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Top gaming laptop

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August 18, 2008 3:18:20 AM

1_What is your budget?
Up to $3,500.00

2_What is the size of the notebook that you are considering?
17"

3_What screen resolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/display_resolution do you want?
1920x1200

4_Do you need a portable or desktop replacement laptop?
Desktop replacement

5_How much battery life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery do you need?
Not important.

6_Do you want to play games with your laptop? If so then please list the games that you want to with the settings that you want for these games. (Low,Medium or High)?
Crysis, Mass Effect, Call of Duty 4...

7_What other tasks do you want to do with your laptop? (Photo / Video editing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_editing , surfing the web, playing music, watching movies, Etc.)
Photo and video editing, and some animation (Photoshop, illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, Flash, Lightwave, Arkaos), HD video content production/playing

8_How much storage (H.D.D Capacity) do you need?
Around 400-500 GB

9_If you are considering specific sites to buy from, please post the links to them.
http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9262-ultimate-custom-lap...

10_How long do you want to keep your laptop?
Around 3 years

11_If you would like to mention some other things about purchasing your ideal laptop, post them.
I want a gaming pc, but it would also make a wonderful machine for my job. I'm a VJ/video productor. I use to plug the computer to video proyectors/signal distributors, and make/use HD video contents, so I need a lot of cpu/video processing. But I also travel a lot, so that's why I need a laptop instead a good desktop.

12_Please tell us about the brands that you prefer to buy from them and the brands that you don't like and explain the reasons.
I'm very interested in the Sager np9262, but I don't know neither the brand nor the store reputation.

13_What country do you live in?
Mexico City, Mexico.


Hi!
As I stated above, I need kinda the "ultimate laptop", both for working and gaming. But I live in Mexico City, and the only option we have is the Dell M1730, but price with dual gpu, 4gb ram and best processor goes beyond sanity (around 5k), almost 1000 usd more than in the USA.

So I was looking to buy the laptop in the USA, and noticed the Sager desktop replacement. But I have a few concerns about it:
-Does Sager is a good brand? Are they good quality and, overall, reliable computers? This is very important for me: I can go to the USA from time to time, mostly for business, but if the computer fails and I need to use warranty, that could be a major problem since I'm dependant of business travels to take the computer to service; otherwise, the trip to the USA to take the computer for service could easily force me to spend over 500 usd, and the fact that I might even have to go twice if the service takes too much.

So, I ask for your help about this issue. Are Sager computers reliable and worthy? Is XoticPC a good seller? What about service?

Also, if you have a suggestion about another reseller or another computer, it'd be very much appreciated.
And very important: If you know a store/brand that have international support (most precisely in Mexico), it could also be very useful (Asus have international support but no service centers in Mexico).

Thank you very much. Any help is really appreciated.

More about : top gaming laptop

August 18, 2008 4:01:22 AM

The Sager is a great choice, and would be the one I'd recommend for your application.
a b D Laptop
August 18, 2008 4:51:10 AM

Sager and XoticPC sell the exact same notebooks. XoticPC's will be cheaper, but I think Sager support is better. The notebooks they both sell are actually from a company named Clevo, which is renowned for making the best notebooks in the business, both in performance and reliability. The 9262 is your perfect choice laptop. You won't be disappointed.
Related resources
a c 244 D Laptop
August 18, 2008 6:17:44 AM

Thats right for that price definitely go for SAGER NP9262,the best laptop in the world :) 
August 18, 2008 5:16:49 PM

Contact me vis email for the best notebook you can get.


BTW:
Quote:
Sager and XoticPC sell the exact same notebooks. XoticPC's will be cheaper, but I think Sager support is better.

XoticPC does not build their Clevo/Sager system. They take your order like a middle-man and forward it to Sager to build, ship, support and warranty. You can call Sager direct and they will match the price of Xotic and save yourself some "middle-man" hassles.

The notebook industry as a whole would be better served if there was one unified brand and ordering/support/warranty structure for the Clevo systems in N. America like Sager themselves instead of all these middle men confusing the end user.
August 19, 2008 3:26:15 AM

I definitely support Killer Notebooks, I've had a great time with them. At least consider them as another option in addition to Sager. :p  More expensive, but with better customer support and a bunch of helpful mods.
August 20, 2008 7:06:29 PM

killernotebooks said:
To accentuate my point I made earlier... read this customer post: Little disappointed Xoticpc :\


The same can be said about every company whether they sell a box of nails or a loaf of bread. An occasional bad comment about a company is not unheard of and will only increase as they do more business. There is most likely more to the story than the 2 sentences he posted. You cant make everyone happy, and there are loads of whiney ass people out there.

And for the record, Ive never bought a laptop from Xotic. In fact my Sager actually came from PowerNotebooks. I have no issues sending a person to either of those resellers to buy a laptop.

Now lets talk about Killer Notebooks. Whats makes your laptops so great? I can buy a Sager 5796 from Xotic or Powernotebooks for around $2400 with a 3 year Sager warranty configured exactly the same as your comparable machine that runs close to $3300.

What are you doing to the laptop that warrants you charging an extra $900?

August 20, 2008 10:27:53 PM

Hahah, this seems like quite a common question. To sum it up briefly, he builds custom copper heatsinks and mods for the laptops, bundles a custom built notebook cooler (if we're talking about the Executioner), offers tweaked drivers and operating systems, along with some great customer service.

So it's kinda two different fields, Sager+resellers cater to the "budget-but-still-not-budget" gamers, while KN is more of an all out gaming notebook company, with mods, OC'ing and the whole deal.
August 21, 2008 2:39:08 PM

Well, first I would like to say that I said for this poster to contact me via email. There are other forums out there that are simple one big advertisement and I'm sure the Tom's Hardware Moderators don't want to see their forum devolve into the same. This is a place you can come for answers and real technical advice. That said, to answer your question; Killer Notebooks is custom built, modified and improved notebooks, in this persons case the global 1 year warranty with paid shipping both ways is probably a good thing.

My point was to inform that Xotic does not build their systems, in fact, you may not know this but neither does PowerNotebooks, the company you said you got your system from. These companies and any company that sells a computer branded "Sager", or uses the Sager numbering system is in fact built, shipped, supported, warranted by Sager.

Anyone looking for a system from Sager should buy it through Sager. Many people do not know the fact that most of the companies out there are just middle men. The bigger picture that people aren't seeing is that all these middlemen confuse and dilute the market. Here is an example where a person asks what kind of a HDD is in the system they are going to purchase, and is answered by a middle man that they get a Hitachi or Seagate in the system, two respected brands: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=205235 People see this and make decisions based on it and when someone gets a system neither of those two brands, or even a different known quality brand is used. It's confusing. The person, had they bought through Sager, called Sager directly could have avoided the problem instead of, "Ask this guy, no that guy, oh wait... I don't know." I don't know would actually have been better than just making something up in that case.

When I say, "All these resellers dilute the market", we all know the margins are tight on computer related stuff. Since I have shown that Sager is the ultimate company actually doing the work for these middle men, and you can see the middle men are selling the systems for less than Sager's advertised price, then you can also see that they are taking money away from Sager. Sager will match distributor pricing and obviously a company is better off with more money; service, warranty work, bringing new and more innovative products to market faster... all those things are accomplished with money. You see DELL as the undisputed leader in this market... I don't see DELL re branded as "D Tech", "Xtreme" or "Power Laptops", no, they are successful because a DELL is a DELL is a DELL. DELL DELL ALWAYS gets the newest GPU's and CPU's, it's just how it is. They do that with money and they do that with market share.

Isn't that what you and I want? The latest, most powerful technology we can get our hands on? How about better service and support because $200 or $300 out of every system sold through a middle man isn't being taken out of the coffers of the company that is really building and supporting the product? So when you say
Quote:

And for the record, Ive never bought a laptop from Xotic. In fact my Sager actually came from PowerNotebooks. I have no issues sending a person to either of those resellers to buy a laptop.
Shouldn't you really be sending people to Sager directly if that is what you want or ultimately are getting? Why would you recommend a company that you have never bought from or dealt with... especially after you have read this? If you're going to "send a person" somewhere for a notebook like this, send them right to the source... SAGER.[/i]

A unified notebook market for Clevo / Sager in the United States would be to everyone's best interest especially the consumer! If people would see that everyone with these systems here would benefit

What makes K|N so great you ask? I can talk 'till I'm blue in the face, but ultimately if you go to our site and read the independent reviews and read up on all the customizations and modifications we do, you can make your own decision.
August 21, 2008 6:39:19 PM

Quote:
Well, first I would like to say that I said for this poster to contact me via email. There are other forums out there that are simple one big advertisement and I'm sure the Tom's Hardware Moderators don't want to see their forum devolve into the same. This is a place you can come for answers and real technical advice. That said, to answer your question; Killer Notebooks is custom built, modified and improved notebooks, in this persons case the global 1 year warranty with paid shipping both ways is probably a good thing.


My thoughts as well. I dislike it when people use forums to give their company free advertising.

Quote:
Anyone looking for a system from Sager should buy it through Sager. Many people do not know the fact that most of the companies out there are just middle men. The bigger picture that people aren't seeing is that all these middlemen confuse and dilute the market. Here is an example where a person asks what kind of a HDD is in the system they are going to purchase, and is answered by a middle man that they get a Hitachi or Seagate in the system, two respected brands: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=205235 People see this and make decisions based on it and when someone gets a system neither of those two brands, or even a different known quality brand is used. It's confusing. The person, had they bought through Sager, called Sager directly could have avoided the problem instead of, "Ask this guy, no that guy, oh wait... I don't know." I don't know would actually have been better than just making something up in that case.


In this case the reseller did the wrong thing. But it is out of their hands since Sager is the one assembling the machines. I dont know exactly how Xotic and Powernotebooks do their laptops, but I was always under the assumption they received a pretty much bare chassis, only screen and mobo installed, from Sager and then added the appropriate processor, memory, hard drive, etc, the customer wants. But hey, Ive been wrong before.

Quote:
When I say, "All these resellers dilute the market", we all know the margins are tight on computer related stuff. Since I have shown that Sager is the ultimate company actually doing the work for these middle men, and you can see the middle men are selling the systems for less than Sager's advertised price, then you can also see that they are taking money away from Sager. Sager will match distributor pricing and obviously a company is better off with more money; service, warranty work, bringing new and more innovative products to market faster... all those things are accomplished with money. You see DELL as the undisputed leader in this market... I don't see DELL re branded as "D Tech", "Xtreme" or "Power Laptops", no, they are successful because a DELL is a DELL is a DELL. DELL DELL ALWAYS gets the newest GPU's and CPU's, it's just how it is. They do that with money and they do that with market share.


Lets talk about resellers. I work in the IT industry, resellers abound in the computer industry. Sager isnt the only one that has resellers out there. Cisco, HP, IBM, Lenovo, all use resellers. Even the mighty Dell has resellers. There is one in my hometown of 10k people for crying out loud. Ive checked their prices and they run a little lower than Dell. All the warranty work on these machines is handled by Dell. Pretty much the same arrangement Sager uses with their resellers. Dont tell me that resellers diluting the market is hurting the industry. Companies use resellers to stay competitive. And FYI, Sager is a reseller for Clevo for all intensive purposes. And arent you a reseller as well?

Quote:
Isn't that what you and I want? The latest, most powerful technology we can get our hands on? How about better service and support because $200 or $300 out of every system sold through a middle man isn't being taken out of the coffers of the company that is really building and supporting the product? So when you say: And for the record, Ive never bought a laptop from Xotic. In fact my Sager actually came from PowerNotebooks. I have no issues sending a person to either of those resellers to buy a laptop. Shouldn't you really be sending people to Sager directly if that is what you want or ultimately are getting? Why would you recommend a company that you have never bought from or dealt with... especially after you have read this? If you're going to "send a person" somewhere for a notebook like this, send them right to the source... SAGER.


Why should I send them to the source? So they can pay more? Now in the IT industry that I am in, and I needed 200 laptops, I would deal directly with Sager as I need direct factory support and high volume. If I called Sager today and said I needed 200 laptops I guarantee they would cut me a deal with $200-300 off of every machine. However for a friend that needs a laptop and needs to save a couple hundred Id send them to a reseller. They get the same product, same warranty for a lower price.

Quote:
A unified notebook market for Clevo / Sager in the United States would be to everyone's best interest especially the consumer! If people would see that everyone with these systems here would benefit


I have to disagree and agree with this statement. It would be for the customers best interest at some levels for support. It would be a disadvantage for the customer as Sager charges more for the same machine the resellers are offering. I also think it would hurt their market presence and market share because the resellers for all intensive purposes give them free advertising. Honestly if I could make money by offering a product, that other people sell for me, and only have to do occasional warranty work, Id do it in a heartbeat. Less overhead, less work, more money.

Quote:
What makes K|N so great you ask? I can talk 'till I'm blue in the face, but ultimately if you go to our site and read the independent reviews and read up on all the customizations and modifications we do, you can make your own decision.


Ive read the reviews. Ive looked at pretty much everything. For arguments sake lets get a factory Sager 5796 sitting next to a K|N Executioner MX. Equal base parts. You do whatever you want with the machine, by changing/modifying heatsinks, overclocking, drilling holes in chassis, "Turbo Boost", custom drivers, whatever, and at the end of day you'll be a little faster granted, but not $900 faster. I can probably get similar results from overclocking the video card and CPU. Ive looked at your "Turbo Boost", whatever it may be. If its software overclocking, trash it. Hardware overclocking yields better, more stable results. Claiming huge gains is fine, but I hardly consider 800 points in 3d Mark a huge gain. I do like your heatsink mod though. But its for a 7900 Nvidia mobile card. What are you using on the 8XXX's and 9XXX's? Also I doubt if it has as much of an effect on the machine as you would like. Sager has learned alot since the 9860, which I owned, and their thermal issues are pretty much a non-issue now. Also drilling holes in the case really isnt going to gave huge gains as heat rises. Im sure it helps, but thermo dynamics say heat rises and their is no real air flow in a laptop to remove heat. These laptops arent designed like a desktop with the ability to move large amounts of air. Thats why they use heatpipes and pair of fans on the 5796. The pipes move the heat from the cores to a fin array which has a fan with a shroud on it pushing air from the inlet on the bottom of the chassis over the heatpipes and fins. If you wanted to do something that will make a big difference, design a more efficient heatsink and fan setup for the laptop. Getting a triple 6mm heat pipe and a lower speed, higher volume fan would be pretty nifty.

Im not meaning to rag you on by any means. But when someone posts something like this:
Quote:
Contact me vis email for the best notebook you can get.
I have a tendency to think, "What the hell is this guy thinking?" Best is very subjective. I happen to consider the Sager 9262 the best laptop on the market if you want a gaming machine. However a 5796 is a far more affordable machine, and in alot of peoples minds, myself included, its the best because it offers a good price vs performance factor. And on a final note, I can purchase a Sager 9262 from Xotic for $3100 with SLIed 9800GTs with a 3 year factory warranty that will run circles around the Executioner MX that costs $3200......
August 21, 2008 8:19:12 PM

Quote:
Why should I send them to the source? So they can pay more?
As I said in my post, you can call Sager and they will match the price, so all you are doing is trimming the fat.
Quote:
I dont know exactly how Xotic and Powernotebooks do their laptops, but I was always under the assumption they received a pretty much bare chassis, only screen and mobo installed, from Sager and then added the appropriate processor, memory, hard drive, etc, the customer wants. But hey, Ive been wrong before.
Don't feel bad, how they are marketed you would naturally think that they were doing just what you said, but they are not. Sager does it all.

Quote:
I do like your heatsink mod though. But its for a 7900 Nvidia mobile card. What are you using on the 8XXX's and 9XXX's?

There was never a 7900 heatsink. The heat sink came into existance due to the heat of the 7950 GTX card. The pictures you see on this page are close to what the 8800 class HS looks like: http://www.killernotebooks.com/executioner_sr/executioner_sr_heatsink_mod.html. Along with the heat sink, the card heat casing itself is improved so the end user can take the entire card out without having to disassemble it.

The Northbridge chipset was a particular stumbling block for overclocking so that is modified too.

The case bottom is modified to increase airflow and the whole process is brought into synergistic harmony with a custom designed and built notebook cooler. The tests of the prototype cooler show 20 degrees drop in CPU, GPU and HD temps. It's really a 4 part, 5 phase process to bring it all together. If you're talking about over clocking, be it hardware of software, cooling i of paramount importance. I'm sure you will agree. You state that one could simply hardware overclock their components, but then cool them how? If you send over clocked components in to nVidia you're not getting a new card, they're going to tell you the card was modified out of spec and that's why it failed. PERIOD.
Quote:
Ive looked at your "Turbo Boost", whatever it may be. If its software overclocking, trash it. Hardware overclocking yields better, more stable results. Claiming huge gains is fine, but I hardly consider 800 points in 3d Mark a huge gain.
Well, I don't know about "trashing" anything that works. Your 800 point figure is right from my page. That is the Boost Button vs. a BIOS overclock, and the original figure is from a K|N to begin with. You can clearly see that increasing the multiplier alone (red) does not nearly equal the level of performance.

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Best is very subjective. And on a final note, I can purchase a Sager 9262 from Xotic for $3100 with SLIed 9800GTs with a 3 year factory warranty that will run circles around the Executioner MX that costs $3200......
Ok, let me get this straight you are saying you have a notebook from PowerNotebooks and never dealt with Xotic. Now you're recommending Xotic over PowerNotebooks??? Any reason for that we should know about? At the beginning of your post you were confused about who even built the notebooks to begin with, and clearly stated that aside from price (which we already covered Sager would price match their distributors) buying directly from the source would be better.
Quote:
It would be for the customers best interest at some levels for support.

What I said was if you are going to get a PowerNotebook, XoticPC or any one of the numerous other machines out there that are being resold... go directly to Sager to have them price match it. I think on that we agree according to what you posted. You say a 9262 would crush an Executioner or whatever, ummm why are we suddenly comparing two completely different classes of machines here? Why not say a Aston Martin can crush a Toyota Prius then? If you want to compare a 9262 then compare it to an Odachi, which is our entry into the World's fastest Notebook competition. That's what we got invited to due to our standings in the community and what we have done in the industry and that speaks for itself.
Quote:
Best is very subjective.
Not really. :sol: 
a b D Laptop
August 21, 2008 9:27:38 PM

Just wanted to interject a few things -

First, that page with the pictures of the modded heatsinks on them has no title...My first impression of the page was "Untitled Document" :non: 

Second, KillerNotebooks is right, it is unfair to use an 9262 to best an Executioner. A 5796 would be a proper comparison.

Third, I find that graph hard to believe. It's not formatted correctly. If it's being compared to anything, I don't know what the anything is, it starts at 0%. It should start at 100% being the control. This is basic stuff. I also find it hard do believe that this "turbo boost" actually made a 100% improvement in every area. That's absurd. There's no way that every benchmark came out to have the same result. Well, there is a way, but the likelihood of it happening is nil. Can we have real numbers, please?

Fourth, What have you done to the Northbridge cooling? You said it was modified for overclocking, but the pictures don't show any difference over the stock one. If I interpreted that wrong, sorry in advance.

Fifth, I also doubt that adding holes in the bottom of the case increases airflow much. The case already is a holy (lol) one, and without fans to move air past those holes...they aren't much good. The sinks will improve cooling quite a bit, but I'm skeptical on the 20C delta claim. There has to be something else in there, that's a delta achieved by aircooling modifications, namely, RPM increases.

Sixth, good work on those sinks, nice workmanship there :) 

Seventh, K|N isn't really a reseller since they modifiy the unit pretty nicely (whether it be any gain in performance or not, work is done), but they still are kindof. I don't know what you'd classify them as.

Eight, Thank you, K|N for not being another random computer company that just posts ads. I don't know if anyone else appreciates it, but when I see ads here it makes me want to write angry emails.

Ninth, w00t!
August 21, 2008 9:48:09 PM

First: I need to fix that title.

Second: :D 

Third: On the point of the graph. I can see the confusion.
The graph is stacked so that the increases over stock are measured.
So if 3DMarks increased 1,000 points (for argument sake) 1,000 points is the 100% of the bar. The Boost Button did the full 100%, and you can see the multiplier increase did "X" percentage of that.

I wanted something people could look at and quickly see the performance improvements OVER the multiplier stuff everyone else was pushing hard, now don't even mention. I think you want the actual data chart showing the numbers so you can see the numerical difference. I have it in a spread sheet and can dig that up and put it on there. WHAT IS IT NOT is increase over stock numbers. I can see where that can be confusing. I also want to mention that THEIR BIOS boost only works with Extreme processors. How does that help the common man? When you can buy a T9500 and get the performance of an x9000 or more, that's what I was shooting for.

To your fourth point, the Northbridge cooling. The stock cooler is used and modified. Send me a PM or email about it because I do not want to post the exact process on the forum.

To your fifth point. Those holes correspond to the fans on the custom notebook cooler. If you put your hand under both systems once you would change you mind. It makes a huge difference, if it didn't Clevo wouldn't have essentially copied the CPU hole idea and CPU heatsink and call it the "Extreme Edition" ;) 

Sixth. Thank you. I appreciate that, all I usually get is bashing. Glad to see someone say, "Hey man, I'm glad someone's pushing the envelope!"

Seventh: A-man brother.

Eighth: I think we're on the same page. We have enough Ad forums out there.

Ninth: Indeed :kaola: 
August 21, 2008 11:24:22 PM

Quote:
As I said in my post, you can call Sager and they will match the price, so all you are doing is trimming the fat.


Ill keep that in mind. I dont have a problem buying from the manufacturer as long as they are not getting over on me on price.

Quote:
Don't feel bad, how they are marketed you would naturally think that they were doing just what you said, but they are not. Sager does it all.


Nice, I didnt know that. Ill have to talk to Powernotebooks and Xotic about that when I do finally get around to ordering a laptop.


Quote:
There was never a 7900 heatsink. The heat sink came into existance due to the heat of the 7950 GTX card. The pictures you see on this page are close to what the 8800 class HS looks like: http://www.killernotebooks.com/executioner_sr/executioner_sr_heatsink_mod.html. Along with the heat sink, the card heat casing itself is improved so the end user can take the entire card out without having to disassemble it.


Maybe post a little more info on your page then so people know exactly what your marketing. I didnt mean the 7900 in particular, I was just generalizing the entire 7XXX mobile cards.

Quote:
The Northbridge chipset was a particular stumbling block for overclocking so that is modified too.


Looks pretty stock to me in those photos.... And Im comparing against bone stock pics from this page: http://www.xoticpc.com/8800m-installation-guide-sager-n...
Id like to see some new photos.

Quote:
The case bottom is modified to increase airflow and the whole process is brought into synergistic harmony with a custom designed and built notebook cooler. The tests of the prototype cooler show 20 degrees drop in CPU, GPU and HD temps. It's really a 4 part, 5 phase process to bring it all together. If you're talking about over clocking, be it hardware of software, cooling i of paramount importance. I'm sure you will agree. You state that one could simply hardware overclock their components, but then cool them how? If you send over clocked components in to nVidia you're not getting a new card, they're going to tell you the card was modified out of spec and that's why it failed. PERIOD.


See my above statement about your chassis mod for airflow. Anyone could drill some holes in the bottom (at the expense of their warranty no doubt) and set it on top of a nice Zalman laptop cooler. And I wouldnt be sending broken overclocked parts to Nvidia. Id be sending them to Sager, because they damn well better honor my warranty. But an individual, such as myself, wont go,"Gee I wonder how high I can turn this up?" and subsequently fry my hardware. I understand how overclocking works. I have a Conroe 6300 running at 3.2 GHZ in my desktop. Only reason I can do it, Zalman 9700 heatsink. I have gone up as high as 2.8 with the stock Intel heatsink with no issues what so ever. Overclocking isnt brain surgery unless you get into some crazy stuff like volt mods and such, which is far beyond my skill. My process for overclocking in this case involves looking at the stock temperature of the hardware, whether its a video card or a CPU, and trying not to increase the temperature to the point of failure. When you start getting lockups at boot when maxxing out the CPU, its time to step back the volts and mhz, get it stable, and then test. Same thing goes for your video card, when start seeing artifacts, back it down, and test it for stability. If you use your brain when your doing something like this, youll never burn something up. After all, Im not talking about trying to set world record.

Quote:
The case bottom is modified to increase airflow and the whole process is brought into synergistic harmony with a custom designed and built notebook cooler. The tests of the prototype cooler show 20 degrees drop in CPU, GPU and HD temps. It's really a 4 part, 5 phase process to bring it all together. If you're talking about over clocking, be it hardware of software, cooling i of paramount importance. I'm sure you will agree. You state that one could simply hardware overclock their components, but then cool them how? If you send over clocked components in to nVidia you're not getting a new card, they're going to tell you the card was modified out of spec and that's why it failed. PERIOD.


The case bottom isnt modified. You drilled some holes and set it on top of a notebook cooler. Hardly an innovation. You want to innovate? Create a new cooler and new bottom panels for the chassis to allow a larger cooler without increasing the overall bulk of the machine more than say 1/2" taller at the back edge.

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Well, I don't know about "trashing" anything that works. Your 800 point figure is right from my page. That is the Boost Button vs. a BIOS overclock, and the original figure is from a K|N to begin with. You can clearly see that increasing the multiplier alone (red) does not nearly equal the level of performance.
http://www.killernotebooks.com/executioner_srx/boost_button/images/Performance%20Improvement%202.png


What exactly is this "Boost" button? I a skeptic at heart. Make it a little more legit than a pic of a NoS bottle. Once again, if you doing something in software I call BS. Hardware overclocks are the real thing and give real performance numbers. And your graph? Horrible, doesnt really explain anything. As frozenlead said: "Can we have real numbers, please? "

Quote:
Ok, let me get this straight you are saying you have a notebook from PowerNotebooks and never dealt with Xotic. Now you're recommending Xotic over PowerNotebooks??? Any reason for that we should know about? At the beginning of your post you were confused about who even built the notebooks to begin with, and clearly stated that aside from price (which we already covered Sager would price match their distributors) buying directly from the source would be better.


I guess I should have been more specific. I bought from Powernotebooks. I have sent a few emails Xotics way for clarification on things about the machines. Xotic will probably get my business this next time as Justin has been more than helpful with anything Ive asked about. And really, who cares if Sager builds them or the reseller builds them on a Sager chassis. As long as Sager honors the factory warranty, whats the difference? As far as Sager matching prices, they didnt used to do that. Thats the biggest reason I suggest a reseller, like Xotic, as a place to buy a Sager. Now that Sager is right in the ballpark, I will certainly recommend people take a look at them for a place to buy.

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You say a 9262 would crush an Executioner or whatever, ummm why are we suddenly comparing two completely different classes of machines here? Why not say a Aston Martin can crush a Toyota Prius then? If you want to compare a 9262 then compare it to an Odachi, which is our entry into the World's fastest Notebook competition. That's what we got invited to due to our standings in the community and what we have done in the industry and that speaks for itself.


Congrats on the invite! The reason I made that statement is the fact your overpriced Executioner MX still cost more than a stock 9262. Cant dispute that. Im fairly certain your Odachi is far higher priced than a 9262 as you dont even list a price on your website.

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Best is very subjective. Not really.


In your mind your product may be the best. Why wouldnt it be? The general public, meh, probably think more along my lines.

Your minor performance increases dont amount to much in the real world. But I guess we all sit around running 3d Mark all day? What your bragging up is a 3-5 FPS advantage, hardly earth shattering and certainly not worth $900 more.

My other major sticking point is the fact your bragging up your laptops, with no good screen shotted test scores, no good pictures, and no real world testing. You make it sounds like its a voodoo science thing to get a little more performance out of a machine. Looks alot like smoke and mirrors.

Im not saying your doing something wrong. You probably have a great machine and great customer service. Most small shops do. Kudos on working on real solutions to issues with laptops. But you would do yourself a great deal more credit by being more open with your info and methodology.

BTW, way to dodge my reseller comment, the direct comparison between a stock 5796 and the Executioner, and twist my words around to discredit me slightly. Also, I edited the crap out of this before I hit submit. Your not worth a ban.
August 21, 2008 11:47:25 PM

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Maybe post a little more info on your page then so people know exactly what your marketing. I didnt mean the 7900 in particular, I was just generalizing the entire 7XXX mobile cards.
Good call.
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[Northbridge] Looks pretty stock to me in those photos....
Yes, that was the whole point of the mod to look as if stock. We take the stock sink and mod it on the bottom, the top remains the same.
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See my above statement about your chassis mod for airflow. Anyone could drill some holes in the bottom (at the expense of their warranty no doubt) and set it on top of a nice Zalman laptop cooler.
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The case bottom isnt modified.
Um, it's not modified???
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You want to innovate? Create a new cooler and new bottom panels for the chassis to allow a larger cooler without increasing the overall bulk of the machine more than say 1/2" taller at the back edge.
We already did that, we have a custom designed and built notebook cooler to which Zalmon is no comparison. The airflow is channeled and directed right where needed at 24-28 CFM from 60 and 80mm Vantec Stealth case fans. Drilling holes without the heatsinks being modded is a waste of time for sure. Ours is still warranted.
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What exactly is this "Boost" button? I a skeptic at heart.
Unsolicited customer post on the Boost Button. http://www.guruofgaming.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2178
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Your minor performance increases dont amount to much in the real world.

LOL 9,400 3DMarks to 10,700... 14%??? Ok, I'll call nVidia who is saying the 9800 GTX will be 20-25% greater performance than the 8800 GTX and tell them they wasted their time and money.
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My other major sticking point is the fact your bragging up your laptops, with no good screen shotted test scores, no good pictures, and no real world testing.
Ok, Um let me tell you this story. There was a post over at NBR about performance screen shots on the system whatever they call the Executioner SRX, I posted the EXACT same format as Xotic to the letter, and it was removed. It showed my test scores 18% higher than his. So it's kind of a self fulfilling prophesy over there as far as what you get to se and obviously base your opinion on.

I think of the three companies your talking about K|N is the ONLY one with INDEPENDENT reviews and tests.
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BTW, way to dodge my reseller comment and twist my words around to discredit me slightly. Also, I edited the crap out of this before I hit submit. Your not worth a ban.
??? How did I twist your words or dodge your reseller comment? Are you saying K|N is a reseller and so are these other two? They are middle men, they never touch the systems, that's been established. I do not get my chassis from Sager and I build, mod, support and warrant all of them myself. You flat out said there were benefits to Sager being the sole distributor of the systems, you listed one negative which was price which they match. If the negatives are removed all you are left with are positives are you not? How did I twist that?

I don't get it the part about the editing and ban. Does that mean you are angry or... well honestly I don't know. Where's the hostility coming from, "You're not worth a ban" bro what is that? Just relax man, we're just talking... obviously this goes a little deeper for you than it does for me. Let me see if I can make this situation better by just letting you post whatever you want and I'll just let it go at that. I'll just ignore it and answer other people's stuff. This thread became more about K|N than most threads on my own forum all because I said, "Email or PM me OP"







August 22, 2008 1:12:28 AM

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Yes, that was the whole point of the mod to look as if stock. We take the stock sink and mod it on the bottom, the top remains the same.


Thats cool. But why use a stock Al heatsink? Something like this would do alot better: http://www.enzotechnology.com/slf_1.htm and you direct air directly onto it with a fan like the Enzotech kit with nothing but a hole in the bottom of the chassis. More on this in a sec.

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The case bottom isnt modified. Um, it's not modified???


I dont consider taking a drill and boring 50 holes into the bottom a mod. Well I guess is it, but in the pics on your website, its kind of ghetto looking. This pic: http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/ogun228/P103011... Im guessing is the final polished version. Certainly looks better, but a hole saw and some mesh would look alot cleaner. You could do the same thing to cool the northbridge with the above heatsink I suggested.

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Unsolicited customer post on the Boost Button. http://www.guruofgaming.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2178


Software overclocking, meh. Id like to see that machine running at 2.97 Ghz full time with a hardware overclock. Using software only opens yourself up for failure in the long haul as programs can crash and become corrupted. Also a 370 Mhz OC isnt really all that spectacular with all the extra cooling work you guys have done under the hood.

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LOL 9,400 3DMarks to 10,700... 14%??? Ok, I'll call nVidia who is saying the 9800 GTX will be 20-25% greater performance than the 8800 GTX and tell them they wasted their time and money.


Again, looking at your site. You went from 9,942 to 10,712 which is 770 point or a 7.74% increase. If these numbers have changed, you should update your site.

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Ok, Um let me tell you this story. There was a post over at NBR about performance screen shots on the system whatever they call the Executioner SRX, I posted the EXACT same format as Xotic to the letter, and it was removed. It showed my test scores 18% higher than his. So it's kind of a self fulfilling prophesy over there as far as what you get to se and obviously base your opinion on.


That does suck and is one of the reasons I take what I read on the Net with a grain of salt. People are biased, without a doubt. Im more of a skeptic. I root for technology in general, but I want proof to back it up.

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I think of the three companies your talking about K|N is the ONLY one with INDEPENDENT reviews and tests.


This is my suggestion if you want a true apples to apples review. Im sure you have the ability to build up a bone stock Sager like a 5796. Send it and an Executioner to a reputable review site like Anandtech and let them go thru it with a fine tooth comb running any benchmark the want and they will do a truly unbiased review comparing the machines against each other. For what its worth Id also talk with [H]ard OCP as alot of people like they way they stress test in a hotbox and benchmark showing minimum, average, and max FPS. They will push a piece of hardware to the breaking point, and will overclock a stock machine against yours for a true performance review.

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How did I twist your words or dodge your reseller comment? Are you saying K|N is a reseller and so are these other two? They are middle men, they never touch the systems, that's been established. I do not get my chassis from Sager and I build, mod, support and warrant all of them myself. You flat out said there were benefits to Sager being the sole distributor of the systems, you listed one negative which was price which they match. If the negatives are removed all you are left with are positives are you not? How did I twist that?


"Ok, let me get this straight you are saying you have a notebook from PowerNotebooks and never dealt with Xotic. Now you're recommending Xotic over PowerNotebooks???" as well your general tone while writing the rest of your post. You are doing your best to disprove me and until your last post you really didnt show me anything to the contrary. As far as a negative goes, price is a deal breaker for most people. If Sager is selling at the same prices as the resellers, great! I didnt know they were until you enlightened me of that fact. Very cool, as most manufacturers will not do that.

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I don't get it the part about the editing and ban. Does that mean you are angry or... well honestly I don't know. Where's the hostility coming from, "You're not worth a ban" bro what is that? Just relax man, we're just talking... obviously this goes a little deeper for you than it does for me. Let me see if I can make this situation better by just letting you post whatever you want and I'll just let it go at that. I'll just ignore it and answer other people's stuff. This thread became more about K|N than most threads on my own forum all because I said, "Email or PM me OP"


No offense intended. But Ive seen plenty of so call "great" products that were nothing but vaporware. Companies saying that theyve created the second coming, and not having anything to prove kind of gets me on fire a little bit. And Im sorry for the extra advertising, lol, I never meant to take over the thread. Its the wonder of the internet, people can argue their opinions back and forth and nobody usually gets their feelings hurt.

Im not afraid to ask tough questions and make statements. People today are generally a bunch of politically correct pansies and will just go with whatever people feed them. I will call BS, and ask for proof. Sometimes Im not very nice about it. I work for the State of WI as a 1st and 2nd level tech. You should ask my boss about how I bitch about stuff at work like encryption (Safeboot vs Truecrypt, I want Truecrypt), FTP to mainframe (easy = good for the public), VPN and Citrix via cell cards & wireless implementation and training, hardware updates to get ready for Windows 7 as we are skipping Vista and the list goes on. Ive been told to chill out numerous times as I continually go against the grain, sometimes with success, sometimes not at all.

If your product is as good as people are saying, do something about it man! Get your website fixed up first of all. Get your current info and pics up there for all to see. Get some free pub out there by getting some reviews done that show you have a superior product. I never said you had a bad product. Your already starting with a great chassis from Sager, any changes can only really make it better.
August 22, 2008 1:26:00 AM

My friends, calm down :p 

For the benchmark thing, perhaps we can set up an impromptu test? If KN has good-to-go setup lying around, and Kaldor can agree to a good review of stock model with performance/benchmark numbers, maybe KN can run some benches and post pictures of the results?

As always though, keep in mind that there's a difference between still great and top of the line, and usually it's quite an expensive difference (ie. the Extreme edition processors). This goes for gaming laptops too *laughs* You may wonder why anybody would pay more, but there is a segment of the market that'll pay top dollar for the best, even if it's by a smaller margin than you would think. I vote for the benchmarking test. :D 

Or we all wait for the Fastest Notebook article to come out, and drink our tea/coffee/booze until then.
August 22, 2008 1:29:43 AM

Crap, Kaldor beat me to posting. XD

Btw, independent reviews of KN at Techware Labs, go search up "Killer Notebooks" and you'll get reviews of his Executioner, Executioner-SR, Uchigatana and Assassin.
August 22, 2008 1:38:35 AM

Personally... I think the Nagamaki is a better machine because of its features.

I love the Executioner and all, it has always been my favorite, I have put the most time and effort into it, but honestly when you add up the spec's of both systems; the Nagamaki just has more to offer. There is more to work with in the first place.

The Executioner used to have an optical drive you could swap out with a second HDD and do RAID, that has been gone for a while. No mobile quad core support like I said over at NBR before I was banned... that's garbage. The MB doesn't have voltage switching for RAM, no back lit kb, battery is 8 cell etc. etc. etc.

The ODM just isn't doing enough with the chassis. Yea, it's tried and true ans bulletproof but it hasn't substantially changed and progressed with the times.

Honestly, I'd rather push a system from a company that isn't so political too. There isn't going to be all the price games with this new system because everyone that offers it will have to build it themselves and can't undercut the market to death then say, "Oh that guy's ripping you off." Well, of course the price of a distributor built system with Toshiba hard drives and cheap-o RAM is going to be less! I have to pay a mark up on the chassis and video card you wouldn't believe. I get premium parts. It's easy for my competition to beat the drum of "price, price, price" because they have them mass produced and sent out... price is all they have. I'm actually punished for not selling out and people play into that non-sense as if they knew the margins of everyone in the game.

Yea TechWareLabs, and where is my review of the Executioner SRX that was due in April?!?!? It isn't even relevant anymore!
a b D Laptop
August 22, 2008 3:41:39 AM

I must have missed the notebook cooler part, that explains the larger temp delta.

I'll take your word for it that the northbridge cooler is modded, I can understand you wanting to hide your process.

I really want to match up my sager versus an executioner, but I didn't have the cash for a good processor at the time I bought it, so I sit atop a 2.1GHz T8100. K|N doesn't offer this option.

If you can, though, I would love to run benches on a killernotebooks executioner (crippled with a T8100) to see the performance advantages. Would you like to/can you, K|N?

Let's be nice, guys. You do have to admit, aside from the holes in the notebook, those mods are pretty damn good workmanship.

Is it possible to do the benchmark competition?
August 22, 2008 4:28:31 AM

Sure, right now I have an Executioner MX for a couple days, but the lowest processor I have right now is a x9100 so it's not even close. I'm sorry but I only go down to the P9500 CPU (kind of specialize in the top end you know) Nexst week I want to start on the 860TU which is my Hamadashi. There are a lot of complaints about heat, and even the 9800 GT next week gets dropped to a 9800 GTS.

I don't have internet until Monday (moving) so do up whatever you want and post it over at Guru or here, just let me know the details of what you want to run and how.

BTW, I tried that exact same copper Northbridge cooler that was mentioned earlier. The Northbridge heatsink really needs to be custom made also to get to that level, the one mentioned isn't quite right.
August 22, 2008 11:45:50 PM

Hi.

Thank you for your comments about Sager notebooks. Seems like they are top of the line laptops. Most probably, exactly what I need. The model I want, np9262, seems a fine computer. So sad that there are a few things I dislike about it:
-The overall look is... well, boring
-Weird position of the USB ports ( I connect a lot of stuff via usb, but also I'm right handed with the mouse)
-No e-sata
-No illuminated keyboard (what is actually damn useful when working on events, since it use to be so dark in the master)
-And an incredibly expensive Blu-ray unit (more expensive than the one Alienware offers) that goes completely out of budget.

Apart from that, seems a good option. Thank you very much for your commentaries.

About the selling point... well, never imagined it would trigger such an intense debate about it! Dunno if Sager could actually pair up the price that other sellers offer, but actually, xotic or other resellers give additional options Sager itself don't have.

I'm a bit more sure about Sager computers now... But more confused about where should I buy it!

For any reference, the computer I'm interested in is:

SAGER NP9262 Ultimate Custom Laptop (Built on Clevo D900C / D901C)
- 17" WUXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1920x1200)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel Core 2 QUAD Q9550 2.83GHz w/ 12MB L2 Cache - 1333MHz FSB
- SLI ENABLED DUAL (2) 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9800M GT (1024MB Total) w/GDDR3 DX10 Video Cards (User Upgradeable)
- None Standard
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 800 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- Standard Finish
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- Raid 0-Stripe (Combines primary and secondary hard drive)( (Requires 2-3 Identical Sized Hard Drives)
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- None Standard
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Built-In Multi Region TV Tuner w/ Remote (Standard Remote)
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (12 Cell)
- 1 Spare 110/220V 120W Auto Switching AC Adapter (as an extra or for replacement)
- ~Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Based Toll Free Tech Support
(Year2 & 3 Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)

$3544.39 Cash + 37usd ups ground shipping

(I'm thinking about going for the 3 ghz cpu and buy 2x200 GB HDD instead).

Thanks again for your commentaries.

(Excuse me for taking so long to reply, I've been away from home)
!