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Finally a response from 3Com/Palm

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Anonymous
August 25, 2004 10:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)

Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
Linux and Grafitti II.

- - -

Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]

From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
To: support@palmone.com
Date: Today 06:43:02 pm

On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
> Dear Kai:
> Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is Jason and
> I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm Desktop
> software and Graffiti 2.
>
> I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
> compatible Palm Desktop software.

That is unfortunate. When will you have support?
>
> With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your concern
> regarding using Graffiti 2 to input 'T', 'L', and 'K' character.  I would
> like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence we
> cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.

That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
because
of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to write
very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful replacement.

What will you do?


--
kai
www.gamephreakz.com || www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com
kai at 3gproductions dot com

"friends don't let friends use windows xp"
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 7:13:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <10iqg88nn2lep6f@corp.supernews.com>, filesiteguy
<abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
> plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
> HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>
> Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
> Linux and Grafitti II.
>
> - - -
>
> Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]
>
> From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
> To: support@palmone.com
> Date: Today 06:43:02 pm
>
> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
> > Dear Kai:
> > Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is
Jason and
> > I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm Desktop
> > software and Graffiti 2.
> >
> > I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
> > compatible Palm Desktop software.
>
> That is unfortunate. When will you have support?
> >
> > With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your concern
> > regarding using Graffiti 2 to input ‘T’, ‘L’, and ‘K’
character.  I would
> > like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence we
> > cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.
>
> That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
> because
> of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
> product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to write
> very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful replacement.
>
> What will you do?

Kai, isn't it time you gave this up. You're not gaining any support here.

It's clear from every piece of marketing literature and every industry
review that PalmOne provides desktops for Mac and Windows. It was also
widely, very widely known that Graffiti would be dropped because of a
lawsuit by Xerox. There were tons of discussion and complaints about it.

So where does that leave you? You can ask for a Linux desktop and PalmOne
will record that as a feature request. You can install Graffitti on your
device for free. No one's stopping you.

So move on.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:46:58 -0700, filesiteguy wrote:

> Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
> plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
> HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)

I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
Outbreak XP can do that.

> Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
> Linux and Grafitti II.

Nope. Don't care at all.

[snip]


--
Derek

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:10:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:13:49 GMT, Guy Bannis wrote:

> In article <10iqg88nn2lep6f@corp.supernews.com>, filesiteguy
> <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
>> plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
>> HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>>
>> Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>> Linux and Grafitti II.
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]
>>
>> From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
>> To: support@palmone.com
>> Date: Today 06:43:02 pm
>>
>> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
>>> Dear Kai:
>>> Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is
> Jason and
>>> I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm Desktop
>>> software and Graffiti 2.
>>>
>>> I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
>>> compatible Palm Desktop software.
>>
>> That is unfortunate. When will you have support?
>>>
>>> With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your concern
>>> regarding using Graffiti 2 to input ‘T’, ‘L’, and ‘K’
> character.  I would
>>> like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence we
>>> cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.
>>
>> That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
>> because
>> of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
>> product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to write
>> very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful replacement.
>>
>> What will you do?
>
> Kai, isn't it time you gave this up. You're not gaining any support here.
>
> It's clear from every piece of marketing literature and every industry
> review that PalmOne provides desktops for Mac and Windows. It was also
> widely, very widely known that Graffiti would be dropped because of a
> lawsuit by Xerox. There were tons of discussion and complaints about it.
>
> So where does that leave you? You can ask for a Linux desktop and PalmOne
> will record that as a feature request. You can install Graffitti on your
> device for free. No one's stopping you.
>
> So move on.

Are you suggesting that it's somehow Kai's fault that he didn't read the
packaging or product information before buying the product? What's up with
that?

--
Derek

That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 7:01:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:13:49 GMT, guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:

>In article <10iqg88nn2lep6f@corp.supernews.com>, filesiteguy
><abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
>> plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
>> HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>>
>> Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>> Linux and Grafitti II.
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]
>>
>> From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
>> To: support@palmone.com
>> Date: Today 06:43:02 pm
>>
>> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
>> > Dear Kai:
>> > Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is
>Jason and
>> > I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm Desktop
>> > software and Graffiti 2.
>> >
>> > I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
>> > compatible Palm Desktop software.
>>
>> That is unfortunate. When will you have support?
>> >
>> > With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your concern
>> > regarding using Graffiti 2 to input ‘T’, ‘L’, and ‘K’
>character.  I would
>> > like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence we
>> > cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.
>>
>> That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
>> because
>> of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
>> product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to write
>> very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful replacement.
>>
>> What will you do?
>
>Kai, isn't it time you gave this up. You're not gaining any support here.
>
>It's clear from every piece of marketing literature and every industry
>review that PalmOne provides desktops for Mac and Windows. It was also
>widely, very widely known that Graffiti would be dropped because of a
>lawsuit by Xerox. There were tons of discussion and complaints about it.
>
>So where does that leave you? You can ask for a Linux desktop and PalmOne
>will record that as a feature request. You can install Graffitti on your
>device for free. No one's stopping you.
>
>So move on.

Yep. I mean, you *do* know about JPilot, the Linux desktop for Palm,
right?

http://www.jpilot.org/
--
Mike Koenecke
to e-mail, change domain to "alum.haverford.edu"
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 11:23:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Mike Koenecke wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:13:49 GMT, guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
>
>>In article <10iqg88nn2lep6f@corp.supernews.com>, filesiteguy
>><abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>
>>> Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me
>>> in plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't
>>> accept HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>>>
>>> Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>>> Linux and Grafitti II.
>>>
>>> - - -
>>>
>>> Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]
>>>
>>> From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
>>> To: support@palmone.com
>>> Date: Today 06:43:02 pm
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
>>> > Dear Kai:
>>> > Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is
>>Jason and
>>> > I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm
>>> > Desktop software and Graffiti 2.
>>> >
>>> > I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
>>> > compatible Palm Desktop software.
>>>
>>> That is unfortunate. When will you have support?
>>> >
>>> > With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your
>>> > concern regarding using Graffiti 2 to input ‘T’, ‘L’, and
>>> > ‘K’
>>character.  I would
>>> > like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence
>>> > we cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.
>>>
>>> That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
>>> because
>>> of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
>>> product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to
>>> write very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful
>>> replacement.
>>>
>>> What will you do?
>>
>>Kai, isn't it time you gave this up. You're not gaining any support here.
>>
>>It's clear from every piece of marketing literature and every industry
>>review that PalmOne provides desktops for Mac and Windows. It was also
>>widely, very widely known that Graffiti would be dropped because of a
>>lawsuit by Xerox. There were tons of discussion and complaints about it.
>>
>>So where does that leave you? You can ask for a Linux desktop and PalmOne
>>will record that as a feature request. You can install Graffitti on your
>>device for free. No one's stopping you.
>>
>>So move on.
>
> Yep. I mean, you *do* know about JPilot, the Linux desktop for Palm,
> right?
>

and kpilot... and gnomepilot ...

> http://www.jpilot.org/
> --
> Mike Koenecke
> to e-mail, change domain to "alum.haverford.edu"
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:12:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
<URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:


> I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
> present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
> Outbreak XP can do that.

That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
email anyway. I costs three times as much to receive it and is a security
risk.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

** Would you like to learn to post effectively? **
** http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post **
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:12:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) rose quietly and spake the following:

> In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
> <URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>
>> I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
>> present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
>> Outbreak XP can do that.
>
> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
> email anyway. I costs three times as much to receive it and is a security
> risk.

It's not irrelevant. It's realistic.

I share the OP's distaste for HTML e-mail, as do probably the majority of
us here in this newsgruop. But in the "real world," we're in the minority
who actually care. No, it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is.

The rest of the world doesn't care that we don't like HTML mail. They're
going to send it because most people think it looks "cool" and because it
gets people's attentions.

I used to protest it vigorously. All it did was make more work for me.
Nobody who was sending the messages cared.

--
Derek

It hurts to admit when you make mistakes.
But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:12:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
> The rest of the world doesn't care that we don't like HTML mail.
> They're going to send it because most people think it looks "cool"
> and because it gets people's attentions.

On the mail servers I administer, it gets the attention of the spam filter,
which immediately assigns HTML email an 80% spam probability, before
adjusting for other factors. That's far from an uncommon set-up.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:12:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Arthur Hagen rose quietly and spake the following:

> Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>>
>> The rest of the world doesn't care that we don't like HTML mail.
>> They're going to send it because most people think it looks "cool"
>> and because it gets people's attentions.
>
> On the mail servers I administer, it gets the attention of the spam filter,
> which immediately assigns HTML email an 80% spam probability, before
> adjusting for other factors. That's far from an uncommon set-up.

No doubt. Unfortunately, that's because 90 percent of the HTML email is
actually spam.

--
Derek

If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 7:07:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:46:58 -0700, filesiteguy <abuse@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

>Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
>plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
>HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)

Maybe you could use one of those pipe text utilities that strip out
the HTML markup...? I agree it's a pain, but it would work. If you
can't find anything, surely you could roll your own with awk/perl?

Me, I just read the text among the HTML markup, but again I don't
enjoy doing so. Or I use Total Commander (www.ghisler.com) (for
Microsoft Windows, no Linux version yet - but similar to Midnight
Commander) comes with Lister, which strips out the HTML while
viewing...

>Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>Linux and Grafitti II.

Interesting. Please see my remarks below...

>- - -
>
>Re: palmOne Support [Case ID #: 280012]
>
>From: Kai <kai@3productions>  (3gProductions)
>To: support@palmone.com
>Date: Today 06:43:02 pm
>
>On Wednesday 25 August 2004 08:22 am, you wrote:
>> Dear Kai:
>> Thank you for contacting palmOne™ Technical Support.  My name is Jason and
>> I am responding to your inquiry regarding Linux OS compatible Palm Desktop
>> software and Graffiti 2.
>>
>> I am extremely sorry to inform that as of now we do not have Linux OS
>> compatible Palm Desktop software.
>
>That is unfortunate. When will you have support?

There is already software available for use with Linux and Palm - it
may not be /officially/ supported, I don't know. But I've heard that
it works well enough without that official support.

>> With regard to your inquiry regarding Graffiti2; I understand your concern
>> regarding using Graffiti 2 to input ‘T’, ‘L’, and ‘K’ character.  I would
>> like to inform you that Graffiti 2 is a ROM built application; hence we
>> cannot uninstall the application and restore Graffiti 1.
>
>That is pathetic!!! I bought the Palm (over a Windows Embedded device)
>because
>of my familiarity with grafitti. I was not aware and was not told in the
>product literature that grafitti was no longer supported. I used to write
>very fast with grafitti and am now slowed down by this awful replacement.

Maybe
http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/archives/200408...
will help then.

What specifically made you decide to crosspost to alt.linux?

Hope this helps!
_______________________
Michael B. Johnson
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 3:08:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <ck4vi05f0b2i8m8oog95afblffoscdp0er@4ax.com>,
mjohnson@veribox.net wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:46:58 -0700, filesiteguy <abuse@127.0.0.1>
> wrote:
>
> >Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
> >plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
> >HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>
> Maybe you could use one of those pipe text utilities that strip out
> the HTML markup...? I agree it's a pain, but it would work. If you
> can't find anything, surely you could roll your own with awk/perl?

Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 3:34:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <ant271007868dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>,
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:

> In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
> <URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>
> > I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
> > present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
> > Outbreak XP can do that.
>
> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
> email anyway. I costs three times as much to receive it and is a security
> risk.

I am a board member of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility.
A few years ago, a fellow board member's email was always html. My
Eudora mail program was set to interpret it, so I did not realize he was
sending me html until one of his emails appeared with the type in a
bizarre color. When I asked him to knock it off, he discovered that he
had no control over this. I found out later that AOL version 6
unconditionally produced html. They must have thought better of it in
their next version, because it became then a user option.

I often bitch to well-meaning environmental organizations that love to
punctuate every paragraph with a pretty picture. I try to explain to
them that it is a minor annoyance to me, with my DSL access and must be
painful to people with a dial-up. It usually falls on deaf ears. A few
do have a subscription preference to receive text, but most of them
don't.

Herb

--
To send me email, replace deadspam.com by acm.org
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 3:34:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Herbert Kanner <kanner@deadspam.com> wrote:
>
> I often bitch to well-meaning environmental organizations that love to
> punctuate every paragraph with a pretty picture. I try to explain to
> them that it is a minor annoyance to me, with my DSL access and must
> be painful to people with a dial-up. It usually falls on deaf ears.
> A few do have a subscription preference to receive text, but most of
> them don't.

What astonishes me is when people attach clip-art from the standard
Microsoft clip-art libraries. And then send the email out to hundreds of
recepients. Without sending a test email to themselves first. Without
realising that each of the tiny clips they used actually is 500k-1MB in size
whether scaled down or not. And finally, complaining to the poor mail
server people when the email system breaks down or it takes hours for all
the gigabytes of email to be delivered.

It's sad when you have to blacklist email from the office of the CEO or CTO
because you can't afford to miss other important mail.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 1:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
<URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:

>
> Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.

I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
that is such a dangerous idea?


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 1:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

> In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>
> I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
> that is such a dangerous idea?
>
>
Call me stupid but what's so dangerous about opening suspicious mail on a
unix system as a user ?
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 1:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

webhead wrote:

> Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
>
>> In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>>
>> I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
>> that is such a dangerous idea?
>>
>>
> Call me stupid but what's so dangerous about opening suspicious mail on a
> unix system as a user ?

Do you not value the data you have stored as a user?
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 5:32:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <sGYXc.228171$HV5.11791472@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, webhead
<URL:mailto:webhead@pandora.be> wrote:

> Call me stupid but what's so dangerous about opening suspicious mail on a
> unix system as a user ?

I have no idea. I was under the impression that the OP meant under a
BillyGoat OS.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 9:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Matt_left_coast said on 28.08.04:

> Do you not value the data you have stored as a user?

Sure, but how does that interfere with reading HTML mails as plaintext,
manually disregarding the tags?

Chris
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 11:54:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Guy Bannis wrote:


>
> Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.


If you're going to do that, then why not just use Outlook Explorer, in
Windows?
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 3:36:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) <me8@privacy.net> wrote:

> In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
> <URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>
> > I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
> > present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
> > Outbreak XP can do that.
>
> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
> email anyway.

They aren't actually web pages, they're just markup. Markup is not
restricted to web pages.

(Note that I share the disdain for HTML email, but even so...)

> I costs three times as much to receive it

That's a given, but accepting a single HTML email is 'cheaper' than
sending five 'back and forth emails' in order to get one email in plain
text.

> and is a security risk.

Only if the email client you are using turns it into a security risk. A
decent client will not force you to render the markup.

-zoara-


--
Sig wanted. Reward offered.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 3:36:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

zoara rose quietly and spake the following:

> Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
>> <URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
>>> present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
>>> Outbreak XP can do that.
>>
>> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
>> email anyway.
>
> They aren't actually web pages, they're just markup. Markup is not
> restricted to web pages.
>
> (Note that I share the disdain for HTML email, but even so...)
>
>> I costs three times as much to receive it
>
> That's a given, but accepting a single HTML email is 'cheaper' than
> sending five 'back and forth emails' in order to get one email in plain
> text.
>
>> and is a security risk.
>
> Only if the email client you are using turns it into a security risk. A
> decent client will not force you to render the markup.

And sometimes, a not-so-decent client will let you choose not to render.

For those of us required for one reason or another to use Outlook 2000
(SP3), 2002 or 2003, I highly recommend Slovak Technologies "Attachment
options". It adds a tab in the options menu that lets you control which
attachments you receive.

But, more importantly for me, it also adds an option to easily set Outlook
to show all mail as plain text.

--
Derek

"Marriage isn't supposed to make you happy -
it's supposed to make you married." -- Frank Pittman
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 7:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>
>Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>Linux and Grafitti II.

Look, it's historically been the case that the "community" (the linux
community, that is) writes applications (not just for palm, but for almost
everything), and this has been so; As others mentioned, there already are
community-written applications for palm.

As for Grafitti, you can still install the old grafitti. it's no big deal.
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 10:28:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <ant2808300b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
(AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:

> In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>
> I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
> that is such a dangerous idea?

Hey, I use a Mac!

But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an email
response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
viruses and worms?

Yeah, I know what's out there in the Windows world. It seems I apply
patches to my Windows system every week. But it's not likely that PalmOne
mail that is a response to a support request would be "dangerous."
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 10:28:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:28:53 +0000, Guy Bannis wrote:

> In article <ant2808300b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
> (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>>
>> I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand
>> why that is such a dangerous idea?
>
> Hey, I use a Mac!
>
> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an
> email response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife
> with viruses and worms?

Back in the '80s Verbatim sent out a (very large) batch of "blank",
formatted floppies to retail stores that had a boot sector virus on them.

While I was working at Borland we sent out a bunch of programming training
videos that had hardcore porn at the end of them.

Content from anywhere can be dangerous. It doesn't matter if it's an
established company.

(JFTR: I'm not suggesting that porn is dangerous)

--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 1:26:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Guy Bannis scratched out in the sand


> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an email
> response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
> viruses and worms?

Never know.

At work where I'm forced to use expee, I have the registry setting in
Outlook to convert all HTML email to plain text before opening it.

As for trusted sources, I recall it was my CEO who first opened the "I Love
You" email from one of our most trusted vendors back in '99 or '00.

Four hours of downtime later...

--
kai - kai at 3gproductions dot com
www.gamephreakz.com || www.filesite.org
"friends don't let friends use windows xp"
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 2:11:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <pan.2004.08.30.21.37.23.746628@you.now>, "Ivan Marsh"
<annoyed@you.now> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:28:53 +0000, Guy Bannis wrote:
>
> > In article <ant2808300b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
> > (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
> >> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
> >>
> >> I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand
> >> why that is such a dangerous idea?
> >
> > Hey, I use a Mac!
> >
> > But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an
> > email response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife
> > with viruses and worms?
>
> Back in the '80s Verbatim sent out a (very large) batch of "blank",
> formatted floppies to retail stores that had a boot sector virus on them.
>
> While I was working at Borland we sent out a bunch of programming training
> videos that had hardcore porn at the end of them.
>
> Content from anywhere can be dangerous. It doesn't matter if it's an
> established company.

"Can be dangerous" doesn't mean avoiding all HTML mail and labelling all
HTML mail "dangerous."
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 2:11:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> "Can be dangerous" doesn't mean avoiding all HTML mail and labelling
> all HTML mail "dangerous."

No, but it means making that determination *before* running it through a
parser capable of write and execute operations.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In <ch0fvs$n77$1@cauldron.broomstick.com>, Arthur Hagen:

[Snip...]

> No, but it means making that determination *before* running it through a
> parser capable of write and execute operations.

It astonishes me how few microsmurfs even begin to comprehend this. We are
still seeing viruses and worms spread because the dingbats can't keep this
Pavlovian click'n drool response in check, or see beyond their pigsty.

Corporations and individuals who stupidly infest the net with this malware
(like Outhouse Excess and Internet Exploiter) should be taken out back and
shot. That, or clean up the unholy messes they deliberately make.

--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:54:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

On 30-Aug-2004, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> Flushed this thought from his
brain to the screen::

> While I was working at Borland we sent out a bunch of programming training
> videos that had hardcore porn at the end of them.

Cool! Got any more copies of that video?? Um, I'd like to learn that Bore
Land software... <heavy breathing>

WyreNut

--
Quondo Omni Flunkus Mortati (When All Else Fails, Play Dead.)
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:56:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <guy-3008041131320001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
<URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:

> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail?

HTML email is rejected. Doesn't matter who it's from.

> That an email
> response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
> viruses and worms?

Probably not, but there is no excuse for a computer specialist company to so
blatantly defy all the standards. By blocking them, they *might* just learn
than it isn't acceptable. But then Porcine Aviation might apply. :-)


> Yeah, I know what's out there in the Windows world. It seems I apply
> patches to my Windows system every week. But it's not likely that PalmOne
> mail that is a response to a support request would be "dangerous."

Not the point. The point is educating them to desist.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 2:23:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:54:36 +0000, WyreNut wrote:


> On 30-Aug-2004, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> Flushed this thought from
> his brain to the screen::
>
>> While I was working at Borland we sent out a bunch of programming
>> training videos that had hardcore porn at the end of them.
>
> Cool! Got any more copies of that video?? Um, I'd like to learn that
> Bore Land software... <heavy breathing>
>
> WyreNut

We tried to preserve a few of them but there was, for obvious reasons, a
strong desire from the management to reaquire all of them and destroy
them.

They were SO funny.

"...this has been Philippe Kahn for Borland International's World of
Objects... Oh God, Oh God, YESSSSS!"


--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:51:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:46:58 -0700, filesiteguy wrote:
>
>
>>Well after five back-forth emails I finally convinced Palm to write me in
>>plain text. I cannot believe they couldn't figure out that I don't accept
>>HTML-email. (Like anybody would...)
>
>
> I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
> present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
> Outbreak XP can do that.
>
>
>>Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>>Linux and Grafitti II.
>
>
> Nope. Don't care at all.
>
> [snip]
>
>
Some of us might.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:52:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
> In article <1qx4olxliqjaa.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek
> <URL:mailto:news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I can't believe you aren't using a mail program that can automatically
>>present HTML messages as plain text without the embedded markup. Heck, even
>>Outbreak XP can do that.
>
>
> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
> email anyway. I costs three times as much to receive it and is a security
> risk.
>
Amen
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:59:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

webhead wrote:
> Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
>
>
>>In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>><URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>>
>>I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
>>that is such a dangerous idea?
>>
>>
>
> Call me stupid but what's so dangerous about opening suspicious mail on a
> unix system as a user ?

Nothin... LOL... unless the site of of potentially flashing colors could
provoke a some sort of psychotic rage :o p
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:01:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Sabineellen wrote:
>>Anyway, I thought y'all would like to see my response to them regarding
>>Linux and Grafitti II.
>
>
> Look, it's historically been the case that the "community" (the linux
> community, that is) writes applications (not just for palm, but for almost
> everything), and this has been so; As others mentioned, there already are
> community-written applications for palm.
>
> As for Grafitti, you can still install the old grafitti. it's no big deal.
>
>
>
I thinks that was the only answer needed.... LOL
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:07:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Guy Bannis wrote:
> In article <ant2808300b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
> (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>><URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>>
>>I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
>>that is such a dangerous idea?
>
>
> Hey, I use a Mac!
>
> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an email
> response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
> viruses and worms?
>
> Yeah, I know what's out there in the Windows world. It seems I apply
> patches to my Windows system every week. But it's not likely that PalmOne
> mail that is a response to a support request would be "dangerous."

Hey! I use a mac too :o )... Oh... wait... a Mac running Linux .. LOL...
either way... I think that the majority on this list are running Windoze
(If I'm not crossing to alt.linux) ... and the whole issue seems to be a
concern that they have... I'm not sure, but I would suspect - as was
mentioned earlier - it would be a client issue, regardless of the source
of the e-mail. ...

Did anyone bother to ask if the OP had a specific reason for requesting
text e-mail? Like... I dunno, maybe running pine on a 386 with 4 mb of
ram and a 8k connection ;o) LOL ...I dunno... this topic is getting old
with the implied inability or lack of competence on the part of the
OP.... most people with answers got them from asking questions
somewhere... this is where they appearantly chose to ask...
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

DL Sanders rose quietly and spake the following:

> Guy Bannis wrote:
>> In article <ant2808300b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
>> (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <guy-2708041609000001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>>><URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>>>
>>>I trust you say that tongue in cheek? Or do you not really understand why
>>>that is such a dangerous idea?
>>
>>
>> Hey, I use a Mac!
>>
>> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail? That an email
>> response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
>> viruses and worms?
>>
>> Yeah, I know what's out there in the Windows world. It seems I apply
>> patches to my Windows system every week. But it's not likely that PalmOne
>> mail that is a response to a support request would be "dangerous."
>
> Hey! I use a mac too :o )... Oh... wait... a Mac running Linux .. LOL...
> either way... I think that the majority on this list are running Windoze
> (If I'm not crossing to alt.linux) ... and the whole issue seems to be a
> concern that they have... I'm not sure, but I would suspect - as was
> mentioned earlier - it would be a client issue, regardless of the source
> of the e-mail. ...

It is a client issue. Except for those who pay per byte to read e-mail.

--
Derek

Before you bad mouth somebody for being "puritanical," keep in mind that
the Puritans believed that conception couldn't happen unless the woman was
pleasured in the process.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:12:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek wrote:

> It is a client issue. Except for those who pay per byte to read e-mail.
>

I thinks I agree - :o )
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 10:22:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <ant3107350b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
(AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:

> In article <guy-3008041131320001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>
> > But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail?
>
> HTML email is rejected. Doesn't matter who it's from.
>
> > That an email
> > response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
> > viruses and worms?
>
> Probably not, but there is no excuse for a computer specialist company to so
> blatantly defy all the standards. By blocking them, they *might* just learn
> than it isn't acceptable. But then Porcine Aviation might apply. :-)

What standards?! Face it guys, the corporate world is turning to HTML mail
for better looking communications with their customers.

I'm with you in preferring text, and only send text out myself, but the
times they are a'changing
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 10:22:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

Guy Bannis rose quietly and spake the following:

> In article <ant3107350b0dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
> (AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <guy-3008041131320001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>> But are you seriously saying that you never open HTML mail?
>>
>> HTML email is rejected. Doesn't matter who it's from.
>>
>>> That an email
>>> response from an established company such as PalmOne would be rife with
>>> viruses and worms?
>>
>> Probably not, but there is no excuse for a computer specialist company to so
>> blatantly defy all the standards. By blocking them, they *might* just learn
>> than it isn't acceptable. But then Porcine Aviation might apply. :-)
>
> What standards?! Face it guys, the corporate world is turning to HTML mail
> for better looking communications with their customers.

Those'd be the same standards Microsoft basically ignored for exchange,
e.g. signatures before quoted text, quoted text at bottom of message, etc.

> I'm with you in preferring text, and only send text out myself, but the
> times they are a'changing

"Standards" only remain such as long as everyone keeps using them. The
moment most people stop caring, they're no longer "standards."

--
Derek

If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great
disappointments.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:06:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:54:45 GMT, Baruch
<baruch01@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> wrote:
> Guy Bannis wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Easier yet: open the mail in your browser.
>
>
> If you're going to do that, then why not just use Outlook Explorer, in
> Windows?

I do that sometimes, but the browser is elinks or dillo (those are probably
available for Palm, but I haven't checked).


--
"Donna Hand of Ashburn, Va., waited five hours to see the casket and
spent about three minutes inside." --AP news story
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:05:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

DL Sanders <david.l.sanders@att.net> aszonygya:
:> That's irrelevant. They should not be sending web pages masquerading as
:> email anyway. I costs three times as much to receive it and is a security
:> risk.
:>
:Amen

Ditto.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <guy-3108041122420001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
<URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:

> What standards?! Face it guys, the corporate world is turning to HTML mail
> for better looking communications with their customers.

Then you are sadly deluded. The HTML attachment marks email at 95%
probability spam. It is useful at least to enable that filtering. The other
5% is newbie output, who need correcting, or AOL 6 output, whose users need
stringing up and/or educating.

> I'm with you in preferring text, and only send text out myself, but the
> times they are a'changing

Dumbing down will always result from such apathy. If you believe in HTML
having no place in email, then *tell* offenders about it. Educate them and
refuse their mail if they persist.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 5:05:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In alt.linux, Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) uttered these immortal words:

> If you believe in HTML
> having no place in email, then *tell* offenders about it. Educate them and
> refuse their mail if they persist.

Some of us don't have that luxury. It doesn't matter how many times I
complain to my business contacts about the use of HTML email they still
send it. If I block it they'll get angry that I'm ignoring them and I can't
see them accepting "I don't receive HTML email" as a valid justification
for doing so.

--
Andy.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:42:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <ant011107345dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
(AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:

> In article <guy-3108041122420001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>
> > What standards?! Face it guys, the corporate world is turning to HTML mail
> > for better looking communications with their customers.
>
> Then you are sadly deluded. The HTML attachment marks email at 95%
> probability spam. It is useful at least to enable that filtering. The other
> 5% is newbie output, who need correcting, or AOL 6 output, whose users need
> stringing up and/or educating.

Your sources for these stats are ...
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:42:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:42:22 GMT, guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) pecked
out:

>In article <ant011107345dVpW@office.ajlelectronics.co.uk>, "Andy Luckman
>(AJL Electronics)" <me8@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <guy-3108041122420001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
>> <URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>> > What standards?! Face it guys, the corporate world is turning to HTML mail
>> > for better looking communications with their customers.

Actually I just got an email (.pdf) from our postmaster stating that
we will no longer be using HTML email and that all email shoudl be
plain text or rtf format. We have roughly 18,000 employees.

>>
>> Then you are sadly deluded. The HTML attachment marks email at 95%
>> probability spam. It is useful at least to enable that filtering. The other
>> 5% is newbie output, who need correcting, or AOL 6 output, whose users need
>> stringing up and/or educating.
>
>Your sources for these stats are ...

Don't know about Guy's stats source, but from my own experince, I'd
say he's right on the money.

kai
www.gamephreakz.com || www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org
kai at 3gproductions dot com

"friends don't let friends use windows xp"
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:42:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,alt.linux (More info?)

In article <guy-0109041242290001@192.168.1.103>, Guy Bannis
<URL:mailto:guy@ether.net> wrote:

> >
> > Then you are sadly deluded. The HTML attachment marks email at 95%
> > probability spam. It is useful at least to enable that filtering. The other
> > 5% is newbie output, who need correcting, or AOL 6 output, whose users need
> > stringing up and/or educating.
>
> Your sources for these stats are ...

Years of experience. Having up to 100 emails a day gives quite a good sample
to measure against.




--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
!