Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Whatever happened to Venture sectors?

Last response: in Video Games
Share
February 25, 2005 2:23:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors, where you
convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option. How acome
deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this removed
from the server code?

Lloyd
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:29:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

"Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:

> I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors, where you
> convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option. How acome
> deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this removed
> from the server code?

Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
never in the Wolfpack code.

Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.

Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.

So what do you get for all your trouble?

* An income source that is a function of population. That already
exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
sublinear, but that could be changed easily.

* A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
exist: banks, capitals.

In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
with ventures.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 2:05:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

Very eloquently put, Markus. I couldn't agree more with your comments.

Mr. Ed

"Markus Armbruster" <armbru@pond.sub.org> wrote in message
news:87vf8ht7vl.fsf@pond.sub.org...
> "Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:
>
> > I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors,
where you
> > convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option.
How acome
> > deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this
removed
> > from the server code?
>
> Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
> never in the Wolfpack code.
>
> Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
> the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
> a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
> venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
> no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
> communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
> production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.
>
> Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
> iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
> competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
> use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
> pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
> the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
> distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
> population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
> sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.
>
> So what do you get for all your trouble?
>
> * An income source that is a function of population. That already
> exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
> sublinear, but that could be changed easily.
>
> * A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
> near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
> exist: banks, capitals.
>
> In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
> set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
> players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
> with ventures.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:17:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

I also agree with most of Markus's comments, but then I ask
myself, WHY ARE THERE TRADESHIPS?

Don't tradeships serve a similar purpose as venture sectors?

-Trade Ships turn excess CMs into Cash
-Trade Ships are vulnerable
-Trade Ships make game balance tricky
-Trade Ships are just an exercise in ship building pipelines
-Trade Ships are proportional to a country's size (or population)

The thing I hate most about trade ships, is it makes everyone want
to be friendly so that they can 'cash-in'. IMHO, it turns into a game
where the fodders get excluded because they cannot make trade
ships and further lose out. At least with Venture sectors, all
countries had an equal chance to make the same amount of $
with the asymtopic functions used in the IW games. I liked
venture sectors too!

I think that deities should be allowed to determine how to balance
their games. Wolfpack (and other experienced deities) should
provide guidance for how to set up a game, and the importance
of game balance. I've played in some games with 1200 sector
start continents. Wow they are intense, but they get out of
hand, quickly.

Sometimes deities need to try stuff and see how the player base
likes or dislikes it. It appears that Venture sectors now have
[at least] 2 fans.

-Bungy




"Mr. Ed" <resvon@hotmailoryahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4220c7c9$0$456$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Very eloquently put, Markus. I couldn't agree more with your comments.
>
> Mr. Ed
>
> "Markus Armbruster" <armbru@pond.sub.org> wrote in message
> news:87vf8ht7vl.fsf@pond.sub.org...
> > "Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:
> >
> > > I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors,
> where you
> > > convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option.
> How acome
> > > deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this
> removed
> > > from the server code?
> >
> > Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
> > never in the Wolfpack code.
> >
> > Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
> > the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
> > a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
> > venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
> > no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
> > communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
> > production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.
> >
> > Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
> > iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
> > competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
> > use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
> > pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
> > the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
> > distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
> > population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
> > sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.
> >
> > So what do you get for all your trouble?
> >
> > * An income source that is a function of population. That already
> > exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
> > sublinear, but that could be changed easily.
> >
> > * A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
> > near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
> > exist: banks, capitals.
> >
> > In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
> > set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
> > players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
> > with ventures.
>
>
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:56:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

"Bungholio" <empire_bungholioNOSAPM@verizon.net> writes:

> I also agree with most of Markus's comments, but then I ask
> myself, WHY ARE THERE TRADESHIPS?

Good question.

[...]
> Wolfpack (and other experienced deities) should
> provide guidance for how to set up a game, and the importance
> of game balance. I've played in some games with 1200 sector
> start continents. Wow they are intense, but they get out of
> hand, quickly.

We could use a Deity's Manual, with a chapter on game setup.

> Sometimes deities need to try stuff and see how the player base
> likes or dislikes it.
[...]

Absolutely. No progress without experimentation.
!