Memory & Mobo Q's

[Boco]

I have some questions regarding what memory to get with my mobo. I will be on a p4-2.4 800fsb on a p4c800e-deluxe (looking to upgrade to Extreme Edition later.) and was going for some Pc-4000 ram. But the specs say that the ram slots will support Dual Channel DDR400/333/266 and a PC-4000 is DDR500. I am a bit confused now. Is there a mobo that can support DDR500 and can support EE in the future? Thanks.

 

[Crashman]

What is WRONG with you people? The 2.6C droped to 2.4C speeds 2 MONTHS AGO! The 2.8C drops to that price MONDAY! The 2.8C overclocks FAR better than the 2.4C because 3.5GHz comes at a mear 250MHz FSB! So the 2.4C is a TERRIBLE deal for overclocking!

All performance boards that support PC3200 support PC4000. PC4000 is a version of PC3200 that has been tested to support overclocking.

I'd suggest the Abit IS7, the P4C800-E Deluxe is overpriced.

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[Boco]

Ahh I see. Thank you for the memory lesson. I will check out the mobo you suggested.

 

[Crashman]

I own the P4C800-E Deluxe by the way. I bought it for a RAM review. It's a great board, but not worth the extra price in my opinion.

You can read my review of the board <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/asus-P4C800-E_Deluxe/index.html" target="_new">Here</A>. Then you can see a comparison of boards <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1831" target="_new">Here</A>

Anandtech didn't pick up on the voltage issue with the P4C800-E Deluxe (and earlier versions). Abit has a better VRM.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Boco]

Those were very good reads. I will most likely switch to Abit now. Thanks for the info. Hmm now to decided which one the IC7 or the IS7 there is even a A17. I don't mind the money. But I do mind performance. Any suggestions on this? Thanks.

Nevermind, found out. =p

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Boco on 01/31/04 04:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

All three perform about the same. The IS7 has a layout I prefer because of it's 5 analog sound ports and top position AGP slot. The AI7 has higher vDIMM settings.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

Hey, I just got a p4c800-e deluxe with 2 sticks of kingston vendor, mosel brand KVR400X72C3A/512 400MHZ DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 2. I read on sysopt.com that I should stay away from this brand and get cosair or crucial. The only other memory that I like which will work with this mobo to use dual channel mode are from samsung - another good brand for memory, I believe. I ask b/c memtest86 froze three times on three separate occasions when checking in ECC mode and non-ECC mode, too.

I have a RAIDMAX 500 WATT PSU (it's blue and it's fairly new), but I hear that PSU bites. The 12V rail line fluctuates, via Asus PC Probe. The Voltage is between 11.3 and 11.7. The Vcore, the last time I saw it, was fluctuating between 1.47 and ~1.65; something like that. chuck the Raidmax, right?

 

[Crashman]

LOL, I answered some of this over there. But anyway, I've heard various good and bad stories about Kingston RAM, you'll probably need to overvolt it to get it stable. I suggest 2.75v, unless 2.65v does the job.

Lots of RAM works with this board. I'm using Corsair XMS PC4000-Pro. The stuff from that review at sysopt.

Yes, that power supply looks like it sux. I'd go with a Fortron

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

Then that would explain why my system reboots and freezes. Ya know, it even rebooted a couple of times within 60 seconds of booting up my machine! (I think the machine was warm, but I'm not sure. It even could've been a warm boot for all I know.) Question, where in the BIOS do I do that, raise the RAM voltage?

Thank you for answering so quickly and I'm sorry for making you jump from forum to forum answering my trivial questions.

 

[poly4life]

Oh, forgot to ask, was the corsair memory you bought work for dual channel mode, especially at the most optimum level. 'Cause if I find that the RAM is bad, which I hope it's not, I have no idea how to get a refund on Kingston memory that i purchaces in the middle of dec.? Got any suggestions on that one? Thank you in advance for your help and I appreciate it very much, sir.

 

[Crashman]

BTW, if you want your 12v line to be around 11.9v get Antec. If you want your 12v line to be around 12.1v, get Fortron. It helps that Fortron cost less.

Also, Sparkle Power (SPI) is part of the FSP Group, and the FS in FSP is Fortron Source, the manufacturer.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

I didn't buy it, I got it free for <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/Corsair_TwinX1024-4000Pro/index.html" target="_new">This Review</A>. In fact, I bought this board in order to review that memory.

If you read the review you'll find that even this PC4000 wouldn't run at SPD values and stock voltage and PC3200 speed. It does now, it's "burned in" I guess.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

Pasted from syspot.com

Ok, if I get the Fortron, I'll get the 530W one. But what model of Fortron do you use in your comp? BTW, I have two 80mm fans in the back, next to the PSU, and one 80mm fan attached to my windowed aluminum cover. When this system was running, the mobo temp was bt greater than 75 but less than 89, in farenheit. The CPU was between 90 and 95, als in farenheit. And since you don't use any fans, and your using more components than me, there's a great chance overheating is not the reason for all this crap I have to go through with my custom comp.

So, if I want the best memory for this board, get your memory at crucial, and this will lead to an equivalent performance of the approved PC3200 sticks for this mobo for dual-channel mode, right?

 

[Crashman]

What I'm saying is that memory most companies would sell as PC3200 Cas2.5, Crucial would sell as PC3200 Cas3. That's how Crucial maintains their reputation for stability. But I think you can get your Kingston stable if you play with voltage. If that didn't work you could always use larger latency values.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

I read your review, and I don't want to overclock anything yet. If you've been reading my posts over at sysopt.com, I just want to the comp to work the way it should. Once that happens, then I'll worry about overclocking. I'm not a speed demon, but I would like to take advantage of dual-channel mode.

Having said that, do you know if cosair sells memory that will run in dual channel mode, even though I don't see cosair on the QVL sheet for the Asus mobo?

 

[poly4life]

Ohhhhh...I think I got ya. Question (and it is probably really stupid), how would I use larger latency values? I mean, is that something I can vary in the BIOS? (Told ya it was stupid, didn't I?)

 

[Crashman]

Corsair often has recommended PC3500 for use as PC3200 with boards like these. That's a good recommendation, because PC3500 is nothing more than good PC3200 that's had it's latency values raised in SPD.

Anyway, I'm not talking about overclocking your Kingston, I'm talking about raising the voltage slightly at stock speed. Yes, you would have to go into Asus's overclocking menu and set it to "manual" to get the "DDR Reference Voltage" setting to appear, but since you wouldn't be changing the clock speed, you wouldn't be "overclocking".

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

Yes, on that configuration screen where it says RAM "BY SPD" change it to "Manual". Then the latency values will appear, you can make them slower (larger). That gives you stability at the cost of some performance (not a lot, but some). That's why it's better in my opinion to try raising vDIMM first.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

Let's say the Kingston mem sticks are bad, do you have any suggestions to return and get a refund for a two month old order?

If I were to get the crucial PC3200 memory, which does not qualify for Dual-channel mode, it should work w/o modifying the memory voltage. But If I got the corsair sticks you have, I would have to do some dirty work to get it working, and it is compatible with the board for Dual-channel mode, as you pointed out in your review which I read.

The reason the kingston memory may not work is b/c it's CAS latency is 2 and the base voltage is too high and too close to the max voltage?

 

[poly4life]

Let me first say that I REALLY, REALLY appreciate your advice and I kinda feel bad that I'm taking up your time like this. I just am trying to learn from my mistakes by learning from you. Raise the vDIMM first and then try raising the latency. Got it. THANK YOU! I am so happy that i found someone with my board! What are the odds that a guy like you, a reviewer for tomshardware.com, arguably the best site for computer stuff - although not much PSUs - would have the same board as I? Amazing.

 

[Crashman]

LOL, I'm a reviewer for Sysopt right now.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

My apologies Crashman. You already recommended me a fortron PSU? Since I already know how you feel about Antec, that your not too crazy about them - and PSUs seem to be a matter of taste as I talk to more and mor people - what other manufactures do you like? How about Enermax? Thermaltake? Vantec? Powmax?

 

[poly4life]

I wasn't trying to suck up to you, Crashman. tomshardware.com is one of the best places to get information. But syspot.com is starting to grow on me, not unlike a fungus. Either way, you do a great job and I respect your knowledge and experience, not to mention your generosity in helping people such as myself.

 

[Crashman]

Like I said before, Antec's true power supplies are good. Yeh, I don't like the company, I used to get a lot of junk Antec supplies in the late 90's. And people said they were good back then, but that's only because they were comparing them to even worse stuff.

Fortron makes a lot of brand name supplies. Sparkle Power uses them, Aopen for their high end supplies, Zalman, PC Power & Cooling, etc.

Enermax makes good supplies too. Powmax has some of the worst supplies in the industry. Take a look at the power supply article at sysopt, that junk 400W unit was a PowMax.

Unless I was buying a cheap power supply for a junk system, I'd only buy Fortron. But I can't call Antec's True Power bad in any honesty, I can only say that Fortron gives you more for less money. And Enermax is a good power supply company.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[poly4life]

That's interesting that Pc Power Cooling uses Fortron. If they use it, then it must be good. Leo Leport from TechTV always recommends them. What brand of PSU does dell use, 'cause I noticed PC Power and Cooling sells a Del 275W PSU. Ite, I'm getting the 530W Fortron at newegg.com. Thank you veyr much for everything and I'll most likely post on sysopt.com if I remedied the problems I having, confirming if your voltage and/or latency tweaks were the trick or I have faulty memory.