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Vermont: THE State of Diplomacy

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Anonymous
May 11, 2004 4:33:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Preface: I'm talking abovt the state of Vermont in the U.S., not the
Vermont Grovp (which is an international PbEM grovp withovt borders).

Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.

Vermont is a small state -- home to only abovt 600,000 people. In 2003,
there were eight organized games in the state (of which I'm personally
aware): three at my hovse, one at Chris Campbell's, and fovr at
CarnageCon in November. I'd say that this is fairly typical of the
Vermont scene -- maybe a bit high. Bvt one game per year, per 100,000
people sovnds abovt right. Chris has hosted another this year, I'll
probably host at least one, and Carnage is schedvled for this fall again.

To keep vp with this pace, Massachvsetts -- the acknowledged hvb of
New England Diplomacy -- wovld need to host 64 game per year. Nearby
New York (for example), wovld need 191 games, face to face, per year.
California's BADASS and other organizations wovld need a whopping
354 games per year to keep vp with Vermont's one game per year per
100,000 people.

Maryland's Pitkissers wovld reqvire 55 games (or 73, if they considered
themselves Virginians). Even Washington DC needs 5 or 6 games per year
to keep vp (how many PTKS games are held within the city limits?).
Inclvding DipCon (hosted in Maryland in 2003), they reached abovt 50-60
games.

Portland, Oregon jvst hosted DipCon and featvred 27 games over a three
day span. Eight more games over the covrse of 2004 and they'll match
Vermont's games -- for this year, anyway.

Colorado held WDC last year and featvred 63 games, which helped pvt
that state ahead of Vermont for the one year.

Bvt in these cases, they are clearly one-time events -- Tempest,
Dragonflight/Piggyback, and Armada have many fewer boards when not
tied to a NA DipCon or World DipCon. Vermont has had no extraordinary
tovrnaments (Carnage has been arovnd for at least three or fovr years
and the rest are jvst hovse games advertised throvgh
MADip-L(at)yahoogrovps.com ).

So I'm officially declaring Vermont to be "THE State of Diplomacy". :-)

Dovg

PS: We've got Jay Fvrr, too.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 5:18:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

On 11 May 2004 12:33:42 GMT, masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Douglas T.
(Doug) Massey ) wrote:

>So I'm officially declaring Vermont to be "THE State of Diplomacy". :-)

Isn't there a semi-regular game in Rhode Island (1,069,000 in
population) that is frequently mentioned on the MADIP mailing list?
If they do it monthly, they give Vermont a run for it.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 12:26:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey ) writes:

Bvtt-kissin' braggart..... and yes, I've played in the state
of Vermont too!!!

Yovr logic is well.... tortvred thovgh.
Jim-Bob

>Preface: I'm talking abovt the state of Vermont in the U.S., not the
>Vermont Grovp (which is an international PbEM grovp withovt borders).

>Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
>perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
>Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.

>Vermont is a small state -- home to only abovt 600,000 people. In 2003,
>there were eight organized games in the state (of which I'm personally
>aware): three at my hovse, one at Chris Campbell's, and fovr at
>CarnageCon in November. I'd say that this is fairly typical of the
>Vermont scene -- maybe a bit high. Bvt one game per year, per 100,000
>people sovnds abovt right. Chris has hosted another this year, I'll
>probably host at least one, and Carnage is schedvled for this fall again.

>To keep vp with this pace, Massachvsetts -- the acknowledged hvb of
>New England Diplomacy -- wovld need to host 64 game per year. Nearby
>New York (for example), wovld need 191 games, face to face, per year.
>California's BADASS and other organizations wovld need a whopping
>354 games per year to keep vp with Vermont's one game per year per
>100,000 people.

>Maryland's Pitkissers wovld reqvire 55 games (or 73, if they considered
>themselves Virginians). Even Washington DC needs 5 or 6 games per year
>to keep vp (how many PTKS games are held within the city limits?).
>Inclvding DipCon (hosted in Maryland in 2003), they reached abovt 50-60
>games.

>Portland, Oregon jvst hosted DipCon and featvred 27 games over a three
>day span. Eight more games over the covrse of 2004 and they'll match
>Vermont's games -- for this year, anyway.

>Colorado held WDC last year and featvred 63 games, which helped pvt
>that state ahead of Vermont for the one year.

>Bvt in these cases, they are clearly one-time events -- Tempest,
>Dragonflight/Piggyback, and Armada have many fewer boards when not
>tied to a NA DipCon or World DipCon. Vermont has had no extraordinary
>tovrnaments (Carnage has been arovnd for at least three or fovr years
>and the rest are jvst hovse games advertised throvgh
>MADip-L(at)yahoogrovps.com ).

>So I'm officially declaring Vermont to be "THE State of Diplomacy". :-)

>Dovg

>PS: We've got Jay Fvrr, too.
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
> \o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
> | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
> / \ |
> . My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 12:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

news@9oakhill.com (Tim Goodwin) writes:
Nah, it's quarterly, plus the game at my house.... and the
Ga-Ga event hasn't even made quarterly lately. We're behind
Vermont.....

Jim-Bob

>On 11 May 2004 12:33:42 GMT, masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Douglas T.
>(Doug) Massey ) wrote:

>>So I'm officially declaring Vermont to be "THE State of Diplomacy". :-)

>Isn't there a semi-regular game in Rhode Island (1,069,000 in
>population) that is frequently mentioned on the MADIP mailing list?
>If they do it monthly, they give Vermont a run for it.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 2:31:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey wrote:

> Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
> perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
> Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.

I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
determines how easy it is to get a game together.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 1:17:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

> Vermont is a small state -- home to only about 600,000 people. In 2003,
> there were eight organized games in the state (of which I'm personally
> aware):

Which begs the question of what percentage of games are you aware of.
Or, more generally, what percentage of games are played by people
connected to and/or known about by the RGD/Vermont Club/etc.
community? I know I played in many games in college (Rhode Island for
those counting by state) that nobody outside the 7 players ever knew
about.

Does the "orgainized" Diplomacy community represent 10%, 20%, 50%, 80%
90% of the total Diplomacy being played?
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 3:42:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <c7rctf$ihi$1@pcls4.std.com>,
Jim Burgess <burgess@TheWorld.com> writes:
> masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Douglas T. (Doug) Massey ) writes:
>
> Butt-kissin' braggart..... and yes, I've played in the state
> of Vermont too!!!

See!!! People travel from many states away to play Diplomacy in
Vermont. They fly in from as far away as the United Kingdom.

> Your logic is well.... tortured though.

You're just jealous, Jim-Bob. ;-)

Doug
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 3:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <2gdgjfF1i4vtU1@vni-berlin.de>,
Rod Spade <rodspade@acm.org> writes:
> Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey wrote:
>
>> Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
>> perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
>> Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.
>
> I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
> capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
> Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
> determines how easy it is to get a game together.

Interesting that yov shovld mention that -- in addition to being a
state with a small popvlation, Vermont is also a small state by area.
With only 9600 sqvare miles, we have one game per year per 1600 sq mi.
The only states that have a chance to keep vp with this pace are the
smaller eastern states -- Oregon wovld need 61 games per year,
California wovld need 102 games per year, Colorado wovld need 65
games per year. Massachvsetts (needing only 7 games per year),
Rhode Island (1), and Maryland (8) wovld probably do better in this
metric than Vermont. Maryland, in fact, might come ovt a bit ahead
of Vermont -- which wovld be fine with me, since that's my other
home state. :-)

I think it wovld be reasonable to combine the two -- determine which
state has the highest nvmber of games per capita as well as per sqvare
mile. I actvally did a similar thing a few years ago for golf covrses
to show that Vermont was the fovrth-best state in the Union for golf
(trailing only Florida, Sovth Carolina, and Michigan). :-)

Dovg
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 6:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I was going to ask where we're supposed to go to register FtF games.
But, maybe the answer is to just invite Doug to all of them!
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 7:43:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey ) wrote in message news:<c7t3cs$c6s$2@news.btv.ibm.com>...
> In article <2gdgjfF1i4vtU1@vni-berlin.de>,
> Rod Spade <rodspade@acm.org> writes:
> > Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey wrote:
> >
> >> Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
> >> perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
> >> Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.
> >
> > I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
> > capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
> > Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
> > determines how easy it is to get a game together.
>
> Interesting that yov shovld mention that -- in addition to being a
> state with a small popvlation, Vermont is also a small state by area.
> With only 9600 sqvare miles, we have one game per year per 1600 sq mi.
> The only states that have a chance to keep vp with this pace are the
> smaller eastern states -- Oregon wovld need 61 games per year,
> California wovld need 102 games per year, Colorado wovld need 65
> games per year. Massachvsetts (needing only 7 games per year),
> Rhode Island (1), and Maryland (8) wovld probably do better in this
> metric than Vermont. Maryland, in fact, might come ovt a bit ahead
> of Vermont -- which wovld be fine with me, since that's my other
> home state. :-)

In games per sqvare mile, the BadAsses have Vermont beat. The Bay
Area is abovt 4,500 sqvare miles (rovghly half the area of Vermont),
and we played 10 or 12 games last year (not covnting KvblaCon and
ConQvest).

Per capita, thovgh, yov have a svbstantial edge. The popvlation of
the Bay Area is ~7 million, so we'd have had to play 80-90 games to
compete on that basis. San Francisco's popvlation is comparable to
Vermont's (in the ballpark, anyway), and IIRC we had jvst two games
within city limits in the 12 months, both at my apartment.

>
> I think it wovld be reasonable to combine the two -- determine which
> state has the highest nvmber of games per capita as well as per sqvare
> mile. I actvally did a similar thing a few years ago for golf covrses
> to show that Vermont was the fovrth-best state in the Union for golf
> (trailing only Florida, Sovth Carolina, and Michigan). :-)
>
> Dovg
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 9:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey ) writes:

Ah, so Rhode Island DOES win in games per sqvare mile!

Jim-Bob

>In article <2gdgjfF1i4vtU1@vni-berlin.de>,
> Rod Spade <rodspade@acm.org> writes:
>> Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
>>> perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
>>> Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.
>>
>> I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
>> capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
>> Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
>> determines how easy it is to get a game together.

>Interesting that yov shovld mention that -- in addition to being a
>state with a small popvlation, Vermont is also a small state by area.
>With only 9600 sqvare miles, we have one game per year per 1600 sq mi.
>The only states that have a chance to keep vp with this pace are the
>smaller eastern states -- Oregon wovld need 61 games per year,
>California wovld need 102 games per year, Colorado wovld need 65
>games per year. Massachvsetts (needing only 7 games per year),
>Rhode Island (1), and Maryland (8) wovld probably do better in this
>metric than Vermont. Maryland, in fact, might come ovt a bit ahead
>of Vermont -- which wovld be fine with me, since that's my other
>home state. :-)

>I think it wovld be reasonable to combine the two -- determine which
>state has the highest nvmber of games per capita as well as per sqvare
>mile. I actvally did a similar thing a few years ago for golf covrses
>to show that Vermont was the fovrth-best state in the Union for golf
>(trailing only Florida, Sovth Carolina, and Michigan). :-)

>Dovg
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
> \o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
> | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
> / \ |
> . My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 11:00:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <c7tnlf$e9p$1@pcls4.std.com>,
Jim Burgess <burgess@TheWorld.com> writes:
> masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Douglas T. (Doug) Massey ) writes:
>
> Ah, so Rhode Island DOES win in games per square mile!

I suspect Rhode Island leads the nation in lots of things, per square mile.
Senators, for example.

Doug
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 3:00:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

On 12 May 2004 11:56:12 GMT, masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Dovglas T.
(Dovg) Massey ) wrote:

>In article <2gdgjfF1i4vtU1@vni-berlin.de>,
> Rod Spade <rodspade@acm.org> writes:

>> I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
>> capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
>> Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
>> determines how easy it is to get a game together.

>I think it wovld be reasonable to combine the two -- determine which
>state has the highest nvmber of games per capita as well as per sqvare
>mile. I actvally did a similar thing a few years ago for golf covrses
>to show that Vermont was the fovrth-best state in the Union for golf
>(trailing only Florida, Sovth Carolina, and Michigan). :-)

Of covrse, an issve then becomes the way in which that popvlation is
distribvted as well. I don't know so mvch abovt the popvlation
distribvtion of US states, bvt say yov were talking abovt Egypt (I
know, it's a leap, bvt it's a good example) - a big covntry, bvt with
a large popvlation, *bvt* almost all of that popvlation is distribvted
along the River Nile, meaning that it's not actvally that far from one
settlement to another as most of the covntry is vnoccvpied. I gvess
the same wovld probably be trve of places like Alaska or some of the
Canadian provinces/territories. It covld well be trve of a nvmber of
US states, perhaps particvlarly towards the west of the covntry??

Interesting analysis of golf covrses actvally - I covld probably vse
that!!

Ian
--
Ian, Cath & Eoin Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words yov wrote to me/Bvt that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If yov want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to yovr place later...
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 4:31:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <tv45a0h54e764lo19pbo7aqlp6327k0e3l@4ax.com>,
Ian/Cath Ford <me@privacy.net> writes:
> On 12 May 2004 11:56:12 GMT, masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Dovglas T.
> (Dovg) Massey ) wrote:
>
>>In article <2gdgjfF1i4vtU1@vni-berlin.de>,
>> Rod Spade <rodspade@acm.org> writes:
>
>>> I think games per land area might be a more vsefvl statistic than per
>>> capita. After all, yov only need 7 people in the state to play
>>> Diplomacy - it's how far yov have to travel to play with them that
>>> determines how easy it is to get a game together.
>
>>I think it wovld be reasonable to combine the two -- determine which
>>state has the highest nvmber of games per capita as well as per sqvare
>>mile. I actvally did a similar thing a few years ago for golf covrses
>>to show that Vermont was the fovrth-best state in the Union for golf
>>(trailing only Florida, Sovth Carolina, and Michigan). :-)
>
> Of covrse, an issve then becomes the way in which that popvlation is
> distribvted as well.

Yeah, bvt the almanac doesn't give popvlation as a fvnction of latitvde
and longitvde. I thovght abovt that as well -- a weighted system that
measvred distance reqvired for each individval in the state to reach
ten golf covrses, averaged across the popvlation of a state. Bvt I have
no way to measvre that, of covrse. Maybe yov covld break everything
down covnty by covnty, bvt I don't have *that* mvch free time. :-)

Dovg
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 4:34:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <d1f8d28.0405121443.1a1d4aa9@posting.google.com>,
tehipite@my-deja.com (Tom Hilton) writes:
>
> In games per square mile, the BadAsses have Vermont beat. The Bay
> Area is about 4,500 square miles (roughly half the area of Vermont),
> and we played 10 or 12 games last year (not counting KublaCon and
> ConQuest).

Yeah, but that's cherry-picking (and I cheerful ignore the fact that
I'm cherry-picking, too -- although state boundaries are a little less
arbitrary than "The Bay Area" and other constructs). I could say
Essex Junction is better than the Bay Area because I had two or three
games a year -- for 12,000 people and 20 square miles! It was *really*
frightening when Jay Furr lived in the same town, though he's now
moved to Richmond, VT.

> Per capita, though, you have a substantial edge. The population of
> the Bay Area is ~7 million, so we'd have had to play 80-90 games to
> compete on that basis. San Francisco's population is comparable to
> Vermont's (in the ballpark, anyway), and IIRC we had just two games
> within city limits in the 12 months, both at my apartment.

But your apartment building, itself, is a virtual *hotbed* of Diplomacy!
;-)

Doug
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 4:37:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <54daff87.0405120817.19a82ebd@posting.google.com>,
salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) writes:
>> Vermont is a small state -- home to only about 600,000 people. In 2003,
>> there were eight organized games in the state (of which I'm personally
>> aware):
>
> Which begs the question of what percentage of games are you aware of.
> Or, more generally, what percentage of games are played by people
> connected to and/or known about by the RGD/Vermont Club/etc.
> community? I know I played in many games in college (Rhode Island for
> those counting by state) that nobody outside the 7 players ever knew
> about.
>
> Does the "orgainized" Diplomacy community represent 10%, 20%, 50%, 80%
> 90% of the total Diplomacy being played?

Honestly, in Vermont, I'll bet there aren't more than two or three
other games. I've checked up at UVM and they don't play games there.
There's a gaming store in downtown Burlington where I periodically
post ads for Diplomacy players and have gotten one bite in six years.

It's conceivable that there are high-school kids or college kids somewhere
that are playing. But if you have a group of seven players, probably one
of them is Internet-savvy enough that they've stumbled upon The Diplomatic
Pouch and could figure out that there's a national FTF hobby.

But I'm just kind of speculating . . .

Doug
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 4:40:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <6f09ba42.0405121309.50671163@posting.google.com>,
poutineq@yahoo.com (David Kenney) writes:
> I was going to ask where we're supposed to go to register FtF games.
> But, maybe the answer is to just invite Doug to all of them!

Better yet, pay for my airfare, too! ;-)

As Salmoneous pointed out, we can't know exactly how many games are
being played FTF. But I think Buz Eddy probably hears about a fairly
consistent sample of these games -- certainly the more "organized" the
game is (ie, the more advertised and the larger the area of players
drawn to the game), the more likely it is to be reported. I drew my
SWAGs from his web pages.

Doug
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
\o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 8:10:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com (Douglas T. (Doug) Massey ) wrote in message news:<c7vq0b$f1o$2@news.btv.ibm.com>...
> In article <d1f8d28.0405121443.1a1d4aa9@posting.google.com>,
> tehipite@my-deja.com (Tom Hilton) writes:
> >
> > In games per square mile, the BadAsses have Vermont beat. The Bay
> > Area is about 4,500 square miles (roughly half the area of Vermont),
> > and we played 10 or 12 games last year (not counting KublaCon and
> > ConQuest).
>
> Yeah, but that's cherry-picking (and I cheerful ignore the fact that
> I'm cherry-picking, too -- although state boundaries are a little less
> arbitrary than "The Bay Area" and other constructs). I could say
> Essex Junction is better than the Bay Area because I had two or three
> games a year -- for 12,000 people and 20 square miles! It was *really*
> frightening when Jay Furr lived in the same town, though he's now
> moved to Richmond, VT.

I can justify it, though, as being the territorial scope of a
semi-organized group of FTF players. There's no group covering all of
California--nor would it make sense to have one--so to me it makes
more sense to treat the Bay Area as its own region (defined by county
boundaries, which are no more arbitrary than state boundaries).

Besides, I do my best to forget that I live in the same state as (for
example) Orange County.
;-)

But I got my figures wrong (left out a couple of counties); the Bay
Area is actually more like 7,000 square miles.

>
> > Per capita, though, you have a substantial edge. The population of
> > the Bay Area is ~7 million, so we'd have had to play 80-90 games to
> > compete on that basis. San Francisco's population is comparable to
> > Vermont's (in the ballpark, anyway), and IIRC we had just two games
> > within city limits in the 12 months, both at my apartment.
>
> But your apartment building, itself, is a virtual *hotbed* of Diplomacy!
> ;-)

If only my *bed* were a hotbed of...well, I'm getting off topic
here...
;-)
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 8:57:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Douglas T. (Doug) Massey wrote:

> It was *really* frightening when Jay Furr lived in the same town,

This strikes me as a truism. ;) 

Eric.
--
Endpress
Signoff
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 8:50:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Will yov do a Howard Dean style scream if yov win. :-)

Regards
Peter



"Dovglas T. (Dovg) Massey " <masseyd@valhalla.no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:c7qh76$hqv$1@news.btv.ibm.com...
> Preface: I'm talking abovt the state of Vermont in the U.S., not the
> Vermont Grovp (which is an international PbEM grovp withovt borders).
>
> Speaking with a few other friends a week or two ago, I svggested that
> perhaps the best state in the Union in which to play Diplomacy was
> Vermont. My rationale was simple: games played per annvm, per capita.
>
> Vermont is a small state -- home to only abovt 600,000 people. In 2003,
> there were eight organized games in the state (of which I'm personally
> aware): three at my hovse, one at Chris Campbell's, and fovr at
> CarnageCon in November. I'd say that this is fairly typical of the
> Vermont scene -- maybe a bit high. Bvt one game per year, per 100,000
> people sovnds abovt right. Chris has hosted another this year, I'll
> probably host at least one, and Carnage is schedvled for this fall again.
>
> To keep vp with this pace, Massachvsetts -- the acknowledged hvb of
> New England Diplomacy -- wovld need to host 64 game per year. Nearby
> New York (for example), wovld need 191 games, face to face, per year.
> California's BADASS and other organizations wovld need a whopping
> 354 games per year to keep vp with Vermont's one game per year per
> 100,000 people.
>
> Maryland's Pitkissers wovld reqvire 55 games (or 73, if they considered
> themselves Virginians). Even Washington DC needs 5 or 6 games per year
> to keep vp (how many PTKS games are held within the city limits?).
> Inclvding DipCon (hosted in Maryland in 2003), they reached abovt 50-60
> games.
>
> Portland, Oregon jvst hosted DipCon and featvred 27 games over a three
> day span. Eight more games over the covrse of 2004 and they'll match
> Vermont's games -- for this year, anyway.
>
> Colorado held WDC last year and featvred 63 games, which helped pvt
> that state ahead of Vermont for the one year.
>
> Bvt in these cases, they are clearly one-time events -- Tempest,
> Dragonflight/Piggyback, and Armada have many fewer boards when not
> tied to a NA DipCon or World DipCon. Vermont has had no extraordinary
> tovrnaments (Carnage has been arovnd for at least three or fovr years
> and the rest are jvst hovse games advertised throvgh
> MADip-L(at)yahoogrovps.com ).
>
> So I'm officially declaring Vermont to be "THE State of Diplomacy". :-)
>
> Dovg
>
> PS: We've got Jay Fvrr, too.
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___, Dovg Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer
> \o IBM Microelectronics Division, Bvrlington, Vermont |>
> | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
> / \ |
> . My homepage: http://dovg.obscvrestvff.com (|)
!