PalmOne dropping phoneless PDAs? Rumor?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Luc Le Blanc rose quietly and spake the following:

> One of my program users tells me I should warn others that low-end
> devices are going to disappear since Palm (PalmOne I presume) has
> announced they'll stop making simple PDAs, going to PDA+phone devices
> only. I never read anything like this. Have you?

God, I hope not. Because if that's the case, I'll be stuck with my m515
until I die.

--
Derek

If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great
disappointments.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Luc Le Blanc <lleblanc@cam.org> wrote:
>
> One of my program users tells me I should warn others that low-end
> devices are going to disappear since Palm (PalmOne I presume) has
> announced they'll stop making simple PDAs, going to PDA+phone devices
> only. I never read anything like this. Have you?

Well, no, errm...
Reading about OS5 and OS6 I got the impression that OS5 will mainly be
used for the next smartphones and OS6 will blow PocketPC from the market
or so ;-)
Now, some weeks ago, I read a newsletter talking about OS6 being
tailored to the specific needs of phone companies. So now I hear phone,
phone, phone.
Read yourself:

(Rest of this post cited from

@TEAL - TEALPOINT'S MOBILE E-MAGAZINE
Issue 9 - July 2004
---------------------------------------------------------
....
INTRODUCING PALMOS 6

This year, PalmSource announced (surprise!) yet another
version of PalmOS, debuting on devices later this year. This
new version--supplanting PalmOS 5 from two or so years
ago--promises new graphics capabilities and hardware
security features for next generation handhelds
and smart phones.

Sensing that the former numbering scheme was just too
straightforward and clear to be any good, however, marketing
folk have branded PalmOS 6 with the moniker "Cobalt" (known
at the show as "Cobol... no what was it again? oh yeah,
Cobalt" ). The-Version-Formerly-Known-as-PalmOS-5 now has a
new name too. It shall from now on be known as "PalmOS
Garnet", or so they say. We honestly think they, like
Prince, should have considered using memorable symbols
instead of the new names. Here's an idea for two symbols
that might be more memorable and less confusing: "5" and "6".

The new operating system is actually a full rewrite from the
ground up, incorporating technology and expertise from
PalmSource's acquisition of Be Inc. in 2001. This radical
move adds additional multithreading, security and stability
features to PalmOS, creating a device platform
specifically-tailored to meet the concerns of cell
phone manufacturers.

This is largely good news, for it puts PalmOS on strong
ground for taking its share of the growing SmartPhone
market. Indeed, it is likely to avoid a repeat of some of
the costly and embarrassing losses Microsoft suffered
recently when manufacturers cancelled PocketPC-based
SmartPhones, some citing stability and source code
access concerns.

Of course, if PalmOS is a strong platform, then we all, as
users, developers, and fans benefit as well. But does that
necessarily mean that we should all rush out and get PalmOS
Cobalt devices when they come out? Er... not necessarily. As
we'll see, the benefits of Cobalt itself don't necessarily
all extend to end users. Indeed, there are several important
considerations to weigh before personally deciding to take
the Cobalt plunge.

NEW STUFF WE GET

PalmOS Cobalt does bring along with it a couple of flashy
new features and capabilities. The most obvious of these is
a new graphics library that sports fancy capabilities such
as translucent drawing, antialiased lines, and scalable
add-on fonts. While it was possible for programs to do some
or all of these things before, having support in the
operating system makes it much more likely that applications
will utilize the improved graphics to give snappier
looking applications.

OLD STUFF WE LOSE

Nothing comes without a cost, however, and this one's got a
couple of doozies. First of all, PalmSource created a new
type of PalmOS application and did not make any of the new
features backwards compatible. While most older programs
will run as-is on the new devices, companies cannot use any
of the new features without making new, separate versions of
their programs. These new versions, in turn, cannot run at
all on existing devices, guaranteeing that developers will
spend all their time maintaining two separate versions of
every application if they want to access any of the new
Cobalt features. Aargh!

Wait, there's more. When PalmSource released PalmOS 5, they
struck a huge blow to hacks, desk accessories, popup
applications, security apps, and other programs that need to
run in the background. Just as we've just about recovered,
they've done it again, and--get the doctor--this time it
might be terminal.

When OS 5 came about, PalmSource changed the system patching
mechanisms, removing many of them but providing an alternate
mechanism for key system patches. Some programs got
rewritten to accommodate the new method, while others relied
on our program TealMaster, which emulates the old standards
under PalmOS 5 where possible.

In PalmOS Cobalt, however, not only has PalmSource changed
the mechanisms again, but many have been eliminated
altogether. Most hack-style applications will not run under
Cobalt, even if they run fine under PalmOS 5. Even worse,
many of these will probably never be resurrected for Cobalt.
Why? All in the name of security.

THE JOYS OF INSECURITY

In the coming year, we'll be hearing a great deal about the
security benefits of PalmOS Cobalt, and why we should all
run out and buy new devices (at list prices) to get them.
"Super Security"... "Secure Superiority"... after all, who
doesn't want extra security? Well, maybe we might reconsider
if the extra "security" features are, in fact,
security from us.

You see, when PalmSource designed the new OS, they wanted to
meet the needs of their customers. But don't smile yet, as
you're not one of their customers and neither are we. Their
customers are the device and phone manufacturers that pay
PalmSource royalties for each device they sell. And unlike
us, phone manufacturers want to restrict the types of
applications we can install, lest we put something
"unapproved" on our phone that might crash the handheld,
give it "unsupported" behavior, or (aha!) give someone
"unauthorized" access to their communications networks!

And thus, PalmOS Cobalt has new "security" features which,
amongst other things, gives manufacturers the sweeping power
to prevent hacks, popup programs, background dictionaries,
system enhancements, and yes, even other security apps they
the don't specifically "sign off" on from running on the device.

While it has yet to be seen whether all manufacturers will
choose to restrict such apps, if even a significant
percentage of them do, it could create enough confusion in
the market to convince developers that it's just not worth
the cost to write and support these types of apps anymore.
This would be sad, as one of the big benefits of PalmOS has
always been ability to fine-tune and personalize our devices
with hacks, popups, and similar apps.

CONCLUSION

When PalmOS moved from version 4 to version 5, there was a
clear benefit for all in terms of better memory capacity,
cost savings, and speed. This time, however, SmartPhone
manufacturers seem to have gotten most of the goodies. For
the rest of us, the benefits are not so clear, and it has
yet to be seen whether PalmOS Cobalt will be widely adopted
by end consumers or most PDA manufacturers.

Indeed, PalmSource may sense some of this uncertainty
themselves, which partially explains their odd new naming
conventions. They have announced that PalmOS 5 (Garnet) will
be sticking around and will be officially supported and
independently upgraded for the indefinite future. By naming
the two versions "Garnet" and "Cobalt", they are positioning
"Cobalt" less as a clear upgrade to "Garnet" and more as a
parallel alternative platform. Will this strategy ultimately
work? Stay tuned, 'cause we don't know either. But rest
assured, we'll be here watching with you to find out.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Peter Franks rose quietly and spake the following:

> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:199lhk9v6fc0m$.dlg@gwinn.us...
>> Luc Le Blanc rose quietly and spake the following:
>>
>>> One of my program users tells me I should warn others that low-end
>>> devices are going to disappear since Palm (PalmOne I presume) has
>>> announced they'll stop making simple PDAs, going to PDA+phone devices
>>> only. I never read anything like this. Have you?
>>
>> God, I hope not. Because if that's the case, I'll be stuck with my m515
>> until I die.
>
> I don't *want* a phone PDA, and I suspect that many others don't, either.
> Credit checks, long service contracts, bad connection service (my area is a
> good example), extra bulk...nah, I just want a PDA to do what they're made
> for.

I had a Qualcomm Thinphone for 5 years. Those aren't bulky, but they're
long. I grew to hate having that thing on my waist for the same reasons
that I quickly stopped using my belt carrier for my PDA.

> Besides, they still make monochrome models, even though color ones exist. If
> there's a proper market, that will be the final factor, I suspect.

We can hope and pray.

--
Derek

"Marriage is a great institution if you get it right." -- Donald Trump

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I personally don't think that PalmOne will drop the phoneless PDA
anytime soon. There is still a market for people who only want a PDA
and don't want a cellphone (or don't want an integrated smartphone).

I prefer having an all in one device and I would like PalmOne to come
out with an integrated smartphone much like the Treo 600 with built in
bluetooth, better screen resolution, more internal memory, faster CPU,
better camera, AND built-in WiFi. The current rumour is that the next
version of the Treo 600 (Ace/Treo 650) probably will have everything
listed above except the built-in WiFi.




/Jim


George Fragos <gfragos@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<l7-dnYvR3-ieJa3cRVn-tQ@comcast.com>...
> Luc Le Blanc wrote:
> > One of my program users tells me I should warn others that low-end
> > devices are going to disappear since Palm (PalmOne I presume) has
> > announced they'll stop making simple PDAs, going to PDA+phone devices
> > only. I never read anything like this. Have you?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luc Le Blanc
> >
>
> I'm sure Palm has said that the market is migrating to integrated
> devices. They have done well with the Treo 600. However their highest
> volume products are in the Zire line. Recognizing market direction is
> one thing but cutting off your nose to spite your face is another. I'm
> sure that this is just a case of a fact being retold out of context so
> many times that it no longer has validity.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Which smartphone do you have? Do you have the Tungsten W? I was going
to get a Tungsten W until I read some of the reviews that said that it
is a good PDA but only an adequate cellphone (sound quality, etc.)




/Jim


Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote in message news:<b6m2j092dfmapcehjagfnfn4tla5tri3ev@news20.forteinc.com>...
> Begin Jim Poon quote:
>
> ; I prefer having an all in one device and I would like PalmOne to come
> ; out with an integrated smartphone much like the Treo 600 with built in
> ; bluetooth, better screen resolution, more internal memory, faster CPU,
> ; better camera, AND built-in WiFi. The current rumour is that the next
> ; version of the Treo 600 (Ace/Treo 650) probably will have everything
> ; listed above except the built-in WiFi.
>
> I want a SmartPhone without wifi, bt, or camera. Got one now, but it's
> OS4.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:25:06 -0400, Luc Le Blanc <lleblanc@cam.org>
was understood to have stated the following:

>One of my program users tells me I should warn others that low-end
>devices are going to disappear since Palm (PalmOne I presume) has
>announced they'll stop making simple PDAs, going to PDA+phone devices
>only. I never read anything like this. Have you?

They can't be *that* stupid, can they? I mean, I abhor WinCE, but the
thought of *having* to have a cell phone bundled with a PDA is
ludicrous. I would rather run a WinCE device free of a cell phone,
than to be forced into a Palm OS device with a cell phone.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 29-Aug-2004, Mike Paige <m1i2c3p4g5a6t7h8m@cox.net> Flushed this thought from
his brain to the screen::

> Actually, I'm wondering what happened to the world of Bluetooth
> connected, purpose-specific devices. I thought it sounded like a good
> idea to have a simpler phone (that wouldn't need alarms or phone books
> or big screens) that could be dialed from my PDA. Both could signal
> alarms on my wristwatch (which wouldn't need multiple alarms anymore)
> and transmit audio to a bluetooth headset, if I wanted.

I'm checking into a BlueTooth implant for my head! I can wirelessly connect to
any BT device within 30 feet, hack into other's phonebooks and memos just by
thinking, "Hmm, I wonder what's on her PDA", and view in glorious black & white
all the photos they have saved on their SD card!
I am a bit worried about BT "proof of viability" virii though... Kinda hard to
"hard reset" the ol' noodle...

[/sarcasmFF]

WyreNut

--
Remember! Always Eschew Obfuscation!!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:19:11 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:

>I want a SmartPhone without wifi, bt, or camera. Got one now, but it's
>OS4.

Samsung.

--
John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Begin yeltrabnhoj@email.com quote:

; On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:19:11 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:
;
; >I want a SmartPhone without wifi, bt, or camera. Got one now, but it's
; >OS4.
;
; Samsung.

Samsung what?

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

DISCLAIMER: No electrons were injured in the production of this web
site.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:199lhk9v6fc0m$.dlg@gwinn.us:

> God, I hope not. Because if that's the case, I'll be stuck with my m515
> until I die.

I wouldn't be surprised if Palm does drop dedicated PDAs... because in the
last year or so, sales of PDAs have dropped 21%. Cell phones and
smartphones have picked up the slack.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Lucas Tam rose quietly and spake the following:

> Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:199lhk9v6fc0m$.dlg@gwinn.us:
>
>> God, I hope not. Because if that's the case, I'll be stuck with my m515
>> until I die.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Palm does drop dedicated PDAs... because in the
> last year or so, sales of PDAs have dropped 21%. Cell phones and
> smartphones have picked up the slack.

I would be surprised. There is a portion of their market which works in
secure areas where devices with cameras, voice recorders, wireless network
and cell phones are verbotten. There are also those whose place of
employment will buy a PDA for them, but not a cell phone.

--
Derek

The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawn mower.