Bulletproof backup - how to test?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that I
periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a corrupt
OS?

Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
system:

1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
2) delete C:\boot.ini
3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
and delete at random any 5 .dll files

If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.

So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system fail.

To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on my
System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing I
use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
periodically copied from my System disk.

The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system fail.

Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to it
and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
30 answers Last reply
More about bulletproof backup test
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:

    --
    Regards,

    Richard Urban

    aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

    If you knew as much as you thought you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    > I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    > corrupt
    > OS?
    >
    > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
    > system:
    >
    > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    > more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
    > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >
    > If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >
    > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    > my
    > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    > disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    > I
    > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    > periodically copied from my System disk.
    >
    > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    > it
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >
    >
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    > I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    > corrupt
    > OS?
    >
    > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
    > system:
    >
    > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    > more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
    > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >
    > If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >
    > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    > my
    > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    > disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    > I
    > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    > periodically copied from my System disk.
    >
    > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    > it
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >
    >

    How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging program
    would be much quicker and easier to restore.

    Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of backup.
    For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal drive
    like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
    programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I also
    install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget and
    the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
    can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
    media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media for
    each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site. One
    day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
    site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked area
    not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
    schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
    computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the computer
    is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
    available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
    set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due to
    them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to restore
    data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
    computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
    proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.

    That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
    wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
    good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when not
    being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
    disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
    things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
    playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the computer,
    etc.

    Kerry
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    > I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows
    XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    corrupt
    > OS?
    >
    > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
    > system:
    >
    > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    > more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
    > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >
    > If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >
    > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    fail.
    >
    > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    my
    > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    > disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    I
    > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    > periodically copied from my System disk.
    >
    > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    fail.
    >
    > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    it
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >


    My favorite test is to remove the drive, stick a blank new drive (or
    formatted
    old one) in and see if you can restore from your backup. Nothing like
    having
    a wonderful backup scheme - - - then you find when it really trashes itself,
    the one piece of the puzzle missing (like a driver for the SATA) is not
    available
    or you forgot to set something up so you could boot up the restore software.
    If it is a good process, the system should come back up and not have a clue
    the drive has changed (and if it doesn't, you have not trashed the good
    drive
    that was working). Drives are cheap -- worth trying it that way. And to be
    really good, you need to have a copy of the backup off-site AND along with
    the backup, have complete information on the system configuration so if it
    is
    stolen, crushed, burned etc, you can get back to where you were (handy for
    insurance purposes also -- have pix).

    mikey
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    After reinstalling XP, you will probably have to "take
    ownership" of the backup folders on the other drive. Also,
    if you use data encryption, you will need to take steps to
    be able to gain access to those files.


    --
    The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
    But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
    some support
    http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm


    "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote
    in message news:eguVE7XeFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | Format your Window partition. You can't get any more
    corrupt than that (-:
    |
    | --
    | Regards,
    |
    | Richard Urban
    |
    | aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
    |
    | If you knew as much as you thought you know,
    | You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
    knew!
    |
    |
    | "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    | news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    | >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting
    my OS (Windows XP).
    | > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal
    SATA hard drive that
    | > I
    | > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my
    backup disk will
    | > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS
    corruption - even after
    | > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible
    for the Partition
    | > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get
    screwed up by a
    | > corrupt
    | > OS?
    | >
    | > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the
    Windows XP operating
    | > system:
    | >
    | > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    | > more info:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    | > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    | > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    | > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files
    by Type, and select
    | > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    | >
    | > If anyone can think of other options that could
    potentially make my
    | > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    | >
    | > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this
    backup system
    | > fail.
    | >
    | > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to
    reinstall Windows XP on
    | > my
    | > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup
    disk to my System
    | > disk. All data and system files reside on my System
    disk; the only thing
    | > I
    | > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data
    (only data),
    | > periodically copied from my System disk.
    | >
    | > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my
    backup system
    | > fail.
    | >
    | > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and
    take my System disk
    | > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect
    my Backup disk to
    | > it
    | > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:

    That would do it. But I'm also interested in more subtle and sinister ideas
    that have the potential to cause the data on my secondary internal disk to
    become inaccessible - even after I reinstall the OS on my primary system
    disk.
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    deko wrote:
    >
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!

    No such thing as a bullet proof single media backup system. One can
    perhaps, get to 99% by using two different forms of media and storing
    one form off site.


    --
    http://www.bootdisk.com/
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    deko wrote:
    >
    > I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will

    ps your method is probably the LEAST reliable of any.


    --
    http://www.bootdisk.com/
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging program
    > would be much quicker and easier to restore.
    >
    > Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of
    backup.
    > For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal drive
    > like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
    > programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I
    also
    > install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget and
    > the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
    > can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
    > media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media
    for
    > each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site.
    One
    > day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
    > site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked area
    > not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
    > schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
    > computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the
    computer
    > is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
    > available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
    > set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due to
    > them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to
    restore
    > data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
    > computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
    > proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.
    >
    > That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
    > wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
    > good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when
    not
    > being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
    > disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
    > things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
    > playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the
    computer,
    > etc.

    Thanks for the reply. Good ideas, to be sure.

    But the one thing I am trying to test is this:

    Can a corrupted OS somehow make my secondary internal (non-system) disk
    inaccessible - even after a reinstall of the OS on a new primary system
    disk. As far as I can tell, the answer is no.
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:7Sive.33958$J12.2667@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >> How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging
    >> program
    >> would be much quicker and easier to restore.
    >>
    >> Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of
    > backup.
    >> For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal
    >> drive
    >> like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
    >> programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I
    > also
    >> install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget
    >> and
    >> the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
    >> can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
    >> media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media
    > for
    >> each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site.
    > One
    >> day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
    >> site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked
    >> area
    >> not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
    >> schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
    >> computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the
    > computer
    >> is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
    >> available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
    >> set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due
    >> to
    >> them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to
    > restore
    >> data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
    >> computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
    >> proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.
    >>
    >> That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
    >> wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
    >> good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when
    > not
    >> being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
    >> disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
    >> things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
    >> playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the
    > computer,
    >> etc.
    >
    > Thanks for the reply. Good ideas, to be sure.
    >
    > But the one thing I am trying to test is this:
    >
    > Can a corrupted OS somehow make my secondary internal (non-system) disk
    > inaccessible - even after a reinstall of the OS on a new primary system
    > disk. As far as I can tell, the answer is no.
    >
    >

    If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
    then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the OS
    itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
    problem could happen on both drives.

    Kerry
  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
    process, lol.

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Jayso

    Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :)

    Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
    Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
    jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    > I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    > corrupt
    > OS?
    >
    > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
    > system:
    >
    > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    > more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
    > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >
    > If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >
    > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    > my
    > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    > disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    > I
    > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    > periodically copied from my System disk.
    >
    > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    > it
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
    > process, lol.

    During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly corrupt"?
    If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has a
    flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
    your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
    Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
    possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
    if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
    semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
    of having a Bulletproof backup.


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:wRbve.2021$N22.1151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >> What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
    >> process, lol.
    >
    > During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly
    > corrupt"?
    > If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has
    > a
    > flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    The only bulletproof backup is what big corps do. They have
    full RAID systems, off-line, off site storage in many
    locations. When the WTC fell, most companies (not the FBI)
    had little data loss because they had automatic duplication
    in NYC, Chicago, KC or Utah. Fire, flood or terrorist
    attack or just a virus can get your data if it is all in the
    same place.


    --
    The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
    But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
    some support
    http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:wRbve.2021$N22.1151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    |> What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts
    itself during the
    | > process, lol.
    |
    | During the process of what? How could the second drive
    "suddenly corrupt"?
    | If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my
    backup system has a
    | flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
    |
    |
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    deko wrote:

    >>What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
    >>process, lol.
    >
    >
    > During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly corrupt"?
    > If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has a
    > flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
    >
    >

    Bulletproof? Dream on. What you have is better than no backup but
    there are many failure mechanisms that can disable the system.

    1. Power surges (lightning strikes, PSU failure...)
    2. Natural disaster (flood, fire...
    3. Human intervention (oops, theft, malicious mischief...)
    4. Mechanical failure of the drives.
    5. Malware

    Bakcup to external media and store generations of that off site.

    --
    Rock
    MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
    > your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
    > Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
    > possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
    > if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
    > semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
    > of having a Bulletproof backup.

    Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from Power
    Supply over-voltage spikes. Is that all you can think of? The main concern
    I have is the OS somehow buttering up the drive's MBR or something like
    that - but risk has to be realistic. That's why I am purposely corrupting
    my OS in as many ways as possible to test for this.
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:Cocve.2043$N22.874@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    > > Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
    > > your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
    > > Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
    > > possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
    > > if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
    > > semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
    > > of having a Bulletproof backup.
    >
    > Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from Power
    > Supply over-voltage spikes.
    But you aren't protected from spikes on the AC power lines.
    Jim
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    deko wrote:
    >
    > Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from
    > Power Supply over-voltage spikes. Is that all you can think of?

    Of course not!

    We had a customer in South Carolina who was burglarized three times in ten
    days. Every time the do-bads stole everything that even remotely looked
    computerish.

    We had another customer in Hollister, California that was the epicenter of
    the San Francisco earthquake. His building collapsed on his computer. Then a
    fire broke out.

    Fortunately the fire was extinguished by 40,000 tons of tomato paste from
    the warehouse across the street which formed a flood of red ooze.

    Over the years we've encountered - among our users - a handfull of employee
    malice cases.

    No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the computer-related business and
    open a pig farm.
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the computer-related business and
    > open a pig farm.

    But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be truly safe, I'd need
    TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    Nope, granite releases Radon gas which is radioactive.
    Better have a place on top of a mountain plain and the
    second place in hyperspace.

    And there are a billion Muslims who might attack your pig
    farm, better to raise camels.


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:hahve.33929$J12.19475@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    |> No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the
    computer-related business and
    | > open a pig farm.
    |
    | But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be
    truly safe, I'd need
    | TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
    |
    |
  20. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    I guess an easy way to destroy the O/S is to delete the windows folder
    (including System 32). You might need DOS to acheive this. Some things DOS
    might not be able to delete, the reason for most of these are attribute
    settings, or files in use (use win 98 startup disk or something with DOS on
    it)

    Please reply to let me know how your reckless experiment goes

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Jayso

    Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :)

    Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
    Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
    jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
    > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    > I
    > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    > corrupt
    > OS?
    >
    > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
    > system:
    >
    > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    > more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
    > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >
    > If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >
    > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    > my
    > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    > disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    > I
    > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    > periodically copied from my System disk.
    >
    > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    > fail.
    >
    > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    > it
    > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >
    >
  21. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    oh but that's not any fun, this is supposed to be a FUN exercise

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Jayso

    Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :)

    Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
    Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
    jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


    "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:eguVE7XeFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Richard Urban
    >
    > aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
    >
    > If you knew as much as you thought you know,
    > You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
    >
    >
    > "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    > news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows
    >>XP).
    >> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
    >> I
    >> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
    >> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
    >> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
    >> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
    >> corrupt
    >> OS?
    >>
    >> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP
    >> operating
    >> system:
    >>
    >> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
    >> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
    >> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
    >> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
    >> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and
    >> select
    >> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
    >>
    >> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
    >> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
    >>
    >> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
    >> fail.
    >>
    >> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
    >> my
    >> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
    >> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
    >> I
    >> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
    >> periodically copied from my System disk.
    >>
    >> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
    >> fail.
    >>
    >> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
    >> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
    >> it
    >> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
    > then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
    OS
    > itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
    > problem could happen on both drives.

    Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
    likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap multiple
    drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
    even more bulletproof.

    In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
  23. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:Rirve.2274$N22.470@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >> If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
    >> then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
    > OS
    >> itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
    >> problem could happen on both drives.
    >
    > Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
    > likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap
    > multiple
    > drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
    > even more bulletproof.
    >
    > In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
    >
    >

    If you still persist in thinking your backup method is bulletproof then you
    are deluded. There has not been one post that agrees with you. A double
    failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply is not unheard of.
    It is good that you are doing backups. That puts you way ahead of most
    people. Experts in the field do not consider any backup system bulletproof.
    There are only varying degrees of risk. Murphy's law applies.

    Kerry
  24. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > A double failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply
    > is not unheard of.

    Okay, two more variables: bad controller and/or bad RAM

    Even IF both of these variables were to strike, AND my hard drive
    mechanically failed, I would just replace the motherboard (on which the SATA
    controller and RAM resides), buy a new system disk (or a new backup disk,
    depending on which one failed), reinstall the OS (if it was the system disk
    failed), and restore all my data from the good drive. Only a mechanical
    failure of both drives at the same time could cause data loss. Considering
    the MTBF of the drives and the statistical probability of both of them
    failing at the same time, I'd say that's bulletproof.
  25. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:aNyve.23$0V3.14@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >> A double failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply
    >> is not unheard of.
    >
    > Okay, two more variables: bad controller and/or bad RAM
    >
    > Even IF both of these variables were to strike, AND my hard drive
    > mechanically failed, I would just replace the motherboard (on which the
    > SATA
    > controller and RAM resides), buy a new system disk (or a new backup disk,
    > depending on which one failed), reinstall the OS (if it was the system
    > disk
    > failed), and restore all my data from the good drive. Only a mechanical
    > failure of both drives at the same time could cause data loss.
    > Considering
    > the MTBF of the drives and the statistical probability of both of them
    > failing at the same time, I'd say that's bulletproof.
    >
    >

    You really don't comprehend do you? Bad ram, controller or power supply
    could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed. A
    corrupt OS is probably the least likely reason why a backup would also
    become corrupted. Your method of backing up is good for quick backups. It is
    probably the least bulletproof of any backup method. Most knowledgable users
    use a similar method for quick backups and another method less often for
    redundancy.

    Kerry
  26. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    > Bad ram, controller or power supply
    > could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.

    So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
    hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason to
    maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
  27. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    deko wrote:

    >>Bad ram, controller or power supply
    >>could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.
    >
    >
    > So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
    > hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason to
    > maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
    >
    >

    The light finally goes on.

    --
    Rock
    MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
  28. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    "Rock" <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote in message
    news:ec%23fCwneFHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > deko wrote:
    >
    > >>Bad ram, controller or power supply
    > >>could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.
    > >
    > >
    > > So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
    > > hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason
    to
    > > maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > The light finally goes on.
    >
    > --
    > Rock
    > MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
    >

    I suspect it is a fairly dim bulb though ... sort of like
    a Christmas tree light maybe ...
  29. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    Just don't raise them close to deserted areas, some people might steal them
    to ride on

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Jayso

    Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :)

    Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
    Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
    jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


    "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote in message
    news:%2390pAhbeFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > Nope, granite releases Radon gas which is radioactive.
    > Better have a place on top of a mountain plain and the
    > second place in hyperspace.
    >
    > And there are a billion Muslims who might attack your pig
    > farm, better to raise camels.
    >
    >
    > "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    > news:hahve.33929$J12.19475@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    > |> No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the
    > computer-related business and
    > | > open a pig farm.
    > |
    > | But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be
    > truly safe, I'd need
    > | TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
    > |
    > |
    >
    >
  30. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

    You are so lucky, i wish i had the need for bullet-proof backup systems. My
    work has a backup system (like most should), but i probably won't be allowed
    to destroy the Windows Server 2003 O/S.

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Jayso

    Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :)

    Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
    Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
    jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


    "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
    news:Rirve.2274$N22.470@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >> If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
    >> then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
    > OS
    >> itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
    >> problem could happen on both drives.
    >
    > Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
    > likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap
    > multiple
    > drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
    > even more bulletproof.
    >
    > In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
    >
    >
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