Original Ultima IV

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Anyone have or know of where to get a D64 or G64 of the original uncracked
version of Ultima IV - Quest of the Avatar?

Thanks.
61 answers Last reply
More about original ultima
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    What's a G64?

    "Steven W. Dalton" <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:G0_ue.4444$2S.556@fe03.lga...
    > Anyone have or know of where to get a D64 or G64 of the original uncracked
    > version of Ultima IV - Quest of the Avatar?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    >
    >
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    A G64 is a low-level GCR-encoded 1541 disk image file.


    "Lord Vashnu Dragon" <lordv@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:pX_ue.27192$X57.711510@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > What's a G64?
    >
    > "Steven W. Dalton" <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:G0_ue.4444$2S.556@fe03.lga...
    >> Anyone have or know of where to get a D64 or G64 of the original
    >> uncracked
    >> version of Ultima IV - Quest of the Avatar?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:02:05 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >A G64 is a low-level GCR-encoded 1541 disk image file.

    So you're asking *here* for pirated warez.

    You do know that there is only one free version of Ultima IV and this is
    the PC version that Origin granted UDIC members the right to redistribute,
    right?

    I suggest going to Ebay and actually *paying* for Ultima IV. It does come
    with a cool box and several nice manuals. It's my favorite boxed version
    in fact, although I like Ultima VII's game better.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    >>A G64 is a low-level GCR-encoded 1541 disk image file.
    >
    > So you're asking *here* for pirated warez.

    <sarcasm>
    Oh my god ! The shame ! Warezing a 15 years old game !
    </sarcasm>

    You do know that the preservation of oldies and things like
    that owe a lot to "Pirated Warez" as you call it, right ?
    Hence the fact he's asking for an uncracked version which are
    surprisingly hard to find as image files nowadays.

    -Moa Dragon


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  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:43:58 +0200, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >>>A G64 is a low-level GCR-encoded 1541 disk image file.
    >>
    >> So you're asking *here* for pirated warez.
    >
    ><sarcasm>
    >Oh my god ! The shame ! Warezing a 15 years old game !
    ></sarcasm>
    >
    >You do know that the preservation of oldies and things like
    >that owe a lot to "Pirated Warez" as you call it, right ?
    >Hence the fact he's asking for an uncracked version which are
    >surprisingly hard to find as image files nowadays.

    *looks at box with original disks on the shelf*

    Explain to me how a pirate trading warez somehow magically preserves my
    boxed copy?

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    ....
    > <sarcasm>
    > Oh my god ! The shame ! Warezing a 15 years old game !
    > </sarcasm>

    Doesn't change the fact it's illegal. Read the FAQ. :)

    --

    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
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  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Doesn't change the fact it's illegal. Read the FAQ. :)

    A lot of things are illegal to the point it becomes dumb.

    -Moa Dragon


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  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Explain to me how a pirate trading warez somehow magically preserves my
    > boxed copy?

    The same way MAME romsets preserved a lot of games.

    -Moa Dragon


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  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:09:00 +0200, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >> Explain to me how a pirate trading warez somehow magically preserves my
    >> boxed copy?
    >
    >The same way MAME romsets preserved a lot of games.

    Don't have an answer, eh? Let me guess, you hated the Ultimas where
    virtues were something to strive for as a goal.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    I am sorry, I didn't know that getting a working backup copy of a
    game that is NOT sold commercially in ANY legitimate business is illegal.
    I'm sorry if I may seem just a little peeved, but you seem to lack the
    VIRTUE of compassion let alone the decency to be polite to someone that may
    not know the FAQ. It's been a while since I was on the newsgroup, being a
    fellow Dragon... It seems that at least some Dragons now do not treat
    people as they would like to be treated.

    Now, Seeing how I *HAVE* a boxed Commodore copy that has gone bad
    and do NOT want CRACKED material, and seeing how paying someone on ebay,
    instead of Origin that is as far as I know, dead, has anything to do with
    not being a pirate... When one only wants to retrieve what they've already
    had but lost and still has legal rights to.

    So, next time, please do not jump to the conclusion that someone is
    a pirate and be more compassionate. Remember the virtues you tend to bring
    up.

    Me. :-)

    "Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:jpvqb1lmchssvrvqcbdt0ptc2aqj47os4v@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:09:00 +0200, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> Explain to me how a pirate trading warez somehow magically preserves my
    >>> boxed copy?
    >>
    >>The same way MAME romsets preserved a lot of games.
    >
    > Don't have an answer, eh? Let me guess, you hated the Ultimas where
    > virtues were something to strive for as a goal.
    >
    > --
    > The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    > http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    > http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    > RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:39:09 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > I am sorry, I didn't know that getting a working backup copy of a
    >game that is NOT sold commercially in ANY legitimate business is illegal.

    It is illegal, however. Just because something isn't for sale, doesn't
    magically make it free to copy.

    >I'm sorry if I may seem just a little peeved, but you seem to lack the
    >VIRTUE of compassion let alone the decency to be polite to someone that may
    >not know the FAQ. It's been a while since I was on the newsgroup, being a
    >fellow Dragon... It seems that at least some Dragons now do not treat
    >people as they would like to be treated.

    I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the slap
    down I so rightly deserve. There is a difference between being
    compassionate to those down on their luck and encouraging piracy of the
    games we formed this newsgroup to celebrate.

    > Now, Seeing how I *HAVE* a boxed Commodore copy that has gone bad
    >and do NOT want CRACKED material, and seeing how paying someone on ebay,
    >instead of Origin that is as far as I know, dead, has anything to do with
    >not being a pirate... When one only wants to retrieve what they've already
    >had but lost and still has legal rights to.

    Unfortunately, you are only allowed to make backups of your copy.
    Downloading a copy from someone else is illegal, even if you did/do own a
    copy. Just because you didn't make a backup doesn't give you the right to
    pirate the software.

    > So, next time, please do not jump to the conclusion that someone is
    >a pirate and be more compassionate. Remember the virtues you tend to bring
    >up.

    I do. How about you not pirating software?

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    'I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the slap
    down I so rightly deserve.'

    Maybe someone should slap you down for encouraging the hex editing of
    software that has a licensing agreement that you must agree to before you
    use the software, telling you that it's not supposed to be disassembled or
    changed in any form.

    'Disable Windows File Protection for XP with SP1'

    "Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1u3rb19o479g0kqu0q8p3j3aegqbosapng@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:39:09 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    > <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I am sorry, I didn't know that getting a working backup copy of a
    >>game that is NOT sold commercially in ANY legitimate business is illegal.
    >
    > It is illegal, however. Just because something isn't for sale, doesn't
    > magically make it free to copy.
    >
    >>I'm sorry if I may seem just a little peeved, but you seem to lack the
    >>VIRTUE of compassion let alone the decency to be polite to someone that
    >>may
    >>not know the FAQ. It's been a while since I was on the newsgroup, being a
    >>fellow Dragon... It seems that at least some Dragons now do not treat
    >>people as they would like to be treated.
    >
    > I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the slap
    > down I so rightly deserve. There is a difference between being
    > compassionate to those down on their luck and encouraging piracy of the
    > games we formed this newsgroup to celebrate.
    >
    >> Now, Seeing how I *HAVE* a boxed Commodore copy that has gone bad
    >>and do NOT want CRACKED material, and seeing how paying someone on ebay,
    >>instead of Origin that is as far as I know, dead, has anything to do with
    >>not being a pirate... When one only wants to retrieve what they've
    >>already
    >>had but lost and still has legal rights to.
    >
    > Unfortunately, you are only allowed to make backups of your copy.
    > Downloading a copy from someone else is illegal, even if you did/do own a
    > copy. Just because you didn't make a backup doesn't give you the right to
    > pirate the software.
    >
    >> So, next time, please do not jump to the conclusion that someone
    >> is
    >>a pirate and be more compassionate. Remember the virtues you tend to
    >>bring
    >>up.
    >
    > I do. How about you not pirating software?
    >
    > --
    > The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    > http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    > http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    > RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    'There is a difference between being
    compassionate to those down on their luck and encouraging piracy of the
    games we formed this newsgroup to celebrate.'

    Oh yes, celebration, is this the celebration?...

    Rumor has it that someone on the senate appropriations committee is going
    to try and sneak an amendment in to make the broadcast flag (DRM in
    digital television broadcasts) law this week.

    The EFF has an action alert where - if you are from Alabama, Alaska,
    California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho,
    Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland,
    Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New
    Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Philadelphia, South Dakota,
    Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, or
    Wisconsin - you can contact your senator on the committee, and tell them
    to stop the amendment.

    I think not.

    :-)

    "Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1u3rb19o479g0kqu0q8p3j3aegqbosapng@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:39:09 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    > <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I am sorry, I didn't know that getting a working backup copy of a
    >>game that is NOT sold commercially in ANY legitimate business is illegal.
    >
    > It is illegal, however. Just because something isn't for sale, doesn't
    > magically make it free to copy.
    >
    >>I'm sorry if I may seem just a little peeved, but you seem to lack the
    >>VIRTUE of compassion let alone the decency to be polite to someone that
    >>may
    >>not know the FAQ. It's been a while since I was on the newsgroup, being a
    >>fellow Dragon... It seems that at least some Dragons now do not treat
    >>people as they would like to be treated.
    >
    > I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the slap
    > down I so rightly deserve. There is a difference between being
    > compassionate to those down on their luck and encouraging piracy of the
    > games we formed this newsgroup to celebrate.
    >
    >> Now, Seeing how I *HAVE* a boxed Commodore copy that has gone bad
    >>and do NOT want CRACKED material, and seeing how paying someone on ebay,
    >>instead of Origin that is as far as I know, dead, has anything to do with
    >>not being a pirate... When one only wants to retrieve what they've
    >>already
    >>had but lost and still has legal rights to.
    >
    > Unfortunately, you are only allowed to make backups of your copy.
    > Downloading a copy from someone else is illegal, even if you did/do own a
    > copy. Just because you didn't make a backup doesn't give you the right to
    > pirate the software.
    >
    >> So, next time, please do not jump to the conclusion that someone
    >> is
    >>a pirate and be more compassionate. Remember the virtues you tend to
    >>bring
    >>up.
    >
    > I do. How about you not pirating software?
    >
    > --
    > The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    > http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    > http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    > RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:05:15 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >'I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the slap
    >down I so rightly deserve.'
    >
    >Maybe someone should slap you down for encouraging the hex editing of
    >software that has a licensing agreement that you must agree to before you
    >use the software, telling you that it's not supposed to be disassembled or
    >changed in any form.
    >
    >'Disable Windows File Protection for XP with SP1'

    Fortunately, that isn't against the law. EULAs are "agreements" not laws
    or even contracts. They don't hold up in court and the big companies
    won't press the issue for fear of the general public finding out that they
    aren't big scary laws.

    Also, you'll need a purchased copy of XP to do that. This isn't a trick
    to bypass Windows activation. It merely disables the system file check.
    You're probably quite familiar with that - it keeps utter morons from
    screwing up their DLL (and other file) version. Better keep yours
    enabled.

    So let's recap: illegal? No. Advocating illegal activity: No.

    Hmmm, that's not comparing apples to apples, it's not comparing apples to
    oranges, that's not even comparing apples to barnacles. You'd best learn
    to think, at least a wee bit, before trying to rationalize your piracy.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    an answer, eh?

    You didn't seem to have a question either.

    > Let me guess, you hated the Ultimas where
    > virtues were something to strive for as a goal.

    I'm sorry. I thought they were just games.

    -Moa Dragon
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > I hope when I stoop to stealing software that people will give me the
    slap
    > down I so rightly deserve.

    That's deep.

    Really.

    -Moa Dragon


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  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth "Steven W. Dalton" <ranthalion75@hotmail.com>:

    > I am sorry, I didn't know that getting a working backup
    > copy of a game that is NOT sold commercially in ANY legitimate
    > business is illegal.

    As has already been pointed out, downloading from warez sites doesn't
    constitute a legitimate backup under most countries' intellectual
    property laws. You can argue the morality of that back and forth,
    but that doesn't change the legal position.

    > I'm sorry if I may seem just a little peeved, but you
    > seem to lack the VIRTUE of compassion let alone the decency to be
    > polite to someone that may not know the FAQ.

    To be fair, my comment about the FAQ was directed at Moa -- I didn't
    directly respond to your original post at all.

    As it happens, though, the FAQ isn't entirely unsympathetic to
    emulation, and makes a few suggestions about it. I posted it a
    couple of days ago, so it should still be on your server, and there's
    always Google Groups if not.

    http://groups-
    beta.google.com/group/rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons/browse_thread
    /thread/bc0f6fc6c4ec0f6c/91b6e1fe23474481?
    q=faq+group:rec.games.computer.ultima*&rnum=3&hl=en#91b6e1fe23474481

    Section 4.9 is what you want.

    > It's been a while since I was on the newsgroup, being a fellow
    > Dragon... It seems that at least some Dragons now do not treat
    > people as they would like to be treated.

    Sorry you feel that way, but I feel that to some extent, you brought
    it on yourself. Your original post, I'd remind you, was this:

    "Anyone have or know of where to get a D64 or G64 of the original
    uncracked version of Ultima IV - Quest of the Avatar?
    Thanks."

    If you'd spent some time to explain the circumstances around that
    request, you might not have gotten such curt responses. But while I
    accept there was a certain amount of conclusion-jumping about your
    motivations, I'd suggest that wasn't unreasonable, given your lack of
    background information and how common requests for warez are on
    Usenet. More information is good. :)

    > Remember the virtues you tend to bring up.

    Not all of us are Wayfarers, in fact.

    --

    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
    \ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
    \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > To be fair, my comment about the FAQ was directed at Moa -- I didn't
    > directly respond to your original post at all.
    >
    I'm sorry Samuri. My outburst wasn't aimed at you either. It's
    just that being jumped and accused of being a pirate when all I did was ask
    about an image that I could transfer back to Commie format and consistantly
    being accused and harrassed after my explaination was given, is the same
    type of reason every fan base ends up dying out. Too many angst filled,
    arrogant people too willing to lash out at something they don't understand
    and not taking the time to find out what or whom they're shooting at.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Hmmm, that's not comparing apples to apples, it's not comparing apples
    to
    > oranges, that's not even comparing apples to barnacles. You'd best
    learn
    > to think, at least a wee bit, before trying to rationalize your piracy.

    Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational, like
    in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC version
    is public domain.

    That's another kind of extremism I don't like.

    -Moa Dragon


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  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    ....
    > Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational,
    > like in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC
    > version is public domain.

    Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.

    --
    ___________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
    | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
    \ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
    \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
    ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On 25 Jun 2005 23:13:15 GMT, Samurai <nospam@dev.nul> wrote:

    >Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    >...
    >> Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational,
    >> like in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC
    >> version is public domain.
    >
    >Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    >issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.

    Also, remember that we got that distribution right by vehemently defending
    Ultima against piracy.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    "Samurai" <nospam@dev.nul> wrote in message
    news:42bde50b$0$2404$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
    > Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    > ...
    >> Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational,
    >> like in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC
    >> version is public domain.
    >
    > Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    > issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.

    I'm not trying to be rude, because you were polite and courteous to me.
    But then why was it included on a CD with my PCGamer subscription?
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:13:58 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Samurai" <nospam@dev.nul> wrote in message
    >news:42bde50b$0$2404$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
    >> Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    >> ...
    >>> Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational,
    >>> like in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC
    >>> version is public domain.
    >>
    >> Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    >> issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.
    >
    >I'm not trying to be rude, because you were polite and courteous to me.
    >But then why was it included on a CD with my PCGamer subscription?

    That may have been a special promotion like the one CGW got permission to
    do in 1997. First time I've heard about it though. It could be another
    KickAssGames situation.

    For those who don't remember,

    Origin gave CGW permission to distribute U4 on their Oct 97 CD as a
    one-time promotion. Whisper Dragon and KickAssGames took this, wrongly,
    to mean anyone could distribute it and put it on their sites. The Dragons
    protested and eventually complained to Origin (Mike "Boomer" McCoy
    specifically). They went after the sites and got U4 removed but as a
    thank you to the Dragons, they gave us permission to distribute that same
    PC version of U4.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    "Steven W. Dalton" <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > 'There is a difference between being
    > compassionate to those down on their luck and encouraging piracy of the
    > games we formed this newsgroup to celebrate.'
    >
    > Oh yes, celebration, is this the celebration?...

    [snip unrelated post]

    > I think not.

    Well, it's been what.. 6 years since U9 was released? There's not a whole
    lot of new things to celebrate, but, refer you to TNET and Ultimate
    Jeopardy Phase Six (just a couple months ago). Also, with 'Phid replaying
    the Ultima games, there's been a bit more Ultima content than usual (I never
    would have known about Pentagram had it not been for some recent posts).

    I don't really have a point. But neither do you.

    --
    zhentil
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    > issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.

    A play on words, considering any Joe Schmoe can fill the form
    and no legal action will be attended against it. It's more like
    a marketing scheme to score with the fanbase (and it seems
    to have worked considering some people see that as important)

    -Moa Dragon


    --
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  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Quoth "Steven W. Dalton" <ranthalion75@hotmail.com>:
    ....
    > I'm not trying to be rude, because you were polite and courteous
    > to me. But then why was it included on a CD with my PCGamer
    > subscription?

    There are three possibilities here:

    1) It's possible EA has released the game into PD in recent times.
    If that's so, though, I've not heard of it -- Origin certainly never
    did so while it was still in existence, and I'd count it unlikely for
    EA to do so either, given how protective it normally is of its IP.

    2) PC Gamer has come to a specific agreement with EA, in the same way
    CGW did with Origin back in 1997.

    3) PC Gamer made the assumption that because the game is available
    for download online, it must therefore be freely distributable.
    Again, this seems unlikely, how careful magazines generally are with
    others' copyrighted material -- but I'm a journalist myself, so I
    know that mistakes can be made.

    Without e-mailing EA myself, I don't have a definitive answer for
    you, I'm afraid. But the last time this was an issue, U4 was
    definitely not PD, FWIW.

    --
    _________________________________________________________
    \^\^//
    ,^ ( ..) ~~ Rai ~~ O .---. . F
    | \ \ o / O> \/| i
    \ `^--^ DC2.De Gm L W-- T Phflt Sks Cbk,sbk o \_. /\| s
    \ \ \ Bwi A Fr++ M R Ac J++ I-- V Q++ Tc+ `---' ` h
    ksj ^--^ _________________________________________________________
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Steven W. Dalton wrote:
    >>To be fair, my comment about the FAQ was directed at Moa -- I didn't
    >>directly respond to your original post at all.
    >>
    >
    > I'm sorry Samuri. My outburst wasn't aimed at you either. It's
    > just that being jumped and accused of being a pirate when all I did was ask
    > about an image that I could transfer back to Commie format and consistantly
    > being accused and harrassed after my explaination was given, is the same
    > type of reason every fan base ends up dying out. Too many angst filled,
    > arrogant people too willing to lash out at something they don't understand
    > and not taking the time to find out what or whom they're shooting at.

    This is the Internet, is what the problem is. Can't prove you own the
    game because proof can be faked on the 'Net. We take a hardline policy
    regarding the subject, as this thread has illustrated.

    You said that Origin is dead, but EA still holds the rights to the
    series, and they are not forgiving of stuff like this.

    Fortunately, you picked Ultima IV, which, as has been stated, the
    Dragons can give out the PC version of, so if you're not picky about it
    being Commodore, I'm sure Samurai or others can direct you to a location
    where it is available - alas, I don't know any such location. My Ultima
    IV is on the Ultima Collection disc.

    We're friendly people, really, but some things we do not do. As for our
    general lack of Ultima-topical threads... well, this is RGCU.dragons,
    where we simply hang out. RGCU.series is where the game-related stuff
    dominates. WHich is not to say we are devoid of game-related stuff here,
    as some threads show, only that this isn't the official 'group for such.

    -Lumina Dragon
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    "Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:6ejrb19mavpvg0ugmes1pmhm438n3gn2jk@4ax.com...

    > So let's recap: illegal? No. Advocating illegal activity: No.

    Don't you talk about your downloading of music from P2P sites on a regular
    basis? You even complained once that so many of the songs were defective
    that you had to download a thousand at a time and use Audacity to see which
    are broken...Ahoy, sounds like piracy to me!

    -Ophidian
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:39:00 -0500. Polychromic waffled thusly:

    > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:13:58 -0500, "Steven W. Dalton"
    > <ranthalion75@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Samurai" <nospam@dev.nul> wrote in message
    > >news:42bde50b$0$2404$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
    > >> Quoth "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com>:
    > >> ...
    > >>> Cause of course, we know the law is always perfectly rational,
    > >>> like in forbidding you to copy a C64 version of a game whose PC
    > >>> version is public domain.
    > >>
    > >> Point of information: U4 is not public domain, in any form. Origin
    > >> issued a very specific distribution licence to UDIC members.
    > >
    > >I'm not trying to be rude, because you were polite and courteous to me.
    > >But then why was it included on a CD with my PCGamer subscription?
    >
    > That may have been a special promotion like the one CGW got permission to
    > do in 1997. First time I've heard about it though. It could be another
    > KickAssGames situation.
    >
    > For those who don't remember,
    >
    > Origin gave CGW permission to distribute U4 on their Oct 97 CD as a
    > one-time promotion. Whisper Dragon and KickAssGames took this, wrongly,
    > to mean anyone could distribute it and put it on their sites. The Dragons
    > protested and eventually complained to Origin (Mike "Boomer" McCoy
    > specifically). They went after the sites and got U4 removed but as a
    > thank you to the Dragons, they gave us permission to distribute that same
    > PC version of U4.
    >

    See also:

    http://www.enlartenment.com/ultima/boomer.txt

    http://www.enlartenment.com/ultima/contrapuntal.html#kickass-story

    ( I wished I'd kept the flame mail from the proprietor of that now-defunct
    Planet*mumble* wannabe. 'twas quite funny)

    'punt (who feels quite old now - I think it's only a couple of weeks to my
    9th or 10th dragon birthday??)

    --
    The Internet: Where men are men, women are men,
    and children are law enforcement agents.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:11:03 +1000, Michael Fleming
    <bitbucket@enlartenment.com> wrote:

    >>
    >> Origin gave CGW permission to distribute U4 on their Oct 97 CD as a
    >> one-time promotion. Whisper Dragon and KickAssGames took this, wrongly,
    >> to mean anyone could distribute it and put it on their sites. The Dragons
    >> protested and eventually complained to Origin (Mike "Boomer" McCoy
    >> specifically). They went after the sites and got U4 removed but as a
    >> thank you to the Dragons, they gave us permission to distribute that same
    >> PC version of U4.
    >>
    >
    >See also:
    >
    >http://www.enlartenment.com/ultima/boomer.txt
    >
    >http://www.enlartenment.com/ultima/contrapuntal.html#kickass-story
    >
    >( I wished I'd kept the flame mail from the proprietor of that now-defunct
    >Planet*mumble* wannabe. 'twas quite funny)
    >
    >'punt (who feels quite old now - I think it's only a couple of weeks to my
    >9th or 10th dragon birthday??)
    Ah, truly getting old enough to be forgetful, eh? :-)
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "That's the great thing about being dumb -
    You don't feel bad when you don't come up with a good idea."
    -"Frog" from Best Of The West
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Michael Fleming wrote:
    >
    > 'punt (who feels quite old now - I think it's only a couple of weeks to my
    > 9th or 10th dragon birthday??)

    And here I was, going to check for you, until I tried checking the Grand
    Roster.... what happened here?

    -Lumina Dragon
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:10:14 GMT, Optician Dragon
    <DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:

    >Ah, truly getting old enough to be forgetful, eh? :-)

    Being forgetful is less of a problem than trying to go to once-popular
    sites and finding them utterly gone. That's when you start to feel old.

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    alk about your downloading of music from P2P sites on a regular
    > basis? You even complained once that so many of the songs were defective
    > that you had to download a thousand at a time and use Audacity to see
    > which are broken...Ahoy, sounds like piracy to me!
    >
    > -Ophidian

    But that doesn't mean he's a bad person...

    deserving a "slap down" as someone here mentioned.

    I am a big downloader but I also still like to think of myself
    as a nice guy, thank you very much. And believe me, I'm
    not hurting anyone.

    -Moa Dragon
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Of course the difference is, if I like a song I go buy the CD as I've
    > already indicated.

    Still it's illegal. Even if you buy it. Even if you delete it.

    It's illegal. Get it ?

    -Moa Dragon


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  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> Doesn't change the fact it's illegal. Read the FAQ. :)
    >
    >A lot of things are illegal to the point it becomes dumb.

    Still does not make it moral to break those things.
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Claus Dragon wrote:
    > Words to the wise, "Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Doesn't change the fact it's illegal. Read the FAQ. :)
    >>
    >>A lot of things are illegal to the point it becomes dumb.
    >
    >
    > Still does not make it moral to break those things.

    If it ain't illegal, immoral, or fattening.. We won't do it.

    -thehawk
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:30:38 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >That's a very Poly thing to do....
    >
    >Anyways, I think I've bought more CDs ever since I also download musics...
    >(I don't like buying stuff I don't know). I think I even downloaded tons
    >of music from MSN just because it's very convenient.

    Since I don't have a radio most of the music I buy is that I've heard when
    watching movies, or sometimes, television. That's why so many of those
    categories in my collection are just soundtracks.

    In real life when a friend recommends music they can usually either lend
    your their disc or just let you listen to some of the music from their
    radio. When online friends recommend music, how do you listen to it to
    see if you like it?

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Eek! thehawk wrote:
    <snip>
    > If it ain't illegal, immoral, or fattening.. We won't do it.

    We had a men's denim training today, and when there was a question about
    what's your favorite pair of jeans should be like, I said I don't like
    jeans that make me look fat.

    --
    Ashikaga a27
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    >>A lot of things are illegal to the point it becomes dumb.
    >
    > Still does not make it moral to break those things.

    Yes it does. They're dumb. The law and morality are two
    different things. If you let the law dictate your morals,
    then it's a sad thing.

    -Moa Dragon


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  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:28:49 +0200, "Mils Michael"
    <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >>>A lot of things are illegal to the point it becomes dumb.
    >>
    >> Still does not make it moral to break those things.
    >
    >Yes it does. They're dumb. The law and morality are two
    >different things. If you let the law dictate your morals,
    >then it's a sad thing.
    >
    >-Moa Dragon
    Yeah, otherwise how can the dumb laws be repealed?
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "That's the great thing about being dumb -
    You don't feel bad when you don't come up with a good idea."
    -"Frog" from Best Of The West
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 04:46:34 -0500, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:30:38 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>That's a very Poly thing to do....
    >>
    >>Anyways, I think I've bought more CDs ever since I also download musics...
    >>(I don't like buying stuff I don't know). I think I even downloaded tons
    >>of music from MSN just because it's very convenient.
    >
    >Since I don't have a radio most of the music I buy is that I've heard when
    >watching movies, or sometimes, television. That's why so many of those
    >categories in my collection are just soundtracks.
    >
    >In real life when a friend recommends music they can usually either lend
    >your their disc or just let you listen to some of the music from their
    >radio. When online friends recommend music, how do you listen to it to
    >see if you like it?
    Yeah, but theoretically, even loaning someone a CD for them to listen
    to violates the Fair Use, especially if they listen to it in a car
    loud enough to be heard in public, thence becoming a Public
    Performance.
    I know, it's stupid, but lawyers can make the moon blue.
    -=UDIC=-
    Optician Dragon
    "That's the great thing about being dumb -
    You don't feel bad when you don't come up with a good idea."
    -"Frog" from Best Of The West
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    > Going back to the original post for a moment - if you've got the PC
    > version
    > on CD, then why ask for the C64 image? I grew up with the C64 versions
    > (Ultima V being the first Ultima played on a C64 that still works) but a
    > combination of the given PC version + graphics and sound enhancements
    > would
    > result in a similar game (or better) than playing it on a C128? Why hunt
    > for (possibly corrupt or otherwise dodgy) images for a game you already
    > have?
    >
    Well, for one, nostalgia. I started with U4 on a C128, I loved it. I still
    had it and played it on the Commodore for a while. Two, I'm also a
    Commodore collector and an Ultima collector. I'm seeking to keep a fully
    operational and complete collection of the Ultima series created by Origin.
    I have all of the IBM based Ultimas and a few made for the Commodore and one
    for the Amiga. When I went back and dug out my C64 software and found that
    my U4 disks went bad and I didn't have backups, I started looking for an
    image that I could transfer back to Commodore disks.

    As for using Ultima on the IBM, I don't really like modding old software,
    for me it takes the originality out of the game. Although I have played it
    with the additions, the IBM version isn't the one that gives nostalgia for
    me.

    > If you're on a Linux box like me (or a Windows system that's too modern to
    > handle DOS games gracefully) you might want to look at "dosbox" also.
    >
    Yeah, I've already gotten DOSBox to play my old DOS games. Very good
    software.
    I've also gotten VMSCUMM to play Sam & Max and the other old LucasArts
    games.
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Polychromic Dragon the Unparalleled Pugnacious Pusher of Virtue wrote:
    >Since I don't have a radio most of the music I buy is that I've heard when
    >watching movies, or sometimes, television. That's why so many of those
    >categories in my collection are just soundtracks.
    >In real life when a friend recommends music they can usually either lend
    >your their disc or just let you listen to some of the music from their
    >radio. When online friends recommend music, how do you listen to it to
    >see if you like it?

    iTunes (and probably other licensed on-line music providers) allows
    you to download a 30 second sample of any of the songs they have free.
    Also, you could check the band or music company's website, conceivably
    they make some of their music available at no charge on-line.

    Some radio stations/networks "broadcast" on the internet as well you
    could listen to them. I realize that would rarely help you listen to a
    specific song, although if I heard a song on a national CBC radio
    program that would give 3 more chances to listen to it becuase it
    would be rebroadcast in staggered in three other time zones (there
    would be 4 chances if I was listening to a Maritime broadcast).

    Personally, I do not feel that downloading copyrighted music through
    illicit channels is any better than downloading copyright software.
    Although music copyright is more permissive and complex than that
    governing software if I understand aright. Anyway bad Poly no biscuit.

    To my mind the net result of copyright infringement is to make it
    harder for people to make money off creative work. Such work can
    happen without such protection but it will be more difficult to make
    money and so the number of people doing it would be smaller (cetus
    parabus). So for mere self-interest copyright is a good thing. Also,
    creators of intellectual property (or the entities to which they cede
    their rights) should have rights to their creations, the product of
    their labours and it is a moral issue of respect and giving people
    their due to respect copyright (at least to some degree, individual
    laws may go beyond this due YMMV etc.).

    Just to address something raised elsewhere in the thread. Even if a
    game has not been made available in years it can still cause damage to
    copy them. Ignoring the moral right of the creator not to make more
    copies available if he does not want to (perhaps even for artistic
    reasons), by making more unlicensed copies available you reduce the
    value of any new licensed copies that might be released in the future,
    that also creates an economic disincentive to rerelease the software.
    Every once and awhile old software does get rereleased as packaged
    license deals and it seems quite possible in the future that some
    company will find away to make available whole libraries of old games
    on-line through some kind of reasonable pay service. If that comes
    about who can say that there won't be UIV for the C64 available again.

    Personally, having been quite happy to copy software left right and
    centre in my misspent youth I was convinced that copyright would be
    dead by de facto rule by now. Since people still pay for digital
    content (even when they also download it illegally) I suppose humanity
    has for once exceeded my expectations for it.
    --
    d e+ N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!56A78!9 u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP
    nI+ nPT nS+ nT- y- a26, Captain in the Cinnaguard, Weirdo, Blue Bow
    , Website: http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound
    -----------
    Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
    Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
    -----------
    "with great power there must also come--great responsibility" Amazing
    Fantasy #15 'Spider Man!'.
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:06:35 +0200, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    > On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:10:14 GMT, Optician Dragon
    > <DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Ah, truly getting old enough to be forgetful, eh? :-)
    >
    > Being forgetful is less of a problem than trying to go to once-popular
    > sites and finding them utterly gone. That's when you start to feel old.
    >
    You know what makes me feel old?

    In town, or at malls there are the occasional stands where young people
    want to sell you cell phones for free. If you change your phone operator.
    THEY DON'T STOP ME ANYMORE. Even if I go back again, slowly around the
    stand, looking at the posters, sufficiently uninterested (I've learned
    from my cat) - I giv'em every opportunity. Still they don't stop me.

    I don't have a cell phone, and I don't want a cell phone. Still it's
    always nice to participate in a discussion which invariably goes like this:

    Young man: Do you want a cell phone for free?
    Pibbur: No.
    Young man: What operator do you use?
    Pibbur: I don't have a cell phone.
    Young man: You don't have a cell phone?
    Pibbur: And I don't want one either.
    Young man: But isn't it nice to be available when you're walking on the
    street?
    Pibbur: On the contrary, it's nice to be unavailablre.

    ---Pause------

    Young man: You know, your'e actually right about that.

    ---
    pibbur dragon, who cannot find anything remotely funny or relevant to add
    to his sig. today.


    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Eek! Polychromic wrote:
    > Ashikaga wrote:
    >
    >>That's a very Poly thing to do....
    >>
    >>Anyways, I think I've bought more CDs ever since I also download musics...
    >>(I don't like buying stuff I don't know). I think I even downloaded tons
    >>of music from MSN just because it's very convenient.
    >
    > Since I don't have a radio most of the music I buy is that I've heard when
    > watching movies, or sometimes, television. That's why so many of those
    > categories in my collection are just soundtracks.
    >
    > In real life when a friend recommends music they can usually either lend
    > your their disc or just let you listen to some of the music from their
    > radio. When online friends recommend music, how do you listen to it to
    > see if you like it?

    Many many ways. You can use that AMG website somebody recommend it, or use
    Amazon's or MSN's service. They are all sound clips, but at least you get
    a little bit of what you are about to buy. It can become a problem if
    there are several mixes of the same song that you need to pick from, but
    don't know which one is the best.... I usually just ended up buying
    several versions just to compare them (but at least you just buy one song
    instead of several CDs just to compare one song).

    If you have a Barnes & Noble near you, go to their CD section. They have
    these little station thingy with earphones. Just scan in the CD's barcode
    into it, and you'll able to listen to the soundtracks on that CD right
    there.

    --
    Ashikaga a27
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:42:02 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >If you have a Barnes & Noble near you, go to their CD section. They have
    >these little station thingy with earphones. Just scan in the CD's barcode
    >into it, and you'll able to listen to the soundtracks on that CD right
    >there.

    Yeah, Borders has that too. Only .01% more hygienic than demonstration
    toothbrushes though. *shudders*

    --
    The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
    http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
    http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
    RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    pibbur wrote:
    > On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:06:35 +0200, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:10:14 GMT, Optician Dragon
    >> <DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ah, truly getting old enough to be forgetful, eh? :-)
    >>
    >>
    >> Being forgetful is less of a problem than trying to go to once-popular
    >> sites and finding them utterly gone. That's when you start to feel old.
    >>
    > You know what makes me feel old?
    >
    > In town, or at malls there are the occasional stands where young people
    > want to sell you cell phones for free. If you change your phone
    > operator. THEY DON'T STOP ME ANYMORE. Even if I go back again, slowly
    > around the stand, looking at the posters, sufficiently uninterested
    > (I've learned from my cat) - I giv'em every opportunity. Still they
    > don't stop me.
    >
    > I don't have a cell phone, and I don't want a cell phone. Still it's
    > always nice to participate in a discussion which invariably goes like this:
    >
    > Young man: Do you want a cell phone for free?
    > Pibbur: No.
    > Young man: What operator do you use?
    > Pibbur: I don't have a cell phone.
    > Young man: You don't have a cell phone?
    > Pibbur: And I don't want one either.
    > Young man: But isn't it nice to be available when you're walking on the
    > street?
    > Pibbur: On the contrary, it's nice to be unavailablre.
    >
    > ---Pause------
    >
    > Young man: You know, your'e actually right about that.
    >
    > ---
    > pibbur dragon, who cannot find anything remotely funny or relevant to
    > add to his sig. today.

    You are right- there is nothing better than a phoneless cord.

    -thehawk
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Eek! Polychromic wrote:
    > Ashikaga wrote:
    >
    >>If you have a Barnes & Noble near you, go to their CD section. They have
    >>these little station thingy with earphones. Just scan in the CD's barcode
    >>into it, and you'll able to listen to the soundtracks on that CD right
    >>there.
    >
    > Yeah, Borders has that too. Only .01% more hygienic than demonstration
    > toothbrushes though. *shudders*

    (*molds come out of the ear*) What did you say?

    --
    Ashikaga a27
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

    Words to the wise, pibbur <oops@dragonline.noland> wrote:

    >I don't have a cell phone, and I don't want a cell phone. Still it's
    >always nice to participate in a discussion which invariably goes like this:

    *snip*

    On a similar note, I had the following experience:

    I am at my telephone provider who also sell some laptopts and other
    gear. I was there to get a spare part for my phone and was waiting
    until someone was available.

    Well, young shop assistant finally walked up to me and asked

    "Could I interest you in one of our laptops?"

    Sorry, no. If I am interested, I am asking. Well, I left and came back
    the next day to find a better assistant.

    I am aware that the people there get provisions for the sales they do,
    but even starting to try to talk me into some laptop is offensive to
    me.
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