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Samsung 244T problems, any help or suggestions appreciated

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October 23, 2006 11:26:54 AM

I purchased a not so nice Samsung 244T 24'' 16:10 widescreen monitor a week or so ago, to replace my 19'' Hyundai L90D+ 4:3 monitor. I say its not so nice because I get lotsa ghosting, about 1.5 to 2cm long when playing games. It's not very noticable on the desktop but when you test it it's most definitely there. Is this a common problem with 24'' TFTs in general or does it sound like a faulty monitor. I looked at reviews of this monitor and nearly every one said that there is no ghosting, although alot of input lag, of which I have not seen any evidence. It is not my PC, I have tested practically every piece of hardware, except the CPU and mobo. I have tried it through DVI and analogue with the cables that came with it and with the cables from my L90D+ that I know to be good. If it's a problem with the 244T in general, I have seen that the Acer AL2423W is reviewed to be the best 24'' for gaming, is this true? I did not buy the Acer because the label Acer does not fill me with confidence.
If you guys could give me some advice and/or first hand experience with these monitors it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :) 
a b C Monitor
October 23, 2006 7:11:14 PM

Are you running it off of DVI?

Also, do you suppose you could download this little test and run the second to last test in the program:
http://tfttest.fromru.com/
It is a small response time test. Do you still see the enormously long trails in that test?
Unfortunatey, it only checks black to white and white to black response, not the more important various grey scale levels. On the Viewsonic VP2030b, I see perhaps a trail of about 9 pixels before and behind the square on that test. It looks like a gradient from white to dark grey/black.

Finally, for your own benefit, you may want to try out this program:
http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_monitor.html
get the "Pixel Persistance Analyzer"
Then, run the test where it scrolls flags across the screen.
Ignore colors and just focus on grey scales (colors on LCD monitors are made up of combining the grey scales anyways). To be evey more thorough, check how things look with some of the following combinations:
black flag, white background
black flag, dk grey background
black flag, grey background
black flag, light grey background

dk grey flag, white background
dk grey flag, light grey background
dk grey flag, grey background
dk grey flag, dk grey background

grey flag, white background
grey flag, light grey background

lt grey flag, white background

That should approimate the various transition combinations.
October 23, 2006 9:02:35 PM

In regards to the first test, it's very hard to see what size the box should be in the first place. I would say though that there is a trail approx .5 to 1cm infront and behind it. It also says that the monitor is running @ 16 to 17ms response time. I thought this screen was 6ms! 8O , does that mean it's faulty?
And in regards to the scrolling flags, these results are @ the default tempo.
Black -> White = 92
White -> Black = 92
Black -> Grey = It wasnt even right @ 100
White -> Grey = 97
I'm not sure what that last one tells me :?
Related resources
a b C Monitor
October 24, 2006 2:30:54 AM

Ignore what it says it is running at. That is not actually a measurement of response time, but a correlation of the refresh rate (a refresh rate of 60hz would equal around 16ms response time). Computer software can never measure the response time of LCD pixels without some kind of sensor (like your eyes) to tell the computer what you see.

Now, as for what the box should look like. On a CRT monitor you will see absolutely zero trailing (maybe 1 pixel at the most). The square will look sharp and distinct. However, you did say that you saw a 1cm trail/ghosting, so I was wondering if you saw something that bad here or if you saw something similar to what most other LCDs show.

Now, you did say that you saw a .5 to 1cm trail. If it's more like 1cm, then that sounds pretty noticeable. I'm not sure how much .5cm is, so that's hard to compare for me. All I know is that it is around 9pixels on the VP2030b.

As for the flag, here's how to use it:
Ignore the two sliders at the bottom.
Click next test. That should show lots of red.
Now, there are 6 sliders at the top: 2 groups of 3 - a left and a right one.
If you wanted to test black to white and white to black transitions, then you would set on group of sliders to 0, 0, and 0, then the other groups (say the right one) to 255, 255, and 255. Then look at the leading and trailing edges.
Alternatively, to look at dk grey to white transitions and vice versa, you might set on slider to 255, 255, 255 for white and the other group to something only 25% of the way - 64.
October 24, 2006 3:36:51 PM

It sounds like your monitor is performing exactly how it should be. LCDs are just not as good as CRTs still for gaming. Consumers claim that monitors have "absolutely no ghosting" in reviews, but they are wrong (half the time I think people "trick themselves" into thinking that their monitor is perfect so they can be happy with their purchase). The reality of the situation is: every LCD has some ghosting. Also, manufacturer latency doesn't reflect real-world latency.

Check this THG review of the Samsung 215TW out:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/03/wide_format_lcd_...

Published latency is 8 ms. Real world latency is up to 20 ms (note how much lower VX922 is). Even though the manufacturer specs of a lot of monitors match the Viewsonic VX922, they don't stack up very well in THG tests.

If you are a hardcore gamer, get a Viewsonic VX922 (assuming you don't want to go to a CRT). If you're a hardcore gamer but you're dying for the extra real-estate a 24" monitor gives you, buy 2 VX922s.

If you must get a 24" panel, I personally would lean more towards Dell than Samsung at this point (I think the 2407 is a better monitor, and at least Dell has sort of acknowledged on forums that input lag exists). I was a long-time supporter of Samsung LCDs, but I mutinied against them when I bought a 214T. It was trash, and it made me mad to pay over 600 $ for a monitor that was useless to me. I contacted Samsung support about it and they were pretty much useless.

Anyway, good luck! :D 
October 26, 2006 8:14:10 PM

I don't think it's going to get any better, so I have all but decided to go for a surround gaming solution, comprising of 3 Viewsonic VX922s and a Matrox TripleHead2Go box so it will work with my 7800GTXs in SLI. Its damn expensive but worth it :)  . I saw screenshots of Half-Life 2 @ 3840x1024! 8O at www.widescreengamingforum.com, here's the link, I think you'll be pleased, http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph.... I'll have to sell my Samsung, never mind. I'm not so pissed off now I know there is a widescreen gaming solution for me out there. All I have to do now, is pay for it.... DOH! lol :lol: 
Thanks for the input guys
October 26, 2006 8:45:05 PM

Quote:
"... I was a long-time supporter of Samsung LCDs, but I mutinied against them when I bought a 214T. It was trash, and it made me mad to pay over 600 $ for a monitor that was useless to me...." :D 


Curious as to why you say it is "worthless to you".... not good for gaming, or what?
October 27, 2006 4:02:11 AM

Quote:
"... I was a long-time supporter of Samsung LCDs, but I mutinied against them when I bought a 214T. It was trash, and it made me mad to pay over 600 $ for a monitor that was useless to me...." :D 


Curious as to why you say it is "worthless to you".... not good for gaming, or what?
Yeah... the lag on it sucks. You can see an actual lag-time between when you move your mouse and when it shows up on the screen (it's suttle, mind you, but there all the same).
October 27, 2006 10:29:17 AM

Haven't there been other larger monitors with input lags which were later fixed with a firmware upgrade? Perhaps you'll be as fortunate. :D 
October 29, 2006 4:05:21 PM

I don't know of other monitors fixed by firmware. I have heard that the latest Dell 2407s are better than the older monitors, but I don't think they are 100% perfect.

Anyway, I took my Samsung back so I don't care about that any more :D  .
October 29, 2006 4:39:59 PM

I was checking Newegg comments... many mentioned:

A. "No lag at all", in spite of others complaining of it

B. Getting a newer/faster video card

C. Getting a high performance mouse

Sounds like the lag issue resides elsewhere than the 244T...
October 29, 2006 7:04:02 PM

No, it sounds like anybody can say anything, and you can't trust everything you hear. So, just try a 244t out before you buy if you are looking.

If you own one and input lag bugs you, you're doomed (Samsung support won't help you with it because it's an issue w/ monitor spec that can't be fixed).
a b C Monitor
October 30, 2006 4:32:42 PM

In response to Hose and dean7....
Indeed, just because someone says they don't see lag doesn't mean it isn't there. However, I suspect it could be possible that this issue of lag may just only occur on some of the panels or certain firmware versions, or under special cases -- dont' know.

Regarding the reliability of comments, I would agree with dean7. For example, there are many people who say they do not see streaking or smearing on some LCD monitors, however the fact remains that all, and I mean even the fastest ones, have streaking or smearing from slow response times. So, that just goes to show that you can't trust many of these comments/reviews.
October 30, 2006 4:45:17 PM

Maybe all the widescreens just plain SUCK, and we should void them...

"LONG LIVE THE NEC 90GX2".... :lol: 

(Actually, the "GX2" line is already being replaced with the "GX2 Pro" line...)
November 1, 2006 5:44:46 AM

Dude, friggin' A to that. I used a CRT the other day and I was surprised by the quality of it. The truth is: LCDs have a long way to come.
!