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3rd Ed. vs. 4th Ed

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Anonymous
December 25, 2004 3:27:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Hi over there,

can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions? I
googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed only is a small update. Some
rules are organized in another book, but mostly it's the same.

So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed. Is the 4th Ed
necessary at all?

Greetings and merry Christmas
FNS

--
Diese Nachricht wurde per EDV erstellt und ist ohne Unterschrift gültig

More about : 3rd 4th

Anonymous
December 25, 2004 3:27:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

While I wouldn't consider 4E to be a "small update," I see very few
problems converting older stuff over. Of course, no one is holding a
gun to your head, forcing you to switch, it's just that any new
material released will be for 4E, and if you game at conventions,
that's most likely what will be played there.


Ralph Glatt
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 3:27:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Felix N. Steiner wrote:

> Hi over there,
>
> can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions? I
> googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed only is a small update. Some
> rules are organized in another book, but mostly it's the same.

I wouldn't call it a small update. A couple of major things have been added,
and quite a few things have be redesigned, in addition to the system as a
whole being tightened up.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
Related resources
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 5:43:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Felix N. Steiner <felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi over there,
>
> can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions? I
> googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed only is a small update. Some
> rules are organized in another book, but mostly it's the same.

It's cleaner, mostly. 3rd edition had so much stuff added to it that it
had become kind of a mess, and 4th edition cleaned that up. It's also
more balanced and it scales a bit better. A good new edition, if you ask
me. It's a small update compared to AD&D2->D&D3, but that's because that
wasn't a new edition, but a totally new game. GURPS4 is pretty good as
new editions go.

> So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed.

Most sourcebooks contain mostly background info, so that's not a problem.
Templates and weapon damage need to be updated, though. Number-heavy books
like Vehicles are basically obsolete, although if you don't care that it
doesn't quite fit, I suppose you could use it if you really wanted to.

> Is the 4th Ed necessary at all?

Ofcourse not. You can keep playing playing 3rd. You don't even have to
play GURPS at all, but if you do, I really recommend 4th. It's good.


mcv.
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 10:28:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 25 Dec 2004 05:44:07 -0800, julian814@hotmail.com wrote:
>While I wouldn't consider 4E to be a "small update," I see very few
>problems converting older stuff over. Of course, no one is holding a
>gun to your head, forcing you to switch, it's just that any new
>material released will be for 4E, and if you game at conventions,
>that's most likely what will be played there.

And you can get GURPS Update here:
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/resources/4eupdate.pdf

It'll help with converting from 3rd to 4th. Check out GURPS Lite for 4th
for more info on what's in 4th:
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/

--
chuk
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 11:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

In article <41cd4f39$0$27951$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,
"Felix N. Steiner" <felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi over there,
>
> can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions? I
> googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed only is a small update. Some
> rules are organized in another book, but mostly it's the same.

Well GURPS 3e had grown to the point it was moving from mess to disaster:
even with the compendiums there were dozons of rules hidden away in too
many books, a lot of 'special' rules in world books which really broke the
system aspect of GURPS, and finally many genre books that had been left
unchanged since before the compendiums came out (Magic was the worst of
this lot) which just added to the rule consistancy problem.

> So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed.

Yes and that is exactly what GURPS Update
<http://sjgames.com/gurps/resources/4eupdate.pdf&gt; is for. However if you
are converting a worldbook that did something 'nonstandard' with the GURPS
rule set (Magery in Castle Falkenstein for example) there are going to be
some huiccups.


>Is the 4th Ed necessary at all?

Well if you don't have to deal with the rule bloat problem 3e I would call
that 'necessary' :-) I can say it is far easier to make characters for any
setting in 4e than 3e.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 2:48:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Felix N. Steiner" <felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:41cd4f39$0$27951$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...
> Hi over there,
>
> can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions?

Major stuff I've noticed so far:

Character generation:

ST and HT +/- 10 points pr. level, DX and IQ +/- 20
HP = ST and Fat = HT are now standard
Many/all secondary stats are directly modifiable, eg. Move at +/- 5 point
pr. level (no tie to Running)
Very comprehensive Special Powers toolkits - possibly the biggest boon and
difference. Very important and impact-ful.
All skill types now have the same progression: 1 points to open, then 2,
then 4 pr. level after that.

(Combat) rules

PD gone from defence rules (well, almost - shields still have something
similar) and all defences are based on (skill/2) + 3 (exept Dodge, of
course, which still get's the +3, though). The dynamic around the Retreat
rule now really determines the most effective defence strategies, which
actually makes the gameboard move around a lot more.
Concentrate-powers generally fire at once, not at beginning of next turn as
in 3rd.
New Maneuvers - Deceptive Strikes and Rapid Strikes
Snap Shot gone
(No IQ bonus on gun skills)
New and very elegant Rapid Fire rules for modern games (includes Shotguns)
Explosion rules completely altered
Stunning and Knockout is completely redone.
Fatigue loss effects redone somewhat
Actual rules for medical skills in recovery
Death chances altered
Vehicle stats and rules completely altered

>I googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed only is a small update.

There are many small tweaks and changes in how (dis)ads and skills work.
Small tweaks all around elsewhere. As someone said, not a change on the
magnitude of AD&D2 to 3e, and backwards much compatible, but there _are_
many changes that streamlines things, making the GURPS engine feel much the
same but running smoother IMHO.

> Some
> rules are organized in another book, but mostly it's the same.

Not sure what you mean here?

> So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed. Is the 4th Ed
> necessary at all?

Sourcebooks, yes - toolkits no. The more numbers and stats there are, the
more conversion work needed. Characters are generally good to go, though.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 11:44:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

>>>>> "FNS" == Felix N Steiner <felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> writes:

FNS> can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these
FNS> two editions? I googled a bit and it looks like if the 4th Ed
FNS> only is a small update. Some rules are organized in another
FNS> book, but mostly it's the same.

The basic concepts and mechanics are the same, but there are a lot of
minor tweaks and a few major tweaks. If you're playing characters at
low point values, you'll notice a few differences, most for the
better: new language rules, absence of PD, new rules for missile
weapons. If you're playing characters at high point values, you'll
notice more differences, also most for the better: in particular, the
system scales up better than it did before.

In either case you'll notice that the Basic Set has been very well
re-organized, and that alone comes close to being worth the price.
There's also been an emphasis on modularizing characters: templates
are now an official part of the Basic Set. This probably won't matter
much to experienced GURPS players, but the ability to restrict the set
of choices makes things a lot more accessible to novices.

FNS> So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed.

It depends on the sourcebook.

Some of them rely on things that have changed completely. Most of
Supers, for instance, is better handled by things in the new basic
rules. Vehicles is pretty much obsolete, and is slated for
replacement. Bestiary is probably adaptable, but the trend in 4th
edition is to build animals out of existing advantages, and 3/e
Bestiary doesn't do that.

Others are entirely usable, but need to be filtered through GURPS
Update and may have changes in point costs as a result. Cops, for
instance, is largely background information; the bulk of rule content
in it is templates, which translate easily -- and if they're just
being used as guidelines or inspiration, they don't really even need
to translate at all.

Some are in the middle, and a lot of these are the ones that have
special rules for different genres. GURPS Mage: the Ascension has
crunchy rules bits that need to be reworked for 4th edition. The
magic system in Spirits is borderline usable as written there, but
there are guidelines in Basic 4 for taking a similar approach but
based on the schools of standard GURPS magic.

FNS> Is the 4th Ed necessary at all?

If you're enjoying what you're doing, probably not immediately. A
reorganization of the 3/e rules, with the only changes being rules
clarifications, would have been worth the price, but 4/e is more than
that. Overall 4/e is a solid improvement over 3/e; whether that was
*necessary* or not is probably a matter of taste and opinion.

Charlton


--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 2:36:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:27:44 +0100, "Felix N. Steiner"
<felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> wrote:

>Hi over there,
>
>can anybody tell me, what are the differences between these two editions?

Well let's see now.

Psionic skills have been totally abandoned. Psi powers are now just
bought as advantages, no skill required.
Attributes are now purchased on a flat rate with IQ and DX being more
expensive.
ST is now hitpoints.
There's now a pretty good system for building many superpowers from
the ground up. Including incidentally the disadvantage "mana
dependant" for characters with magical powers that aren't spells.
All skills now have the same cost progression.
There is now no PD.
Hi tech weapons are now more likely to penetrate larger amounts of DR
rather than actually doing huge amounts of damage.
Oh, and they fixed Fireball, so now you can do some real damage with
it.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 7:54:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

mcv wrote:
> Felix N. Steiner <felix.n.steiner@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> > So can I use my "old" 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks with the 4th Ed.
>
> Most sourcebooks contain mostly background info, so that's not a
problem.
> Templates and weapon damage need to be updated, though. Number-heavy
books
> like Vehicles are basically obsolete, although if you don't care that
it
> doesn't quite fit, I suppose you could use it if you really wanted
to.
>

Does anyone have any word on when Space and Vehicles 4th ed. are due
out?

My campaign is so tech-heavy that I'm basically "stuck in 3rd" until
the gearhead stuff gets updated.

--
C.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 2:54:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 31 Dec 2004 04:54:24 -0800, chaos_israel@antisocial.com carved upon
a tablet of ether:

> Does anyone have any word on when Space and Vehicles 4th ed. are due
> out?

Not for a while yet, I'd say - there haven't been any mentions of
play-tests that I've seen. However, Ultra-Tech shouldn't be too far
off, as it's play-test finished a month or two back, and it will have
a design sequence for ultra-tech small-arms in it, I think.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
!