Terrible news from London today

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My condolences to the british people.

--
pibbur
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[Samurai]

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Quoth pibbur <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill>:

> My condolences to the british people.

Thank you. Not just Brits affected, though -- apparently a lot of
hospital staff from other countries had to fill in as temporary
interpreters. Quite a lot of tourists and language exchange students
appear to have been caught up in it, too.

--

___________________________________________________________
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Eek! pibbur wrote:
> My condolences to the british people.

I went to Yahoo just to see what you were talking about. So 33 people died
in London of "suspected" terrorist attempt. Though the news try to make it
as if it's an act of terrorism which "Security experts said the blasts had
all the hallmarks of the al Qaeda network responsible for the Sept. 11,
2001, attacks on the United States and the Madrid train bombings in 2004",
but you'd think they'd be wisen up and not to repeat the same trick twice
or even thrice.</cynical>

But it's also a day after the announcement of the Olympic stuff, so it's
possible the so-called terrorists are really French. ;-)

--
Ashikaga a27

 

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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:15:33 +0200, Ashikaga <citizenashi@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Eek! pibbur wrote:
>> My condolences to the british people.
>
> I went to Yahoo just to see what you were talking about. So 33 people
> died
> in London of "suspected" terrorist attempt. Though the news try to make
> it
> as if it's an act of terrorism which "Security experts said the blasts
> had
> all the hallmarks of the al Qaeda network responsible for the Sept. 11,
> 2001, attacks on the United States and the Madrid train bombings in
> 2004",
> but you'd think they'd be wisen up and not to repeat the same trick twice
> or even thrice.</cynical>

Why should they? In their own eyes both attacks were a success.

>
> But it's also a day after the announcement of the Olympic stuff, so it's
> possible the so-called terrorists are really French. ;-)
>
FWIW: it seems to have been a well coordinated set of bomb attacks against
the subway (3 explosions) and bus (1 explosion) systems. There is little
doubt that this is a terrorist attack, and AFAIK few organisations other
than AQ is capable coordinating an attack like that.

As to motive, I really can't see that the olympics has anything to do with
it, as the attacks would require a lot of planning. A more likely motive
is the G8 meeting which opened in the UK today. Or the british egagement
in Iraq.

OTOH my view isn't particularly important, coming safely from a small,
insignificant country and not directly affected. Undoubtedly Sammie can
contribute more.

--
pibbur

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"pibbur" <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote in message
newsp.stjt6dt8uioorg@nessus...
> My condolences to the british people.

I would add my condolences, and also say that the terror group that
claims responsibility has the dumbest name I've ever heard:

"Secret Organization Group al Qaeda Organization in Europe"

-Ophidian

 

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In article <42cd4ce4$0$16317$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
nospam@dev.nul says...
> > My condolences to the british people.
>
> Thank you. Not just Brits affected, though -- apparently a lot of
> hospital staff from other countries had to fill in as temporary
> interpreters. Quite a lot of tourists and language exchange students
> appear to have been caught up in it, too.

Hi Sammy. I'm glad you're still in one completely functional piece.
--
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Note: This post is composed of 100% post-consumer material.
This birdy likes no spam. :>

 

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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:07:24 GMT, pibbur
<oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:

>
> A more likely motive
>is the G8 meeting which opened in the UK today.

I'd say this is the most likely reason. Blair and Bush were having a
pre-meeting breakfast when it happened, or so I understand. But
timed, apparently, for rush hour.

I knew this was and will continue to be a "when" and not an "if."

My sympathies to the Brits as well. And all of us, really. What
affects our friends, affects us.


--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa2

This is the comfort of everyone: That tho' they
may be said to die, yet their love and devotion
are, in best sense, ever present because immortal.
~William Penn
In memory of my father, 1 Jan 05

 

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"Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote in message
news:dak7cn$2d2$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu...
>
> "pibbur" <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote in message
> newsp.stjt6dt8uioorg@nessus...
>> My condolences to the british people.
>
> I would add my condolences, and also say that the terror group that claims
> responsibility has the dumbest name I've ever heard:
>
> "Secret Organization Group al Qaeda Organization in Europe"

At least it gets a little better when you SOGaQOiE-ify it.
Eeh..... no it doesn't. My bad.

LVD

 

[nick]

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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
<oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:

>My condolences to the british people.

Worse has happened in London before.

--
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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:26:46 +0100, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
><oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:
>
>>My condolences to the british people.
>
>Worse has happened in London before.

I don't suppose the families of the dead are going to be shrugging it
off and saying, oh well, worse has happened here.

I've never understood making comparisons to something worse, as though
that somehow really makes a difference.



--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa2

This is the comfort of everyone: That tho' they
may be said to die, yet their love and devotion
are, in best sense, ever present because immortal.
~William Penn
In memory of my father, 1 Jan 05

 

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> Do you mean that you not only are a prophet, but that you're actually
> causing these things to happen? If so, shutting up may be wise.

Not only that, but it made me look suspicious to some friends.

-Moa Dragon


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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:40:33 +0200, <erimess> wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:26:46 +0100, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
>> <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:
>>
>>> My condolences to the british people.
>>
>> Worse has happened in London before.
>
> I don't suppose the families of the dead are going to be shrugging it
> off and saying, oh well, worse has happened here.
>
> I've never understood making comparisons to something worse, as though
> that somehow really makes a difference.
>
>
I've thought of this a lot.

Through my work I've witnessed a number of tragedies. For instance as, a
young med. student I spent one night watching over a 16 year old boy with
acute leukemia. At that time there were no cure for leukemia, and it
usualløy took only a month or two between diagnosis and death. He knew he
was going to die, and he suffered badly.

Later in life, when I started having my depressions I often thought him
and and other people with far worse conditions than I had. So why
complaining?

I've come to the following conclusion: "My pain IS MY pain". The fact that
other suffer more does not affect that. OTOH it's also important to
realize the "My pain is not THEIR pain." I'm not saying that I should not
share my pain with others, quite the opposite. But other people are
entitled to look at things without the emotions I experience.

--
pibbur

 

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Words to the wise, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote:

>>My condolences to the british people.
>
>Worse has happened in London before.

Not long ago, re-election of Blair, for instance

 

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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:06:53 +0200, Claus Dragon
<claus@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:

> Words to the wise, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>> My condolences to the british people.
>>
>> Worse has happened in London before.
>
> Not long ago, re-election of Blair, for instance

Do you imply that the Tory candidate would have been better?

--
pibbur

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On 2005-07-08, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
><oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:
>
>>My condolences to the british people.
>
> Worse has happened in London before.

In the danger of sounding disrespectful...
What happened in London now is pretty much like an average day in Iraq.
With the exception that England will not have to endure it for every
day.
I have long ago stopped being more shocked about people dying over
here than I am of people over there. Out of principle. Because I
strongly believe that every person is worth exactly the same.

The only reason that, to me, justifies more news time for this attack
than to a comparable one Iraq is because already polititians are
shouting for more security laws that take away more and more freedom.

The terrorists can't take your freedom away.
Only the polititians can do that.

--
Lehmeier Michael (Nightshade Dragon UDIC)

8:00 - 12:00 : Frohlocken!
12:00 - 20:00 : Hosianna singen!

 

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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:48:29 +0200, Michael Lehmeier <m_lehmeier@gmx.de>
wrote:

> On 2005-07-08, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
>> <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:
>>
>>> My condolences to the british people.
>>
>> Worse has happened in London before.
>
> In the danger of sounding disrespectful...

I don't find your post disrespectful.

> What happened in London now is pretty much like an average day in Iraq.
> With the exception that England will not have to endure it for every
> day.
> I have long ago stopped being more shocked about people dying over
> here than I am of people over there. Out of principle. Because I
> strongly believe that every person is worth exactly the same.

You are of course correct. My original post was based on my emotional
reactions to the event, and since I'm much closer to London and have been
there several times, I react stronger when something like this happens
there. That's human.

But an Iraqui life is of course just as important as a british one (or a
norwegian one).

FWIW, I'm strongly opposed to the invasion of Iraq, which also to me seems
like a dead end and a derailment regarding the "war on terror".

>
> The only reason that, to me, justifies more news time for this attack
> than to a comparable one Iraq is because already polititians are
> shouting for more security laws that take away more and more freedom.
>

I share your concerns.

> The terrorists can't take your freedom away.
> Only the polititians can do that.
>

--
pibbur

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On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:48:29 +0200, Michael Lehmeier
<m_lehmeier@gmx.de> wrote:

>On 2005-07-08, Nick <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:19:43 GMT, pibbur
>><oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:
>>
>>>My condolences to the british people.
>>
>> Worse has happened in London before.
>
>In the danger of sounding disrespectful...
>What happened in London now is pretty much like an average day in Iraq.
>With the exception that England will not have to endure it for every
>day.
>I have long ago stopped being more shocked about people dying over
>here than I am of people over there. Out of principle. Because I
>strongly believe that every person is worth exactly the same.
>
>The only reason that, to me, justifies more news time for this attack
>than to a comparable one Iraq is because already polititians are
>shouting for more security laws that take away more and more freedom.
>
>The terrorists can't take your freedom away.
>Only the polititians can do that.
I know, it seems more and more here that this government is bent on
making it illegal to disagree with it. Sound familiar?
OTOH, I believe the British people will just buckle up, set their
chin, and be ever more determined.One thing terrorists don't seem to
get is that there will be a point where everyone says "Enough!", and
then the fecal matter will really impact the rotating airfoil.
-=UDIC=-
Optician Dragon
"That's the great thing about being dumb -
You don't feel bad when you don't come up with a good idea."
-"Frog" from Best Of The West

 

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Words to the wise, pibbur <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote:

>>> Worse has happened in London before.
>>
>> Not long ago, re-election of Blair, for instance
>
>Do you imply that the Tory candidate would have been better?

Good point. But perhaps a Tory candidate would have been less
conservative than Blair :>

 

[Samurai]

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Quoth Wtcher Dragon <nospambirdy@ultima-dragons.org>:
....
> Hi Sammy. I'm glad you're still in one completely functional
> piece.

I quite often venture into London on Thursdays, but not this particular
Thursday, thankfully. In fact, I didn't know about the bombings until
the friend I'd have been worried about most, if I had, phoned me to let
me know he was all right. Which was something, I suppose.

Thanks for the concern, though!

--

___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
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[Samurai]

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Quoth pibbur <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill>:
....
> FWIW, I'm strongly opposed to the invasion of Iraq, which also to
> me seems like a dead end and a derailment regarding the "war on
> terror".

It's a complete failure. Iraq is now the single hottest recruiting ground for
extremist Muslim groups, as I believe various security agencies have admitted. The
US should not have taken troops out of Afghanistan until the job there was finished,
especially on the basis of inconclusive evidence. They've toppled Saddam, which is
good, but they've hung Afhganistan out to dry and caused the deaths of many, many
innocent Iraqis in the process.

I'm not terribly happy about the Iraq invasion either, as you can tell, and I agree
the London bombings aren't as significant as many are making them out to be. As Nick
mentioned, the British capital has survived worse, and it'll get through this, too.
I feel for the families who've lost loved ones, but thankfully there aren't very many
of them.

--

___________________________________________________________
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[Samurai]

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Quoth erimess:
....
> I don't suppose the families of the dead are going to be shrugging
> it off and saying, oh well, worse has happened here.

Of course not. I don't think that's being suggested, FWIW.

> I've never understood making comparisons to something worse, as
> though that somehow really makes a difference.

I suspect the comparison is less to do with the loss of life, than
the media coverage thereof. British television had was wall-to-wall
coverage of the bombing aftermath on Thursday, yet many more Iraqi
deaths are spared perhaps five minutes on the evening bulletin -- and
that's more than most countries' media would afford them, I suspect.

It's that dichotomy -- which as a news professional myself I must say
I understand to a large extent, even if I'm not terribly happy about
it -- to which people primarily object, I reckon.

--

___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
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"pibbur" <oopsNO.CAPS000@tele2dragon.nomaill> wrote in message
newsp.stk7umuouioorg@nessus...
> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:48:29 +0200, Michael Lehmeier <m_lehmeier@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>
>> What happened in London now is pretty much like an average day in Iraq.
>> With the exception that England will not have to endure it for every
>> day.
>> I have long ago stopped being more shocked about people dying over
>> here than I am of people over there. Out of principle. Because I
>> strongly believe that every person is worth exactly the same.
>
> You are of course correct. My original post was based on my emotional
> reactions to the event, and since I'm much closer to London and have been
> there several times, I react stronger when something like this happens
> there. That's human.

I often think that people's reaction to these kinds of events is
not -really- about people dying or suffering as such, even though that plays
a part, of course. It's more to do with where, when and how it happened, and
the degree to which it was expected - the more unexpected the tragedy the
bigger the response.

- GSD

 

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Words to the wise, Samurai <nospam@dev.nul> wrote:

>I suspect the comparison is less to do with the loss of life, than
>the media coverage thereof. British television had was wall-to-wall
>coverage of the bombing aftermath on Thursday, yet many more Iraqi
>deaths are spared perhaps five minutes on the evening bulletin -- and
>that's more than most countries' media would afford them, I suspect.

Well, in my opinion (and my brother's who spent 3.5 years on the
island, and my gf's who spent half a year there), British TV is a bit
more ... island-centered than most other continental media we have
watched (and understood).

 

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"Samurai" <nospam@dev.nul> wrote in message
news:42cf281e$0$22099$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> Quoth erimess:
>
> I suspect the comparison is less to do with the loss of life, than
> the media coverage thereof. British television had was wall-to-wall
> coverage of the bombing aftermath on Thursday, yet many more Iraqi
> deaths are spared perhaps five minutes on the evening bulletin -- and
> that's more than most countries' media would afford them, I suspect.
>
> It's that dichotomy -- which as a news professional myself I must say
> I understand to a large extent, even if I'm not terribly happy about
> it -- to which people primarily object, I reckon.

You still have to wonder why people object to the exclusion of coverage for
Iraqis rather than, say, people who die in Sudan, Congo, sub-Saharan Africa,
in short anywhere where US and UK are not involved somehow. There's always
selective process at play.

- GSD

 

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Quoth "Great Siberian Dragon" <daria@optushome.com.au>:
....
> You still have to wonder why people object to the exclusion of
> coverage for Iraqis rather than, say, people who die in Sudan,
> Congo, sub-Saharan Africa, in short anywhere where US and UK are
> not involved somehow. There's always selective process at play.

Of course -- that's only natural. People are still tribal, at root;
they're generally more interested in things related to them in some
concrete way, even if the only connection is the involvement of their
country's military.

But I picked Iraq only because it had already been mentioned, FWIW.
Sudan, Tibet or dozens of other places would have served just as well
to illustrate my point.



--
____________________________________________________

~~ Paul G ~~
____________________________________________________