Deck Plan Question

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I was asked a question this morning regarding traveller deck plans and I
don't know the answer. Perhaps some of you have a viewpoint.

It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.

The individual who asked the question thought we should take the deck
plans from GPD and print them in a larger scale for use in gaming.

The problem is that the ship is 50x68 meters. Printed in the "normal"
G-T scale, it would be nearly six feet long and over four feet wide for
each of three decks. Retail price would be over $50 and nobody has
enough room to set the thing up.

The individual in question thought that if printed in a smaller scale
(each hex would be 3/8 of an inch) it would be "just barely playable,
sort of" and would have the advantage of being the biggest ship for
which deck plans had ever been published. This would fit on ten 11x17
sheets (four for the top and bottom decks, two for the mid deck, maybe
two more for the variant arrangements of the cargo hold).

G-T players would never have seen such a thing, and I'm not sure (not
convinced) that it would be something they would be happy with on two
grounds: the ship is bigger than they need and the hexes are too small
for anything other than "point of reference" work.

If done "for mail order only" then using the really big laser engine we
have, we could print it ourselves and wouldn't care how may we sold, but
the market would be very limited. If done for sale in stores we'd have
to sink over a thousand bucks into it to print the cover and pay the
artist to do the crew art. I don't know that we'd make a thousand bucks
in sales.

My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on but if
somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
 
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Stephen V Cole wrote:
> My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on but
> if somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.

You could just buy the Free Trader Deck Plans from SJGames...
http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?SJG6617

There are also 5 other designs already done - the Modular Cutter, Empress
Mararva, Assault Cutter, Sulieman-Class Scout/Courier and Dragon-Class
System Defense Boat.

I only ever bought the Free Trader, and I have it sitting on my wall right
now... and it is about 6 feet long by 4 feet wide. Makes a nice wall paper
when taped together.

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And get some clear vinyl to lay over it for drawing positions, notes, &
problens such as hull breaches due to meteos, hostile fire, or accidents.

Using the clear vinyl over a hex-grid lets you transfer the drawing from
miniature scale to figure playable scale for their areas, also.

Eric B. Smith wrote:
> Stephen V Cole wrote:
>
>>My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on but
>>if somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
>
>
> You could just buy the Free Trader Deck Plans from SJGames...
> http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?SJG6617
>
> There are also 5 other designs already done - the Modular Cutter, Empress
> Mararva, Assault Cutter, Sulieman-Class Scout/Courier and Dragon-Class
> System Defense Boat.
>
> I only ever bought the Free Trader, and I have it sitting on my wall right
> now... and it is about 6 feet long by 4 feet wide. Makes a nice wall paper
> when taped together.
>
 
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Stephen V Cole wrote:

> I was asked a question this morning regarding traveller deck plans and I
> don't know the answer. Perhaps some of you have a viewpoint.
>
> It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
> GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
> as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
> starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
> of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
> sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.
>
> The individual who asked the question thought we should take the deck
> plans from GPD and print them in a larger scale for use in gaming.
>
> The problem is that the ship is 50x68 meters. Printed in the "normal"
> G-T scale, it would be nearly six feet long and over four feet wide for
> each of three decks. Retail price would be over $50 and nobody has
> enough room to set the thing up.
>
> The individual in question thought that if printed in a smaller scale
> (each hex would be 3/8 of an inch) it would be "just barely playable,
> sort of" and would have the advantage of being the biggest ship for
> which deck plans had ever been published. This would fit on ten 11x17
> sheets (four for the top and bottom decks, two for the mid deck, maybe
> two more for the variant arrangements of the cargo hold).
>
> G-T players would never have seen such a thing, and I'm not sure (not
> convinced) that it would be something they would be happy with on two
> grounds: the ship is bigger than they need and the hexes are too small
> for anything other than "point of reference" work.
>
> If done "for mail order only" then using the really big laser engine we
> have, we could print it ourselves and wouldn't care how may we sold, but
> the market would be very limited. If done for sale in stores we'd have
> to sink over a thousand bucks into it to print the cover and pay the
> artist to do the crew art. I don't know that we'd make a thousand bucks
> in sales.
>
> My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on but if
> somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
>

What scale was the Azhanti High Lighting printed in? This was the
biggest ship that I know they published deck plans for.
 
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In our last thrilling episode, Stephen V Cole
<design@starfleetgames.com> was pushed over the cliffs of
rec.games.frp.gurps on Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:57:31 -0600 by Zoog, minion
of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

>It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
>GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
>as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
>starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
>of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
>sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.

Um, which Free Trader is this? The Traveller version or some other
one.. it isn't clear in your post.
--

Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
 

Francois

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Apr 12, 2004
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Recieved from Douglas Berry on 12/6/2004 4:33 PM:
> In our last thrilling episode, Stephen V Cole
> <design@starfleetgames.com> was pushed over the cliffs of
> rec.games.frp.gurps on Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:57:31 -0600 by Zoog, minion
> of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
>
>
>>It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
>>GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
>>as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
>>starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
>>of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
>>sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.
>
>
> Um, which Free Trader is this? The Traveller version or some other
> one.. it isn't clear in your post.

SVC is referencing the GPD Free Trader. I'm not sure how it compares to
the Traveller version of the Free Trader, but I can imagine that it's
bigger and faster than the one found in Traveller, if only because
that's the general trend when converting between the two systems. :)

--
Francois
Prime Directive Online
http://www.primedirectiveonline.com
 
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Douglas Berry wrote:

> Um, which Free Trader is this? The Traveller version or some other
> one.. it isn't clear in your post.

I'd /thought/ he was talking about doing a Prime Directive version of the
Beowulf
Free Trader, though now that you mention it the Free Trader in GPD (p.
137-139) is probably what he's talking about with a passanger capacity of
100, full labs, etc. I hadn't checked my books to remember what he was
talking about.

At any rate, I think doing up deck plans generally hasn't worked out so
well for SJGames - from what I can tell they only ever did one print run of
any of their deck plans. While they're really neat, they're just too darned
big even for smaller ships. You really have to have a whole table available
to dedicate to laying them out (and doing the GPD Free Trader is even
larger than the GT Beowulf).


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it has to be some kind of a trek ship or they have pooched traveller
beyond recognition. phasers, transporters and tractor beams???




On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:33:47 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

>In our last thrilling episode, Stephen V Cole
><design@starfleetgames.com> was pushed over the cliffs of
>rec.games.frp.gurps on Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:57:31 -0600 by Zoog, minion
>of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
>
>>It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
>>GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
>>as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
>>starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
>>of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
>>sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.
>
>Um, which Free Trader is this? The Traveller version or some other
>one.. it isn't clear in your post.
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
>Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
>
>"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
> when they do it from religious conviction."
> Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.

www.redramps.com
 
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"Eric B. Smith" wrote:

> Stephen V Cole wrote:
> > My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on but
> > if somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
>
> You could just buy the Free Trader Deck Plans from SJGames...

Completely different ship with a similar name. The Star Fleet Battles free
trader is a lot bigger.
 
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Douglas Berry wrote:

> In our last thrilling episode, Stephen V Cole
> <design@starfleetgames.com> was pushed over the cliffs of
> rec.games.frp.gurps on Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:57:31 -0600 by Zoog, minion
> of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
>
> >It was noted that the Free Trader (published in a very small scale in
> >GPD3e) is a handy ship for an adventure group. It can be run by as few
> >as six people and can carry over a hundred. It has the full range of
> >starship abilities (tractors, transporters, labs, phasers). It has gobs
> >of cargo space which can be converted into a lot of other uses such as
> >sleeping are for uncomplaining passengers.
>
> Um, which Free Trader is this? The Traveller version or some other
> one.. it isn't clear in your post.

That's probably because I didn't know traveller had something called a free
trader. The one in SFU/GPD is entirely different and a lot bigger.
 
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Stephen V Cole wrote:
> "Eric B. Smith" wrote:
>
>> Stephen V Cole wrote:
>>> My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on
>>> but if somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
>>
>> You could just buy the Free Trader Deck Plans from SJGames...
>
> Completely different ship with a similar name. The Star Fleet Battles
> free trader is a lot bigger.

Yeah, I got that after someone else mentioned it and I looked in the book.

As for seeing the PD Free Trader, if it isn't going to be done at 1" scale
(which would /really/ be too darned big) then a more useful size would be
around 1/4-1/8" scale. This keeps the hexes large enough to be seen and
hand copied onto a 1" hex map but keeps the whole ship small enough to be
useable as a reference map.

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On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:27:23 GMT, "Eric B. Smith"
<smithericb@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Stephen V Cole wrote:
>> "Eric B. Smith" wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen V Cole wrote:
>>>> My first instinct is to say "pity it won't work" and just move on
>>>> but if somebody else has a viewpoint I would be honored to hear it.
>>>
>>> You could just buy the Free Trader Deck Plans from SJGames...
>>
>> Completely different ship with a similar name. The Star Fleet Battles
>> free trader is a lot bigger.
>
>Yeah, I got that after someone else mentioned it and I looked in the book.
>
>As for seeing the PD Free Trader, if it isn't going to be done at 1" scale
>(which would /really/ be too darned big) then a more useful size would be
>around 1/4-1/8" scale. This keeps the hexes large enough to be seen and
>hand copied onto a 1" hex map but keeps the whole ship small enough to be
>useable as a reference map.

One thing that I haven't seen done but think would work is to print
plans of the entire ship in the smaller scale (1/4" hexes would probably
be best) *and* print plans of key areas in 1" hexes. "Key areas" would
be any room where you'd expect combat to happen if the ship is boarded -
definitely the bridge and main engineering, and maybe the transporter
room and the armory (if present) as well. That way, the entire deck
plan is available for GMs who need it, and the important areas are ready
to use right away.

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be a
little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other fringe
groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil on rec.arts.anime.misc, 20 Jan 2004
 
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Rob Kelk wrote:

> One thing that I haven't seen done but think would work is to print
> plans of the entire ship in the smaller scale (1/4" hexes would probably
> be best) *and* print plans of key areas in 1" hexes. "Key areas" would
> be any room where you'd expect combat to happen if the ship is boarded -
> definitely the bridge and main engineering, and maybe the transporter
> room and the armory (if present) as well. That way, the entire deck
> plan is available for GMs who need it, and the important areas are ready
> to use right away.

An excellent idea. Perhaps combined with some geenric 1" rooms and
corridors, with a sheet of cut-apart "furniture" to make other areas as
needed?

Alex Chobot
 
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Alex Chobot wrote:
> Rob Kelk wrote:
>
>> One thing that I haven't seen done but think would work is to print
>> plans of the entire ship in the smaller scale (1/4" hexes would
>> probably be best) *and* print plans of key areas in 1" hexes. "Key
>> areas" would be any room where you'd expect combat to happen if the
>> ship is boarded - definitely the bridge and main engineering, and
>> maybe the transporter room and the armory (if present) as well.
>> That way, the entire deck plan is available for GMs who need it, and
>> the important areas are ready to use right away.
>
> An excellent idea. Perhaps combined with some geenric 1" rooms and
> corridors, with a sheet of cut-apart "furniture" to make other areas
> as needed?

That could certainly work, especially for really large ships. Throw in some
shuttle craft done in both 1/4" and 1" scales, at least for the ships that
have docking bays. I think I'd also do the Sick Bay in 1" scale.

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