Buying GURPS 4th ed.

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I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
and if so, which one?

Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
Edition?

--

The majestic equality of the law forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France


Comic book klatch: http://ibntumart.blogspot.com

 

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In rec.games.frp.gurps Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
> I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
> about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
> Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
> and if so, which one?

You need both, but if you get only one, get Characters.

> Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
> Edition?

Not very much, i'm afraid. Martial Arts is a very rules heavy book,
and although a lot of those ideas have survived into the 4th edition,
there will have to be completely revamped.


mcv.
--
"Serenity is a very personal work with political resonance and a
heartfelt message about the human condition and stuff blowing up."
-- Joss Whedon on his new film

 

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mcv wrote:

>You need both, but if you get only one, get Characters.
>
>
>
Thanks for the advice---it's much appreciated. So the Characters
rulebook is somewhat like the Player's Guide in D&D, I take it, or am I
mistaken?

> Not very much, i'm afraid. Martial Arts is a very rules heavy book,
>
>and although a lot of those ideas have survived into the 4th edition,
>there will have to be completely revamped.
>
>
>

Pity. I had envisioned creating a couple of special martial arts for a
fantasy campaign, something royal guards or elite soldiers would
master. How different is the combat system from Third Edition rules?
Perhaps I could cobble something together myself....

--

The majestic equality of the law forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France


Comic book klatch: http://ibntumart.blogspot.com

 

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In article <42f89fae$0$11066$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>In rec.games.frp.gurps Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
>
>> Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
>> Edition?
>
>Not very much, i'm afraid. Martial Arts is a very rules heavy book,
>and although a lot of those ideas have survived into the 4th edition,
>there will have to be completely revamped.

On the plus side, much of the martial arts fanciness has been
integrated into the core system in the form of more general features.

"Harmony with the Tao" is now "Wild Talent", you can buy levels of
"Extra Attack" for extra attacks, there are core options to trade
attack skill for giving penalties to defense (Deceptive Attack) or
getting multiple attacks (Rapid Attack), etc.

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs

 

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Bent C Dalager wrote:

>On the plus side, much of the martial arts fanciness has been
>integrated into the core system in the form of more general features.
>
>"Harmony with the Tao" is now "Wild Talent", you can buy levels of
>"Extra Attack" for extra attacks, there are core options to trade
>attack skill for giving penalties to defense (Deceptive Attack) or
>getting multiple attacks (Rapid Attack), etc.
>
>
>

Ah, so then a lot of what I want to do may already be in the combat
system... I just have to explore it and figure out where it is. Does
the new combat system have any analog to the combinations optional rule
in the Martial Arts supplement?

--

The majestic equality of the law forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France


Comic book klatch: http://ibntumart.blogspot.com

 

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<I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused

about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
and if so, which one? >

I think you really should get both. I don't think everyone in a group
needs a copy of campaigns, but it's got the combat rules in it, which
is necessary for most games.


<Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
Edition? >

I don't think it's all that extra incompatible. In 4th edition, anyone
can take an extra blow per round, but they take a harsh penalty to
skill for doing so. Train By Master now reduces that penalty. I
believe it's still a prereq for cinemative martial arts skills. I do
think you could still use styles from Martial Arts, you just lose some
of the 3+ attacks per round chambara dodging stuff.

 

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In article <ddb16f$mom$1@news.Stanford.EDU>,
Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
>
>Ah, so then a lot of what I want to do may already be in the combat
>system... I just have to explore it and figure out where it is. Does
>the new combat system have any analog to the combinations optional rule
>in the Martial Arts supplement?

I don't know what that is so I can't tell.

The basic martial arts traits in 4e would be the "Extra Attack"
advantage, the "Trained By Master"/"Weaponmaster" advantages together
with the various skills/advantages that have them as prerequisites
(Invisibility Art, Zen Archery, etc.) and the new standard attack
options (Rapid Attack, Deceptive Attack, Dual-Weapon Attack, Extra
Effort). Then there's always the fencing weapon skills (Smallsword,
Rapier and ... one more ...), Judo and Karate, and, of course,
techniques (previously known as maneuvers).

And there's "Innate Attack" and "Striker" for the more over the top
martial arts campaigns

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs

 

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Bent C Dalager wrote:

>In article <ddb16f$mom$1@news.Stanford.EDU>,
>Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
>
>
>>Ah, so then a lot of what I want to do may already be in the combat
>>system... I just have to explore it and figure out where it is. Does
>>the new combat system have any analog to the combinations optional rule
>>in the Martial Arts supplement?
>>
>>
>
>I don't know what that is so I can't tell.
>
>The basic martial arts traits in 4e would be the "Extra Attack"
>advantage, the "Trained By Master"/"Weaponmaster" advantages together
>with the various skills/advantages that have them as prerequisites
>(Invisibility Art, Zen Archery, etc.) and the new standard attack
>options (Rapid Attack, Deceptive Attack, Dual-Weapon Attack, Extra
>Effort). Then there's always the fencing weapon skills (Smallsword,
>Rapier and ... one more ...), Judo and Karate, and, of course,
>techniques (previously known as maneuvers).
>
>And there's "Innate Attack" and "Striker" for the more over the top
>martial arts campaigns
>
>Cheers
> Bent D
>
>
Techniques are probably what I'm looking for. The combinations rule let
a PC buy a combo of two or three maneuvers, which could be used in the
same combat round as one attack (though rolls would be necessary for
each of the maneuvers). So a PC could buy the ability to do a
parry/headbutt or armlock/throw, for instance, if he or she wanted to
sink a couple of character points into the ability.

Thanks for your help. I get the feeling I can suss out how to do what I
want once I get the Fourth Edition Basic Set now.

--


The majestic equality of the law forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France


Comic book klatch: http://ibntumart.blogspot.com

 

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In rec.games.frp.gurps Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
> mcv wrote:
>
>>You need both, but if you get only one, get Characters.
>>
> Thanks for the advice---it's much appreciated. So the Characters
> rulebook is somewhat like the Player's Guide in D&D, I take it, or am I
> mistaken?

Somewhat, yes, although there is also stuff in Campaigns that some players
may be interested in, like advanced and more detailed combat rules.

>> Not very much, i'm afraid. Martial Arts is a very rules heavy book,
>>
>>and although a lot of those ideas have survived into the 4th edition,
>>there will have to be completely revamped.
>
> Pity. I had envisioned creating a couple of special martial arts for a
> fantasy campaign, something royal guards or elite soldiers would
> master. How different is the combat system from Third Edition rules?
> Perhaps I could cobble something together myself....

You probably can. There is really a lot of stuff in the basic set,
including a lot of the abilities and skills from Martial Arts
(sometimes in simpler or more generic form) so building your own
martial art is probably still possible. But not everything is in
there, and neither are the style templates.


mcv.
--
"Serenity is a very personal work with political resonance and a
heartfelt message about the human condition and stuff blowing up."
-- Joss Whedon on his new film

 

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In article <ddcl6e$80k$1@news.Stanford.EDU>,
Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email> wrote:
>
>Techniques are probably what I'm looking for. The combinations rule let
>a PC buy a combo of two or three maneuvers, which could be used in the
>same combat round as one attack (though rolls would be necessary for
>each of the maneuvers). So a PC could buy the ability to do a
>parry/headbutt or armlock/throw, for instance, if he or she wanted to
>sink a couple of character points into the ability.

This sounds like something that can be simulated using Rapid Attack or
Dual-Weapon Attack, or an Extra Attack with availability limitations.

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs

 

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On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:15:11 -0700, Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
> about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
> Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
> and if so, which one?

Characters has all the chargen stuff, and the basic set's gear lists,
and so on. It also has a short chapter on combat, but that's very
basic. Campaigns has extended combat rules (lots and lots of them),
healing, general skill use, a discussion of animals, vehicles, and so
on, how to run a game, and etc.

You'd want both to GM, but players only need the first book unless
they're really into combat.

> Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
> Edition?

Problably not very. You'd need to convert the various maneuvers
(techniques, these days), styles and so on and I suspect it'd be a lto
of work. A 4th ed version is in the pipeline, though AFAIK there's no
release date for it yet, so it's probably not going going to appear
until next year.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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> I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
> about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the Characters
> and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one, and if so,
> which one?

You really sould get both for the full experience. Characters are almost
_exclusively_ about that - all the stuff on running the game - like, the
rules - are in Campigns.

> Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
> Edition?

Well, you can use maneuvers and the style rules almost as read (as I'm
currently doing). The Chambara rules are out the window, though - 4e does
things differently, but has options for the cimatics in the core system (of
course, you _can_ use the Cambara ruels if you really want to, but ...)

That said, the mutterings from the writers of MA 3e (for G4e) indicate that
the 3e style rules will be different from 1st and 2nd ed. ones ... when MA
3e comes that is.

 

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On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:15:11 -0700, Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email>
wrote:

>I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
>about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
>Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
>and if so, which one?

To be specific, if you don't have the Campaigns book, you don't have
the complete combat system, but you have enough to work with. It
would probably be sufficient for just one player to bring it, though

>
>Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
>Edition?
>

Pretty close.

 

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David Johnston wrote:

> To be specific, if you don't have the Campaigns book, you don't have
> the complete combat system, but you have enough to work with. It
> would probably be sufficient for just one player to bring it, though

I would Dissage Character is a complete combat system, a rules light
one. whit it is not is a Detailed combat system. Camain has the
Extention that make it detialed 8)

 

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David Johnston wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:15:11 -0700, Ibn Tumart <ibntumart@no.email>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I've been toying with getting into GURPS again, but I'm a bit confused
>>about what exactly I need for the Fourth Edition. Are both the
>>Characters and Campaigns books necessary? Or do I just need the one,
>>and if so, which one?
>
>
> To be specific, if you don't have the Campaigns book, you don't have
> the complete combat system, but you have enough to work with. It
> would probably be sufficient for just one player to bring it, though
>
>
>>Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
>>Edition?
>>
>
>
> Pretty close.
>

I was wondering about this also. I've been thinking about starting a
Martial Arts campaign, but my book (2nd ed) seems not to fit very well
w/ fouth edition, particularly in things like maneuver pricing. Anyone
have any tips for converting effectively to 4ed Martial Arts?

 

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>>>Also, just how compatible would GURPS Martial Arts be with the Fourth
>>>Edition?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Pretty close.
>
> I was wondering about this also. I've been thinking about starting a
> Martial Arts campaign, but my book (2nd ed) seems not to fit very well w/
> fouth edition, particularly in things like maneuver pricing. Anyone have
> any tips for converting effectively to 4ed Martial Arts?

Use the 4th ed technique pricing sceme - the maneuvers themselves work fine
(at least IMC) until we hopefully get MA 3e (for G4e) in 2006 sometime.