholic or
    >>Protestant, you get an extra tax and it goes to support all the
    >>maintenance of the old churches and cathedrals. This makes sense, I
    >>suppose, I'm sure maintaining all the old stuff in Europe is
    >>outrageously pricey. I think Americans should be glad that the
    >>natives didn't leave too much behind in the huge-monument department.
    >
    > Yes, that is true, "church tax" is in existence, but only as long as
    > you are an official member of the catholic or protestant church.
    > The tax is i think 1% of your income tax, so not really much and once
    > your leave the official religions, you are exempted for it.

    We have that in Sweden too. You're "born into" the church, and if you don't
    take action, you'll be paying that 1.1% or whatever it is. Supposedly it
    lets you get married (and buried) in church, without paying a huge amount.
    Or some such.

    >>2. He claimed that he had a side dish in Germany that consisted of a
    >>lump of butter, rolled in bread crumbs and batter, and then flash
    >>fried. Now I eat a lot of grossly unhealthy stuff, but this takes the
    >>cake! Is this for real?
    >
    > Well, I do not know this dish, but actually this sounds french to me.

    I'm about to throw up...

    >>3. Apparently some of the toilets he visited have what is referred to
    >>as an "inspection ledge" on which one's excrement collects as you do
    >>your business. Is this typical?
    >
    > Yes and no.

    Inspection Ledge?? What the hell?

    >>4. This is the one I am most dubious of--he rode with some of his
    >>friends in cars in various places, and from what he could tell, if
    >>there were any rules for driving, nobody actually paid any attention
    >>to them. I'm assuming he is exaggerating, but I tend to be a cautious
    >>driver, and if I ever went I'd worry about being eaten alive (as I am
    >>in major US cities).
    >
    > That is actually true and echoes what a friend of mine who visited me
    > last year says. We do have a lot of rules for driving, but well, you
    > tend to bend pretty all of them while driving.
    >
    > Most people drive rather reasonable, if a bit on the fast side, but
    > when done right, this isnt a problem.

    Isn't Autobahn in Germany? In my own little world that resides only in my
    head, I see autobahn as "drive as fast as you like, just don't hit
    anything".

    >
    >>Someday I shall travel to Europe, once I figure out how to not look
    >>quite so...um...American.
    >
    > Everyone will at once know that you are american.
    > You just look like one.

    Wear a kimono.


    LVD
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Claus Dragon wrote:

    > Most people drive rather reasonable, if a bit on the fast side, but when
    > done right, this isnt a problem.

    That sounds a lot like Montreal, but of course maybe you Germans take it
    to another extreme.

    I'd like to do a research study on world driving habits, and I'll need a
    few weeks in every major city of the world (capital cities and those with
    large populations > 1mil). Who wants to help fund it?

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:49:01 -0400, Cape Dweller <usenet@ciotog.net>
    wrote:

    >Claus Dragon wrote:
    >
    >> Most people drive rather reasonable, if a bit on the fast side, but when
    >> done right, this isnt a problem.
    >
    >That sounds a lot like Montreal, but of course maybe you Germans take it
    >to another extreme.
    >
    >I'd like to do a research study on world driving habits, and I'll need a
    >few weeks in every major city of the world (capital cities and those with
    >large populations > 1mil). Who wants to help fund it?

    German and English drivers aren't any worse that some parts of the US,
    like Boston, for instance. French and Italian drivers are nuts though.
    Israeli and Greek drivers are probably the worst. Don't know about HK or
    China or Japan though.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Lord Vashnu Dragon" <lordv@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    >> Yes, that is true, "church tax" is in existence, but only as long as
    >> you are an official member of the catholic or protestant church.
    >> The tax is i think 1% of your income tax, so not really much and once
    >> your leave the official religions, you are exempted for it.

    >We have that in Sweden too. You're "born into" the church, and if you don't
    >take action, you'll be paying that 1.1% or whatever it is. Supposedly it
    >lets you get married (and buried) in church, without paying a huge amount.
    >Or some such.

    Oh, you have that as well? Weird, I thought only Italy, Germany and
    Spain had that. The Separation between church and state isnt so clear
    then in Sweden as well.

    >>>4. This is the one I am most dubious of--he rode with some of his
    >>>friends in cars in various places, and from what he could tell, if
    >>>there were any rules for driving, nobody actually paid any attention
    >>>to them. I'm assuming he is exaggerating, but I tend to be a cautious
    >>>driver, and if I ever went I'd worry about being eaten alive (as I am
    >>>in major US cities).
    >>
    >> That is actually true and echoes what a friend of mine who visited me
    >> last year says. We do have a lot of rules for driving, but well, you
    >> tend to bend pretty all of them while driving.
    >>
    >> Most people drive rather reasonable, if a bit on the fast side, but
    >> when done right, this isnt a problem.
    >
    >Isn't Autobahn in Germany? In my own little world that resides only in my
    >head, I see autobahn as "drive as fast as you like, just don't hit
    >anything".

    Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140
    and 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty. Also, its no
    problem for three-lane motorways (3 in each direction). That isnt
    really fast , I think, though I normally drive on the low side (120 -
    140), but that depends, if I have another car, I might go 160 or 170,
    but not really faster. Again, very depending on the traffic.

    >>>Someday I shall travel to Europe, once I figure out how to not look
    >>>quite so...um...American.
    >>
    >> Everyone will at once know that you are american.
    >> You just look like one.
    >
    >Wear a kimono.

    Then he looks like an american wearing a kimono.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Eek! Zac Bond wrote:
    <snip>
    > 2. He claimed that he had a side dish in Germany that consisted of a
    > lump of butter, rolled in bread crumbs and batter, and then flash
    > fried. Now I eat a lot of grossly unhealthy stuff, but this takes the
    > cake! Is this for real?

    Well..., haven't you eaten a mozerella cheese stick before??? It's about
    the same thing, and it's a common appetizer in some restaurants. There are
    variation of it, like they add jalapeno pepper to it and fried in batters.

    <snip>
    > 3. Apparently some of the toilets he visited have what is referred to
    > as an "inspection ledge" on which one's excrement collects as you do
    > your business. Is this typical?

    Let me tell you my experience in France..., the public toilets in Metro
    collects tolls and it never gets cleaned. You can still see poops in the
    toilet and some restrooms are flooded.

    > 4. This is the one I am most dubious of--he rode with some of his
    > friends in cars in various places, and from what he could tell, if
    > there were any rules for driving, nobody actually paid any attention
    > to them. I'm assuming he is exaggerating, but I tend to be a cautious
    > driver, and if I ever went I'd worry about being eaten alive (as I am
    > in major US cities).

    That's true in Taipei as well. But people here in California actually pay
    attention to rules. They might be speeding, yes, but people generally
    drive cautiously (except some kids who just got their license or those ones
    who mod their cars like eww...). And people do stop at four-way stops.
    Imagine the chaos it would be if people don't do four-way stops and yield
    when traffic lights are broken or power outage happens (which happened
    often when PG&E just went bankrupt).

    > Someday I shall travel to Europe, once I figure out how to not look
    > quite so...um...American. I guess I will have to learn how to use a
    > bidet, too, eh? Blech.

    Just remember to bring ass protectors with you.

    --
    Ashikaga a27
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net> wrote:


    >German and English drivers aren't any worse that some parts of the US,
    >like Boston, for instance. French and Italian drivers are nuts though.
    >Israeli and Greek drivers are probably the worst. Don't know about HK or
    >China or Japan though.

    Every tried crossing a zebra crossing in either France or Italy? Cars
    accelerate instead of stopping.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    ....
    > Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140
    > and 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty.

    I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    /kilometres/ per hour. :)
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
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    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>:
    ....
    > German and English drivers aren't any worse that some parts of the US,
    > like Boston, for instance.

    More stringent driving test here, for starters. :P

    > French and Italian drivers are nuts though. Israeli and Greek drivers are
    > probably the worst.

    True enough, except for Arab countries. Rules of the road generally
    mean nothing there, either.

    > Don't know about HK or China or Japan though.

    Hong Kong driving, from what I saw of it, isn't too bad. Haven't yet
    been to mainland China or Japan to comment.
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
    \ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
    \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Samurai wrote:
    > Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    > ...
    >
    >>Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140
    >>and 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty.
    >
    >
    > I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    > /kilometres/ per hour. :)

    So, it's still between 80ish and 105mph, then?
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:10:01 -0400, Helgraf Dragon
    <helgraf@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:

    >Samurai wrote:
    >> Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    >> ...
    >>
    >>>Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140
    >>>and 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty.
    >>
    >>
    >> I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    >> /kilometres/ per hour. :)
    >
    >So, it's still between 80ish and 105mph, then?

    Pffft. That's only 3rd gear. See, this is why you don't buy an all
    stainless car from a cokehead.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Cape Dweller swings about and
    addresses the awaiting newsgroup...

    > I'd like to do a research study on world driving habits, and I'll need a
    > few weeks in every major city of the world (capital cities and those with
    > large populations > 1mil). Who wants to help fund it?

    I suggest NZ for a start. You won't survive our roads, so the trip will be
    pretty cheap.


    --
    Paulon Dragon d++ e++ N T+ Om+ UK!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!'!S!'!8!9!A!L!M!W!
    -==(UDIC)==- u++ uC++ uF uG+ uLB- uA+ nC+ nR nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++ nT+ y
    The Other Codex http://www.ultimainfo.net/Codex/

    Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
    Ultima VII endgame.exe file
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:23:56 -0500, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:10:01 -0400, Helgraf Dragon
    ><helgraf@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
    >
    >>Samurai wrote:
    >>> Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>>Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140
    >>>>and 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    >>> /kilometres/ per hour. :)
    >>
    >>So, it's still between 80ish and 105mph, then?
    >
    >Pffft. That's only 3rd gear. See, this is why you don't buy an all
    >stainless car from a cokehead.
    You know what those two white stripes down the middle of the highway
    mean?
    DeLorean's glove box has a leak!
    <rimshot>
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
    -Alfred E. Neumann
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Claus Dragon schrieb:

    ....
    > Yes, that is true, "church tax" is in existence, but only as long as
    > you are an official member of the catholic or protestant church.
    > The tax is i think 1% of your income tax, so not really much and once
    > your leave the official religions, you are exempted for it.

    1% would be excellent. The "Kirchensteuer" has been 9% of my income
    taxes for me before I cancelled my church membership. Perhaps you meant
    1% of your income? ;-)
    bye
    Michael
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Michael Romes <NetterNachbar6@lycos.de> wrote:

    >> Yes, that is true, "church tax" is in existence, but only as long as
    >> you are an official member of the catholic or protestant church.
    >> The tax is i think 1% of your income tax, so not really much and once
    >> your leave the official religions, you are exempted for it.
    >
    >1% would be excellent. The "Kirchensteuer" has been 9% of my income
    >taxes for me before I cancelled my church membership. Perhaps you meant
    >1% of your income? ;-)

    Oh, is it 9% of income tax? Well, I never bothered to check how much
    it actually is. But still, my fault. Thanks for correcting me :)
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Helgraf Dragon <helgraf@ultima-dragons.org>:
    > Samurai wrote:
    ....
    > > I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    > > /kilometres/ per hour. :)
    >
    > So, it's still between 80ish and 105mph, then?

    88mph (Flux Capacitor fluxing!) and 106mph, in fact. If that's really
    as fast as people go on the derestricted autobahn sections, they're
    missing opportunities. :)
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
    \ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
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    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Samurai wrote:
    > Quoth Helgraf Dragon <helgraf@ultima-dragons.org>:
    >
    >>Samurai wrote:
    >
    > ...
    >
    >>>I'd just like to remind our American readers, those figures are
    >>>/kilometres/ per hour. :)
    >>
    >>So, it's still between 80ish and 105mph, then?
    >
    >
    > 88mph (Flux Capacitor fluxing!) and 106mph, in fact. If that's really
    > as fast as people go on the derestricted autobahn sections, they're
    > missing opportunities. :)

    Well, there is to be said that he said generally. I can pretty much
    guarantee there is the occasional motorist who goes much faster on those
    sections.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Zac Bond wrote:

    > My trip through New Jersey was bad too--I would get off the interstate
    > to go use the bathroom or get gas, and discover there was no way to
    > get back on! Yeesh.
    >
    > -Ophidian

    There's always a way back onto the Interstate. You just have to keep
    your eyes peeled for the tiny roadsigns, sometimes.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Claus Dragon wrote:

    > Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140 and
    > 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty. Also, its no problem for
    > three-lane motorways (3 in each direction).

    I don't think that the average driver is very good here, because our 3
    lane highways are clogged with the slowest people going in the center
    lane, and lots of people don't seem to know that to merge safely you have
    to reach the speed of the traffic you're merging with.

    We had a German exchange student stay with us once and she got her drivers
    licence here because it was much easier.

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Paulon wrote:

    >> I'd like to do a research study on world driving habits, and I'll need a
    >> few weeks in every major city of the world (capital cities and those
    >> with large populations > 1mil). Who wants to help fund it?
    >
    > I suggest NZ for a start. You won't survive our roads, so the trip will be
    > pretty cheap.

    Ok, so Paulon is going to pay for the New Zealand part of the study.
    Who else is in?

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Polychromic wrote:

    > German and English drivers aren't any worse that some parts of the US,
    > like Boston, for instance. French and Italian drivers are nuts though.
    > Israeli and Greek drivers are probably the worst. Don't know about HK or
    > China or Japan though.

    If you like I can start the study on the Pacific Rim.

    First class tickets, please.

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Zac Bond wrote:

    > My brother also complained that some of the
    > private homes he stayed in had bathrooms without sinks; he had to go
    > elsewhere to wash his hands afterwards.

    That's just good economics. Why have a separate sink when there's a bowl
    full of water already there?

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 02:20:56 -0400, Cape Dweller <usenet@ciotog.net>
    wrote:

    >Zac Bond wrote:
    >
    >> My brother also complained that some of the
    >> private homes he stayed in had bathrooms without sinks; he had to go
    >> elsewhere to wash his hands afterwards.
    >
    >That's just good economics. Why have a separate sink when there's a bowl
    >full of water already there?

    Now you see why it is bad manners to shake hands in some places around the
    Mediterranean.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    <snip>

    Don't go to France anyway. We just proved ourselves to be
    a big bunch of idiots.

    How about going to Europe instead ?

    -Moa Dragon


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  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 08:04:08 +0200, "Mils Michael"
    <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    ><snip>
    >
    >Don't go to France anyway. We just proved ourselves to be
    >a big bunch of idiots.

    Join the crowd- we re-elected Shrub.

    >How about going to Europe instead ?
    >
    >-Moa Dragon

    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
    -Alfred E. Neumann
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Mils Michael <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    > Don't go to France anyway. We just proved ourselves to be
    > a big bunch of idiots.

    Well, we'd have done the same if we'd voted first. Probably by a
    rather larger majority, too.

    > How about going to Europe instead ?

    Satire! :)
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
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    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    ><snip>
    >
    >Don't go to France anyway. We just proved ourselves to be
    >a big bunch of idiots.
    >
    >How about going to Europe instead ?

    Well, actually I can pretty much understand the sentiment, though
    probably for different reasons. That constitution has a passage which
    goes like "War is not exluded as last resort" (or close to that). I
    certainly would have voted against it as well, just because of this
    paragraph.

    I do not want to live in a Europe which accepts war as means to an
    end.
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Claus Dragon swings about and
    addresses the awaiting newsgroup...

    > Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >>How about going to Europe instead ?
    >
    > Well, actually I can pretty much understand the sentiment, though
    > probably for different reasons. That constitution has a passage which
    > goes like "War is not exluded as last resort" (or close to that). I
    > certainly would have voted against it as well, just because of this
    > paragraph.
    >
    > I do not want to live in a Europe which accepts war as means to an
    > end.

    I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the 10th
    anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    friendly country and got caught at it.

    --
    Paulon Dragon d++ e++ N T+ Om+ UK!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!'!S!'!8!9!A!L!M!W!
    -==(UDIC)==- u++ uC++ uF uG+ uLB- uA+ nC+ nR nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++ nT+ y
    The Other Codex http://www.ultimainfo.net/Codex/

    Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
    Ultima VII endgame.exe file
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    "Claus Dragon" <claus@ultima-dragons.org> wrote in message
    news:qf7n911u7cvg4oq6ve2pmegnif8eoue2ui@4ax.com...

    > Well, actually I can pretty much understand the sentiment, though
    > probably for different reasons. That constitution has a passage
    > which
    > goes like "War is not exluded as last resort" (or close to that). I
    > certainly would have voted against it as well, just because of this
    > paragraph.
    >
    > I do not want to live in a Europe which accepts war as means to an
    > end.

    I would not want to live in a Europe which (yet again) allows its
    enemies to grow stronger and threaten with no fear of repercussion.

    ....Which is a reason I don't :-P

    -Ophidian
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Helgraf Dragon <helgraf@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:

    >> 88mph (Flux Capacitor fluxing!) and 106mph, in fact. If that's really
    >> as fast as people go on the derestricted autobahn sections, they're
    >> missing opportunities. :)
    >
    >Well, there is to be said that he said generally. I can pretty much
    >guarantee there is the occasional motorist who goes much faster on those
    >sections.

    Not the occasional one :)
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Cape Dweller <usenet@ciotog.net> wrote:

    >Claus Dragon wrote:
    >
    >> Well, Autobahn is in Germany, yes. But most people drive between 140 and
    >> 170, which is okay if the road is rather empty. Also, its no problem for
    >> three-lane motorways (3 in each direction).
    >
    >I don't think that the average driver is very good here, because our 3
    >lane highways are clogged with the slowest people going in the center
    >lane, and lots of people don't seem to know that to merge safely you have
    >to reach the speed of the traffic you're merging with.
    >
    >We had a German exchange student stay with us once and she got her drivers
    >licence here because it was much easier.

    Not sure whether this license is actually valid over here. I know
    american ones are by now (though I really wonder).
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote:

    >> I do not want to live in a Europe which accepts war as means to an
    >> end.

    >I would not want to live in a Europe which (yet again) allows its
    >enemies to grow stronger and threaten with no fear of repercussion.

    What are Europes enemies then?

    >...Which is a reason I don't :-P

    You dont know what you are missing ;)
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Every tried crossing a zebra crossing in either France or Italy? Cars
    > accelerate instead of stopping.

    I have to say it depends the part of France you're in. I live in the north
    and people drive PERFECTLY.

    On the south side, however, oh my... I don't know if it's the sun
    or the pastis, but gee, I've seen a lot of things I couldn't even
    describe....

    -Moa Dragon, french driver (Body Count : 0)


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  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> Every tried crossing a zebra crossing in either France or Italy? Cars
    >> accelerate instead of stopping.
    >
    >I have to say it depends the part of France you're in. I live in the north
    >and people drive PERFECTLY.
    >
    >On the south side, however, oh my... I don't know if it's the sun
    >or the pastis, but gee, I've seen a lot of things I couldn't even
    >describe....
    >
    >-Moa Dragon, french driver (Body Count : 0)

    I was talking about the south, (having been to both parts) but I
    forgot to specify. My bad.

    Must be the mediterranean sea, though.
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Eek! Mils Michael wrote:
    >> Every tried crossing a zebra crossing in either France or Italy? Cars
    >> accelerate instead of stopping.
    >
    > I have to say it depends the part of France you're in. I live in the north
    > and people drive PERFECTLY.

    That I can testify. Maybe not PERFECTLY, but it's okay. Very crowded with
    cars, yes, much like Taipei, but at least sometimes drivers will make an
    attempt to stop when a pedestrian cross the road.

    --
    Ashikaga a27
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Claus Dragon wrote:

    >>We had a German exchange student stay with us once and she got her
    >>drivers licence here because it was much easier.
    >
    > Not sure whether this license is actually valid over here. I know american
    > ones are by now (though I really wonder).

    I believe she made sure to get an international licence (assuming those
    exist), or used the Canadian licence to get a German licence with easier
    requirements (only a written test or something).

    --
    Cape Dweller Dragon
    Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the
    10th
    > anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    > friendly country and got caught at it.

    What the hell are you talking about ?

    -Moa Dragon


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  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the
    >10th
    >> anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    >> friendly country and got caught at it.
    >
    >What the hell are you talking about ?

    Atomic bomb test.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Mils Michael swings about and
    addresses the awaiting newsgroup...

    >> I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the
    > 10th
    >> anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    >> friendly country and got caught at it.
    >
    > What the hell are you talking about ?

    Rainbow Warrior. French agents blew up the Greenpeace vessel in Auckland
    harbour, murdering one of the crew. They caught two of the agents, who were
    definitely working on the orders of the French government, tried and
    convicted them.

    To prevent trade sanctions, they were, IMO foolishly, given to France to
    serve their sentences, which were supposed to be 10 years. It was less than
    3 before they were released.

    A few years back Interpol picked up another of them, but our government at
    the time was too much a bunch of scumbags to push the point and extradite
    him.

    --
    Paulon Dragon d++ e++ N T+ Om+ UK!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!'!S!'!8!9!A!L!M!W!
    -==(UDIC)==- u++ uC++ uF uG+ uLB- uA+ nC+ nR nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++ nT+ y
    The Other Codex http://www.ultimainfo.net/Codex/

    Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
    Ultima VII endgame.exe file
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 19:25:12 +0200, Claus Dragon
    <claus@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:

    >Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>> I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the
    >>10th
    >>> anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    >>> friendly country and got caught at it.
    >>
    >>What the hell are you talking about ?
    >
    >Atomic bomb test.
    I thought that was about 16 years ago. They're trying to somehow work
    that possibility into the web that is the show "Lost". At least that's
    what some wags are saying, nothing official though.
    Rousseau has been on the island 16 years with her "team"
    They think the catch-all of 50's sci-fi "radiation" may be the cause
    of some of the weirdnes.
    And those guys the "others" that snatched Walt may be in for more than
    they bargained for, because it seems Walt has the ability to conjure
    up giant polar bears, at least.
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
    -Alfred E. Neumann
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    > Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
    ....
    > >What the hell are you talking about ?
    >
    > Atomic bomb test.

    No. I rather think Paulon was talking about the attack on the
    Greenpeace ship, Rainbow Warrior, which was demonstrably blown up by
    French secret service operatives, because the French government didn't
    want its (rather questionable) activities in the Pacific disrupted.
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
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    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Optician Dragon <DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:

    >>>What the hell are you talking about ?
    >>
    >>Atomic bomb test.
    >I thought that was about 16 years ago.

    No, those were in .. 1995 or 1996 or around that time. I very clearly
    remember them for there was a lot of anti-France sentiment going
    around at that time.
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Samurai <Samurai@dev.nul> wrote:

    >> >What the hell are you talking about ?
    >>
    >> Atomic bomb test.
    >
    >No. I rather think Paulon was talking about the attack on the
    >Greenpeace ship, Rainbow Warrior, which was demonstrably blown up by
    >French secret service operatives, because the French government didn't
    >want its (rather questionable) activities in the Pacific disrupted.

    Right, I had forgotten about that. But that ship was there due to the
    bomb tests, wasnt it? So, at least I got something right? :)
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > No. I rather think Paulon was talking about the attack on the
    > Greenpeace ship, Rainbow Warrior, which was demonstrably blown up by
    > French secret service operatives, because the French government didn't
    > want its (rather questionable) activities in the Pacific disrupted.

    The Rainbow Warrior was around 20 years ago, and our current president
    had very special methods about that.

    I was a lil' baby ! I didn't vote for him!

    -Moa Dragon


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  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
    ....
    > >the Greenpeace ship, Rainbow Warrior, which was demonstrably blown up by
    > >French secret service operatives, because the French government didn't
    > >want its (rather questionable) activities in the Pacific disrupted.
    >
    > Right, I had forgotten about that. But that ship was there due to the
    > bomb tests, wasnt it?

    Those were the questionable activities to which I referred, yes.

    > So, at least I got something right? :)

    All right, all right, you can have some points for the scoreboard. :)
    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
    \ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
    \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 00:05:37 +0200, Claus Dragon
    <claus@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:

    >Words to the wise, Optician Dragon <DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >>>>What the hell are you talking about ?
    >>>
    >>>Atomic bomb test.
    >>I thought that was about 16 years ago.
    >
    >No, those were in .. 1995 or 1996 or around that time. I very clearly
    >remember them for there was a lot of anti-France sentiment going
    >around at that time.
    Yeah, I checked up on them. Most of them had stopped by 1990 , which
    does fit the timeline, but then they decided to do some more,
    including the one that I think gets most people mad where the bomb got
    stuck halfway down the shaft and wasn't deep enough but they fired it
    off anyway.
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
    -Alfred E. Neumann
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, Samurai <Samurai@dev.nul> wrote:

    >> Right, I had forgotten about that. But that ship was there due to the
    >> bomb tests, wasnt it?
    >
    >Those were the questionable activities to which I referred, yes.
    >
    >> So, at least I got something right? :)
    >
    >All right, all right, you can have some points for the scoreboard. :)

    Sorry about that, but sometimes I feel as if my mind/memory was slowly
    falling apart. Either too much input or not enough.
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    >> Well, actually I can pretty much understand the sentiment, though
    >> probably for different reasons. That constitution has a passage which
    >> goes like "War is not exluded as last resort" (or close to that). I
    >> certainly would have voted against it as well, just because of this
    >> paragraph.

    Ultra Pacifism is what led to WW2, I see nothing wrong in that paragraph.

    -Moa Dragon


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  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    >>> I dunno why that would bother at least some French too much. It's the
    >>10th
    >>> anniversary of when their government committed acts of terrorism in a
    >>> friendly country and got caught at it.
    >>
    >>What the hell are you talking about ?
    >
    > Atomic bomb test.

    There was nothing secret in that, heck, it was even an electoral
    promise. Not that I approve with it, but you can't say we "got
    caught" doing that.

    -Moa Dragon


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