Supers: "Unstoppable" Juggernaut?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Here's another great puzzle for GURPS Supers fans...

How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
special power suggests he is?

Lifting ST seems too broad unless it's somehow limited to only forward
movement. Tunneling would work, technically, if it was expanded to
include substances more than dirt (like people and trucks), but it
just sounds weird. I've even considered DR with Reflection, thinking
it might reflect the damage he'd receive from running into things --
but I think that's twisting the rules. A damaging forcefield might
eat through obstacles, but I'm not sure it's within the character
concept to vaporize everything he runs through.

Any ideas?

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:44:22 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>Here's another great puzzle for GURPS Supers fans...
>
>How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
>special power suggests he is?

Insubstantiality with "affects substantial" and "leaves hole behind
him". Sure that means he's a really annoying

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 04:48:35 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>>How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
>>special power suggests he is?
>
>Insubstantiality with "affects substantial" and "leaves hole behind
>him". Sure that means he's a really annoying

I'm guessing you got cut off or I somehow didn't receive your whole
reply. Anyway, to address the particular issue you mentioned...

I can see how "leaves hole behind him" would represent his ability to
shove things aside, but having bullets pass through him just doesn't
seem right. Juggernaut's ability to brush aside (or smash through)
virtually any obstable doesn't make him into a ghost -- he can still
be tripped, buried, jumped on, etc.

Assuming you were going to type more, I look forward to the rest of
your suggestion.

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:22:43 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 04:48:35 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>>How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
>>>special power suggests he is?
>>
>>Insubstantiality with "affects substantial" and "leaves hole behind
>>him". Sure that means he's a really annoying
>
>I'm guessing you got cut off or I somehow didn't receive your whole
>reply. Anyway, to address the particular issue you mentioned...
>
>I can see how "leaves hole behind him" would represent his ability to
>shove things aside, but having bullets pass through him just doesn't
>seem right.

Pass through, bounce off, it's all just special effects.

Juggernaut's ability to brush aside (or smash through)
>virtually any obstable doesn't make him into a ghost -- he can still
>be tripped, buried, jumped on, etc.

<shrug> Just add another limitation to it. But he can't be hurt and
he can walk through anything. Sounds like Insubstantial to me.

>
>Assuming you were going to type more, I look forward to the rest of
>your suggestion.

There wasn't that much more to it. I was going to say that makes
Juggie a really annoying character to run, but that's because he
really is a basically really annoying character.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:44:22 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>Here's another great puzzle for GURPS Supers fans...
>
>How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
>special power suggests he is?

I'd go for a HUGE amount of ST, and DR, plus [4th Ed.] a SM of +1 or
+2.
In 3rd ed., I'd add Increased Density.

"Unstoppable" is just a nickname, not a real power... The Hulk IS able
to stop him!

Korin Duval

--

"Truth requires a great amount of courage;
Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Korin Duval wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:44:22 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Here's another great puzzle for GURPS Supers fans...
>>
>>How do we make the X-Men character Juggernaut "unstoppable" like his
>>special power suggests he is?
>
>
> I'd go for a HUGE amount of ST, and DR, plus [4th Ed.] a SM of +1 or
> +2.
> In 3rd ed., I'd add Increased Density.

Sorry, don't have my 4e with me -- what's SM?

>
> "Unstoppable" is just a nickname, not a real power... The Hulk IS able
> to stop him!
>
> Korin Duval

Thanks,

Tom A.
Look out - it's Gazeebo Boy! And he has his band with him.....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:13:29 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
Duval) wrote:

>I'd go for a HUGE amount of ST, and DR, plus [4th Ed.] a SM of +1 or
>+2.
>In 3rd ed., I'd add Increased Density.

I think Juggernaut's like 8'10" or something (about +1 SM). He does
seem to be overly wide as well, so that might boost it up to +2 SM.

>"Unstoppable" is just a nickname, not a real power... The Hulk IS able
>to stop him!

Well, going by the MSH RPG writeup, I believe he's a Class-1000 force
to be stopped. The same RPG says Hulk's strength tops out at Shift-Z,
I think, but the comics tend to continuously re-define stuff anyway.

Still, though he can lift tons, Juggernaut ST is not off the scale
like Hulk's can become. I'm making very conservative conversions
based on the old MSH game stats -- perhaps too conservative.

For example, assuming 3e Vehicles data was roughly scientific, it
provides us with a maximum realistic ST. Going by that, we know that
even with super-strength, the most you can do is triple the ST of a
given mass of muscle. (This is based on the 3e Vehicles arm motor
table that shows TL12 robotic muscles lift roughly a hundred times
normal human muscles.)

Anyway, as I was saying, this makes it all the more difficult for me
to make Marvel characters fit into GURPS. Being generous, we might
assume that Hulk has the musculature of a ST 20 man, modified to ST 30
by his +1 SM. Even then, according to the formula loosely ripped from
3e Vehicles, it would seem that those huge muscles shouldn't be able
to produce more than ST 100.

This, in the end, will severely limit my "realistic" adaptations of
any super hero character that does the fabulous things shown in the
comic books. I think I'm just babling now... nevermind.

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

For "Unstoppable" (4th edition) buy Basic Move with the Cosmic enhancement.
For Marvel's Juggernaut use lower end Cosmic and add an Innate Attack
(Corrosion or Crushing Cosmic) to allow him to destroy anything in front of
him (eventually).

Easy.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:48:57 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>For "Unstoppable" (4th edition) buy Basic Move with the Cosmic enhancement.

Wow, cool idea!

>For Marvel's Juggernaut use lower end Cosmic and add an Innate Attack
>(Corrosion or Crushing Cosmic) to allow him to destroy anything in front of
>him (eventually).

I'm still not sure if I wanna use a damaging field like that (though
it might be the only option). Do you think that Linking the Innate
Attack damage to the Cosmic-enhanced Basic Move would help?

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Red Beard wrote:

> On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:48:57 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>For "Unstoppable" (4th edition) buy Basic Move with the Cosmic enhancement.
>
> Wow, cool idea!
>
>>For Marvel's Juggernaut use lower end Cosmic and add an Innate Attack
>>(Corrosion or Crushing Cosmic) to allow him to destroy anything in front of
>>him (eventually).
>
> I'm still not sure if I wanna use a damaging field like that (though
> it might be the only option). Do you think that Linking the Innate
> Attack damage to the Cosmic-enhanced Basic Move would help?

Not really. The problem comes from when he's dumped in concrete or the like.
You might buy a minscule amount of movement with Cosmic +300% for cases like
that, and buy more move with just Cosmic +50% to represent his ability to walk
through ordinary obstacles, Binding, and knockback.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:56:41 -0600, "Tom A."
<meteoricshipyards@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]
>> I'd go for a HUGE amount of ST, and DR, plus [4th Ed.] a SM of +1 or
>> +2.
>> In 3rd ed., I'd add Increased Density.
>
>Sorry, don't have my 4e with me -- what's SM?

Size Modifier.
It's a... Uh... Let's say a 0-point feature. Can be 0 for humans, or
positive or negative.

Being BIG lets you buy ST with -10% at point cost per size modifier...
Because if you're as big as a two-story house, you cannot use your ST
with the same versatility as a normal human.
You can use a SM of +4 to build a Tyrannosaurus, for Example, or +5 to
build a sentient semi-truck... Just add "machine meta-trait",
"horizontal", "no legs: wheeled", and LOTS of "payload"...


Korin Duval

--

"Truth requires a great amount of courage;
Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:45:42 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

[...]
>>I'd go for a HUGE amount of ST, and DR, plus [4th Ed.] a SM of +1 or
>>+2.
>>In 3rd ed., I'd add Increased Density.
>
>I think Juggernaut's like 8'10" or something (about +1 SM). He does
>seem to be overly wide as well, so that might boost it up to +2 SM.

It is +1 or +2 according to the writer AND the artist...
In Ultimates he interacts more or less normally with things made for
ordinary people, so it's 0 or +1.
Older writers depicted him as a real giant, +1 to +2.

>>"Unstoppable" is just a nickname, not a real power... The Hulk IS able
>>to stop him!
>
>Well, going by the MSH RPG writeup, I believe he's a Class-1000 force
>to be stopped. The same RPG says Hulk's strength tops out at Shift-Z,
>I think, but the comics tend to continuously re-define stuff anyway.

In the Marvel Encyclopedia it said once (I saw a really OLD version)
that the "effortless lift" of the Juggernaut was "over 100 tons",
while The Hulk was "over 80 tons"... But The Hulk has also the power
of boost his ST by mere rage...

[...]
>For example, assuming 3e Vehicles data was roughly scientific, it
>provides us with a maximum realistic ST. Going by that, we know that
>even with super-strength, the most you can do is triple the ST of a
>given mass of muscle. (This is based on the 3e Vehicles arm motor
>table that shows TL12 robotic muscles lift roughly a hundred times
>normal human muscles.)

>Anyway, as I was saying, this makes it all the more difficult for me
>to make Marvel characters fit into GURPS. Being generous, we might
>assume that Hulk has the musculature of a ST 20 man, modified to ST 30
>by his +1 SM. Even then, according to the formula loosely ripped from
>3e Vehicles, it would seem that those huge muscles shouldn't be able
>to produce more than ST 100.
[...]

I'm sorry, but if you go into superhero genre, you have to start from
the fact they defy normal laws of nature: they are able to create HUGE
amounts of energy and/or matter from nothing: lasers, ST,
regeneration, telekinesis...

If you want a "realistic" superhero genre, go for (certain versions
of) Batman, or The League Of Extraordinary Gentleman (the COMIC!).

Korin Duval

--

"Truth requires a great amount of courage;
Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:18:54 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Not really. The problem comes from when he's dumped in concrete or the like.
>You might buy a minscule amount of movement with Cosmic +300% for cases like
>that, and buy more move with just Cosmic +50% to represent his ability to walk
>through ordinary obstacles, Binding, and knockback.
>
>Jefferson
>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

Hah! Beat ya to it!

According to the Campaigns book, Slam damage = HP * velocity / 100, so
I added the extra cost of Cosmic (irresistible attack, +300%) to half
of his Basic Move 6, for a total of 45 points. That gives him roughly
1d of Slam damage that is continuous (because his velocity of 3 is,
Cosmically perpetual).

Now the tough part is deciding how to mimic invulnerability. The MSH
game says he's got 1,000 forcefield backed up by 100 armor, so he's
not quite invulnerable (though effectively so on the MSH game scale).
I figure that he'd have at least 10,000 DR, and that's just a wee bit
too much for me to deal with!

So, as was suggested before, perhaps Insubstantiality would work. I'm
considering Accessibility (only against damage, -??%) to represent how
he can still be touched and he can't float around like a ghost. Does
that sound good? How about -30 percent?

Still, using Insubstantiality makes it sound like tank shells would go
through him instead of blowing up when they hit him. Darn, I hope
there's a solution to this in a future book...

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:23:50 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
Duval) wrote:

>It is +1 or +2 according to the writer AND the artist...
>In Ultimates he interacts more or less normally with things made for
>ordinary people, so it's 0 or +1.
>Older writers depicted him as a real giant, +1 to +2.

I was wrong: he's only 6'10"! However, he does weight 900 pounds, and
he's significantly wider than the average human. All this seems to
point to SM +1, especially based on his original appearance.

Hulk, also, is only SM +1. Though he's a little taller than
Juggernaut, he's even wider (and really weird-looking too), and weighs
1,040 pounds in his traditional green form (and 900 gray).


>In the Marvel Encyclopedia it said once (I saw a really OLD version)
>that the "effortless lift" of the Juggernaut was "over 100 tons",
>while The Hulk was "over 80 tons"... But The Hulk has also the power
>of boost his ST by mere rage...

Hulk's ST keeps getting greater and greater, but at least he can't
blow out a star like Superman... yet. The MSH RPG lists Juggernaut
as having Unearthly strength (100 tons), and Hulk at Monstrous (80
tons), though he can go up 3 classes to Shift-Y (unlisted), I believe,
with rage. I really don't know if Juggernaut's stats are official
though, since I don't actually have them in a MSH book.


>I'm sorry, but if you go into superhero genre, you have to start from
>the fact they defy normal laws of nature: they are able to create HUGE
>amounts of energy and/or matter from nothing: lasers, ST,
>regeneration, telekinesis...

In the case of Juggernaut, it's a little easier to write things off as
being mystical enhancements, since we don't have a set of physics to
govern magical energies. But characters like Hulk and the X-Men tend
to operate on exaggerated version of real-world science and phenomena.

My adaptation of the Marvel universe is meant to be a down-to-earth
version, that players and GMs can "upgrade" if they want more power.
I think that's better than having to trim down a powerful character,
and end up short-circuiting their skills and essential abilities.

For example, though I'm a firm believer in Doctor Doom having an IQ of
19 or so, my limited version gives him only a 15, plus Gadgeteer and
perhaps High TL.


>If you want a "realistic" superhero genre, go for (certain versions
>of) Batman, or The League Of Extraordinary Gentleman (the COMIC!).

I'm also in the process of converting a "down-to-earth" version of the
Batman characters from the DCU RPG. In fact, I'd say almost all of my
creations are underpowered. The first Doctor Who only has IQ 15,
which in my opinion is plenty. By the 7th Doc, it's only up to 17.

My problem is that I'm trying to adapt or convert a dozen different
genres at the same time. I've begun everything from G.I. Joe to Star
Trek, but finished hardly any!

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Red Beard wrote:

> According to the Campaigns book, Slam damage = HP * velocity / 100, so
> I added the extra cost of Cosmic (irresistible attack, +300%) to half
> of his Basic Move 6, for a total of 45 points. That gives him roughly
> 1d of Slam damage that is continuous (because his velocity of 3 is,
> Cosmically perpetual).

Too much. It took him 3+ months to get out of a concrete foundation, and
wouldn't have taken more than a day at move 3.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:08:02 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Too much. It took him 3+ months to get out of a concrete foundation, and
>wouldn't have taken more than a day at move 3.

Any idea which issue of what comic that was? That just sounds too
funny to miss!

Originally, I'd only planned on making 1 of his Move levels Cosmic.
Thinking about it again, it might be best to scrap the MSH notion of
"...anything greater slows him to [half speed]" and instead just make
it slow him to 1 Move. That would lower the Slam damage even more.

Alternatively, the 3-month concrete incident might have been because
he was simply unable to *start* moving, and instead had to use is own
ST to slowly grind his way free... ?

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:00:47 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:18:54 -0700, Jefferson
><Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>Not really. The problem comes from when he's dumped in concrete or the like.
>>You might buy a minscule amount of movement with Cosmic +300% for cases like
>>that, and buy more move with just Cosmic +50% to represent his ability to walk
>>through ordinary obstacles, Binding, and knockback.
>>
>>Jefferson
>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
>
>Hah! Beat ya to it!
>
>According to the Campaigns book, Slam damage = HP * velocity / 100, so
>I added the extra cost of Cosmic (irresistible attack, +300%) to half
>of his Basic Move 6, for a total of 45 points. That gives him roughly
>1d of Slam damage that is continuous (because his velocity of 3 is,
>Cosmically perpetual).
>
>Now the tough part is deciding how to mimic invulnerability. The MSH
>game says he's got 1,000 forcefield backed up by 100 armor, so he's
>not quite invulnerable (though effectively so on the MSH game scale).
>I figure that he'd have at least 10,000 DR, and that's just a wee bit
>too much for me to deal with!

Juggernaut is himself a bit too much for GURPS to deal with.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:00:48 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

[...]
>I was wrong: he's only 6'10"! However, he does weight 900 pounds, and
>he's significantly wider than the average human. All this seems to
>point to SM +1, especially based on his original appearance.

>Hulk, also, is only SM +1. Though he's a little taller than
>Juggernaut, he's even wider (and really weird-looking too), and weighs
>1,040 pounds in his traditional green form (and 900 gray).

I'm sure I saw at least one comic with The Juggernaut a bit taller
than The Hulk (in the Pantheon Saga, maybe?).
It's up to the writer and/or artist... ^^;

[...]
>>I'm sorry, but if you go into superhero genre, you have to start from
>>the fact they defy normal laws of nature: they are able to create HUGE
>>amounts of energy and/or matter from nothing: lasers, ST,
>>regeneration, telekinesis...
>
>In the case of Juggernaut, it's a little easier to write things off as
>being mystical enhancements, since we don't have a set of physics to
>govern magical energies. But characters like Hulk and the X-Men tend
>to operate on exaggerated version of real-world science and phenomena.
>
>My adaptation of the Marvel universe is meant to be a down-to-earth
>version, that players and GMs can "upgrade" if they want more power.

That's another thing. ^_________^
If you want to do that, go for it. I think it could be really
"user-friendly".

[...]
>My problem is that I'm trying to adapt or convert a dozen different
>genres at the same time. I've begun everything from G.I. Joe to Star
>Trek, but finished hardly any!

I was tempted to convert Optimus Prime from Transformers (Generation 1
or Armada, dunno), when I saw GURPS 4th ed.
Damage Resistance, Size Modifier, Machine Meta-Trait, Payload, Innate
Attack (transformers NEVER lose their blaster!), the new rules on
Alternate Form (in which he should have Horizontal: wheeled).
The stats for a semi-truck are also already included in the Basic Set.
Also, HP depend on ST now... Job almost done!

Korin Duval

--

"Truth requires a great amount of courage;
Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:48:00 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
Duval) wrote:

>I was tempted to convert Optimus Prime from Transformers (Generation 1
>or Armada, dunno), when I saw GURPS 4th ed.
>Damage Resistance, Size Modifier, Machine Meta-Trait, Payload, Innate
>Attack (transformers NEVER lose their blaster!), the new rules on
>Alternate Form (in which he should have Horizontal: wheeled).
>The stats for a semi-truck are also already included in the Basic Set.
>Also, HP depend on ST now... Job almost done!

I just used the Tech Specs to get base human-sized stats for all the
year-one Transformers, but like most of my stuff, I never finished it.
I'm still waiting to get very specific measurements of the G1 toys so
I can determine exactly what the robot heights are (in proportion to
their real-world vehicle lengths).

Once that happens, I can determine what their appropriate ST-to-mass
ratios should be, and thereby know what to buy their Move to. What I
was surprised to learn a while back was how most vehicles are light
enough to float if sealed -- I figure the TFs are just a light as
flesh-and-blood creatures the same size, roughly.

This same topic also started me on my physics-based damage
calculations, mostly so I could accurately calculate Devastator's
punch! Unfortunately, that's not on my site right now; I'm
checking my proposed fixes against 4e's new improvements.

In case you're interested in my fragmentary work, here's my website...
http://webpages.charter.net/akahige

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Red Beard wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:23:50 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
> Duval) wrote:
>
>
>>It is +1 or +2 according to the writer AND the artist...
>>In Ultimates he interacts more or less normally with things made for
>>ordinary people, so it's 0 or +1.
>>Older writers depicted him as a real giant, +1 to +2.
>
>
> I was wrong: he's only 6'10"! However, he does weight 900 pounds, and
> he's significantly wider than the average human. All this seems to
> point to SM +1, especially based on his original appearance.
>
> Hulk, also, is only SM +1. Though he's a little taller than
> Juggernaut, he's even wider (and really weird-looking too), and weighs
> 1,040 pounds in his traditional green form (and 900 gray).
>
>
>
>>In the Marvel Encyclopedia it said once (I saw a really OLD version)
>>that the "effortless lift" of the Juggernaut was "over 100 tons",
>>while The Hulk was "over 80 tons"... But The Hulk has also the power
>>of boost his ST by mere rage...
>
>
> Hulk's ST keeps getting greater and greater, but at least he can't
> blow out a star like Superman... yet. The MSH RPG lists Juggernaut
> as having Unearthly strength (100 tons), and Hulk at Monstrous (80
> tons), though he can go up 3 classes to Shift-Y (unlisted), I believe,
> with rage. I really don't know if Juggernaut's stats are official
> though, since I don't actually have them in a MSH book.
>
>
In one of the Secret Wars series (many years ago) Hulk held up a
mountain that had been dropped on him and others in his group. It
wasn't easy but he did hold it up long enough for Thor to destroy the
mountain with Mjolnir.

>
>>I'm sorry, but if you go into superhero genre, you have to start from
>>the fact they defy normal laws of nature: they are able to create HUGE
>>amounts of energy and/or matter from nothing: lasers, ST,
>>regeneration, telekinesis...
>
>
> In the case of Juggernaut, it's a little easier to write things off as
> being mystical enhancements, since we don't have a set of physics to
> govern magical energies. But characters like Hulk and the X-Men tend
> to operate on exaggerated version of real-world science and phenomena.
>
> My adaptation of the Marvel universe is meant to be a down-to-earth
> version, that players and GMs can "upgrade" if they want more power.
> I think that's better than having to trim down a powerful character,
> and end up short-circuiting their skills and essential abilities.
>
> For example, though I'm a firm believer in Doctor Doom having an IQ of
> 19 or so, my limited version gives him only a 15, plus Gadgeteer and
> perhaps High TL.
>
>
>
>>If you want a "realistic" superhero genre, go for (certain versions
>>of) Batman, or The League Of Extraordinary Gentleman (the COMIC!).
>
>
> I'm also in the process of converting a "down-to-earth" version of the
> Batman characters from the DCU RPG. In fact, I'd say almost all of my
> creations are underpowered. The first Doctor Who only has IQ 15,
> which in my opinion is plenty. By the 7th Doc, it's only up to 17.
>
> My problem is that I'm trying to adapt or convert a dozen different
> genres at the same time. I've begun everything from G.I. Joe to Star
> Trek, but finished hardly any!
>
> -- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:30:57 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
<mwryder@_worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>In one of the Secret Wars series (many years ago) Hulk held up a
>mountain that had been dropped on him and others in his group. It
>wasn't easy but he did hold it up long enough for Thor to destroy the
>mountain with Mjolnir.

I think that's probably one of those examples like Superman's breath
being able to blow out the fire of a star. Though I do like heroes
and monsters that can battle tanks and such, it makes a more
believable story if they give them reasonable limits.

There's no reason that Godzilla should be so invulnerable, unless his
biology somehow integrates super-strong materials into his structure.
Perhaps this could be done with the assistance of nanites, but other
than that, he should be as vulnerable as the yucky American one.

Same with Hulk. The movie's nanite explanation is good, except for
the part about him constantly chaning back and forth, which is quite
unrealistic when one questions where the extra mass comes from.

-- M.J.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:30:57 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
<mwryder@_worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Red Beard wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:23:50 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
>> Duval) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It is +1 or +2 according to the writer AND the artist...
>>>In Ultimates he interacts more or less normally with things made for
>>>ordinary people, so it's 0 or +1.
>>>Older writers depicted him as a real giant, +1 to +2.
>>
>>
>> I was wrong: he's only 6'10"! However, he does weight 900 pounds, and
>> he's significantly wider than the average human. All this seems to
>> point to SM +1, especially based on his original appearance.
>>
>> Hulk, also, is only SM +1. Though he's a little taller than
>> Juggernaut, he's even wider (and really weird-looking too), and weighs
>> 1,040 pounds in his traditional green form (and 900 gray).
>>
>>
>>
>>>In the Marvel Encyclopedia it said once (I saw a really OLD version)
>>>that the "effortless lift" of the Juggernaut was "over 100 tons",
>>>while The Hulk was "over 80 tons"... But The Hulk has also the power
>>>of boost his ST by mere rage...
>>
>>
>> Hulk's ST keeps getting greater and greater, but at least he can't
>> blow out a star like Superman... yet. The MSH RPG lists Juggernaut
>> as having Unearthly strength (100 tons), and Hulk at Monstrous (80
>> tons), though he can go up 3 classes to Shift-Y (unlisted), I believe,
>> with rage. I really don't know if Juggernaut's stats are official
>> though, since I don't actually have them in a MSH book.
>>
>>
>In one of the Secret Wars series (many years ago) Hulk held up a
>mountain that had been dropped on him and others in his group.

He didn't hold up the whole mountain, just the part of it that was
over his head.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:30:57 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
> <mwryder@_worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Red Beard wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:23:50 GMT, korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin
>>>Duval) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is +1 or +2 according to the writer AND the artist...
>>>>In Ultimates he interacts more or less normally with things made for
>>>>ordinary people, so it's 0 or +1.
>>>>Older writers depicted him as a real giant, +1 to +2.
>>>
>>>
>>>I was wrong: he's only 6'10"! However, he does weight 900 pounds, and
>>>he's significantly wider than the average human. All this seems to
>>>point to SM +1, especially based on his original appearance.
>>>
>>>Hulk, also, is only SM +1. Though he's a little taller than
>>>Juggernaut, he's even wider (and really weird-looking too), and weighs
>>>1,040 pounds in his traditional green form (and 900 gray).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In the Marvel Encyclopedia it said once (I saw a really OLD version)
>>>>that the "effortless lift" of the Juggernaut was "over 100 tons",
>>>>while The Hulk was "over 80 tons"... But The Hulk has also the power
>>>>of boost his ST by mere rage...
>>>
>>>
>>>Hulk's ST keeps getting greater and greater, but at least he can't
>>>blow out a star like Superman... yet. The MSH RPG lists Juggernaut
>>>as having Unearthly strength (100 tons), and Hulk at Monstrous (80
>>>tons), though he can go up 3 classes to Shift-Y (unlisted), I believe,
>>>with rage. I really don't know if Juggernaut's stats are official
>>>though, since I don't actually have them in a MSH book.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>In one of the Secret Wars series (many years ago) Hulk held up a
>>mountain that had been dropped on him and others in his group.
>
>
> He didn't hold up the whole mountain, just the part of it that was
> over his head.

The drawings made it seem that it was a very large piece of the mountain
as the rest of the group was trapped under there with him. I could go
back to the comics but I don't think that is important. Either way the
amount he was holding was many thousands of tons.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Red Beard wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:08:02 -0700, Jefferson
><Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Too much. It took him 3+ months to get out of a concrete foundation, and
>>wouldn't have taken more than a day at move 3.
>>
>>
>
>Any idea which issue of what comic that was? That just sounds too
>funny to miss!
>
>Originally, I'd only planned on making 1 of his Move levels Cosmic.
>Thinking about it again, it might be best to scrap the MSH notion of
>"...anything greater slows him to [half speed]" and instead just make
>it slow him to 1 Move. That would lower the Slam damage even more.
>
>Alternatively, the 3-month concrete incident might have been because
>he was simply unable to *start* moving, and instead had to use is own
>ST to slowly grind his way free... ?
>
>-- M.J.
>
>
How did he breath? Or survive without water or food? Or am I
applying too much logic here...?

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:

> How did he breath? Or survive without water or food? Or am I applying
> too much logic here...?

Among his minor abilities Juggernaut doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe, or
sleep (though he enjoys all of them except, possibly, breathing). I imagine
he's also unaffected by pressure.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/