Too young to play?

[Jim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
(almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.

Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
reading through it.

All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?

On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
own?

Opinions?

Jim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Jim wrote:

> So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
> TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
> (almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>
> Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
> even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
> across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
> reading through it.
>
> All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
> are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
> the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?
>
> On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
> we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
> love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
> can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
> Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
> own?
>
> Opinions?

As a straight introduction, you could probably do it at 7 or 8. Introduce
it as a game of "lets pretend" with some rules, but realize that you'll
probably be keeping track of almost all the rules.

9 to 10 is a good for simple games like AD&D, or most White Wolf systems
(note, however, that WW's settings are adult).

12 is good for complete gaming systems like GURPS.

As you said, though, much depends on the child.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Jim" <j_green71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121278297.327908.180450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
> TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
> (almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>
> Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
> even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
> across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
> reading through it.
>
> All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
> are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
> the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?
>
> On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
> we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
> love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
> can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
> Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
> own?
>
> Opinions?
>
> Jim
>

Hi, Jim,

As you say, it depends on the kid.

My one experience with young people playing was when the 9-year-old son of
one of our group joined us. Twelve years later, he's a fine player and GM.

YMMV (even more than usual)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Jim wrote:
> So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
> TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
> (almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>
> Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
> even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
> across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
> reading through it.
[...]

> Opinions?

Now my own Gaming started at 8 when some older boys [sons of a firend
of my father] where playing, I got to watch [but they where not
intrested teaching me]
I looked like OD&D.

it took me a year to get my own copy and Teach myself, a couple of
frineds and my younger sister. it was of cource little more the a monty
hall dungon craw, hey I was young and did not have a more expranced
"mentor"

Given how little you actully need to know to play GURPS [All you need
to undestand really is the basic skill mechism, at first the Mentor han
hand turnch the charcter consept into a stat sheet, and interting the
desription into the persfic methords.

Sure GURPS would require them to be older to start, if they were
teaching them selves how to play from the books. But with an expranced
GM, GURPS make a Great intro system [becuase of the traspartly easy
ness of moved from descrtipon to manouvers].

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

"Jim" <j_green71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121278297.327908.180450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> [...]
> All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
> are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
> the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be
introduced?

(Answer not from experience, but personal opinion and guesswork)

I think that as soon as the child can understand the concepts of "Let's
pretend", games where your actions don't automatically succeed (e.g.,
Battleship), and games that use dice for conflict resolution or random
decisions rather than simple movement counts (e.g., Risk), the child is
ready to start learning how to synthesize these concepts into
"role-playing games."

>
> [...] How much do I scale things down for him?
> Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
> own?

This is where it depends most on the individual child. My approach would
be to start free-form roleplaying, without reference to any particular
rules system, and make arbitrary decisions on the basis of "good story".
Then, gradually add mechanics from a specific system for which the rules
are available. In your case, I'd recommend you GM a story of some genre
the child will find engaging, start adding rules, and leave the book
somewhere the child has access to it. Then, either one of you has the
option to start adding detail and complexity -- if your son is truly
interested, he'll start pushing for more detail in the system faster
than you're adding it.

Again, this is all guesswork on my part.

--
Rob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

<raven@westnet.poe.com> wrote in message
news:dAvBe.2488$S17.480615@monger.newsread.com...
> Jefferson <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> Jim wrote:
>
>> > So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
>> > TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
>> > (almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>> >
>> > Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
>> > even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
>> > across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
>> > reading through it.
>> >
>> > All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
>> > are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
>> > the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?
>> >
>> > On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
>> > we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
>> > love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
>> > can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
>> > Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
>> > own?
>> >
>> > Opinions?
>
>> As a straight introduction, you could probably do it at 7 or 8.
>> Introduce
>> it as a game of "lets pretend" with some rules, but realize that you'll
>> probably be keeping track of almost all the rules.
>
> I'll tell you what sets a better introduction: Nethack. Get's em into the
> mechanics and the setting of coventional fantaasy and they're ready to be
> hooked: hack and slash, that's where it starts.
>
> My el;dest is five and he already does the exploring for me when we
> nethack.
>
>> 9 to 10 is a good for simple games like AD&D, or most White Wolf systems
>> (note, however, that WW's settings are adult).
>
>> 12 is good for complete gaming systems like GURPS.
>
>> As you said, though, much depends on the child.
>
> I'd stick with one system (GURPS 3rd of course) and simply pare it down to
> the minimum. At least, that's the plan.
>
Nah not gurps. AD&D is the gateway game of choice.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:23:22 -1000, "Warren Okuma" <wokuma@lava.net>
wrote:

><raven@westnet.poe.com> wrote in message
>news:dAvBe.2488$S17.480615@monger.newsread.com...
>> Jefferson <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

<snip>

>>> 9 to 10 is a good for simple games like AD&D, or most White Wolf systems
>>> (note, however, that WW's settings are adult).
>>
>>> 12 is good for complete gaming systems like GURPS.
>>
>>> As you said, though, much depends on the child.
>>
>> I'd stick with one system (GURPS 3rd of course) and simply pare it down to
>> the minimum. At least, that's the plan.
>>
>Nah not gurps. AD&D is the gateway game of choice.

IMHO, teaching people to roleplay by using AD&D is like teaching people
to program by using BASIC - it gives them too many bad habits that they
have to unlearn later when moving on to practically anything else.

If I'm introducing roleplaying to a pre-teen, I use a system that's easy
to pick up quickly, focused on something the youngster likes, and
sufficiently structured that systems like GURPS, Fuzion, or BESM won't
be incomprehensible when the youngster's ready to try something new.
Usually, this means getting out my copy of Toon...

--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"As far as Doug is concerned, "dignity" is just a tragic disease that
other people suffer from."
- Bob Schroeck, talking about his V&V character, 15 March 2005

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 13 Jul 2005 11:11:37 -0700, "Jim" <j_green71@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
>TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
>(almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>
>Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
>even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
>across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
>reading through it.
>
>All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
>are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
>the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?

If you are prepared to design the character for the child and remove
the frills from the combat system, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

<snip>
> can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
> Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
> own?
</snip>

If he's excited to begin playing there is no reason he should not - and
GURPS Lite is already pared down pretty much to the minimum... you could
ignore advantages and disadvantages, and simplify the skills to a very basic
list, but other than that, if he wants to play, just play (emphasizing the
play over the rules, of course)

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Tim wrote:

> If he's excited to begin playing there is no reason he should not - and
> GURPS Lite is already pared down pretty much to the minimum... you could
> ignore advantages and disadvantages, and simplify the skills to a very basic
> list, but other than that, if he wants to play, just play (emphasizing the
> play over the rules, of course)
>
> Tim

If I were working with a new person, esp. a youngish kid, I'd want him
to produce his own character CONCEPT, assisted by appropriate questions.
As GM, I'd do whatever numbers and rules things the newbie couldn't
handle, but I'd invoke whatever character mechanics best carried out the
concept--advantages, disadvantages, whatever. Consider the way this
group answered Kevin Gross's request to help him build 2nd Lt. Colin
Casey, 1st Cavalry (6/19/05 and following).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

My experience with my nephew and niece who began at ages 7 & 6:
(They joined an adult game of 8-9 people ages 15 - 40)
GURPS provides an adaptable format that using BASIC combat, is easy for
them to understand, HOWEVER, their attention span is limited. You will
have to repeat the story-line, and to some degree explain how their
character would react in given circumstances. WHEN they insist on doing
something really off the wall, DON'T kill off the character, but cause a
problem that Teamwork will help solve.

Make the scenario something that they can model their character after
something they've seen on TV or a movie, ie Secret Agent is modeled on
James Bond, Policeman Investigator is modeled on Law & Order characters,
Knight is modeled on Sir Gwain, or Lancelot in Excalibur, etc.

Or play a silly campaign such as Bunnys & Burrows or model it after a
Smurf cartoon.

YOU will have to keep track of most of the rules, and check their math.
(Definately discourage counting on fingers).

ENCOURAGE READING! Particularly things that will help their knowledge of
the campaign.

Regards,
Roger




> "Jim" <j_green71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121278297.327908.180450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>So I was digging around in my basement, and uncovered the huge stack of
>>TSR/AD&D I have collected oh-so-many-years-ago. My 8 year old son
>>(almost nine) was with me, and started asking what it all was.
>>
>>Now, I've not played since several years before he was even born, so
>>even I don't remember what everything is/was. But since I had stumbled
>>across rgfg a few weeks ago, I snagged a copy of GURPS Lite and started
>>reading through it.
>>
>>All of this, of course, leads to the question. Granted, most of these
>>are going to be answered "depends on the age/maturity/intelligence of
>>the child". But at what age should/can games like GURPS be introduced?
>>
>>On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
>>we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
>>love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
>>can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
>>Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
>>own?
>>
>>Opinions?
>>
>>Jim
>>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:32:25 GMT, raven@westnet.poe.com wrote:
>My el;dest is five and he already does the exploring for me when we
>nethack.

Just the tedious exploring, and you save the fun combat for yourself?
I just started my five year old on Nethack this month (after installing it
on my PDA). She mostly likes that you get a pet.



--
chuk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 13 Jul 2005 11:11:37 -0700, "Jim" <j_green71@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On the one hand, I would love for him to play. It would be something
>we could do together (at least for a while), plus a way to share my
>love of sci-fi/fantasy and acting/quick thinking/etc. But the systems
>can be pretty complicated. How much do I scale things down for him?
>Or should I just wait until he can handle the rules and whatnot on his
>own?

It is very much an individual kid thing. I ran a bit of GURPS with my son
at that age, and it was fine. That said, I did character creation by
asking him what kind of character he'd want to play and then doing most of
the number crunching myself. But an eight year old should be able to add
3d6 and see if it's less than a skill level, and roll a die or maybe two
for damage with a minor plus or minus. You'd be surprised at how quick
kids sometimes pick up this stuff.


--
chuk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

My cousin has entire family* "playing". He keeps track of the
characters. Each of the kids came up with their own character concept.
It does help that the family is into story telling sorts of things.
(His wife is a professional story teller.)

As other have indicated, I think the answer on this is when they show
an interest, they are ready. It is just up to the GM/adult to
tailor/adjust things so it is actually fun.

*He has children from 11 to 2. The 2 yo plays by coloring on a sheet of
paper which she calls her character.