Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Science Question #2 - Re-Entry Vehicles

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 2:59:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

.... and here's question #2:

Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?

The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
to believe it.

Thanks again and all the best!
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 6:41:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
>... and here's question #2:
>
>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
>The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
>hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
>civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
>had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
>spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

And Tesla was an extra-terrestrial. Don't spend too much time on this
sort of thing.

>
>Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
>would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
>to believe it.
>
>Thanks again and all the best!

Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

--
"The main, if not the only, function of the word aether has been to
furnish a nominative case to the verb 'to undulate'."
-- the Earl of Salisbury, 1894
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 10:48:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
<buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

>... and here's question #2:
>
>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?

<snip>

According to everything I know about physics (and I'll admit that I'm
not a physicist of any sort), anti-gravity can't work at all.

If it's your game, just say that it works and be done with it. (How
many people can describe how a microwave oven works, beyond "you plug it
in and push the buttons, oh, and don't use metal dishes"? They just
know that it works, and are done with it.) If anyone asks, fall back on
hand-waving: "It's good old Human know-how, son!"

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/&gt; robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be a
little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other fringe
groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil on rec.arts.anime.misc, 20 Jan 2004
Related resources
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 4:52:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
<buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

>... and here's question #2:
>
>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
>The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
>hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
>civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
>had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
>spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.

You're looking for crackpot theories then?
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:32:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

>Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
>and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
>spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
>in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
>as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

It's a good point. Getting too involved with the technical minutia
really bogs down a good story whether it's GURPS, gameplay in a video
game, a novel or whatever.

But MAN it's hard to kick the gearhead habit! I could spend days just
designing vehicles for a campaign and then remember that there should
be a plotline in there somewhere. That's why I'm hooked on GURPS.

>If anyone asks, fall back on
>hand-waving: "It's good old Human know-how, son!"

I'm a big fan of hand-waving, really comes in handy when dealing with
work or family.

>You're looking for crackpot theories then?

Heh, heh... crackpot's all I got.
All I'm trying to do is add a little depth to the game like "Does this
lifter pod project a field of repulsion (and if so does it affect
whatever's underneath it) or does it project a field around the
vehicle which reduces mass? Is it going to give me cancer!?"
Or..." if that lifter cell gets hit by incoming fire, is it going to
explode and take everything nearby with it?"

By the way, has anyone tried the Corps Vehicle Design System by BTRC?
I've been thinking about buying it.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 8:54:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
> ... and here's question #2:
>
> Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
> on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
> The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
> hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
> civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
> had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
> spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
>
> Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
> would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
> to believe it.
>
> Thanks again and all the best!

I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
means.


Ralph Glatt
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Ralph Glatt wrote:

> I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
> ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
> disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
> bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
> of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
> haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
> plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
> electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
> means.

He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
gravity, practically or theoretically.

--
ZZzz |\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:40:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Travis Casey wrote:
> Ralph Glatt wrote:
>
>
>>I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
>>ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
>>disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
>>bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
>>of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
>>haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
>>plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
>>electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
>>means.
>
>
> He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
> gravity, practically or theoretically.
>

Obviously, the disc are not spinning fast enough ;-)

--- Shawn
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 12:12:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:59:39 GMT, can't believe its not buddha
<buddy@buddha.org> wrote:

>... and here's question #2:
>
>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
>The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
>hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
>civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
>had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
>spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.


Ahhh, found the quote I was looking for:

"The triangular TR-3B was purportedly developed under the auspices of
the top-secret National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and the Central
Intelligence Agency (CIA) under the Air Force's super-duper Top Secret
Aurora Program. Code named "Astra," the TR-3B -- incorporating
captured "alien" technology -- is said to use highly pressured mercury
accelerated by nuclear energy to produce a plasma that creates a field
of "anti-gravity" around the ship. Conventional thrusters located at
the tips of the craft allow it to perform all manner of rapid high
speed maneuvers along all three axes.
Reports are that at least three TR-3Bs began operating out of Groom
Lake (Area 51) in 1994 and have since been spotted all over the world.
A centerpiece of modern UFO lore, the TR-3B was frequently seen
(albeit it briefly and obscurely) in several episodes of Fox-TV's "The
X-Files" TV series of the 1990s."

From Starship Modeller dot com.

Sounds as good a crackpot theory as any... I'll use it!
Anonymous
November 27, 2004 3:55:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

can't believe its not buddha wrote:

>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
That's easy.

We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
spinning, unable to land at all.

There you go.

Luke
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 10:47:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:co2a3h$nv6$6@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
> In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
> can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
> >... and here's question #2:
> >
> >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
> >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
> >
<<snip>>
> >Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
> >would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
> >to believe it.
> >
> >Thanks again and all the best!
>
> Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
> and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
> spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
> in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
> as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.

For any sort of fiction I think you are right (but I'll be damned if
I'll get on an airplane designed by someone who doesn't aerodynamics *g*).

The best idea for a game, piece of fiction, et al is not to get bogged
down too much in detail but keep it consistent.

The idea of using gravity also leads to some effects which might not be
apparent at first. Depending on how much energy it takes to power a device
it can not only be used for lifting off a planet but also for space travel.
You create a gravity well in front of the ship and the ship "falls" into the
gravity well you created. Light (lasers) are effected by gravity so it can
also be used to bend light around an object (immune to lasers, as well as
being able to function like a cloaking device). On another turn it can also
be used as a weapon. If you have some focusing control on how and where you
make the gravity well you can create a nice little 8 or 9 G spot inside the
reactor of another ship and have the containment (as well as the whole
engineering section) system collapse in on itself. Imagine what you can do
to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
magma, and fault zones.
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 10:57:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"LukeCampbell" <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message
news:coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu...
> can't believe its not buddha wrote:
>
> >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
> >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
> >
> That's easy.
>
> We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
> lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
> back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
> and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
> spinning, unable to land at all.
>
> There you go.
>
> Luke
>

*hurrily cleaning spit out coffee off my screen*

I HAVE to use that next time someone in a game says that they are
opening up the compart that the anvti-gav units are housed in!
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 11:19:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Running Wolf wrote:
> ... Imagine what you can do
> to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
> might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
> magma, and fault zones.
>

Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)

--- Shawn
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 12:51:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
> ... and here's question #2:
>
> Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
> on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>
> The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
> hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
> civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
> had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
> spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
>
> Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
> would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
> to believe it.
>
> Thanks again and all the best!

The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
mass is related to the speed it travels. This would mean if someone
could engineer a well-crafted magnetic vortex they could cause an atom
to start vibrating in a circular path, and at a very high frequency
make this atom vibrate close to the speed of light making it weigh
less. Now, if you are real good instead of one atom vibrating you make
all the atoms in the craft vibrate, if you could make the craft do
this, it would weigh almost nothing, then in which case you would not
have to provide much trust at all to get air bone or to travel very
very very fast. This is not as far fetched as it sounds this is
plausible.

thanks
Tim
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 3:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

I tried to send this once already so this may end up a double post.



The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
mass is related to the speed it travels. This would mean if someone
could engineer a well-crafted magnetic vortex they could cause an atom
to start vibrating in a circular path, and at a very high frequency
make this atom vibrate close to the speed of light making it weigh
less. Now, if you are real good instead of one atom vibrating you make
all the atoms in the craft vibrate, if you could make the craft do
this, it would weigh almost nothing, then in which case you would not
have to provide much trust at all to get air bone or to travel very
very very fast. This is not as far fetched as it sounds this is
plausible.

Thanks

Tim
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 3:24:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Shawn Corey wrote:
>
> Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
> magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
> you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
>
> --- Shawn

Oops, on second thought, the tides will be effected: they will be
smaller. The increased gravity will hold them down.

Some other effects:

The atmosphere will compress. People living at altitude may find the air
less dense and suffer from altitude sickness. If the gravity is suddenly
released, people at sea-level may suffer from the bends.

Baseballs and golf balls will not go as far. Not only will gravity pull
the to the earth quicker, the thicker atmosphere will slow them faster.
However, the thicker air will cause a greater curve to them.

--- Shawn
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 4:00:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Tim Brooks wrote:

> can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote in message news:<edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>...
>
>>... and here's question #2:
>>
>>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>>
>>The last one I saw was a theory on how the US Airforce got their
>>hypothetical TR-3B triangular craft to hover and perform crazy
>>civilian-scaring stunts. Supposedly the craft was nuclear powered and
>>had a large metal sphere in its center which contained rapidly
>>spinning liquid mercury which generated what, I don't know.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
>>would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
>>to believe it.
>>
>>Thanks again and all the best!
>
>
> The lifters, like that are on JLN's website work on ion wind only.
> Don't let him fool you. There has many test outside his website to
> prove this. As far as anti-gravity, I think anti-gravity is
> miss-leading, The so call TR-3b more than likely works by using a
> magnetic field, not to cause anti-gravity, but change the mass (or
> weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
> speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object
> mass is related to the speed it travels.

Object mass is related to the speed it travels, but you have it
backward, it doesn't go to zero. (*Dang, can't remember the formula*)
but it had rest mass times a square root that had (c-v)^2 in the
denominator. When velocity v got real close to c the denominator became
very small, and hence the multiplyer of the rest mass became large.
When velocity equals c, you're deviding by zero, so you could say that
mass becomes infinite. When velocity exceeds c, you are taking the
square root of a negative number, so some people say you end up with
imaginary mass or negative mass, neither of which Einstein said.

Time also changes as you close in on the speed of light, so from an
external view, the nuclear (or chemical, or whatever) source of power
slows down its reaction producing less energy. (Of course it's all
relative, as the observers in the fast moving vehicle see the outside
universe as slowing down, and their own reactions taking the normal
about of time. Isn't paradox fun?)

>
> thanks
> Tim

Tom A.
"When Ben Casey meets Kildare - you have a pair of docs" - Alan Sherman
_Plurals_
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 4:43:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

This is great. Super non-logic. Perfect.

--
Regards

Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
(CTO PowerNodes Ltd.)
---

Still waiting for ObjectSpaces? Try the EntityBroker today - more versatile,
more powerfull.
And something in use NOW. for the projects you have to deliver - NOW.


"LukeCampbell" <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message
news:coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu...
> can't believe its not buddha wrote:
>
>>Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>>on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>>
> That's easy.
>
> We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
> lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
> back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
> and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
> spinning, unable to land at all.
>
> There you go.
>
> Luke
>
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 5:34:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

LukeCampbell <lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> wrote in message news:<coaf1p$jd4$1@news.service.uci.edu>...
> can't believe its not buddha wrote:
>
> >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
> >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
> >
> That's easy.
>
> We all know cats always land on their feet. We also know bread always
> lands butter side down. So tape a piece of bread butter side up to the
> back of a cat and drop it. It will not be able to both land on its feet
> and butter side down. As a result, it will hover just above the ground,
> spinning, unable to land at all.
>
> There you g0.

Ah, so that's how it's done! All this time, I've been trying to throw
myself to the ground and miss.


Ralph Glatt
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 6:12:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

In article <41ab1a83$1_2@alt.athenanews.com>,
Running Wolf <no_spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
>news:co2a3h$nv6$6@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
>> In article <edt8q093rn24dn0210sn7eloe4f7iesu7u@4ax.com>,
>> can't believe its not buddha <buddy@buddha.org> wrote:
>> >... and here's question #2:
>> >
>> >Could someone provide me with a list or link to some current theories
>> >on how anti-grav or lifter technology could work?
>> >
><<snip>>
>> >Anyway, I'm trying to build plausible technology for my campaigns and
>> >would love to have anti-grav (or lifter) tech but I've got to be able
>> >to believe it.
>> >
>> >Thanks again and all the best!
>>
>> Don't try. Star Wars just showed the audience what the technology does,
>> and it was a wonderful space opera. Star Trek tries to explain it,
>> spawning jokes about the Particle of the Month Club. George Lucas threw
>> in that bit about midichlorians and The Force, widely regarded by fan boys
>> as stupid. He blew it, he tried to explain.
>
> For any sort of fiction I think you are right (but I'll be damned if
>I'll get on an airplane designed by someone who doesn't aerodynamics *g*).
>
> The best idea for a game, piece of fiction, et al is not to get bogged
>down too much in detail but keep it consistent.
>
> The idea of using gravity also leads to some effects which might not be
>apparent at first. Depending on how much energy it takes to power a device
>it can not only be used for lifting off a planet but also for space travel.
>You create a gravity well in front of the ship and the ship "falls" into the
>gravity well you created. Light (lasers) are effected by gravity so it can
>also be used to bend light around an object (immune to lasers, as well as
>being able to function like a cloaking device). On another turn it can also
>be used as a weapon. If you have some focusing control on how and where you
>make the gravity well you can create a nice little 8 or 9 G spot inside the
>reactor of another ship and have the containment (as well as the whole
>engineering section) system collapse in on itself. Imagine what you can do
>to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
>might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the tides,
>magma, and fault zones.

Yeah, that's the other thing. Don't worry too much about HOW the
technology works, but have a good idea what it does, and what are the
consequences. Like does your antigravity drive push away from masses like
the Earth (the Earth acts as reaction mass), or is it an inertialess
rocket? Is it like a hovercraft that can only float directly above the
ground? The story should stay internally consistent, and it can help if
the author has some personal idea how the technology works, although he
should resist the tempetation to explain it to the readers if he doesn't
have to.

--
"When the fool walks through the street, in his lack of understanding he
calls everything foolish." -- Ecclesiastes 10:3, New American Bible
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 2:15:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Tim Brooks wrote:
> weight) of the craft. Einstein said that as an object approaches the
> speed of light the object mass goes to nothing, and that an object

Nope. Relativity states that the mass of an object approaches
INFINITE as it approaches c. That's sort of the reason why nothing with
mass can travel at the speed of light. Its mass would be infinite. Only
objects with no rest mass (such as photons) can travel at c. In fact,
they MUST travel at c: no more, no less.
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 12:00:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Travis Casey <efindel@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<h7u4oc.225.ln@lostthoughts.org>...
> Ralph Glatt wrote:
>
> > I heard one guy try to explain how flying saucers do it, some 20 years
> > ago. He said that what you have to do was have two large magnetic
> > disks, one on top of the other. The top one would spin one way, the
> > bottom the other. Apparently, you'd be able to negate gravity outside
> > of the disks while still having gravity in between the disks. I
> > haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. ;-) Still, it sounds
> > plausible that someone might be able to manipulate gravitic force with
> > electromagnetic force. Then again, I'm no particle physicist by any
> > means.
>
> He was doing BS technobabble physics. There is no known way to negate
> gravity, practically or theoretically.

You can negate a gravitational field with another gravitational field
pulling the other way. Consider, for example, the point between the
Earth and the Moon where the fields of these two bodies cancel.

--- Brian
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 2:31:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Shawn Corey" <shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:YkFqd.6159$kI6.391450@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Running Wolf wrote:
> > ... Imagine what you can do
> > to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
> > might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the
tides,
> > magma, and fault zones.
> >
>
> Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
> magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
> you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
>
> --- Shawn

Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core. 2
or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
(insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could play
hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals, buildings,
mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas giant
could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we are
talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
course so I can actually do the math on question like this :) .

I'm tired right now (work nights and this is my day off, usually
sleeping right now) but think of even a surface increase of .5 G would have.
Thinking about it it would also effect the gravity well. Even with our
primitive tech level imagine how far we'd be thrown back if all those fancy
satellites came crashing down. Most obvious effect would be on
communications, and logical extension would be GPS and other military
applications.

R/W
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 3:12:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Running Wolf" <no_spam@nospam.com> writes:

> "Shawn Corey" <shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:YkFqd.6159$kI6.391450@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> Running Wolf wrote:
>> > ... Imagine what you can do
>> > to a planet if you increase the G of the core by a factor of 2 or 3. It
>> > might not destroy the planet but you'd sure have some "fun" with the
> tides,
>> > magma, and fault zones.
>> >
>>
>> Only if you increased the gravity offset from the core. The tides,
>> magma, and fault zones will behave the same way, just faster. However,
>> you would make walking to the store for beer much more tiring ;-)
>>
>> --- Shawn
>
> Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core. 2
> or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
> (insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could play
> hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals, buildings,
> mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas giant
> could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we are
> talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
> course so I can actually do the math on question like this :) .

If I wanted to mess up an earth-type planet, I'd put, oh, the inner
500 miles in a .5G or lower zone...the pressure would no longer be
counteracted by the gravity, which would be...not fun for us up here.

Shalon Wood

--
Check out Strange Love -- an ezine of science fiction, fantasy, and
paranormal erotica. Only $2 for more than 20,000 words of fiction!

http://strangelove.pele.cx
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 10:58:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Shalon Wood" <dstar@pele.cx> wrote in message
news:87acswl6ts.fsf@pele.pele.cx...
> > Yeah really, and depends on how much the G is increased at the core.
2
> > or 3 G would be a hassle (imagine the effect on birds and other flyers
> > (insects, planes, et al). If it's a factor of 10 or 20 or more it could
play
> > hell on the core pressure and on the surface most thing (animals,
buildings,
> > mountains) might collapse under it's own weight. The effects on a gas
giant
> > could produce a brown dwarf. Once again it all depends on how much G we
are
> > talking about, and boy do I need to go back to school and take a physics
> > course so I can actually do the math on question like this :) .
>
> If I wanted to mess up an earth-type planet, I'd put, oh, the inner
> 500 miles in a .5G or lower zone...the pressure would no longer be
> counteracted by the gravity, which would be...not fun for us up here.
>
> Shalon Wood

Oh man, think of what it could do to a star. If I remember right the
only reason you have sustained fusion inside a star is because of the
pressure of gravity. Needless to say you'd need more than a 500 mile range
for even a small star.
Thinking once again on it there are a lot of deadly and beneficial
things you can do with a focused graivty well. Medically it could be a boon,
when the old back gets sore imagine a nice .5G to 0G sleeping bag.
Overweight, add another .33G to .5G, just typing or going to the can would
burn more calories and build muscle mass at the same time. Power plants
running fusion due to a dense (alomost) sigularity to generate fusion from
hrydogen... On the other hand put a nice 15G spot in someone's foot and
watch all the blood rush away from teh heart and brain. Increase that by a
factor of 10 or 20 and see the person get turned into a pancake.
Living in teh snow belt I wonder if increasing the gravity where the
tires meet the road might help with that old slip sliding away.
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 11:42:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Running Wolf wrote:
> Oh man, think of what it could do to a star. If I remember right the
> only reason you have sustained fusion inside a star is because of the
> pressure of gravity. Needless to say you'd need more than a 500 mile range
> for even a small star.
> Thinking once again on it there are a lot of deadly and beneficial
> things you can do with a focused graivty well. Medically it could be a boon,
> when the old back gets sore imagine a nice .5G to 0G sleeping bag.
> Overweight, add another .33G to .5G, just typing or going to the can would
> burn more calories and build muscle mass at the same time. Power plants
> running fusion due to a dense (alomost) sigularity to generate fusion from
> hrydogen... On the other hand put a nice 15G spot in someone's foot and
> watch all the blood rush away from teh heart and brain. Increase that by a
> factor of 10 or 20 and see the person get turned into a pancake.
> Living in teh snow belt I wonder if increasing the gravity where the
> tires meet the road might help with that old slip sliding away.
>

So mundane.

With a radius of 500 miles but able to produce 10 to 20 G you should be
able to create a solar flare capable of frying any planet by applying it
to the surface of the star.

An overweight couch potato will still be an overweight couch potato even
at 2 G. Would be an overweight pancake at 200 G.

A gravfusion plant would probably use more energy than it creates.
TANSTAAFL.

A 15 G spot in the foot is just a pain. Not enough major blood vessels
to due a lot of damage without a long time screaming. Focus on the brain
stem instead.

In the snow belt go for zero-G, a gravhovercraft. Also good in sand,
swamp, and sea.

--- Shawn
!