Science Question #2 - Re-Entry Vehicles

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

.... and here's question #2:

Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?

The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
to believe it.

Thanks again and all the best!
25 answers Last reply
More about science question entry vehicles
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
    can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
    >... and here's question #2:
    >
    >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    >The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    >hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    >civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    >had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    >spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

    And Tesla was an extra-terrestrial. Don't spend too much time on this
    sort of thing.

    >
    >Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    >would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    >to believe it.
    >
    >Thanks again and all the best!

    Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
    and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
    spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
    in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
    as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

    --
    "The main, if not the only, function of the word aether has been to
    furnish a nominative case to the verb 'to undulate'."
    -- the Earl of Salisbury, 1894
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
    <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

    >... and here's question #2:
    >
    >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?

    <snip>

    According to everything I know about physics (and I'll admit that I'm
    not a physicist of any sort), anti-gravity can't work at all.

    If it's your game, just say that it works and be done with it. (How
    many people can describe how a microwave oven works, beyond "you plug it
    in and push the buttons, oh, and don't use metal dishes"? They just
    know that it works, and are done with it.) If anyone asks, fall back on
    hand-waving: "It's good old Human know-how, son!"

    --
    Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
    "And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be a
    little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other fringe
    groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil on rec.arts.anime.misc, 20 Jan 2004
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
    <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

    >... and here's question #2:
    >
    >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    >The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    >hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    >civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    >had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    >spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

    You're looking for crackpot theories then?
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    >Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
    >and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
    >spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
    >in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
    >as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

    It's a good point. Getting too involved with the technical minutia
    really bogs down a good story whether it's GURPS, gameplay in a video
    game, a novel or whatever.

    But MAN it's hard to kick the gearhead habit! I could spend days just
    designing vehicles for a campaign and then remember that there should
    be a plotline in there somewhere. That's why I'm hooked on GURPS.

    >If anyone asks, fall back on
    >hand-waving: "It's good old Human know-how, son!"

    I'm a big fan of hand-waving, really comes in handy when dealing with
    work or family.

    >You're looking for crackpot theories then?

    Heh, heh... crackpot's all I got.
    All I'm trying to do is add a little depth to the game like "Does this
    lifter pod project a field of repulsion (and if so does it affect
    whatever's underneath it) or does it project a field around the
    vehicle which reduces mass? Is it going to give me cancer!?"
    Or..." if that lifter cell gets hit by incoming fire, is it going to
    explode and take everything nearby with it?"

    By the way, has anyone tried the Corps Vehicle Design System by BTRC?
    I've been thinking about buying it.
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
    > ... and here's question #2:
    >
    > Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    > on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    > The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    > hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    > civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    > had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    > spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
    >
    > Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    > would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    > to believe it.
    >
    > Thanks again and all the best!

    I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
    ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
    disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
    bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
    of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
    haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
    plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
    electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
    means.


    Ralph Glatt
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Ralph Glatt wrote:

    > I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
    > ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
    > disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
    > bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
    > of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
    > haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
    > plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
    > electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
    > means.

    He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
    gravity, practically or theoretically.

    --
    ZZzz |\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
    /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
    |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
    '---''(_/--' `-'\_)
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Travis Casey wrote:
    > Ralph Glatt wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
    >>ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
    >>disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
    >>bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
    >>of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
    >>haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
    >>plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
    >>electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
    >>means.
    >
    >
    > He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
    > gravity, practically or theoretically.
    >

    Obviously, the disc are not spinning fast enough ;-)

    --- Shawn
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
    <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

    >... and here's question #2:
    >
    >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    >The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    >hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    >civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    >had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    >spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.


    Ahhh, found the quote I was looking for:

    "The triangular TR-3B was purportedly developed under the auspices of
    the top-secret National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and the Central
    Intelligence Agency (CIA) under the Air Force's super-duper Top Secret
    Aurora Program. Code named "Astra," the TR-3B -- incorporating
    captured "alien" technology -- is said to use highly pressured mercury
    accelerated by nuclear energy to produce a plasma that creates a field
    of "anti-gravity" around the ship. Conventional thrusters located at
    the tips of the craft allow it to perform all manner of rapid high
    speed maneuvers along all three axes.
    Reports are that at least three TR-3Bs began operating out of Groom
    Lake (Area 51) in 1994 and have since been spotted all over the world.
    A centerpiece of modern UFO lore, the TR-3B was frequently seen
    (albeit it briefly and obscurely) in several episodes of Fox-TV's "The
    X-Files" TV series of the 1990s."

    From Starship Modeller dot com.

    Sounds as good a crackpot theory as any... I'll use it!
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    can't believe its not buddha wrote:

    >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    That's easy.

    We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
    lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
    back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
    and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
    spinning, unable to land at all.

    There you go.

    Luke
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    "Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
    news:co2a3h$nv6$6@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
    > In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
    > can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
    > >... and here's question #2:
    > >
    > >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    > >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    > >
    <<snip>>
    > >Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    > >would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    > >to believe it.
    > >
    > >Thanks again and all the best!
    >
    > Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
    > and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
    > spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
    > in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
    > as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

    For any sort of fiction I think you are right (but I'll be damned if
    I'll get on an airplane designed by someone who doesn't aerodynamics *g*).

    The best idea for a game, piece of fiction, et al is not to get bogged
    down too much in detail but keep it consistent.

    The idea of using gravity also leads to some effects which might not be
    apparent at first. Depending on how much energy it takes to power a device
    it can not only be used for lifting off a planet but also for space travel.
    You create a gravity well in front of the ship and the ship "falls" into the
    gravity well you created. Light (lasers) are effected by gravity so it can
    also be used to bend light around an object (immune to lasers, as well as
    being able to function like a cloaking device). On another turn it can also
    be used as a weapon. If you have some focusing control on how and where you
    make the gravity well you can create a nice little 8 or 9 G spot inside the
    reactor of another ship and have the containment (as well as the whole
    engineering section) system collapse in on itself. Imagine what you can do
    to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
    might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
    magma, and fault zones.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    "LukeCampbell" <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message
    news:coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu...
    > can't believe its not buddha wrote:
    >
    > >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    > >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    > >
    > That's easy.
    >
    > We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
    > lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
    > back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
    > and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
    > spinning, unable to land at all.
    >
    > There you go.
    >
    > Luke
    >

    *hurrily cleaning spit out coffee off my screen*

    I HAVE to use that next time someone in a game says that they are
    opening up the compart that the anvti-gav units are housed in!
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Running Wolf wrote:
    > ... Imagine what you can do
    > to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
    > might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
    > magma, and fault zones.
    >

    Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
    magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
    you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)

    --- Shawn
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
    > ... and here's question #2:
    >
    > Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    > on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >
    > The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    > hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    > civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    > had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    > spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
    >
    > Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    > would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    > to believe it.
    >
    > Thanks again and all the best!

    The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
    Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
    prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
    miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
    magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
    weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
    speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
    mass is related to the speed it travels. This would mean if someone
    could engineer a well-crafted magnetic vortex they could cause an atom
    to start vibrating in a circular path, and at a very high frequency
    make this atom vibrate close to the speed of light making it weigh
    less. Now, if you are real good instead of one atom vibrating you make
    all the atoms in the craft vibrate, if you could make the craft do
    this, it would weigh almost nothing, then in which case you would not
    have to provide much trust at all to get air bone or to travel very
    very very fast. This is not as far fetched as it sounds this is
    plausible.

    thanks
    Tim
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    I tried to send this once already so this may end up a double post.


    The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
    Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
    prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
    miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
    magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
    weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
    speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
    mass is related to the speed it travels. This would mean if someone
    could engineer a well-crafted magnetic vortex they could cause an atom
    to start vibrating in a circular path, and at a very high frequency
    make this atom vibrate close to the speed of light making it weigh
    less. Now, if you are real good instead of one atom vibrating you make
    all the atoms in the craft vibrate, if you could make the craft do
    this, it would weigh almost nothing, then in which case you would not
    have to provide much trust at all to get air bone or to travel very
    very very fast. This is not as far fetched as it sounds this is
    plausible.

    Thanks

    Tim
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Shawn Corey wrote:
    >
    > Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
    > magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
    > you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
    >
    > --- Shawn

    Oops, on second thought, the tides will be effected: they will be
    smaller. The increased gravity will hold them down.

    Some other effects:

    The atmosphere will compress. People living at altitude may find the air
    less dense and suffer from altitude sickness. If the gravity is suddenly
    released, people at sea-level may suffer from the bends.

    Baseballs and golf balls will not go as far. Not only will gravity pull
    the to the earth quicker, the thicker atmosphere will slow them faster.
    However, the thicker air will cause a greater curve to them.

    --- Shawn
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Tim Brooks wrote:

    > can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
    >
    >>... and here's question #2:
    >>
    >>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >>
    >>The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
    >>hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
    >>civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
    >>had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
    >>spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
    >>
    >>Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    >>would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    >>to believe it.
    >>
    >>Thanks again and all the best!
    >
    >
    > The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
    > Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
    > prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
    > miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
    > magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
    > weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
    > speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
    > mass is related to the speed it travels.

    Object mass is related to the speed it travels, but you have it
    backward, it doesn't go to zero. (*Dang, can't remember the formula*)
    but it had rest mass times a square root that had (c-v)^2 in the
    denominator. When velocity v got real close to c the denominator became
    very small, and hence the multiplyer of the rest mass became large.
    When velocity equals c, you're deviding by zero, so you could say that
    mass becomes infinite. When velocity exceeds c, you are taking the
    square root of a negative number, so some people say you end up with
    imaginary mass or negative mass, neither of which Einstein said.

    Time also changes as you close in on the speed of light, so from an
    external view, the nuclear (or chemical, or whatever) source of power
    slows down its reaction producing less energy. (Of course it's all
    relative, as the observers in the fast moving vehicle see the outside
    universe as slowing down, and their own reactions taking the normal
    about of time. Isn't paradox fun?)

    >
    > thanks
    > Tim

    Tom A.
    "When Ben Casey meets Kildare - you have a pair of docs" - Alan Sherman
    _Plurals_
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    This is great. Super non-logic. Perfect.

    --
    Regards

    Thomas Tomiczek
    THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
    (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
    (CTO PowerNodes Ltd.)
    ---

    Still waiting for ObjectSpaces? Try the EntityBroker today - more versatile,
    more powerfull.
    And something in use NOW. for the projects you have to deliver - NOW.


    "LukeCampbell" <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message
    news:coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu...
    > can't believe its not buddha wrote:
    >
    >>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >>
    > That's easy.
    >
    > We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
    > lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
    > back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
    > and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
    > spinning, unable to land at all.
    >
    > There you go.
    >
    > Luke
    >
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    LukeCampbell <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message news:<coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu>...
    > can't believe its not buddha wrote:
    >
    > >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    > >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    > >
    > That's easy.
    >
    > We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
    > lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
    > back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
    > and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
    > spinning, unable to land at all.
    >
    > There you g0.

    Ah, so that's how it's done! All this time, I've been trying to throw
    myself to the ground and miss.


    Ralph Glatt
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    In article <41ab1a83$1_2@alt.athenanews.com>,
    Running Wolf <no_spam@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
    >news:co2a3h$nv6$6@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
    >> In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
    >> can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
    >> >... and here's question #2:
    >> >
    >> >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
    >> >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
    >> >
    ><<snip>>
    >> >Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
    >> >would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
    >> >to believe it.
    >> >
    >> >Thanks again and all the best!
    >>
    >> Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
    >> and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
    >> spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
    >> in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
    >> as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.
    >
    > For any sort of fiction I think you are right (but I'll be damned if
    >I'll get on an airplane designed by someone who doesn't aerodynamics *g*).
    >
    > The best idea for a game, piece of fiction, et al is not to get bogged
    >down too much in detail but keep it consistent.
    >
    > The idea of using gravity also leads to some effects which might not be
    >apparent at first. Depending on how much energy it takes to power a device
    >it can not only be used for lifting off a planet but also for space travel.
    >You create a gravity well in front of the ship and the ship "falls" into the
    >gravity well you created. Light (lasers) are effected by gravity so it can
    >also be used to bend light around an object (immune to lasers, as well as
    >being able to function like a cloaking device). On another turn it can also
    >be used as a weapon. If you have some focusing control on how and where you
    >make the gravity well you can create a nice little 8 or 9 G spot inside the
    >reactor of another ship and have the containment (as well as the whole
    >engineering section) system collapse in on itself. Imagine what you can do
    >to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
    >might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
    >magma, and fault zones.

    Yeah, that's the other thing. Don't worry too much about HOW the
    technology works, but have a good idea what it does, and what are the
    consequences. Like does your antigravity drive push away from masses like
    the Earth (the Earth acts as reaction mass), or is it an inertialess
    rocket? Is it like a hovercraft that can only float directly above the
    ground? The story should stay internally consistent, and it can help if
    the author has some personal idea how the technology works, although he
    should resist the tempetation to explain it to the readers if he doesn't
    have to.

    --
    "When the fool walks through the street, in his lack of understanding he
    calls everything foolish." -- Ecclesiastes 10:3, New American Bible
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Tim Brooks wrote:
    > weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
    > speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object

    Nope. Relativity states that the mass of an object approaches
    INFINITE as it approaches c. That's sort of the reason why nothing with
    mass can travel at the speed of light. Its mass would be infinite. Only
    objects with no rest mass (such as photons) can travel at c. In fact,
    they MUST travel at c: no more, no less.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Travis Casey <efindel@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<h7u4oc.225.ln@lostthoughts.org>...
    > Ralph Glatt wrote:
    >
    > > I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
    > > ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
    > > disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
    > > bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
    > > of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
    > > haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
    > > plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
    > > electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
    > > means.
    >
    > He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
    > gravity, practically or theoretically.

    You can negate a gravitational field with another gravitational field
    pulling the other way. Consider, for example, the point between the
    Earth and the Moon where the fields of these two bodies cancel.

    --- Brian
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    "Shawn Corey" <shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:YkFqd.6159$kI6.391450@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > Running Wolf wrote:
    > > ... Imagine what you can do
    > > to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
    > > might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the
    tides,
    > > magma, and fault zones.
    > >
    >
    > Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
    > magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
    > you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
    >
    > --- Shawn

    Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core. 2
    or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
    (insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could play
    hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals, buildings,
    mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas giant
    could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we are
    talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
    course so I can actually do the math on question like this :).

    I'm tired right now (work nights and this is my day off, usually
    sleeping right now) but think of even a surface increase of .5 G would have.
    Thinking about it it would also effect the gravity well. Even with our
    primitive tech level imagine how far we'd be thrown back if all those fancy
    satellites came crashing down. Most obvious effect would be on
    communications, and logical extension would be GPS and other military
    applications.

    R/W
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    "Running Wolf" <no_spam@nospam.com> writes:

    > "Shawn Corey" <shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    > news:YkFqd.6159$kI6.391450@news20.bellglobal.com...
    >> Running Wolf wrote:
    >> > ... Imagine what you can do
    >> > to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
    >> > might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the
    > tides,
    >> > magma, and fault zones.
    >> >
    >>
    >> Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
    >> magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
    >> you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
    >>
    >> --- Shawn
    >
    > Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core. 2
    > or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
    > (insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could play
    > hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals, buildings,
    > mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas giant
    > could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we are
    > talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
    > course so I can actually do the math on question like this :).

    If I wanted to mess up an earth-type planet, I'd put, oh, the inner
    500 miles in a .5G or lower zone...the pressure would no longer be
    counteracted by the gravity, which would be...not fun for us up here.

    Shalon Wood

    --
    Check out Strange Love -- an ezine of science fiction, fantasy, and
    paranormal erotica. Only $2 for more than 20,000 words of fiction!

    http://strangelove.pele.cx
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    "Shalon Wood" <dstar@pele.cx> wrote in message
    news:87acswl6ts.fsf@pele.pele.cx...
    > > Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core.
    2
    > > or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
    > > (insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could
    play
    > > hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals,
    buildings,
    > > mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas
    giant
    > > could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we
    are
    > > talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
    > > course so I can actually do the math on question like this :).
    >
    > If I wanted to mess up an earth-type planet, I'd put, oh, the inner
    > 500 miles in a .5G or lower zone...the pressure would no longer be
    > counteracted by the gravity, which would be...not fun for us up here.
    >
    > Shalon Wood

    Oh man, think of what it could do to a star. If I remember right the
    only reason you have sustained fusion inside a star is because of the
    pressure of gravity. Needless to say you'd need more than a 500 mile range
    for even a small star.
    Thinking once again on it there are a lot of deadly and beneficial
    things you can do with a focused graivty well. Medically it could be a boon,
    when the old back gets sore imagine a nice .5G to 0G sleeping bag.
    Overweight, add another .33G to .5G, just typing or going to the can would
    burn more calories and build muscle mass at the same time. Power plants
    running fusion due to a dense (alomost) sigularity to generate fusion from
    hrydogen... On the other hand put a nice 15G spot in someone's foot and
    watch all the blood rush away from teh heart and brain. Increase that by a
    factor of 10 or 20 and see the person get turned into a pancake.
    Living in teh snow belt I wonder if increasing the gravity where the
    tires meet the road might help with that old slip sliding away.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

    Running Wolf wrote:
    > Oh man, think of what it could do to a star. If I remember right the
    > only reason you have sustained fusion inside a star is because of the
    > pressure of gravity. Needless to say you'd need more than a 500 mile range
    > for even a small star.
    > Thinking once again on it there are a lot of deadly and beneficial
    > things you can do with a focused graivty well. Medically it could be a boon,
    > when the old back gets sore imagine a nice .5G to 0G sleeping bag.
    > Overweight, add another .33G to .5G, just typing or going to the can would
    > burn more calories and build muscle mass at the same time. Power plants
    > running fusion due to a dense (alomost) sigularity to generate fusion from
    > hrydogen... On the other hand put a nice 15G spot in someone's foot and
    > watch all the blood rush away from teh heart and brain. Increase that by a
    > factor of 10 or 20 and see the person get turned into a pancake.
    > Living in teh snow belt I wonder if increasing the gravity where the
    > tires meet the road might help with that old slip sliding away.
    >

    So mundane.

    With a radius of 500 miles but able to produce 10 to 20 G you should be
    able to create a solar flare capable of frying any planet by applying it
    to the surface of the star.

    An overweight couch potato will still be an overweight couch potato even
    at 2 G. Would be an overweight pancake at 200 G.

    A gravfusion plant would probably use more energy than it creates.
    TANSTAAFL.

    A 15 G spot in the foot is just a pain. Not enough major blood vessels
    to due a lot of damage without a long time screaming. Focus on the brain
    stem instead.

    In the snow belt go for zero-G, a gravhovercraft. Also good in sand,
    swamp, and sea.

    --- Shawn
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