WinXP ($@#$)

I'm dual booting with Win98 and WinXP. Win98 is very fast and stable, while WinXP likes to crash.

I have install WinXP a half dozen times. As soon as I load the video drivers it becomes unstable. I been installing the video drivers, 4-1 and directX in different orders.

I will be watching a music video on line, then it will freeze, anywhere from 2sec to 5min. Also, I lost my sound, but it didn't freeze, but I had to reboot, I even lost my internet conection and had to boot again. It's not just with videos, it will freeze doing nothing.

My BIOS is at default, after three weeks I am to lazy to take out my PCI card to load WinXP, or to take them out and move them now. Also, don't feel I should have to tweak the OS.

If anyone has an idea what is going on, I'd be glad to hear it. Maybe this week end I'll take my PCI cards out.

UT frager
XP1800
Abit KR7A 133R
Leadtek Gf4 4400
Maya 7.1 gold
2-256 2400 Corsair
WD 1200jb
3 Com
psu 460
Water cooled and 7 case fans


Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
39 answers Last reply
More about winxp
  1. Aside from thats windows for ya, make sure you arent using the same drivers for 98 and XP.
  2. I actually install the Via 4-in-1 drivers twice: right after installation and last after all the drivers are installed. Then again, I'm currently in Windows 2000.

    Perhaps this thread can help, if you haven't read it before:
    <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/software/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=18044#18044" target="_new">"Toey's awesome Windows installation methodology"</A> (actually named "Windows XP Randomly Resetting Everywhere!")

    Addressing your laziness, stop it already. :lol: Solve your problem and try reseating those PCI cards or moving them.

    That's all for now, I s'pose. Good luck!

    Bryan

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  3. Thanks Bryan. Yeah, I installed the 4-1 a couple times, also. One time it froze while loaded them, and then I coulded get back into the OS, because of a missing file. I tried safe mode, and a repair, that's all I could think of and it didn't work.

    I check those sight out, but they seem to be for more of restarts. I don't want to do to much reading,think I rather wait for a patch. Hehe
    I become lazy after 3 weeks of losing sleep, and being no farther ahead. I'm greatful for Toey's help in getting Images of my system, because at least my Win98 kicks butt, and I can always return to that state. I'd like to do the same with WinXP.

    I think your right I'm going to have to take my PCI cards out and start from scratch.




    Thanks. Luck is what I am hoping for.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  4. Here's my latest steps for my Windows 2000 install w/SP2 slipstreamed already, if it'll help - of course pertaining to my specific setup:

    Install Windows 2000 Pro SP2 (25 minutes duration)
    Optimize settings (swap file, visual settings, some services, etc.)
    Via 4-in-1 v4.38
    Windows Update site downloads
    Xerox DocuPrint M760 v3.57 drivers
    Aureal Vortex 2 sound card drivers
    ATI Radeon 32MB SDR drivers 5.13.01.6071
    Via 4-in-1 v4.38 drivers (again)
    PCI Latency Patch 0.19

    If you want to see how my system looks like, go to that page below. As for the PCI slots, my sound card is in PCI 2, and my NIC is in PCI 5.

    Bryan

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  5. I reinstall WinXP, and installed Direct 8.1 and the 28.30 driver from Leadtek. Came on the Internet and all was doing well for about 10 min., then it restarted. Guess I'll be checking out your first replay after all.

    Well I guess that all for now, my 10 minutes is almost up. Lol
    Thanks for your help.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  6. Hi, Jeff ...

    I'm reading over your posts, and it seems that your problems stem from two areas ... multimedia, and the NIC card.

    The first thing I'd like to ask ... why are you installing DirectX 8.1 in WinXP? This isn't Win2K; WinXP <i>comes</i>with 8.1.

    Are you installing the latest drivers for the <A HREF="http://www.audiotrak.net/eng/index.html" target="_new">MAYA</A> card from the website that were released at the end of February? These are doing the job for me.

    Have you tried an older set of VIA 4in1 drivers, like the 4.37a's? I've had good luck with these, in combination with the 4.20a AGP driver, and the nVidia 28.32 reference drivers. (You can still get these drivers <A HREF="http://www.guru3d.com/files/" target="_new">at this site</A>.) With your Iiyama, if I'm correct, the monitor RAMDAC will be correctly identified with that driver set, and you shouldn't need the refresh rate fix. I haven't needed it with my GF4 4400 card and the Iiyama.

    There's a new version of the VIA drivers out if you want to give them a shot, the <A HREF="http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2" target="_new">4.40a(P3)'s</A>.

    I'm looking back over your email, too. How about trying the scenario with only four partitions on the disk (too many can cause problems with Window, as it can slow up the boot due to the amount of time it takes to enumerate and mount each partition). And perhaps you should try it with WinXP as the only OS on the disk. You've got an image of Win98 ... you can put it back on the system partition, if necessary.

    I suspect, due to the kind of problems you are describing, that you are experiencing a conflict between the video card and the NIC card. How long does it take for the system to freeze after a new installation if you try it without the NIC card in the computer? And are you using the latest drivers for the NIC card after it is installed?

    You mentioned that your BIOS settings are at default. Well, that's not always the best solution. Is ACPI enabled, with all APM-related features <i>disabled</i>? Have you disabled the devices you won't be using, such as the serial (COM) ports? I noticed that you mentioned in one email that your NIC card and the USB Host controllers were sharing an IRQ, and moving the card allowed the NIC to be assigned an IRQ that was different, but not shared. That makes me wonder if the HAL in WinXP is getting installed as APM on your system, although that's kind of a long shot.

    What kind of memory timings settings do you currently have displayed in the BIOS? And do you still have the AGP port set at 256, with 4X enabled?

    How's your processor temperatures?

    Toey

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
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  7. Hi Toey

    >I'm reading over your posts, and it seems that your problems stem from two areas ... multimedia, and the NIC card.

    The first thing I'd like to ask ... why are you installing DirectX 8.1 in WinXP? This isn't Win2K; WinXP comeswith 8.1.<

    I install DirectX 8.1 simple for one reason, I'm grabbing at straws and I wasn't sure if it came with 8.1.

    >Are you installing the latest drivers for the MAYA card from the website that were released at the end of February? These are doing the job for me.<

    Since I just did a clean install with no PCI cards, at the moment I can't even get the drivers to load. The Maya seems to load better for me when I install Windows with the card in. I tried letting Windows install them and also add new hardware and so far no dice, and I do have a copy of the latest drivers in one of my partitions, I'll try them again when I get my sound working.

    >Have you tried an older set of VIA 4in1 drivers, like the 4.37a's? I've had good luck with these, in combination with the 4.20a AGP driver, and the nVidia 28.32 reference drivers. (You can still get these drivers at this site.) With your Iiyama, if I'm correct, the monitor RAMDAC will be correctly identified with that driver set, and you shouldn't need the refresh rate fix. I haven't needed it with my GF4 4400 card and the Iiyama.<

    No, I haven't tried the older 4-1, but am willing to try anything at thing to get WinXP stable. I loaded the 28.32, but they were from Leaktek.

    >There's a new version of the VIA drivers out if you want to give them a shot, the 4.40a(P3)'s.<

    I tried those, but maybe with the order I installed my drivers, or having ones that weren't stably didn't help.

    >I'm looking back over your email, too. How about trying the scenario with only four partitions on the disk (too many can cause problems with Window, as it can slow up the boot due to the amount of time it takes to enumerate and mount each partition). And perhaps you should try it with WinXP as the only OS on the disk. You've got an image of Win98 ... you can put it back on the system partition, if necessary.<

    Win98 doesn't have a problem with 6 partitions, in fact has been doing very well. I'm getting FPS as high as 140 with UT, at default, so I'm as happy as a pig in (peep). If WinXP can't out perform Win98 in games, then I'm going to favor Win98, and limit the I.E. I open. I'd like to compare the two OS for myself, and at least use each OS for a certain purpose. Even when I had WinXP running have way decent, it froze during MOA. So I'm under the impression that WinXP is going to fight me the hole way. Basically I been pulling my hair out, since I got WinXP, and it's just nice being able to use my computer with Win98 without it crashing. I partition my drive so many times now, I'm surprise I haven't blown anything up, it is possible, I know first hand. Lol... I will consider that possibility when everything els has failed. OK, I lied, more like put WinXP on my other system.

    >I suspect, due to the kind of problems you are describing, that you are experiencing a conflict between the video card and the NIC card. How long does it take for the system to freeze after a new installation if you try it without the NIC card in the computer? And are you using the latest drivers for the NIC card after it is installed?<

    Windows is supposed to support my NIC card and I have look before for an updated driver, but I had no luck finding it. I could look a little harder. I haven't tested to see how long it to take to freeze without the NIC card in, because I was thinking it was the video card. I do have a couple other NIC cards I could try and maybe have better luck finding drivers.


    >You mentioned that your BIOS settings are at default. Well, that's not always the best solution. Is ACPI enabled,<

    I see APIC it's enable. The ACPI is a suspend type, S1(POS), but no enable setting.

    >with all APM-related features disabled?>

    I'm not sure what your talking about, I don't see them.


    <Have you disabled the devices you won't be using, such as the serial (COM) ports?>

    I haven't shut anything off, though I will be hooking up a camera.

    >I noticed that you mentioned in one email that your NIC card and the USB Host controllers were sharing an IRQ, and moving the card allowed the NIC to be assigned an IRQ that was different, but not shared. That makes me wonder if the HAL in WinXP is getting installed as APM on your system, although that's kind of a long shot.<

    I have no idea, but the e-mail your talking about I believe was for Win98, WinXP seems to have IRQ all the way up to 21 and only the Universal Host is sharing with it's self.

    >What kind of memory timings settings do you currently have displayed in the BIOS?<

    If your talking about the ones I know of, there all on there lowest setting.

    >And do you still have the AGP port set at 256, with 4X enabled?<

    Nope 128 and 2X, that easy enough to change,

    >How's your processor temperatures?<

    My gauge shows 30c, but I think it's more like 35c-40c.


    I even have a weird problem with my Itelli mouse, the arrow froze, but I still was able to move the mouse somewhat, thought I couldn't tell where it was and my key board still work, so I updated the mouse. It seem at the momment, there's no telling when WinXP will crash, I just know it will.

    Thanks for your tips Toey, I'm going to get started on it.








    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  8. Thanks for your help guys, but there doesn't seem to be any hope for me and WinXP, at the moment. It has been nothing but a pain in the A$$, where Win98 is so simple. Simple I tell, WinXP has taking all the fun away since I got it. It's time for me to go back home to Win98. Maybe I'll try Win2000 for a dual boot, I have that sitting around here somewhere.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  9. Dang, that's so lame jiff. :frown:

    I'd say try Windows 2000 before going back to Windows 98. The memory management is the only reason I wouldn't want Win98 back...

    Bryan

    <font color=red><Short Signature></font color=red>
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    My personal website, chock full of tips and other computer stuff. No ads, banners, or catches. It's currently based on Windows XP, but Windows 2000 stuff to come.
    <b><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/staff/bryan_villarin.html" target="_new"><font color=green>Villarin's Velocity Virus Machine</font color=green></A></b> - How's that???
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  10. I never left Win98, I like it for gaming. I'm sure I could get WinXP to run better, but I have to ask myself if it's worth it, knowing it won't be better for gaming and down the road I'll load a program and the crap starts all over.

    I wanted the memory management for searching the Internet, while listening to the radio or videos, and leave Win98 strictly for gaming, with less stuff on it. I'm loading Win2000 now, where WinXP use to be. Lol....

    Hope this will be less hair pulling.

    Thanks for your concern. Jeff


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  11. Hey, have you ever heard of <A HREF="http://www.litepc.com/" target="_new">LitePC</A>? It was formerly 98Lite.com, but don't go there anymore...

    Anyways, I'm talking about this little thing <A HREF="http://www.litepc.com/98lite.html" target="_new">here</A>.

    Bryan

    <font color=red><Signature></font color=red>
    <b><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A></b>
    My personal website, chock full of tips and other computer stuff. No ads, banners, or catches. It's currently based on Windows XP, but Windows 2000 stuff to come.
    <b><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/staff/bryan_villarin.html" target="_new"><font color=green>Villarin's Velocity Virus Machine</font color=green></A></b> - How's that???
    <font color=red></ Signature></font color=red>
  12. That looks interesting, never heard of it, I'll have to check it out. Thanks


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  13. No problem. :smile:

    Bryan
  14. I had a little trouble install my 3Com driver into Win2000, I wasn't paying attention and saved it on my C: partition, where Win98 is. I got it working, but have an error that comes up, it still goes on the Internet though, but it froze. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I'm starting to think I'm not going to have the best of both worlds with a dual boot. Can you or anybody els confirm that I should forget about dual booing. I'm using my Image to fix C:, since I messed it up, and will try Win2000 one more time before I give up on dual booting.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  15. ""or anybody els confirm that I should forget about dual booing""

    I tried to "use" XP Pro for business (tried some games on it as well) things, but after getting frustrated "few" times, got my 2k server back in place, wheewhee, runs like a Win2k now, hehe. Yeah, I am using ME (fun) on C: and 2k (business) on D: and everything else on E:, F:, G:, blah blah blah Z: drives (just in case, GXPs you know ;)


    ..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
  16. If 98 works and XP doesn't it's gotta be your hardware.

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  17. I'm jealous, I tried Dual booting with Win2000 real quick, slapped some drivers on, and it was going real smooth, until it froze. That put an end to my dual booting, at least on this system. I think Zlash is right about my hardware, plus I'm not to good with NT OS, and I'm done learning on this sytem.
    So, I put all my fun on C: some on E: and F: not sure what to do with D: G: and H: now.
    I give WinXP another shot on my other system, or Win2000, or a dual boot two OS. At least now the frustration is over on my main system.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  18. heh, so you say, if Win9x and Win2k works just fine and XPx is not, than I have "bad" hardware; yo, there is something wrong with your way of making conclusions, cos XPx was suppose to have "better" hardware "support", or am I wrong?

    ..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
  19. No, just Win98 is working for me. I couldn't get WinXP to dual boot, and when I tried Win2000 real quick it wasn't stable either. That's my conclusion for my circumstances, where ever the problem may lie.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  20. So, someone screws us up by stating so? I guess...

    ..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
  21. Thanks, you been very helpful


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  22. I install WinXP on my older computer, with a 133A chip, 256x133 SDRAM, 1200 133 TB, Live and a gf2 Ultra card. I partition my 20Gb IBM in 3 and left my PCI cards in and WinXP loaded all the drivers. This is more like it, no work involved:) It even played UT pretty darn smooth, not as fast as Win98, but I haven't done any tweaking yet, which I'm afraid to screw it up, it seems very stably. Hack, I'm listening to a music video, have a few I.E. open, even downloaded (cough)AOL(cough) and installed it, didn't even have to reboot, + install UT and played it, not bad. Now if WinXP would recognize the hardware on my other system and be like this, I might drop Win98 even for games, time will tell.





    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  23. I have a dual boot xp/me with a geforce2 ultra, sb live value, and an asus a7v133a.

    The 4n1's suck my white @$$. Twice.

    As soon as I stopped loading them, every single one of my Xp lockups and Ide corruption went away.

    Now, on the winme side, I load the 4n1's and the miniport drivers. No problems there, other than the usual msdos slowdowns/crashes that go with windows in the first place.
  24. Did you upgrade the video card as well, and if so did that give you problems, or did just the 4-1 give you problems?


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  25. Hey Ed,
    What order do you install things in your Windows XP setup? I'm going to try installing mine your way to see how it'll perform, especially since we both have the same motherboard.

    Thanks!
    Bryan

    _________________________________________________
    <font color=red><b>Site Update</b></font color=red>
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  26. I never mentioned 2000 in my statement...

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  27. O I hate it when I respond and someone wasn't even talking to me. Sorry.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  28. ALL My thoughts on your problem WHAT I WOULD LOOK AT:

    If you have any card in your first pci slot (closest to your AGP Slot) take it out! or move it. Alot of times the dord share the IRQ or mem adress with the agp slot. Don't ask! i have seen it. Useally it's a modem or NIc in that slot couseing the truoble.

    Check for an Updated BIOS for your board
    current bios date for that board on abit website 2002/06/07

    Try the new Direct X 8.1b Ver.
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/DirectX/Update/8.1b/NT5/EN-US/DX81NTeng.exe

    Check your Video Drivers
    by trying the offical release not beta or if useing offical driver try the betas available.

    Make sure your not having a heat problem!
    cpu temp should be cooler than 40C
    If your mother board has a heatsink on the chipset check it for themal compound and that it has a fan. (i know, i know... your useing water cooling ) but i would run it for a while and then turn it off, unplug it (i do it while running but if you do it you'll get the Sh**t shocked out of ya, i have never been shocked but i am one insane MOFO) ground my self and start tuching chipsets/heatsinks if you touch one and warm is ok but if it sometihng a 3 year old would touch and say "ouch thats hot" cool tht chip better!

    check you power supply voltage!
    you could have it over loaded or it's could be giving shitty voltage. make sure your voltage is contantly chageing in the bios (thats not good but the bios readings are usally off anyway). check it with a Digital Voltage Meter ... specialy if it is more that 5% of spec of -5,+5,-12,+12

    (At this point start opening and drinking beers your gonna need'EM ;-) the next parts an complete a**.)

    take every thing out of your pci slots (make sure uninstall the driver in control panel first) then re-install one at a time to see if it's a card

    Format/Fdisk/reinstall re load XP

    after that I would give up! and chalk it all to bill gates and microsoft!




    :cool: <font color=blue>The Hardware Junkie</font color=blue> :cool:
  29. Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm sorry I should have updated this post. I tried most of them, except the new Direct X 8.1b Ver. and checking it with a Digital Voltage Meter. I don't know what it would have taking to get it to work, but I have gave up. Windows98 works perfect on this computer, which is my main gamer, and I have WinXP dual booting on another computer, that was no problem at all. I also bought a 4-port switch. It was either that or get another 19 in monitor, which I might anyway. It kind of work out for the best this way, because I don't care to leave the water cooled computer on, while I don't care about leaving the other one on. Thanks again for your help.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  30. Bt: Under xp, it doesn't matter for me. I replied to your PM. I only use the Creative drivers for my sb live value, and the detonators. I'm using the 28.90's right now. I tweak the H3ll out of it with GTU 3.12 (beta?). Sidebanding, Fastwrites, Burst 256, 4x agp, o/c'd to 260/380 (not very much, but there's no point with my 17" monitor; I've had it a heck of a lot higher).

    Jiff: With this mainboard, I've only had Geforce 2's. I had a GTS, then a GTS pro, now the Ultra. Gave my GTS and Pro to my two brother-in-laws; they were happy =). When I *first* got it, I tried using my old Millenium2 and Voodoo2. The Millenium2 worked fine, but the Voodoo2 was cr@p; the bios and drivers didn't like each other, because when I accessed the 'advanced' options in the display config to tweak the V2, it locked up cold every single time no matter what I did. I can remember one single time I got Icewind Dale to use the V2, but that was totally stock settings (i.e. I never even looked at the V2 display settings in the ctl panel).

    I can't say I have any problems (out of the normal; no Bsod's, anyways) with my xp or me sides. Tomb raider 2 is just as bitchin' as Medal of Honor and Tie Fighter 95. I also take care of a 8kha that is every bit as stable as this machine under winme.

    I'm a happy Amd/Via/Nvidia user. The only thing I cuss right now is having no time to play all the games I have...
  31. i had this problem you have and i solved it. so i gave you some advises. it's up to you to buy it. 1) Don't used the last two PCI slots of the board. keep clear of the last two PCI slots. slots that are farest away from your AGP slots. 2) used only NTFS format don't used FAT. 3) DO NOT load VIA driver. 4) upgrade and update everything on XP from microsoft including recommended and driver updates. 5) load you nvidia driver last and with the latest of course. 6) do not used more that two USB 1.1 on board. get a usb 2.0 for more than 2 usb devices. pls take note 2) and 4)
  32. Quote:
    it's up to you to buy it

    Somehow I doubt that he's going to buy it.

    You may think that I'm trying to harass you, but that really isn't the case.

    Riddle me this:

    How does leaving the last two PCI slots open help solve a possible conflict with a video card? What's wrong with using FAT32, and how can charging the file system format to NTFS help the system achieve stability? Finally ... many people have four USB 1.1 ports with two Host Controllers and root hubs on a system. The most common problems that can occur in this situation is if the IRQ addresses are in conflict when a USB device's drivers are loaded, or if the total power requirements exceed what can be supported by an individual hub, such as plugging in two high-powered USB devices ... which would result in a BSOD at the boot with a VIA mainboard, in my experience.

    By the way ... IMHO, loading driver updates from Microsoft from your hardware devices is not the smartest way to update a system. Driver signing is not a rock-solid guarantee of a stable, functional driver, or that it will even be the <i>best</i> driver for a device. It's a much better idea to get the drivers for your hardware from the manufacturer ... or in the case of a Geforce card video card built on the reference design, from nVidia.

    Toejam31

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
    <font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
    __________________________________________________________

    <font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
  33. You are right about the PCI cards and yes, you should be able to install the drivers first if you know where to find them on the CD's. That is Microsoft's solution. Sounds like a pain and it is. Win 2K is a bit better for hardware issues but XP can work. It took me over three weeks to get my version to work right. Not only did I have driver issues but had trouble getting my ACPI to work.

    en Xristos
  34. do you have intel chipset board. compared it with via chipset you come across, which one gave you the most problems from your years of experience?
  35. Quote:
    "do you have intel chipset board"

    I've had many mainboards with Intel chipsets. And yes, I have one right now in one of my computers.

    Quote:
    which one gave you the most problems from your years of experience?

    I'd like to give you a simple answer, and just say one or the other, but I can't. The question is limited in scope under those terms. There are a lot of factors that determines the stability or performance of a mainboard, with the chipset being only one of them.

    I've had good and bad results with boards that had chipsets from Intel <i>and</i> VIA. For example:

    The 810 chipset from Intel was a piss-poor performer, IMHO. I ran across several systems with the 815e that had difficulties shutting down without spending too darn much time adjusting the IRQ Holder for PCI Steering. Then there was the 820 chipset fiasco with the Memory Translator Hub that supposedly allowed RDRAM boards to use SDRAM, which has been discontinued, thank the good Lord. That chipset didn't even have decent support for RDRAM!

    In comparison, of course, was the KX/KT133x series from VIA with the infamous VT82C686A and 686A/686B Southbridges, which were a mess, to put it nicely, especially when mated with SoundBlaster cards. And many of these boards, for all intents and purposes, were basically incompatible with early, power-hungry GeForce video cards due to electrical problems with the rails feeding the AGP port.

    **Note: I'll just leave the VIA 4in1 drivers out of the discussion. That's another subject, and still a bone of contention. But similar points could be made of some of the Intel chipset driver releases, such as when the Application Accelerator was first offered to consumers.

    Since these were the first kind of boards to support an AMD processor, which was a cheaper and often faster alternative than a processor from Intel, many, many boards with these chipsets were sold, to the detriment of the users who got saddled with them. It wasn't pretty.

    Since then, the mainboards I sell and install the most often come with the 850 chipset from Intel, and the KT266A from VIA. Interestingly enough, I now get better results with the VIA boards than the ones from Intel. And this time, it's not so much a chipset issue as problems with the BIOS, ACPI, and Win2K/WinXP. I keep running across Intel mainboards with a BIOS that causes instability issues with IRQ sharing when a GeForce4 is installed and the Windows NT drivers are loaded. The VIA KT266A boards, on the other hand, don't seem to have the same kind of problems, and run just fine with GF4 cards.

    The last chipset I saw on a mainboard that was virtually trouble-free was the 440BX from Intel, both the first and second generation. I know techs in my area who were so traumatized from troubleshooting systems with newer mainboards and chipsets from both Intel and VIA that this is <i>still</i> their preference when building a new system. I don't think it's a good idea ... but I can understand their reluctance to move forward with the times.

    In this day and age, it's a gamble when ordering a board from any of the top-tier manufacturers, regardless of the chipset. You can no longer just say, VIA is bad, and Intel is good. Or that Intel sucks, and VIA is great. Each individual board has to be taken on its own merits.

    For instance, I deal primarily with Giga-Byte mainboards. Early versions of the GA-7VRXP board with the KT333 chipset have been causing some problems, both with GF4 compatibility, and with the onboard Promise RAID controller.

    The GA-8ITXE board I installed for my Pentium 4 system has similar problems with a GF4 card. With this type of video card installed, even with the latest drivers, IRQ sharing, while appearing to be enabled, really isn't functional, and it's impossible to run the system without multiple conflicts between USB devices, and any kind of sound card or NIC card ... especially with WinXP and prefetching enabled. And this <i>is</i> with the latest BIOS. However, an older video card like a GeForce2 or GF3 works very well. It's not a nVidia driver issue ... it's a BIOS incompatibility with a GF4 card ... which hopefully, might be addressed in the near future, or before I die of old age, whichever comes first.

    The only real workaround may be loading the operating system with the older APM power management and a Standard HAL, and controlling/assigning the IRQ addresses manually within the BIOS instead of from Windows.

    By contrast, the GA-7VTXH+ board with the KT266A chipset may very well be the most stable board I have used in many years ... it's only weakness being that it refuses to run two USB devices per hub if this exceeds 500mA. Intel boards tend to be more forgiving of running a high-powered and a low-powered device off one passive hub. This is something that is very minor, IMO, considering how easily someone can obtain a powered USB hub.

    Off the top-of-my-head, I'd venture a guess and say that I've had more problems with VIA boards in the past. But I've also spent more than a few hours wrestling with Intel boards that were equally instable, like some of the early D850 boards, all of which seemed to come with a lousy solder wash, which caused capacitors to just drop off at the slightest touch!

    Also ... your question is just about Intel and VIA. Because of this, we won't even get into boards with a chipset like the ALiMAGIK1 C1. Early Iwill XP333 mainboards with this chipset were (and are) so unstable it was mind-boggling, but again ... it was primarily BIOS and electrical issues, and not entirely due to the chipset.

    It's not really which chipset is better or worse, not anymore. It's just trying to avoid buying a lemon, no matter who makes the board, and what chipset it might have. You pays your money; you takes your chances.

    Toejam31

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
    <font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
    __________________________________________________________

    <font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
  36. A nice little reading. Now I don't feel so bad with the problems I been having w my Gf4, Win98, WinXp. Well, WinXP is paired with a Gf2 and hasn't giving me a single problem since, but I don't use it for games. If I could just get Win98 w my Gf4 to give me the same results, or vise verve with WinXP and games. Maybe the new UT2 will work better for me with winXP;) O-well, guess I can't have everything, just nice to know some people realize the crap we go threw with these system, be a Tech, or someone who likes to update all the time. It's not always a simply solution.


    Hey Baby, want to play with my computer?
  37. well from the text i read i believe that you have encountered more problems with VIA than Intel. I guess....

    and what about tech support from Intel and VIA chipset or board maunfacturer. do any infomation come promptly to aid you in your problems you faced. at least the Intel did announced their malfunction Intel 820 chipset.
    so what's you view.

    are you working as a retailer or something
  38. Quote:
    well from the text i read i believe that you have encountered more problems with VIA than Intel. I guess....

    Yes ... but not at the moment. The VIA KT266A and WinXP appears to be a good combination. I haven't installed enough KT333 boards to really have a valid opinion as of yet. But I'm having better results with new VIA-based boards right now than any offering from Intel. The situation could be completely different a year from now. Until the KT266A was released, nearly everything I sold was Intel, because it was bad for my reputation to sell and support AMD systems with older chipsets. It could also force me to do an extraordinary amount of technical support, and if it happened to involve a house call, the "visit" could really screw up my work schedule. It didn't make the customer happy, either, especially if the source of the problem was the hardware. Explaining to someone that a chipset sucked never did go over well. They couldn't scream at VIA, so I got an earful along with my check.

    I don't have a such a high opinion of reference design AMD chipsets, either, for the same reason.

    I'm glad to see VIA turning things around. This means I can sell cheaper, faster systems, and the savings can go directly to my customers. What I'll lose in profit on an individual system I'll make up in the long run by being able to increase the amount of computers I build. And the less technical support I must do, the better I like it.

    I really prefer AMD and Duron processors, so it used to really make me angry that I couldn't find a high performance chipset and board without compatibility and stability issues. I'm very pleased to see that this is beginning to change.

    Quote:
    and what about tech support from Intel and VIA chipset or board maunfacturer. do any infomation come promptly to aid you in your problems you faced. at least the Intel did announced their malfunction Intel 820 chipset.
    so what's you view.

    Getting information out of any company that is shipping, or has shipped malfunctioning hardware is like pulling teeth. No one wants to admit to screwing up, and that's why there are things like class-action lawsuits. Generally, if I encounter an issue, I get a run-around from some technician who has been instructed to avoid talking about the problems at all costs; I'm treated just like everybody else. It's up to me to do my own testing, and to talk to other people who build systems for a living and get their views on a specific component or device. You might be surprised at how many working techs frequent forums, just like this one, as a way to keep an ear to the ground, and pick up early information on a product's reliability. The actual users are often the first to comment on a problem, long before any kind of statement or release from a company reaches a reseller. Such is life and the state of the world.

    Quote:
    are you working as a retailer or something

    Nope, you won't find me at Circuit City! LOL! A couple of partners and I run a small shop. We build customized gaming systems, primarily.

    Toejam31

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
    <font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
    __________________________________________________________

    <font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
  39. it's true it's true
    thank for your fore-coming and open approach
    i've learned some Interesting and Intriguing reality in today tech and human relationship from you.
    its confirmed to me that we have so much inconsistance in technology from time to time in one area, and faced users or customers who want no craps in other area.
    thanks anyway. hope to see you some day personally. by the way i am not a american. nither am i any where in state. are you?
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