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Rewriting the history of shadowrun

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Anonymous
February 17, 2005 2:25:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

I've never been completely satisfied with the future history presented
in the Shadowrun series. for those of you who don't know, shadowrun is
a roleplaying game(and, later, a series of spun-off novels) that takes
place in a dystopian future, where magic (and the accompanying
bogeymen) have returned; people alter themselves with cyberware
(sometimes becoming inhuman) to jack into the 'grid', and
megacorporations have established themselves as sovreign entities and
superpowers.

There are many reasons that the future history presented in those books
bothers me, but the big sticking points for me are:

1) the history concentrates too much on North America and Europe. One
of the bigger events in Future american history involves the resurgence
of the Native American peoples. Other repressed native cultures (such
as Aboriginal Austrailians and central Asians) are virtually ignored.
They go into great detail defining borders for various territories in
North America, but don't even bother with Africa; the one map I've seen
had the whole continent as a big green blob.

2) the UCAS. (that's 'United Canadian and American States'.) Despite
the trouble that both nations get into, I cannot ever imagine the two
ever merging (and not just because of the south, which BTW secceded
again). Their legal and historical differences are just too great. I
could see one invading and annexing the other, but that's not how it
happens as written.

3) Japan. after more than half a century of being taught that war is
never the answer, Japan suddenly become an empire again and starts
invading countries across the pacific rim. 2+ generations don't get
this drilled into their heads in school just to toss it out the window
as soon as seems handy. Also, the Nuyen(the world currency, by the way)
is basically an electronic credit system. Despite their gadget-lust, if
you go shopping in Tokyo today armed only with a credit card, you
aren't going to get much shopping done. ATMs are a rarity; they prefer
human tellers, despite bankers hours that would make American banks
look like sweatshops. The Japanese just love cash. Jumping from that to
a completely electronic currency (that is adopted worldwide, no less)
is just too big a jump to be beleiveable.

4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
used. For a publisher in the US, this was probably a prudent move
(defamation suits and all that) but I can't imagine today's big
businesses just dissapearing.

5) it happens at a very erratic pace. For example, optical computers,
according to the standard story, appeared in 2002. Cyberware comes
online in 2025. And yet, the first deckers don't appear for another 4
years, and only then in response to a nasty virus; they breeze through
the computer security of every system they encounter. 4 years isn't a
long time, but you'd think some wacko would try to plug into the net
before that.


Because of all this, I'm thinking of starting over. I want to rewrite
the whole shebang, but get a similar outcome. I'm not trying to get rid
of the feel of the thing; I just don't want it to be quite so
improbable. But I wonder wether I should bother. If people don't think
it's broke, why should I fix it?

So, should I bother? Do you have any suggestions?

TIA
February 17, 2005 3:38:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

<guyvf@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1108625153.086220.282250@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've never been completely satisfied with the future history presented
> in the Shadowrun series. for those of you who don't know, shadowrun is
> a roleplaying game(and, later, a series of spun-off novels) that takes
> place in a dystopian future, where magic (and the accompanying
> bogeymen) have returned; people alter themselves with cyberware
> (sometimes becoming inhuman) to jack into the 'grid', and
> megacorporations have established themselves as sovreign entities and
> superpowers.
>
> There are many reasons that the future history presented in those books
> bothers me, but the big sticking points for me are:
>
> 1) the history concentrates too much on North America and Europe. One
> of the bigger events in Future american history involves the resurgence
> of the Native American peoples. Other repressed native cultures (such
> as Aboriginal Austrailians and central Asians) are virtually ignored.
> They go into great detail defining borders for various territories in
> North America, but don't even bother with Africa; the one map I've seen
> had the whole continent as a big green blob.

IIRC the other versions of Shadowrun (in other languages/countries) were set
in a city within that country/region and dealt with their history, etc.

> 2) the UCAS. (that's 'United Canadian and American States'.) Despite
> the trouble that both nations get into, I cannot ever imagine the two
> ever merging (and not just because of the south, which BTW secceded
> again). Their legal and historical differences are just too great. I
> could see one invading and annexing the other, but that's not how it
> happens as written.

The two countries merged as a defense/resource requirement. As they are now
(Canada and the US) I couldn't see the two merging... but in the Shadowrun
storyline the US and Canada were decimated in size and resources with the
formation of the NAN. If you really look at it too, the "C" in UCAS (the
Canada part) is pretty much Ontario. Quebec separated and went its own
way... everything else went to the NAN.

> 3) Japan. after more than half a century of being taught that war is
> never the answer, Japan suddenly become an empire again and starts
> invading countries across the pacific rim. 2+ generations don't get
> this drilled into their heads in school just to toss it out the window
> as soon as seems handy. Also, the Nuyen(the world currency, by the way)
> is basically an electronic credit system. Despite their gadget-lust, if
> you go shopping in Tokyo today armed only with a credit card, you
> aren't going to get much shopping done. ATMs are a rarity; they prefer
> human tellers, despite bankers hours that would make American banks
> look like sweatshops. The Japanese just love cash. Jumping from that to
> a completely electronic currency (that is adopted worldwide, no less)
> is just too big a jump to be beleiveable.

Like you said... "gadget-lust". A credstick and credstick reader are
gadgets.

But that aside... "real" money does exist in shadowrun (both as "NuYen"
bills and coins, plus corporate scrip) and so not everything is done via
credstick. The "NuYen" was the currency of choice because what else was
there to go with? The USA was pretty much gone... there were no remaining
superpowers...

> 4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
> up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
> modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
> used. For a publisher in the US, this was probably a prudent move
> (defamation suits and all that) but I can't imagine today's big
> businesses just dissapearing.

The main reason the names aren't used is because they are registered
trademarks... they would have to get legal permission from each company
before being able to use their name

Then on top of that is the problem with the company's reputation in the
game... so that they don't offend the company and risk lawsuits, etc.

But... if you read the sourcebooks (particularly the corporate books) they
give the full history of most of the companies and you'll see that pretty
much almost every one of them has some roots in a company around today.


> 5) it happens at a very erratic pace. For example, optical computers,
> according to the standard story, appeared in 2002. Cyberware comes
> online in 2025. And yet, the first deckers don't appear for another 4
> years, and only then in response to a nasty virus; they breeze through
> the computer security of every system they encounter. 4 years isn't a
> long time, but you'd think some wacko would try to plug into the net
> before that.

"Cyberware" is cybernetic augmentations that modify the
performance/abilities of the human body.
"Cyberspace", also known as "The Matrix", is a representation of computer
networks and operations
"Cyberdecks" are used by deckers to access "Cyberspace"

Because "Cyberware" exists in 2025, doesn't mean that "Cyberspace" did.

Cyberspace is just a representation of programs, computers, networks,
utilities, etc... its the cyberdeck that actually creates the whole "matrix"
experience. So nobody could plug into the net before 2029 because
cyberdecks didn't exist.

The need for something greatly expidites the process of research and
development... look at World War 2: because of the war some great strides
were made in technology and the development of goods and services... things
that probably wouldn't exist were it not for the war creating the need that
pressed scientists and researchers into developing them.

> Because of all this, I'm thinking of starting over. I want to rewrite
> the whole shebang, but get a similar outcome. I'm not trying to get rid
> of the feel of the thing; I just don't want it to be quite so
> improbable. But I wonder wether I should bother. If people don't think
> it's broke, why should I fix it?
>
> So, should I bother? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, Why not?

There are plenty of people out there that wrote their own
setting/timeline/storyline for Shadowrun and pretty much every other RPG out
there.

For suggestions I would say pretty much do whatever you want... I've
rewritten the setting and history myself a few different ways. In one I've
got one "world" where the corporations are even more dominant and prevalent
than they are now... in another I wrote the setting as though the world got
to about 2035 (so some of the modern shadowrun technology existed, but not
the latest and greatest stuff) and then a nuclear war broke out and so the
game is set in a post apocalyptic world.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 10:12:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc (More info?)

In rec.games.frp.misc guyvf@usa.net wrote (and I've eliminated Xposting):

> I've never been completely satisfied with the future history presented
> in the Shadowrun series...

For me, the 2 Big Gripes in Shadowrun are

1) How "similar" in feel and abilities Mages and Shamans are.
I mean -- an arcane-study intellectual gets the SAME spell-
list as a venerated-sprit-as-revelatory-agent guy?

2) The predominance of Korean-War era weaponry. Oh, I know that
there *are* other weapons available, but frankly the stats on
most of the "best" weapons (price/performance) look an AWFUL
lot like something from an awful LONG time ago...


- Steve S.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 1:58:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

<guyvf@usa.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1108625153.086220.282250@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've never been completely satisfied with the future history presented
> in the Shadowrun series. for those of you who don't know, shadowrun is
> a roleplaying game(and, later, a series of spun-off novels) that takes
> place in a dystopian future, where magic (and the accompanying
> bogeymen) have returned; people alter themselves with cyberware
> (sometimes becoming inhuman) to jack into the 'grid', and
> megacorporations have established themselves as sovreign entities and
> superpowers.
>
> There are many reasons that the future history presented in those books
> bothers me, but the big sticking points for me are:
>
> 1) the history concentrates too much on North America and Europe. One
> of the bigger events in Future american history involves the resurgence
> of the Native American peoples. Other repressed native cultures (such
> as Aboriginal Austrailians and central Asians) are virtually ignored.
> They go into great detail defining borders for various territories in
> North America, but don't even bother with Africa; the one map I've seen
> had the whole continent as a big green blob.

Now slow down. Things are comming but it will take time. Australia is
described in Target: Awakened Lands, Europe has just had it's Shadows of
Europe published, and there will come books that deals with other parts of
the world. Thing take time.

There has never been an official world map for Shadowrun, so the map that
you have seen must have been whatever somebody have dreamed up, or just what
was describe so far.

Check out http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Geopolitical_world, that has
most of the official references to the official background of the world.
Some parts of the world is not fleshed out yet, as nobody has yet had the
time to do so.

> 2) the UCAS. (that's 'United Canadian and American States'.) Despite
> the trouble that both nations get into, I cannot ever imagine the two
> ever merging (and not just because of the south, which BTW secceded
> again). Their legal and historical differences are just too great. I
> could see one invading and annexing the other, but that's not how it
> happens as written.

But that part is not as bad as the NAN part. Where does all those
Amerindians come from?

> 4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
> up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
> modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
> used. For a publisher in the US, this was probably a prudent move
> (defamation suits and all that) but I can't imagine today's big
> businesses just dissapearing.

Check out Corporate Download, and Corporate Shadowfiles. Those two books
explain how the companies have started.

And besides you cant just use names like Microsoft and Coca-Cola in a
roleplaying game without either getting into trouble, or having to pay to
use the names.

> 5) it happens at a very erratic pace. For example, optical computers,
> according to the standard story, appeared in 2002. Cyberware comes
> online in 2025. And yet, the first deckers don't appear for another 4
> years, and only then in response to a nasty virus; they breeze through
> the computer security of every system they encounter. 4 years isn't a
> long time, but you'd think some wacko would try to plug into the net
> before that.

Cyberware and decking has nothing to do with each other. In any case you
must remember that the base of the game was written in 1989, at a time where
mobile phones still was the size of a small handbag, computer communication
was restricted to local area networks, and the hight of communication was
via a fax-machine.

With todays background you would have had a whole different game.

> Because of all this, I'm thinking of starting over. I want to rewrite
> the whole shebang, but get a similar outcome. I'm not trying to get rid
> of the feel of the thing; I just don't want it to be quite so
> improbable. But I wonder wether I should bother. If people don't think
> it's broke, why should I fix it?

Personally I don't think it's broken, apart from a few minor detalis. I take
1989 as the starting point, and whatever has happened in the real world
since is not relevant.

> So, should I bother? Do you have any suggestions?

If you can't live with the official background, then do bother, but do it
for your own (and your players) sake, not for mine as I will proberly never
like 100% of what you do in any case.

Lars
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 1:58:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
> <guyvf@usa.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:1108625153.086220.282250@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> But that part is not as bad as the NAN part. Where does all those
> Amerindians come from?


Yeah, this is always a controversial point. On my games, I always make
that a lot of "anglos" chose to join the tribe in order to keep their
homes and stay on the land. Historically, there have been many cases of
tribes adopting "outsiders" and making their own (Dance with Wolves
anyone?). But other than, i do not see where all those native americans
would have come from.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:54:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

The way I was gonna do it was this: the Native peoples receive what
will be called 'the three blessings'; The first is a statistically
absurd number of multiple births starting 2 decades before the
'awakened world'. that way, I can get away with saying there are far
more natives than there are today.

A decade later, a killer bug ravages north america (and a lot of the
rest of the world as well); however, the 'second blessing' causes the
injuns(and anglos with signifigant injun heritage) to be immune. But
they also seem to be carriers, leading to the gubmint locking them all
up (as in the normal storyline). This way, I get to 'kill off' a lot
of the non-native population, making the natives an even greater
population group.

The third blessing, of course, is the great ghost dance and the return
of magic to the world.

But that would require me to either 'retcon' events in the real world
(the 'multiple births' thing would have to start in 1992) or change the
date of the awakening of the world. the 13th cycle of the myan
calandar begins on that date; I think the Incas had something similar
that ended in the 2040s, but I'm still looking.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:09:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:58:07 +0100, Lars Wagner Hansen
<l-hansen@REMOVEpost4.tele.dk> disseminated foul capitalist
propaganda:

[...]
>> 4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
>> up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
>> modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
>> used.
[...]
> And besides you cant just use names like Microsoft and Coca-Cola in a
> roleplaying game without either getting into trouble, or having to pay to
> use the names.

Yes, you can. Trademark and registered trademark is not "complete
ownership of the word, pay through the nose if you want to use
it". You can use trademarked names like Microsoft or Coca-Cola or Colt
or whatever in works of fiction. You can have your protagonist drive
an Audi or BMW and watch CNN and visit a Wal-Mart and so on.

You don't have to pay for this. Even in ligitation-happy America.

> Lars
Leslie
--
Sol-Earthsa Leszek Leslie Karlik dam Posen; leslie @ ideefixe . pl
Drone, Offensive; Special Circumstances, Contact Section.
GH/L/S/O d- s+:- a26 C++ UL+ P L++ E W-() N+++* K w(---) M- PS+(+++) PE
Y+ PGP++ !t---(++) 5++ X- R+++*>$ !tv b++++ DI+ D--- G-- e>+ h- r% y+*
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:16:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

In article <slrnd1cfbj.3lr.leslie@fnord.ideefixe.com.pl>,
Leszek Karlik <leslie@hell.pl> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:58:07 +0100, Lars Wagner Hansen
><l-hansen@REMOVEpost4.tele.dk> disseminated foul capitalist
>propaganda:
>
>[...]
>>> 4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
>>> up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
>>> modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
>>> used.
>[...]
>> And besides you cant just use names like Microsoft and Coca-Cola in a
>> roleplaying game without either getting into trouble, or having to pay to
>> use the names.
>
>Yes, you can. Trademark and registered trademark is not "complete
>ownership of the word, pay through the nose if you want to use
>it". You can use trademarked names like Microsoft or Coca-Cola or Colt
>or whatever in works of fiction. You can have your protagonist drive
>an Audi or BMW and watch CNN and visit a Wal-Mart and so on.
>
>You don't have to pay for this. Even in ligitation-happy America.

However if these companys are displayed acting in a less than
flattering light (rather likely in the case of Shadowrun)
expect legal proceedings.


--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:22:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:36:06 -0700, camberiu <camberiu@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
>> <guyvf@usa.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:1108625153.086220.282250@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> But that part is not as bad as the NAN part. Where does all those
>> Amerindians come from?
>
>
> Yeah, this is always a controversial point. On my games, I always make
>that a lot of "anglos" chose to join the tribe in order to keep their
>homes and stay on the land. Historically, there have been many cases of
>tribes adopting "outsiders" and making their own (Dance with Wolves
>anyone?). But other than, i do not see where all those native americans
>would have come from.

Well, there were the chunks taken over by elves. But really, what do
you mean by "all those native Americans"? In Shadowrun, the NAN areas
are not heavily populated at all. They are largely returning to
wilderness, and D&D style monster-infested wilderness at that. At the
moment there are more Amerinds in North America than there were when
the British and French arrived. Quite enough to provide the levels
of habitation in the NAN that I've seen.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:26:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

My only gripe with Shadowrun is how virtually ever published adventure
module used the same plot line.

Act One: Runners are hired by johnson to get something/someone.
Act Two: Mr Johnson double-crosses runners. Runners discover deep dark
supernatural conspiracy.
Act Three: Runners save the World.
Conclusion: Runners end up with less money than when they started.

Of course, the simple solution is to use your own damned imagination to come
up with scenarios.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:31:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

>
> In some of the recent sourcebooks, I've seen figured for NAN populations
> in the millions. Lemme get back to you with a cite.

Easy Shadowrun answer: The Power of the Awakening boosted their numbers...
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:33:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

"Leszek Karlik" <leslie@hell.pl> wrote in message
news:slrnd1cfbj.3lr.leslie@fnord.ideefixe.com.pl...
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:58:07 +0100, Lars Wagner Hansen
> <l-hansen@REMOVEpost4.tele.dk> disseminated foul capitalist
> propaganda:
>
> [...]
> >> 4) the megacorps. Most of the megacorporations in Shadowrun seem to pop
> >> up out of nowhere; one could not, generally, trace their lineage to
> >> modern companies. corporate names one might recognize are almost never
> >> used.
> [...]
> > And besides you cant just use names like Microsoft and Coca-Cola in a
> > roleplaying game without either getting into trouble, or having to pay
to
> > use the names.
>
> Yes, you can. Trademark and registered trademark is not "complete
> ownership of the word, pay through the nose if you want to use
> it". You can use trademarked names like Microsoft or Coca-Cola or Colt
> or whatever in works of fiction. You can have your protagonist drive
> an Audi or BMW and watch CNN and visit a Wal-Mart and so on.
>
> You don't have to pay for this. Even in ligitation-happy America.
>
> > Lars
> Leslie


But Coke, Microsoft and BMW would still be able to sue FASA, even if they
didn't have a legal leg to stand on. Why would FASA bother risking it,
especially since any lawsuit would put them out of business.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:42:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

I dunno if I want WizKids putting out sourcebooks for every spot on the
planet. Leave something for gamemasters to create for themselves. Remember
the original Germany sourcebook was written by fans in Germany.

Just look at Rifts with all their world-books. I think Palladium would be
better off writing adventure modules than coming out with all the world
books. Develop North American more fully, and don't spread yourself too
thin.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 7:40:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:26:21 -0500, ao668@ncf.ca (Stephen Gilman)
wrote:

>My only gripe with Shadowrun is how virtually ever published adventure
>module used the same plot line.
>
>Act One: Runners are hired by johnson to get something/someone.
>Act Two: Mr Johnson double-crosses runners. Runners discover deep dark
>supernatural conspiracy.
>Act Three: Runners save the World.
>Conclusion: Runners end up with less money than when they started.
>
>Of course, the simple solution is to use your own damned imagination to come
>up with scenarios.

The annoying thing that happened when I tried to run it was that I
came up with with an introductory adventure to introduce them to their

fixer, and one of the players insisted on leaping ahead to the double
crossing by doublecrossing her on the automatic assumption that she
was going to doublecross them, which of course she was not, at least
on that occasion. Screwed the entire group from the getgo by behaving
in such a way that nobody would ever trust them to do a job.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 5:02:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

In rec.games.frp.misc Stephen Gilman <ao668@ncf.ca> wrote:
>My only gripe with Shadowrun is how virtually ever published adventure
>module used the same plot line.

>Act One: Runners are hired by johnson to get something/someone.
>Act Two: Mr Johnson double-crosses runners. Runners discover deep dark
>supernatural conspiracy.
>Act Three: Runners save the World.
>Conclusion: Runners end up with less money than when they started.

Sounds about right, yeah. My biggest gripe from the short time
I played was the deckers. Great character concept, fun SFX,
but they brought the whole game to a screeching halt when it
was time for them to do their thing. They got to jack in and
have fun while the rest of the players just sat around waiting
for the real-world stuff to begin again. We sometimes used
very simplified rules for deckers that didn't take long at
all, but that screws over the decker players because they
don't get any spotlight time. I'm not sure how the game
could've dealt with it other than making all deckers NPCs.

I've always thought Shadowrun would make a great computer
game, and the decking would be a big draw for me there.
And since it'd be one player, it wouldn't slow things
down for everyone else.

Pete
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 6:21:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

On 21 Feb 2005 14:02:45 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:

>I've always thought Shadowrun would make a great computer
>game, and the decking would be a big draw for me there.
>And since it'd be one player, it wouldn't slow things
>down for everyone else.

Back in the late days of the Apple II there was Neuromancer (built
around the William GIbson book of the same name) Despite what we would
now consider primitive graphics it was a pretty good game.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

Re: Shadowrun RPG

Peter Meilinger wrote:
>
> Sounds about right, yeah. My biggest gripe from the short
> time I played was the deckers. Great character concept,
> fun SFX, but they brought the whole game to a screeching
> halt when it was time for them to do their thing. They
> got to jack in and have fun while the rest of the players
> just sat around waiting for the real-world stuff to begin
> again. We sometimes used very simplified rules for
> deckers that didn't take long at all, but that screws
> over the decker players because they don't get any
> spotlight time. I'm not sure how the game could've dealt
> with it other than making all deckers NPCs.

While this wouldn't work for everyone, the game of Shadowrun I played
solved this by having the decker character be played by the one player
who lived near the GM. We'd either attempt to schedule a decking
attempt as the end of a session, or when the decking occurred, the GM
and the decker's player would use a simplified resolution to determine
what happened, and we'd keep going. During the week between game
sessions, the GM and the decker's player would play out the full
decking between the two of them.

Hope this helps someone.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 1:52:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

I was thinking maybe you could automate the decker thing. Basically,
have a computer program set up on a laptop or other machine near the
gaming table; set the decker in front of the machine, and let him go at
it. that way, the GM can pay attention to the rest of the group in the
meantime, giving them something to do.

I need to practice coding anyway...
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 8:45:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

>...have a computer program set up on a laptop or other machine
>near the gaming table; set the decker in front of the machine, and
>let him go at it.

It's been done--at least, there's a program that claims to do it,
but I couldn't tell you how effective and bug-free the program
is, never having run it personally.

*digs for URL*

Aha. Here: http://www.geocities.com/icetoaster/index.html

The one big problem I noted is that you can't pause it. So if
you've got your decker doing stuff that's supposed to interact
with the rest of the PCs, you'd better roll your dice *fast*.
Nor is it clear what version of the rules it uses.

--Neon Fox
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 10:53:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) writes:

>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:26:21 -0500, ao668@ncf.ca (Stephen Gilman)
>wrote:


>The annoying thing that happened when I tried to run it was that I
>came up with with an introductory adventure to introduce them to their
>fixer, and one of the players insisted on leaping ahead to the double
>crossing by doublecrossing her on the automatic assumption that she
>was going to doublecross them, which of course she was not, at least
>on that occasion.

Seems like the sort of thing that would make sense to do, in a way.
Well, to the extent that you can get away with it. My favorite games
of Shadowrun usually involved one guy in our group doublecrossing not
only the fixer or Johnson but most of the group as well.

Good times, good times.

>Screwed the entire group from the getgo by behaving
>in such a way that nobody would ever trust them to do a job.

Who trusts? It's Shadowrun. Besides, a reputation is like
paper clothes -- it gets too dirty, you throw it out.

--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ fhqwhgadshgnsdhjsdbkhsdabkfabkveybvf
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:31:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.cyber,alt.games.shadowrun,alt.history.future (More info?)

Stephen Gilman wrote:

> Just look at Rifts with all their world-books. I think Palladium would be
> better off writing adventure modules than coming out with all the world
> books. Develop North American more fully, and don't spread yourself too
> thin.

The fact that Palladium is still in business, when literally hundreds
of other competitors have gone by the wayside, argues that they know
their market very well and that they're doing something very right.




--
Sea Wasp
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