Whatever happened to Venture sectors?

Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors, where you
convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option. How acome
deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this removed
from the server code?

Lloyd
4 answers Last reply
More about whatever happened venture sectors
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

    "Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:

    > I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors, where you
    > convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option. How acome
    > deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this removed
    > from the server code?

    Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
    never in the Wolfpack code.

    Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
    the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
    a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
    venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
    no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
    communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
    production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.

    Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
    iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
    competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
    use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
    pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
    the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
    distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
    population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
    sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.

    So what do you get for all your trouble?

    * An income source that is a function of population. That already
    exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
    sublinear, but that could be changed easily.

    * A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
    near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
    exist: banks, capitals.

    In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
    set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
    players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
    with ventures.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

    Very eloquently put, Markus. I couldn't agree more with your comments.

    Mr. Ed

    "Markus Armbruster" <armbru@pond.sub.org> wrote in message
    news:87vf8ht7vl.fsf@pond.sub.org...
    > "Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:
    >
    > > I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors,
    where you
    > > convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option.
    How acome
    > > deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this
    removed
    > > from the server code?
    >
    > Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
    > never in the Wolfpack code.
    >
    > Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
    > the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
    > a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
    > venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
    > no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
    > communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
    > production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.
    >
    > Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
    > iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
    > competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
    > use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
    > pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
    > the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
    > distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
    > population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
    > sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.
    >
    > So what do you get for all your trouble?
    >
    > * An income source that is a function of population. That already
    > exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
    > sublinear, but that could be changed easily.
    >
    > * A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
    > near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
    > exist: banks, capitals.
    >
    > In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
    > set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
    > players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
    > with ventures.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

    I also agree with most of Markus's comments, but then I ask
    myself, WHY ARE THERE TRADESHIPS?

    Don't tradeships serve a similar purpose as venture sectors?

    -Trade Ships turn excess CMs into Cash
    -Trade Ships are vulnerable
    -Trade Ships make game balance tricky
    -Trade Ships are just an exercise in ship building pipelines
    -Trade Ships are proportional to a country's size (or population)

    The thing I hate most about trade ships, is it makes everyone want
    to be friendly so that they can 'cash-in'. IMHO, it turns into a game
    where the fodders get excluded because they cannot make trade
    ships and further lose out. At least with Venture sectors, all
    countries had an equal chance to make the same amount of $
    with the asymtopic functions used in the IW games. I liked
    venture sectors too!

    I think that deities should be allowed to determine how to balance
    their games. Wolfpack (and other experienced deities) should
    provide guidance for how to set up a game, and the importance
    of game balance. I've played in some games with 1200 sector
    start continents. Wow they are intense, but they get out of
    hand, quickly.

    Sometimes deities need to try stuff and see how the player base
    likes or dislikes it. It appears that Venture sectors now have
    [at least] 2 fans.

    -Bungy


    "Mr. Ed" <resvon@hotmailoryahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:4220c7c9$0$456$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    > Very eloquently put, Markus. I couldn't agree more with your comments.
    >
    > Mr. Ed
    >
    > "Markus Armbruster" <armbru@pond.sub.org> wrote in message
    > news:87vf8ht7vl.fsf@pond.sub.org...
    > > "Lloyd" <Lloyd.FergussenNOSPAM@aol.com> writes:
    > >
    > > > I remember playing in a game a few years ago that had Venture sectors,
    > where you
    > > > convert lcm/hcms into extra cash. I really liked that server option.
    > How acome
    > > > deities don't use this option in the current games anymore? Was this
    > removed
    > > > from the server code?
    > >
    > > Venture sectors were developed in the Ice World games. They were
    > > never in the Wolfpack code.
    > >
    > > Venture sectors make game balance tricky. Too much money is bad for
    > > the game. Overabundant mineral resources, normally harmless, becomes
    > > a serious problem. I feel stock fairland resources are too rich with
    > > venture sectors. Moreover, extracting and using all that iron leaves
    > > no space for highways. Highways rock. They are about lines of
    > > communication, which is more interesting to me than maximizing
    > > production in an economic model as simple as Empire's.
    > >
    > > Have a look at ventures from another angle. There are two uses for
    > > iron in the stock game: construction and tech. With ventures, a
    > > competitive player will use all excess iron he can make for a third
    > > use: money. It's just an exercise in setting up venture production
    > > pipelines. The number of goods he can make is roughly proportional to
    > > the mineral contents of his productive land. Assuming fair
    > > distribution, that's roughly proportional to population. I use
    > > population instead of land, because land includes mountains and
    > > sectors shelled to dust. Population is a better measure.
    > >
    > > So what do you get for all your trouble?
    > >
    > > * An income source that is a function of population. That already
    > > exists: tax. Sure, it's a linear function, while venture is
    > > sublinear, but that could be changed easily.
    > >
    > > * A high value sector you need to protect: getting ventures damaged
    > > near the update can easily bankrupt you. Those sectors already
    > > exist: banks, capitals.
    > >
    > > In my opinion, this is not enough to justify the extra player load to
    > > set up and maintain ventures. But I'm not the arbiter of Empire, the
    > > players are. If enough players like ventures, there will be games
    > > with ventures.
    >
    >
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.empire (More info?)

    "Bungholio" <empire_bungholioNOSAPM@verizon.net> writes:

    > I also agree with most of Markus's comments, but then I ask
    > myself, WHY ARE THERE TRADESHIPS?

    Good question.

    [...]
    > Wolfpack (and other experienced deities) should
    > provide guidance for how to set up a game, and the importance
    > of game balance. I've played in some games with 1200 sector
    > start continents. Wow they are intense, but they get out of
    > hand, quickly.

    We could use a Deity's Manual, with a chapter on game setup.

    > Sometimes deities need to try stuff and see how the player base
    > likes or dislikes it.
    [...]

    Absolutely. No progress without experimentation.
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