Alchemy in ritual magic campaign ?

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Now I ran into a problem while in planning stage of modern urban
low-fantasy mini-campaign. Roughly based on Gurps:Voodoo, but using the
Gurps:Spirits magic system.

Problem:
Many historical ritual-magic traditions seem include often complex
alchemical traditions as well. Should I change the alchemy into a
complementary skill for ritual magic or make a parallel form of the
magic (or something Path of Transmutations defaulting Alchemy-6). And if
the latter, any good ideas for rituals, charms etc. that would be
approarite. If used as complementary skill, i think that it woulb be
pretty much a prerequite for making charms(or alternate way).

Ideas, Comments

.../Mika
 
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On Sun, 08 May 2005 19:48:18 +0300, Mika Peltola
<atomiclich_@_hotmail.com> wrote:

>Now I ran into a problem while in planning stage of modern urban
>low-fantasy mini-campaign. Roughly based on Gurps:Voodoo, but using the
>Gurps:Spirits magic system.
>
>Problem:
>Many historical ritual-magic traditions seem include often complex
>alchemical traditions as well. Should I change the alchemy into a
>complementary skill for ritual magic or make a parallel form of the
>magic (or something Path of Transmutations defaulting Alchemy-6). And if
>the latter, any good ideas for rituals, charms etc. that would be
>approarite. If used as complementary skill, i think that it woulb be
>pretty much a prerequite for making charms(or alternate way).
>
>Ideas, Comments
>
>../Mika

Hmm... seems some alchemists thought of gases and other weird
substances they discovered as spirits - f.ex, carbon dioxide was the
"spirit of the woods". This idea might be used to mix the two systems?

....
 
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I think I'd be more likely to add charms to each of the existing
pathways than make a new path with all the charms. Some of the voodoo
paths already include rituals that result in a charm (for example
Chaperone).
 
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Scooter the Mighty wrote:
> I think I'd be more likely to add charms to each of the existing
> pathways than make a new path with all the charms. Some of the voodoo
> paths already include rituals that result in a charm (for example
> Chaperone).
>
I see your point. Here's my quick take on alchemy as a "sister art" for
the ritual magic.

First and foremost alchemy in world of "shadow war" is Lodge skill, most
commonly practiced by those who cannot attain true power over spirits.
Among lodges alchemist are treated like "poor cousins" of true adepts
(fits quite nicely to supremacist connotions of some lodges).

Although the alchemy comparatively slow even when compared to average
ritual magician ritual, it has it's good sides too. While alchemical
potions and charms are slow to make, they are usually simple and quick
to use.

Game mechanics:
*Alchemist may use his alchemy skill in place of ritual magic and path
skill.
*Brewing a potion takes minimum one hour (-5 to skill)(all time
modifiers apply, extending time, performing ritual over several days.)
*Sacred Space modifier has half bonus/penalty
*Symbolic presentation bonus has effect only on "targeted
potions/charms" (ie. using drop of your blood in healing potion "keys
the healing potion to you, making it more effective") and "target
present" bonus does not apply.
*Spiritual symbols is replaced by Quality of lab bonus.(need to work out
specifics)
*Sacrifices, Multiple targets and are modifiers don't apply.
*Duration penalties apply fully.

Example: Mr.Alchemist attempts to brew a potion of Dose (sort of like
cure disease spell) to heal his buddy with bad case of lung fever (not
tuberculosis, i just don't know proper word for it).
Mr. Alchemist has skill 14 in Alchemy, and Dose normally would default
to Path of health. Erring on the side caution Mr. Alchemist waits for
Astrologically approarite time for +2 to skill. takes three times the
time needed to brew the potion (another +2), while not having chance or
time for DNA sample, he settles for drop of his friends blood(good for
another +2), lets assume that he has a good lab for net 0 penalty.
Now we have a net skill of 20(16 if someone other that the target
consumes the potion), Now being a quite sickly guy his friend has HT of
9 (good for -3 to skill) and the virus is knows antibiotic resistant
strain (good for another -3 to skill).
But while brewing the potion Mr. Alchemists player will roll vs. the
modified skill of 20 and record the margin of success, this determines
the shelf time for potion(say he succeeded with six, on the duration
table that would fall halfway between one week and one month. This would
give potion shelf life of two weeks after brewing). When potion is
consumed another roll is made this time vs. the modified skill of 14.
If successful potion works out as it should, if not well then it is just
wasted time and effort.

Did i make any sense ?

.../mika
 
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In article <42808b72$1_2@news.dnainternet.net>,
Mika Peltola <atomiclich_@_hotmail.com> wrote:

> while not having chance or
>time for DNA sample, he settles for drop of his friends blood(good for
>another +2)

Tiny nit, I'd rate a drop of blood _way_ over a DNA sample. Much
more symbolic and contains a intact DNA sample, prepped DNA is
at least one step removed from the donor (probably more, DNA purification
damages DNA).

--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.
 
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Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
> In article <42808b72$1_2@news.dnainternet.net>,
> Mika Peltola <atomiclich_@_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> while not having chance or
>>time for DNA sample, he settles for drop of his friends blood(good for
>>another +2)
>
>
> Tiny nit, I'd rate a drop of blood _way_ over a DNA sample. Much
> more symbolic and contains a intact DNA sample, prepped DNA is
> at least one step removed from the donor (probably more, DNA purification
> damages DNA).
>
Weell on the second thought, I'd agree on that. (Blame C.J.Karella, he's
the one who wrote table originally). But doest anyone have any comments
on mechanism, etc.

.../mika
 
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Mika Peltola wrote:
> Scooter the Mighty wrote:
> > I think I'd be more likely to add charms to each of the existing
> > pathways than make a new path with all the charms. Some of the
voodoo
> > paths already include rituals that result in a charm (for example
> > Chaperone).
> >
> I see your point. Here's my quick take on alchemy as a "sister art"
for
> the ritual magic.
>
> First and foremost alchemy in world of "shadow war" is Lodge skill,
most
> commonly practiced by those who cannot attain true power over
spirits.
> Among lodges alchemist are treated like "poor cousins" of true adepts

> (fits quite nicely to supremacist connotions of some lodges).
>
> Although the alchemy comparatively slow even when compared to average

> ritual magician ritual, it has it's good sides too. While alchemical
> potions and charms are slow to make, they are usually simple and
quick
> to use.
>
> Game mechanics:
> *Alchemist may use his alchemy skill in place of ritual magic and
path
> skill.
> *Brewing a potion takes minimum one hour (-5 to skill)(all time
> modifiers apply, extending time, performing ritual over several
days.)
> *Sacred Space modifier has half bonus/penalty
> *Symbolic presentation bonus has effect only on "targeted
> potions/charms" (ie. using drop of your blood in healing potion "keys

> the healing potion to you, making it more effective") and "target
> present" bonus does not apply.
> *Spiritual symbols is replaced by Quality of lab bonus.(need to work
out
> specifics)
> *Sacrifices, Multiple targets and are modifiers don't apply.
> *Duration penalties apply fully.
>

OK, I see what you're talking about. I think that I would be inclined
to have it based on a different style of initiation than Voodoo, so
that people couldn't get into it for just a point or two. I don't
think I would model it so closely on the Voodoo ritual system either.
I would just go with a straight ritual time, rather than extending it
for bonuses. Cooking stuff too long is as bad as not cooking it long
enough. I would keep the bonus for good labware and for targeting the
alchemy to a specific target.
 
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On 10 May 2005 16:45:29 -0700, "Scooter the Mighty"
<Greyguy3@hotmail.com> wrote:


>OK, I see what you're talking about. I think that I would be inclined
>to have it based on a different style of initiation than Voodoo, so
>that people couldn't get into it for just a point or two. I don't
>think I would model it so closely on the Voodoo ritual system either.
>I would just go with a straight ritual time, rather than extending it
>for bonuses. Cooking stuff too long is as bad as not cooking it long
>enough. I would keep the bonus for good labware and for targeting the
>alchemy to a specific target.
>

Really, potion making is a good (and genre appropriate) way to create
combat useful rituals. Just as you can enchant a shirt to repel
bullets, you can enchant a pot full of woad for protection or a flask
of high proof alchohol to breath fire.
 
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> Really, potion making is a good (and genre appropriate) way to create
> combat useful rituals. Just as you can enchant a shirt to repel
> bullets, you can enchant a pot full of woad for protection or a flask
> of high proof alchohol to breath fire.
>
The alcohol based firebreathing potion sounds silly for the campaign I'm
planning but the "woad" paint would be nice :)

IIRC "woad" was the blueish color used by scots (and possibly celts) in
war painting of warriors to induce invulnerability in spearmen ? ? ?.

.../mika
 
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On Wed, 11 May 2005 22:40:32 +0300, Mika Peltola
<atomiclich_@_hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Really, potion making is a good (and genre appropriate) way to create
>> combat useful rituals. Just as you can enchant a shirt to repel
>> bullets, you can enchant a pot full of woad for protection or a flask
>> of high proof alchohol to breath fire.
>>
>The alcohol based firebreathing potion sounds silly for the campaign I'm
> planning but the "woad" paint would be nice :)
>
>IIRC "woad" was the blueish color used by scots (and possibly celts) in
>war painting of warriors to induce invulnerability in spearmen ? ? ?.

According to Randall Garrett, woad is made from a ground up leaf that
is arrow shaped. The idea is that it would magically protect the
warrior from arrows.
 
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David Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2005 22:40:32 +0300, Mika Peltola
> <atomiclich_@_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IIRC "woad" was the blueish color used by scots (and possibly celts)
>> in war painting of warriors to induce invulnerability in spearmen ?
>> ? ?.

I believe Caeser says it is to make them look fearsome, but body painting as
part of a pre-battle protective ritual is pretty common worldwide, so it's
plausible. So is using dye to enhance ritual scarification (and of course
its more sophisticated form, tattooing, often is used for both these
purposes in our modern culture, though you might not get a lot of people to
admit it). I've seen serious looking discussions that maintain the Britanni
and Picts actually used ritual scarification rather than paint, and I don't
think there is any real evidence woad is actually involved.
Woad is a blue dye, probably the principal one in Europe until indigo
imports from India (which contain the same chemical) took over around the
17th century.

--
--
M Lloyd