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Bulletproof backup - how to test?

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Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:24:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that I
periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a corrupt
OS?

Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
system:

1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
2) delete C:\boot.ini
3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
and delete at random any 5 .dll files

If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.

So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system fail.

To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on my
System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing I
use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
periodically copied from my System disk.

The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system fail.

Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to it
and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:24:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
> I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
> corrupt
> OS?
>
> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
> system:
>
> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>
> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>
> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
> fail.
>
> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
> my
> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
> I
> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
> periodically copied from my System disk.
>
> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
> fail.
>
> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
> it
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:24:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
> I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
> corrupt
> OS?
>
> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
> system:
>
> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>
> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>
> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
> fail.
>
> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
> my
> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
> I
> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
> periodically copied from my System disk.
>
> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
> fail.
>
> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
> it
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>
>

How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging program
would be much quicker and easier to restore.

Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of backup.
For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal drive
like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I also
install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget and
the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media for
each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site. One
day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked area
not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the computer
is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due to
them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to restore
data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.

That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when not
being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the computer,
etc.

Kerry
Related resources
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:24:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows
XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
corrupt
> OS?
>
> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
> system:
>
> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>
> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>
> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
fail.
>
> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
my
> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
I
> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
> periodically copied from my System disk.
>
> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
fail.
>
> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
it
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>


My favorite test is to remove the drive, stick a blank new drive (or
formatted
old one) in and see if you can restore from your backup. Nothing like
having
a wonderful backup scheme - - - then you find when it really trashes itself,
the one piece of the puzzle missing (like a driver for the SATA) is not
available
or you forgot to set something up so you could boot up the restore software.
If it is a good process, the system should come back up and not have a clue
the drive has changed (and if it doesn't, you have not trashed the good
drive
that was working). Drives are cheap -- worth trying it that way. And to be
really good, you need to have a copy of the backup off-site AND along with
the backup, have complete information on the system configuration so if it
is
stolen, crushed, burned etc, you can get back to where you were (handy for
insurance purposes also -- have pix).

mikey
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:36:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

After reinstalling XP, you will probably have to "take
ownership" of the backup folders on the other drive. Also,
if you use data encryption, you will need to take steps to
be able to gain access to those files.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:eguVE7XeFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
| Format your Window partition. You can't get any more
corrupt than that (-:
|
| --
| Regards,
|
| Richard Urban
|
| aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
|
| If you knew as much as you thought you know,
| You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
knew!
|
|
| "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
| news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
| >I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting
my OS (Windows XP).
| > My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal
SATA hard drive that
| > I
| > periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my
backup disk will
| > somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS
corruption - even after
| > reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible
for the Partition
| > Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get
screwed up by a
| > corrupt
| > OS?
| >
| > Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the
Windows XP operating
| > system:
| >
| > 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
| > more info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
| > 2) delete C:\boot.ini
| > 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
| > 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files
by Type, and select
| > and delete at random any 5 .dll files
| >
| > If anyone can think of other options that could
potentially make my
| > secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
| >
| > So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this
backup system
| > fail.
| >
| > To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to
reinstall Windows XP on
| > my
| > System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup
disk to my System
| > disk. All data and system files reside on my System
disk; the only thing
| > I
| > use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data
(only data),
| > periodically copied from my System disk.
| >
| > The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my
backup system
| > fail.
| >
| > Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and
take my System disk
| > with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect
my Backup disk to
| > it
| > and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
| >
| >
|
|
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:16:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:

That would do it. But I'm also interested in more subtle and sinister ideas
that have the potential to cause the data on my secondary internal disk to
become inaccessible - even after I reinstall the OS on my primary system
disk.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 7:09:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

deko wrote:
>
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!

No such thing as a bullet proof single media backup system. One can
perhaps, get to 99% by using two different forms of media and storing
one form off site.








--
http://www.bootdisk.com/
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 7:09:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

deko wrote:
>
> I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will

ps your method is probably the LEAST reliable of any.





--
http://www.bootdisk.com/
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 12:09:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging program
> would be much quicker and easier to restore.
>
> Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of
backup.
> For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal drive
> like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
> programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I
also
> install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget and
> the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
> can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
> media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media
for
> each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site.
One
> day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
> site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked area
> not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
> schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
> computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the
computer
> is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
> available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
> set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due to
> them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to
restore
> data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
> computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
> proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.
>
> That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
> wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
> good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when
not
> being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
> disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
> things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
> playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the
computer,
> etc.

Thanks for the reply. Good ideas, to be sure.

But the one thing I am trying to test is this:

Can a corrupted OS somehow make my secondary internal (non-system) disk
inaccessible - even after a reinstall of the OS on a new primary system
disk. As far as I can tell, the answer is no.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 12:52:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:7Sive.33958$J12.2667@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> How quick do you want the recovery process to work? A disk imaging
>> program
>> would be much quicker and easier to restore.
>>
>> Any bulletproof recovery system must include at least two methods of
> backup.
>> For businesses that cannot afford to loose data I set up an internal
>> drive
>> like you have but with either a disk imaging program or ntbackup. These
>> programs can be easily automated so no user interaction is necessary. I
> also
>> install either a tape drive or a DVD writer, depending on their budget
>> and
>> the amount of data. I prefer tape if at all possible but not Travan. This
>> can also be automated with the only user interaction being changing the
>> media on a daily basis. This system is used daily with a different media
> for
>> each day. There are at least two extra media. These are stored off site.
> One
>> day a week the oldest off site media is brought on site and the newest on
>> site media is taken off site. The on site media is stored in a locked
>> area
>> not near the computer. The media is replaced with new media on a regular
>> schedule depending on what type of media. In extreme cases I set up a
>> computer with the exact same hardware and keep it off site. If the
> computer
>> is stolen the duplicate computer can be brought on site and the newest
>> available backup restored within a couple of hours. Customers that I have
>> set up have never lost more than a weeks worth of data and this was due
>> to
>> them not following procedures. The most common causes of needing to
> restore
>> data is due to user error, a failed hard drive, followed by a stolen
>> computer. Corruption due to virrii and spyware is way down the list if
>> proper protection is installed and safe hex is practiced.
>>
>> That is my experience. In your situation relying on an internal drive
>> wouldn't help with a stolen computer. Even using an external drive is no
>> good in that situation unless the external drive is kept elsewhere when
> not
>> being used. If your data is important rather than thinking backup think
>> disaster recovery. This includes other things than OS corruption. Some
>> things to think about are fire, flood, theft, hardware failure, the kids
>> playing indoor hockey, the cat chasing a bug and knocking over the
> computer,
>> etc.
>
> Thanks for the reply. Good ideas, to be sure.
>
> But the one thing I am trying to test is this:
>
> Can a corrupted OS somehow make my secondary internal (non-system) disk
> inaccessible - even after a reinstall of the OS on a new primary system
> disk. As far as I can tell, the answer is no.
>
>

If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the OS
itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
problem could happen on both drives.

Kerry
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:32:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
process, lol.

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Jayso

Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :) 

Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
jayso_chinnery@spamfreehotmail.com.au (remove spamfree)


"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
> I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
> corrupt
> OS?
>
> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
> system:
>
> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>
> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>
> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
> fail.
>
> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
> my
> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
> I
> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
> periodically copied from my System disk.
>
> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
> fail.
>
> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
> it
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:32:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
> process, lol.

During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly corrupt"?
If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has a
flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
of having a Bulletproof backup.


"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:wRbve.2021$N22.1151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
>> process, lol.
>
> During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly
> corrupt"?
> If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has
> a
> flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

The only bulletproof backup is what big corps do. They have
full RAID systems, off-line, off site storage in many
locations. When the WTC fell, most companies (not the FBI)
had little data loss because they had automatic duplication
in NYC, Chicago, KC or Utah. Fire, flood or terrorist
attack or just a virus can get your data if it is all in the
same place.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:wRbve.2021$N22.1151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
|> What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts
itself during the
| > process, lol.
|
| During the process of what? How could the second drive
"suddenly corrupt"?
| If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my
backup system has a
| flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
|
|
June 26, 2005 1:33:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

deko wrote:

>>What happens if the second hard drive suddenly corrupts itself during the
>>process, lol.
>
>
> During the process of what? How could the second drive "suddenly corrupt"?
> If you can duplicate this problem in real life, then my backup system has a
> flaw. If not, then the system remains bulletproof.
>
>

Bulletproof? Dream on. What you have is better than no backup but
there are many failure mechanisms that can disable the system.

1. Power surges (lightning strikes, PSU failure...)
2. Natural disaster (flood, fire...
3. Human intervention (oops, theft, malicious mischief...)
4. Mechanical failure of the drives.
5. Malware

Bakcup to external media and store generations of that off site.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
> your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
> Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
> possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
> if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
> semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
> of having a Bulletproof backup.

Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from Power
Supply over-voltage spikes. Is that all you can think of? The main concern
I have is the OS somehow buttering up the drive's MBR or something like
that - but risk has to be realistic. That's why I am purposely corrupting
my OS in as many ways as possible to test for this.
June 26, 2005 1:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:Cocve.2043$N22.874@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > Nothing in a PC is "Bulletproof". Utilizing a second hard drive as
> > your primary recovery isn't 100%. As just one example, if your
> > Power Supply suddenly generates an over-voltage spike, it is
> > possible for both disk drives to suffer a complete failure. Only
> > if your backup/image is stored "Off" the PC on some type of
> > semi-permanent media (CD/DVD-R) disk can you even think
> > of having a Bulletproof backup.
>
> Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from Power
> Supply over-voltage spikes.
But you aren't protected from spikes on the AC power lines.
Jim
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

deko wrote:
>
> Okay, so I use an external drive enclosure. Now I'm protected from
> Power Supply over-voltage spikes. Is that all you can think of?

Of course not!

We had a customer in South Carolina who was burglarized three times in ten
days. Every time the do-bads stole everything that even remotely looked
computerish.

We had another customer in Hollister, California that was the epicenter of
the San Francisco earthquake. His building collapsed on his computer. Then a
fire broke out.

Fortunately the fire was extinguished by 40,000 tons of tomato paste from
the warehouse across the street which formed a flood of red ooze.

Over the years we've encountered - among our users - a handfull of employee
malice cases.

No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the computer-related business and
open a pig farm.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the computer-related business and
> open a pig farm.

But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be truly safe, I'd need
TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:33:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Nope, granite releases Radon gas which is radioactive.
Better have a place on top of a mountain plain and the
second place in hyperspace.

And there are a billion Muslims who might attack your pig
farm, better to raise camels.


"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:hahve.33929$J12.19475@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
|> No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the
computer-related business and
| > open a pig farm.
|
| But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be
truly safe, I'd need
| TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
|
|
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:35:42 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I guess an easy way to destroy the O/S is to delete the windows folder
(including System 32). You might need DOS to acheive this. Some things DOS
might not be able to delete, the reason for most of these are attribute
settings, or files in use (use win 98 startup disk or something with DOS on
it)

Please reply to let me know how your reckless experiment goes

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Jayso

Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :) 

Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
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"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows XP).
> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
> I
> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
> corrupt
> OS?
>
> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP operating
> system:
>
> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and select
> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>
> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>
> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
> fail.
>
> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
> my
> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
> I
> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
> periodically copied from my System disk.
>
> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
> fail.
>
> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
> it
> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 2:17:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

oh but that's not any fun, this is supposed to be a FUN exercise

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Jayso

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Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
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"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eguVE7XeFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Format your Window partition. You can't get any more corrupt than that (-:
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
>
> aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
>
> If you knew as much as you thought you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
>
> "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
> news:I9bve.3885$Bx6.3218@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>I want to test my backup system by purposely corrupting my OS (Windows
>>XP).
>> My backup system is nothing but a secondary internal SATA hard drive that
>> I
>> periodically copy my data to. My concern is that my backup disk will
>> somehow become inaccessible in the event of an OS corruption - even after
>> reinstalling my OS on my System disk. Is it possible for the Partition
>> Table (or some other thing) of my Backup disk to get screwed up by a
>> corrupt
>> OS?
>>
>> Here are some suggested ways to purposely corrupt the Windows XP
>> operating
>> system:
>>
>> 1) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\Hall.dll
>> more info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=314477
>> 2) delete C:\boot.ini
>> 3) delete C:\WINDOWS\system32\secur32.dll
>> 4) open the C:\WINDOWS\System32 folder, sort the files by Type, and
>> select
>> and delete at random any 5 .dll files
>>
>> If anyone can think of other options that could potentially make my
>> secondary internal HDD inaccessible, please let me know.
>>
>> So far, I have not been able to find a way to make this backup system
>> fail.
>>
>> To recover my data in case of disaster, I plan to reinstall Windows XP on
>> my
>> System disk, and then copy all my data from my Backup disk to my System
>> disk. All data and system files reside on my System disk; the only thing
>> I
>> use the Backup disk for is a secondary copy of my data (only data),
>> periodically copied from my System disk.
>>
>> The exercise at hand is to somehow find a way to make my backup system
>> fail.
>>
>> Even if the motherboard in my PC were to meltdown and take my System disk
>> with it, I could still buy a new PC and simply connect my Backup disk to
>> it
>> and recover all my data! This system is bulletproof!!
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:46:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
> then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
OS
> itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
> problem could happen on both drives.

Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap multiple
drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
even more bulletproof.

In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:46:26 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:Rirve.2274$N22.470@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
>> then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
> OS
>> itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
>> problem could happen on both drives.
>
> Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
> likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap
> multiple
> drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
> even more bulletproof.
>
> In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
>
>

If you still persist in thinking your backup method is bulletproof then you
are deluded. There has not been one post that agrees with you. A double
failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply is not unheard of.
It is good that you are doing backups. That puts you way ahead of most
people. Experts in the field do not consider any backup system bulletproof.
There are only varying degrees of risk. Murphy's law applies.

Kerry
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 6:16:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> A double failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply
> is not unheard of.

Okay, two more variables: bad controller and/or bad RAM

Even IF both of these variables were to strike, AND my hard drive
mechanically failed, I would just replace the motherboard (on which the SATA
controller and RAM resides), buy a new system disk (or a new backup disk,
depending on which one failed), reinstall the OS (if it was the system disk
failed), and restore all my data from the good drive. Only a mechanical
failure of both drives at the same time could cause data loss. Considering
the MTBF of the drives and the statistical probability of both of them
failing at the same time, I'd say that's bulletproof.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 6:16:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:aNyve.23$0V3.14@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>> A double failure from bad ram, bad controller, or bad power supply
>> is not unheard of.
>
> Okay, two more variables: bad controller and/or bad RAM
>
> Even IF both of these variables were to strike, AND my hard drive
> mechanically failed, I would just replace the motherboard (on which the
> SATA
> controller and RAM resides), buy a new system disk (or a new backup disk,
> depending on which one failed), reinstall the OS (if it was the system
> disk
> failed), and restore all my data from the good drive. Only a mechanical
> failure of both drives at the same time could cause data loss.
> Considering
> the MTBF of the drives and the statistical probability of both of them
> failing at the same time, I'd say that's bulletproof.
>
>

You really don't comprehend do you? Bad ram, controller or power supply
could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed. A
corrupt OS is probably the least likely reason why a backup would also
become corrupted. Your method of backing up is good for quick backups. It is
probably the least bulletproof of any backup method. Most knowledgable users
use a similar method for quick backups and another method less often for
redundancy.

Kerry
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:14:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> Bad ram, controller or power supply
> could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.

So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason to
maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
June 26, 2005 7:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

deko wrote:

>>Bad ram, controller or power supply
>>could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.
>
>
> So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
> hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason to
> maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
>
>

The light finally goes on.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:14:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Rock" <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ec%23fCwneFHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> deko wrote:
>
> >>Bad ram, controller or power supply
> >>could easily corrupt both hard drives before the corruption is noticed.
> >
> >
> > So data corruption (as opposed to OS corruption) can be caused by faulty
> > hardware and render useless ANY connected drive? That's a good reason
to
> > maintain a copy of my data on disconnected media.
> >
> >
>
> The light finally goes on.
>
> --
> Rock
> MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
>

I suspect it is a fairly dim bulb though ... sort of like
a Christmas tree light maybe ...
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:19:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Just don't raise them close to deserted areas, some people might steal them
to ride on

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Jayso

Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :) 

Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
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"Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote in message
news:%2390pAhbeFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Nope, granite releases Radon gas which is radioactive.
> Better have a place on top of a mountain plain and the
> second place in hyperspace.
>
> And there are a billion Muslims who might attack your pig
> farm, better to raise camels.
>
>
> "deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
> news:hahve.33929$J12.19475@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> |> No, to be truely safe, you must abandon the
> computer-related business and
> | > open a pig farm.
> |
> | But what if a meteoroid were to hit the farm???? To be
> truly safe, I'd need
> | TWO farms - on different continents in granite mines.
> |
> |
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:54:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

You are so lucky, i wish i had the need for bullet-proof backup systems. My
work has a backup system (like most should), but i probably won't be allowed
to destroy the Windows Server 2003 O/S.

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Jayso

Please reply to this email so I know if i'm right :) 

Good in Home Networking, XP Home based problems, and Pro based Problems
Add my email to MSN Messenger if u wish
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"deko" <deko@deko.com> wrote in message
news:Rirve.2274$N22.470@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> If the corrupted OS was caused by bad ram or a bad hard drive controller
>> then the same thing could cause corrupted files on both drives. So no the
> OS
>> itself wouldn't corrupt the second drive but it is possible that the same
>> problem could happen on both drives.
>
> Yes, but that would be a "double failure" - something that's not very
> likely. With a removable HDD tray for the second drive, I can swap
> multiple
> drives in and out (and store off site if I want), which would make things
> even more bulletproof.
>
> In any case, I am still having fun corrupting my OS to see what happens...
>
>
!