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Online Diplomacy- a losing proposition?

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Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:40:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite fun.

My experiences since then have been less enjoyable. Typically players
will have little dedication to the game and one or two players will drop
out before it's over. Or even worse, some players will be never respond
to messages, be habitually late, and make it very hard to make plans.

In my current game I'm playing as Turkey and it appears that Russia is
the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages, while Italy
and Austria are giving me the silent treatment as Italy attempts the
Lepanto.

The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.

Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?



--
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:35:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Or, alternatively, participate in F2F tournaments. Origins in Ohio is
close. There are at least 5 tournaments on the East Coast every year.
Excellent play at each of those.

It's also really hard for people to ignore you when you're looking
them in the eye...;)

Nathan


Aaron Deskins <ndeskins@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:<ci4ii6$glu$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>...
> I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
> years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
> great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite fun.
>
> My experiences since then have been less enjoyable. Typically players
> will have little dedication to the game and one or two players will drop
> out before it's over. Or even worse, some players will be never respond
> to messages, be habitually late, and make it very hard to make plans.
>
> In my current game I'm playing as Turkey and it appears that Russia is
> the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages, while Italy
> and Austria are giving me the silent treatment as Italy attempts the
> Lepanto.
>
> The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
> played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
> understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
> wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.
>
> Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 10:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Aaron Deskins wrote:
> I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
> years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
> great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite
> fun.
>
> My experiences since then have been less enjoyable.
> Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?

Go to: http://doug.obscurestuff.com/dip/drr.html

Contact Doug and join the Vermont Group. It's a group of
dedicated Diplomacy players.

Or, go to:

http://www.diplom.org/DP-cgi/setqueue

and join the experienced queue, since experienced players
tend to be more reliable.

Eric.
--
Related resources
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 10:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Aaron Deskins <ndeskins@ecn.purdue.edu> writes:

> Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?

Behave well yourself, and join the Vermont group.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:34:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <ci4ii6$glu$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
Aaron Deskins <ndeskins@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:

>The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
>played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
>understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
>wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.

Newbie games have a particularly bad record for players sticking
with the game. I would not recommend playing newbie-queue games
after your first one, if even then. My first game ended with, if
I recall correctly, none of the original players but me, and Turkey
had been replaced 3 times.... The Western players had adopted
a strategy of "If this Turkey won't stab Austria for us, we'll just
wait until the next one" and eventually it worked.

>Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?

If you have played at least 5 games to completion and never dropped
out, you can apply to join the Vermont Group and only play with
other dedicated players--from what I hear this helps a lot. Till
then, try the experienced player queue. It's not perfect but it's
better than the newbie one.

Also, I find that sending lots of interesting broadcast press
can help encourage slacker players to continue. You can write
satirical songs about the other players, fictional reports from
the scenes of battles, snide comments from unaligned nations,
whatever you like. (Most games allow gray press if you don't want
to admit who you are.) If the press is fun to read, players
stick with the game better.

I'm inclined to attribute my one PBeM solo to the following broadcast
from about midway through the game. (Couldn't have been due to
my position, which started out busted--I was a replacement player--
and stayed that way for most of the game.)

--

The Vienna/Trieste Duet

(to the tune of "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word,"
with apologies to Elton John)


Italy: What have I gotta do to make you listen?
What have I gotta do to be heard?
Austria: You should have thought of that before you stabbed me!
Both: 'Sorry' seems to be the hardest word.

Chorus:

Italy: I'm sad--
Austria: --you're bad--
Italy: --so sad--
Austria: --I'm mad--
Italy: It's a sad, sad situation
Austria: And for me to trust you now's absurd.

Austria: You stabbed--
Italy: --I'm sad--
Austria: --and stabbed--
Italy: --my bad!
Why can't we talk it over?
Both: Always seems to me
'Sorry' seems to be the hardest word.

Italy: You know I didn't send those letters:
Austria: That's what you'd like me to believe
Italy: Then why'd I remove that Fleet Vienna?
Austria: Everything is calculated to deceive!

(chorus)

Turkey (solo): Sorry seems to be the hardest word!

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@eskimo.com
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:48:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

> Behave well yourself, and join the Vermont group.

Or ask people who GM a lot (like me) to set up a game with a
requirement of a high on-time ratio and low CD ratio. Like dein@USOS,
which took a while to get started. Unfortunately over the time it took
to get started we lost our Russian, but if you want to join, then jump
in. You'll see it listed on the openings page
http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/openings/shortform.htm....

It's not anonymous, so you don't need to worry about that.

The Vermont Group is good for having people stick with the game, but
it's not always that great for lateness. I think there are some groups
for people who are always on time with their orders, but I have no
idea where (if there's anyone out there, please let me know!). Luckily
the 'ontimerat' property on the judges helps a lot for getting games
that run on time.

hillwood@USOS is another game that has a high ontime ratio. It's only
been running a little while, but it's now F1902M, and no-one's been
late yet. Hopefully the game will continue like this!

In no-press scenarios, quinn@USOS is in F1912M, and has had 3
instances of people being late. suker@USVG is in S1903M and yet to
have a late. vnpersie@USIN is at F1914MX, with 10 lates, but 7 were
from a player who had a particularly hard time during the game. So if
you discount those, then there were only 3.

So there is hope - you just need to have the right kinds of games set
up!

RobF
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 2:13:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Aaron Deskins wrote:

> it appears that Russia is
> the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages

*Sometimes* this player can be quite useful. A harried player who just
puts in orders each turn might read messages but not respond. If you
send him friendly press with genuinely helpful suggestions (that just
happen to be good for you too), it might influence him.
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 4:50:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Aaron Deskins <ndeskins@ecn.purdue.edu> writes:

>I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
>years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
>great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite fun.

>My experiences since then have been less enjoyable. Typically players
>will have little dedication to the game and one or two players will drop
>out before it's over. Or even worse, some players will be never respond
>to messages, be habitually late, and make it very hard to make plans.

>In my current game I'm playing as Turkey and it appears that Russia is
>the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages, while Italy
>and Austria are giving me the silent treatment as Italy attempts the
>Lepanto.

>The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
>played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
>understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
>wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.

>Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?

>--
>Aaron Deskins
>Graduate Student
>Chemical Engineering
>Purdue University

I would recommend that you try playing one of the central powers
(Italy, Austria, and Germany... on judges usually easy to get via
preference list) and then that you hold up to get through one
more game or so and then join one of the dedicated player groups
like Diplomacy World, cat 23, Vermont Group, etc. etc.

Jim-Bob
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 10:14:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I'm a newbie too, and had a terrible experience with my only e-mail
queue game, with only one original player still in the game in 1906,
which has taken months so far because of waiting for replacements. (I
got booted myself because of an honest stuff-up with my email system).

I would recommend the BOUNCED setup (www.dipbounced.com). After
finishing two games, if you have a commitment rating of 99% or higher,
you can play against others with a similar commitment. It's web-based
with no complicated syntax to learn, and an easy graphical interface.
Replacement positions are often filled within minutes and the dropout
rate is reasonably low anyway - usually newbies who have just been
stabbed. People are sometimes a few hours late but they get booted if
they do it 3 times, and they take a commitment hit every time they are
late.

I'm not officially associated with the site, by the way, just a happy
customer.
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 11:47:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

> I would recommend that you try playing one of the central powers
> (Italy, Austria, and Germany... on judges usually easy to get via
> preference list) and then that you hold up to get through one
> more game or so and then join one of the dedicated player groups
> like Diplomacy World, cat 23, Vermont Group, etc. etc.

Play Central Powers anyway! They're far more fun.

Though I've never yet played as Turkey, so perhaps can't comment on that.

Alastair
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 7:17:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

cmgoogle wrote:
> I'm a newbie too, and had a terrible experience with my only e-mail
> queue game, with only one original player still in the game in 1906,
> which has taken months so far because of waiting for replacements. (I
> got booted myself because of an honest stuff-up with my email system).
>
> I would recommend the BOUNCED setup (www.dipbounced.com). After
> finishing two games, if you have a commitment rating of 99% or higher,
> you can play against others with a similar commitment. It's web-based
> with no complicated syntax to learn, and an easy graphical interface.
> Replacement positions are often filled within minutes and the dropout
> rate is reasonably low anyway - usually newbies who have just been
> stabbed. People are sometimes a few hours late but they get booted if
> they do it 3 times, and they take a commitment hit every time they are
> late.
>
> I'm not officially associated with the site, by the way, just a happy
> customer.

Looks good I will sign up.
Just playing my first game in a few years via the Dip2000 and Turkey
went CD in Fall 1901 and France just NMRd. As I am Italy I am hoping
tyat France doesn't come back ;) 

Dan
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 8:52:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll try some experienced games and
see how they go.

Aaron Deskins wrote:
> I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
> years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
> great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite fun.
>
> My experiences since then have been less enjoyable. Typically players
> will have little dedication to the game and one or two players will drop
> out before it's over. Or even worse, some players will be never respond
> to messages, be habitually late, and make it very hard to make plans.
>
> In my current game I'm playing as Turkey and it appears that Russia is
> the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages, while Italy
> and Austria are giving me the silent treatment as Italy attempts the
> Lepanto.
>
> The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
> played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
> understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
> wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.
>
> Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?
>
>
>


--
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University
September 15, 2004 4:42:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Its really a test. First they make you play with a bunch of unreliable
idiots who will take their ball and go home as soon as things are not going
well. If you get past that obstacle, someone will show you the way to the
'real' Diplomacy game rooms.


"Aaron Deskins" <ndeskins@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:ci4ii6$glu$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> I've been playing Diplomacy online (via e-mail) for the last couple
> years for a total of perhaps 5-6 games. The first game I played was
> great. The players were all dedicated to the game and it was quite fun.
>
> My experiences since then have been less enjoyable. Typically players
> will have little dedication to the game and one or two players will drop
> out before it's over. Or even worse, some players will be never respond
> to messages, be habitually late, and make it very hard to make plans.
>
> In my current game I'm playing as Turkey and it appears that Russia is
> the habitually late player who doesn't respond to messages, while Italy
> and Austria are giving me the silent treatment as Italy attempts the
> Lepanto.
>
> The games I've played have typically been 'newbie' games where I've
> played as Turkey, which may have something to do with it. I also
> understand part of the game is being stabbed, losing, etc., but I'm
> wondering what I can do to make my experience a better one.
>
> Any comments or suggestions? How can I remedy my situation?
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Deskins
> Graduate Student
> Chemical Engineering
> Purdue University
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 1:46:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Fleet Vienna? But I think such a broadcast deserves a solo anyway!

> The Vienna/Trieste Duet
>
> (to the tune of "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word,"
> with apologies to Elton John)
>
>
> Italy: What have I gotta do to make you listen?
> What have I gotta do to be heard?
> Austria: You should have thought of that before you stabbed me!
> Both: 'Sorry' seems to be the hardest word.
>
> Chorus:
>
> Italy: I'm sad--
> Austria: --you're bad--
> Italy: --so sad--
> Austria: --I'm mad--
> Italy: It's a sad, sad situation
> Austria: And for me to trust you now's absurd.
>
> Austria: You stabbed--
> Italy: --I'm sad--
> Austria: --and stabbed--
> Italy: --my bad!
> Why can't we talk it over?
> Both: Always seems to me
> 'Sorry' seems to be the hardest word.
>
> Italy: You know I didn't send those letters:
> Austria: That's what you'd like me to believe
> Italy: Then why'd I remove that Fleet Vienna?
> Austria: Everything is calculated to deceive!
>
> (chorus)
>
> Turkey (solo): Sorry seems to be the hardest word!
>
> Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@eskimo.com
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:43:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

In article <cirauq$ti0$2@ls219.htnet.hr>,
Andy Tomlinson <andy.tomlinson@removethis.zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
>Fleet Vienna? But I think such a broadcast deserves a solo anyway!

Um, should probably have been Venice, or maybe Trieste--I forget--
but what you saw is what I broadcast. <bonk> I guess Vienna
scanned better?

Anyway, this was the game that featured a Turkish fleet in Norway.
Sometimes the pieces looked like they'd just been thrown on the
board--F Vie would not have been out of place!

I thought it was odd to win with a mercy-position England, but
*deeply* odd for England to win after having Turkey in the
Norwegian. But Austria stabbed for a solo at that point, and
after a lot of really sharp tactical play to make him fail,
including the disband of F Nwy, it was discovered that I had
a stab for about 21. (Turkey said, "You wouldn't do that,
would you? After all we've been through together?")

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@eskimo.com
!