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Converting Ongoing Campaigns to 4E?

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January 20, 2005 5:54:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

All,

I've got a campaign that runs pretty sporadically, and in fact it has
been on hold for about a year since the last game because of other
people's games. However, with 4E out, there is some renewed interest in
running a GURPS game (a custom fantasy setting).

With a new edition, I was planning on starting everyone at 150 points
(the value the book says most heroes start at ... apparently with
higher DX and IQ costs, the average campaign is up). When I suggested
this to the players, everyone was interested in playing again, but not
in making new characters. I can't blame them, I gripe at the other main
GM every time he tries to restart campaigns over and over. So, the
consensus is that they might be up for playing, but they want to keep
their characters and continue the story from where it left off.

Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to 4E. How
have all of you handled this?

Have you done straight conversions, and not worried about the differing
point costs between characters? Are you hammering everyone back into a
150 base (i.e. making them shave off 50 points from their characters)?
Have you just added 50 points to your players, let them keep their
experience, and make their revised character fit into that point total
so there will be minimal change?

I initially gave extra points (150 vs 100) when the original game
kicked off because I wanted versatile characters with a rich selection
of skills towards their professions. I also asked everyone to avoid
min-maxing in good faith. It worked out and really, as it is, none of
the players have huge stat values or skill values. So, I don't feel
that just adding 50 points and then re-adjusting is going to change
much. I tried doing it with just +25 points but the two non-humans were
still pretty unworkable, with even more huge cuts in their stats
because the way racial stuff works now vs then and the fact that those
races had some DX and IQ bonuses. Also, I took 4E as a chance to revise
all my fantasy races and pull out every single social custom built into
the template (Sense of Duty to Nature) and charge them straight up for
the cost of the race. If players want the "traditional" racial social
disads, they can take them, they will be listed under the "typical
advantages and disadvantages" for each race.

Anyway, +25 points wasn't enough, +50 seems OK. With +50, half the
players' characters have to tuck in their shirt, and the other half
have to drop 20 lbs, but its workable.
How have you all dealt with this?

Thanks,

Lewis
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 2:29:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

>>>>> "L" == lewis <lewis@lwb.org> writes:

L> Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to
L> 4E. How have all of you handled this?

What I'd probably do if I were determined to convert is apply GURPS
Update fairly literally to all the characters, see where the point
values lie, and then either let them play with the point cost
discrepancies or require them to all hit a certain point total -
perhaps halfway between the average of the character point values and
the highest character point value.

At the same time, if the players weren't interested enough in the new
system to do the fairly minimal conversion work themeselves, I'd
probably just run the game in GURPS 3. I'm currently involved in a
game that's been running for a year and half, and it's going to stay
in GURPS 3 until it concludes, because there's no benefit from
switching.

Charlton


--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:37:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

lewis@lwb.org wrote:
> Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to 4E. How

You don't convert. You re-create.

> have all of you handled this?

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 6:19:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Check out this:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/resources/4eupdate.pdf

Then see what the point totals of the group come out to. If they are
all close to the same amount, then just go with it. Otherwise, I'd
ask the players to see if they could tweak their characters to a
suitable level (150 pts).

--
Joseph Mason
(Devil's advocate? Hell, I do his P.R. work.)
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 8:06:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

lewis@lwb.org wrote:
>
> Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to 4E. How
> have all of you handled this?

I would either

(1) Keep the campaign 3e and levae the characters alone

or

(2) have them make new characters using the concepts of the old ones.
Brandon
January 21, 2005 12:58:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Recieved from copeab@yahoo.com on 1/21/2005 7:06 AM:
> lewis@lwb.org wrote:
>
>>Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to 4E. How
>>have all of you handled this?
>
>
> I would either
>
> (1) Keep the campaign 3e and levae the characters alone
>
> or
>
> (2) have them make new characters using the concepts of the old ones.
> Brandon
>

For the Defenders of the Faith campaign I run online
(http://dotf.primedirectiveonline.com), we're planning on using number
2. A quick run-through of the GURPS Update document found that it
produced a far too varied result when it came to character values.

The players are allowed to create new characters. I've asked that the
new characters be similar in concept to their "original" characters...
for example, a gun-toting, cigar smoking Marine shoulding become an
expert biologist after the conversion. The amount of points they are
allowed to spend on their new characters is their current character
value, plus any unspent points they have saved up, plus 10%. Character
vales are averageing out to about 250 points, which is about right for a
team of elite Federation operatives.

We haven't officially converted, yet, but plan to do so once the 4/e
versions of the GURPS Prime Directive books come ou, which is planned to
happen in the next couple of weeks or so. Once we get all those
templates and races, we'lll be good to go!

--
Francois
Prime Directive Online
http://www.primedirectiveonline.com
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 5:39:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

lewis@lwb.org wrote:
> All,

> I've got a campaign that runs pretty sporadically, and in fact it has
> been on hold for about a year since the last game because of other
> people's games. However, with 4E out, there is some renewed interest in
> running a GURPS game (a custom fantasy setting).

> With a new edition, I was planning on starting everyone at 150 points
> (the value the book says most heroes start at ... apparently with
> higher DX and IQ costs, the average campaign is up). When I suggested
> this to the players, everyone was interested in playing again, but not
> in making new characters. I can't blame them, I gripe at the other main
> GM every time he tries to restart campaigns over and over. So, the
> consensus is that they might be up for playing, but they want to keep
> their characters and continue the story from where it left off.

> Fair enough, but now I have to convert all the characters to 4E. How
> have all of you handled this?

Don't. 4e has very little that I want, so I've decided that I'm in amber
at this point, and I'll just focus on expanding my 3e collections and
working those campaigns. My players by and large feel similarly, none of
them have bothered getting the new books.

BUT... You say that 4e is what's driving your players back to the game, so
that's not an option: e23 has an update feature that I belive reccomends
doing a straight conversion and letting the players point totals fall
where they may.

Realisticly, I'd let the players decide how they want to do it, since
making ir be fun for them is what it's about.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 9:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 14:54:02 -0800, lewis@lwb.org carved upon a tablet of
ether:

> I initially gave extra points (150 vs 100) when the original game
> kicked off because I wanted versatile characters with a rich selection
> of skills towards their professions. I also asked everyone to avoid
> min-maxing in good faith. It worked out and really, as it is, none of
> the players have huge stat values or skill values. So, I don't feel
> that just adding 50 points and then re-adjusting is going to change
> much. I tried doing it with just +25 points but the two non-humans were
> still pretty unworkable, with even more huge cuts in their stats
> because the way racial stuff works now vs then and the fact that those
> races had some DX and IQ bonuses. Also, I took 4E as a chance to revise
> all my fantasy races and pull out every single social custom built into
> the template (Sense of Duty to Nature) and charge them straight up for
> the cost of the race. If players want the "traditional" racial social
> disads, they can take them, they will be listed under the "typical
> advantages and disadvantages" for each race.

I'd convert the characters according to the conversion document,
re-applying any racial templates as you see fit. I wouldn't bother
with the point totals unless they're very different - let them be. If
this bother you and/or the players you could give the low-point PCs
more points each session until they're caught up.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 10:25:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

I did a a conversion that kept all stats and skill levels the same (even HP
& fatigue), and found out that, basically:

The more points a character has in attributes in 3e, especially in DX and
IQ, the more (s)he's going to jump ahead of the others pointswise in 4e. Eg
I had a Rogue type character with DX 15. 60 cp in 3e, 100 in 4e, an instant
40 point jump.

I matters s*** gamewise, though, and I consider the conversion succesful.
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 1:01:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 14:54:02 -0800, lewis@lwb.org wrote:

[...]
>How have you all dealt with this?

I found that 150-Point PC in 3rd Ed. are ROUGHLY equivalent to 200 CP
in 4th Ed., that means +25%.

Much higher starting point values don't convert too well: you have to
rewrite the PC, more or less, expecially when dealing with
superpowers.

Hope this is of help.

Korin Duval

--

"Truth requires a great amount of courage;
Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."
January 24, 2005 4:31:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

All,

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. What I ended up doing was just
giving out 50 more character points and then converting the characters
to be 4E legal. Doing it that way, 3 of the 5 characters ended up
having everything the same, pretty much. One of the characters was a
linguist and I had a lot issues bringing that one in line (not that it
matters much since that player moved to Georgia). Finally, one of the
characters had to drop his DX and IQ one each because he was an Elf,
and I changed the point cost of Elves in my campaign significantly
(they doubled in cost). Still, the character is probably the most
versatile character in the group.
Bottom Line: it all worked out!

Thanks,

Lewis
!