I need a good fantasy rpg

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I've been playing D&D for a long time now, but I'm not happy with the
way the game handles certain things (I don't like levels, I don't like
how strength modifies melee attack rolls instead of dexterity, I don't
like how armour makes a character harder to hit rather than reduce the
damage a character takes from each hit, I don't like prestige classes,
I don't like how characters have to be confined by classes, etc). So,
now I'm looking at what other fantasy rpg systems are available. I've
checked out Hero System and Harnmaster but neither of those systems
seemed very good (WAY to complex. I'm not too fond of systems where
you need a calculator to create a character, work out out an attack,
or just have a character walk down the street). Right now I'm leaning
towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules without being
unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other fantasy rpg
systems there are out there.

Michael
 
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>Right now I'm leaning
> towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules without being
> unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other fantasy rpg
> systems there are out there.
>

If you want simple rules then IMO, you can't beat Fudge (Very simple to
play but not so simple to GM) . If that is too free form for you then take
a look at Savage Worlds. You can get Fudge free on the web or go out to
http://www.drivethroughrpg.com/catalog/index.php and buy a PDF copy of
Savage Worlds.

There is also a free test drive version of Savage Worlds here
http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Downloads/SW%20Rev/TestDrive4.pdf

Mitch
 
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All right, I found a couple that might suit you, but they'll both need
some work to flesh them out better.

First is Chivalry and Sorcery Essence. It's not quite like the full
blown print version, but it's simple enough, and armor reduces damage
taken.

www.britgamedesigns.co.uk/download/cnsfast.pdf

I know, I know, it has classes, but it also has skills that you can use
to make other classes if you want. Only four pages, so you'll have to
expand it a bit.


The other one is Dark Dungeons. It's a bit longer, but you'll still
have to do some work to flesh it out better. Definitely has an old
school, medieval feel to it.

www.darkdungeon.ws/DD2LITE.pdf

Best of all, both are available for free.


Ralph Glatt
 
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In message <f83817d2.0504221756.1a36233d@posting.google.com>,
Shadowdragon <mtbedwards@rogers.com> writes
>Right now I'm leaning towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules
>without being unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other
>fantasy rpg systems there are out there.

GURPS is very good: I'm starting a new GURPS Fantasy game myself this
week.

Other systems you might like to try:

RUNEQUEST (long out of print now sort of available again from Chaosium
as BASIC ROLEPLAYING). A skill based percentile system. No classes.

D6 Fantasy. Dunno nothing about it but it is available.

WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAYING. Perhaps too dnd like.

BIG EYES SMALL MOUTH. Very adaptable. Quite light rules wise.


--
Michael Cule
 
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Michael Cule <mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAYING. Perhaps too dnd like.

Normally I'd say the similarities were fairly minor, but
if characters classes are one of the sticking points then
yeah, WFRP probably isn't the way to go. Shame, though,
since it's such a cool game.

Pete
 
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Shadowdragon <mtbedwards@rogers.com> wrote:

>checked out Hero System and Harnmaster but neither of those systems
>seemed very good (WAY to complex. I'm not too fond of systems where
>you need a calculator to create a character, work out out an attack,
>or just have a character walk down the street). Right now I'm leaning
>towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules without being
>unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other fantasy rpg
>systems there are out there.

GURPS is a great game, but it can get pretty complex if you
let it. If you only took a quick glance at Hero, I'd urge
you to take another look. Character creation can be pretty
complicated, especially for superheroes or fantasy characters
with spells, but once you get down to actually playing I've
never known it to be any worse than GURPS. And the one
advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
using the basic rules given. With GURPS, if you don't
like the magic systems from the book, you'll have to
completely create your own.

On the other hand, there are a fair number of pretty
cool magic systems given in the various GURPS books,
what with the fantasy magic and the ritual magic and
psionics and superpowers and whatnot.

It's a judgement call, obviously. If I were doing something
like a "standard" fantasy game, whatever the hell that is,
I'd probably use GURPS. If I were trying to model a setting
with a unique magic system I'd go to Hero.

Pete
 
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In article <wZBRTmAHr4aCFwFv@room3b.demon.co.uk>,
Michael Cule <mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <f83817d2.0504221756.1a36233d@posting.google.com>,
>Shadowdragon <mtbedwards@rogers.com> writes
>>Right now I'm leaning towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules
>>without being unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other
>>fantasy rpg systems there are out there.
>
>GURPS is very good: I'm starting a new GURPS Fantasy game myself this
>week.
>
>Other systems you might like to try:
>
>RUNEQUEST (long out of print now sort of available again from Chaosium
>as BASIC ROLEPLAYING). A skill based percentile system. No classes.
>
>D6 Fantasy. Dunno nothing about it but it is available.
>
>WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAYING. Perhaps too dnd like.
>
>BIG EYES SMALL MOUTH. Very adaptable. Quite light rules wise.

Hm. I like HÂRNMASTER quite a lot for a number of points, even though I
still use GURPS as my system. Actually I use the damage and healing rules
of Hârnmaster (after I realized they are less complex to handle than it
looks). What I like about Hârnmaster, too, is a very nice gameworld (which I
do not use ;), but I use a number of Hârnmaster-tables for random character
generation and inspiration for random encounters (some of my storylines
developed out of this).

My magic system is a very strange mix of GURPS and SAGA. (Does
anyone even know this? The ideas are a great inspiration.) I like the way
GURPS handles character generation (point based, non-random, no classes, no
levels) and experience (just continue to use the same points). Some
inspiration for magic and religion come from GURPS Voodoo, as do the rules
for ghosts and similar thing (my momentary game world is mostly late stone age, which means primitive agricultural, with an animistic take to religion and the aforementioned magic).

So what would I propose to use as a system? I would propose you look at
some of them, take one for basic rules and mix in what you like. None has a
monopoly on common sense. (Only you have. Or so. :)

cu

AW
--
<ThePhonk> *tueteKlammernUeberVariableAuskipp* Dereferenzier Dich, Du
+Miststueck!
 
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Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
> Michael Cule <mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAYING. Perhaps too dnd like.
>
> Normally I'd say the similarities were fairly minor, but
> if characters classes are one of the sticking points then
> yeah, WFRP probably isn't the way to go. Shame, though,
> since it's such a cool game.

I haven't seen WFRP2 yet, but in the first edition, there are so
many careers that there's usually something to your liking.
The only thing that's missing is an Adventurer career, as most
of the other careers assume that it's an actual job.

The career system is far from perfect, but it has character and
I've never considered it to be very D&D like. In WFRP2 it's
rumoured to be a bit more balanced.


mcv.
 
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> I haven't seen WFRP2 yet, but in the first edition, there are so
> many careers that there's usually something to your liking.
> The only thing that's missing is an Adventurer career, as most
> of the other careers assume that it's an actual job.

I always explain to the players that they are all "Adventurer's" and that
the "Career" that they are working on is really a _teacher_. So a player
who is on the Mercenary Captain career is really and Adventurer who is being
trained by a Mercenary Captain during his down time.

Mitch
 
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julian814@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The other one is Dark Dungeons. It's a bit longer, but you'll still
> have to do some work to flesh it out better. Definitely has an old
> school, medieval feel to it.
>
> www.darkdungeon.ws/DD2LITE.pdf

I've played this one on a couple of Dutch conventions, where a group
of GMs organised a very big, multi-group DD adventure. Lots of fun,
extremely easy to play. Skills are very big, especially magic-related
ones. For example, I played a wizard with the skill Forcefields (at
some skill level), which meant that I could put all sorts of forcefields
everywhere. Presumably with spells, but the actual spells themselves
weren't detailed. Other wizards had "fire" or something like that.
Requires a lot of GM fudging, but it's fun and fast, and gets right
down to the storytelling.


mcv.
 
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You could take a look at the pre-D20 version of Sovereign Stone. Very
simple and flexible rules, but not so simple that they don't offer
support for playing. Basically, all stats and skills have ratings from
d4 to d12, and when you do something, you roll one die for a stat and
another for a skill and add them. The sum determines the result. The
magic system based on this is _very_ cool. The setting is pretty
standard fare, designed by Larry Elmore.

There were two printings of this game, a softcover and a hardcover. You
should go with the hardcover, since the softcover contains numerous
errors due to a too-hasty release. Both are out of print, buy shouldn't
be too hard to find (they may even be marked way down.

Another option is the Buffy The Vampire Slayer game. It is made for a
modern urban fantasy setting, but it should be quite easy to adapt to a
standard fantasy setting. Very simple, with the option of playing a
character of mythic proportions or an ordinary guy who is very lucky.
There is a lot of support for this game.

- Klaus
 
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Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
> Shadowdragon <mtbedwards@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>checked out Hero System and Harnmaster but neither of those systems
>>seemed very good (WAY to complex. I'm not too fond of systems where
>>you need a calculator to create a character, work out out an attack,
>>or just have a character walk down the street). Right now I'm leaning
>>towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules without being
>>unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other fantasy rpg
>>systems there are out there.
>
> GURPS is a great game, but it can get pretty complex if you
> let it. If you only took a quick glance at Hero, I'd urge
> you to take another look. Character creation can be pretty
> complicated, especially for superheroes or fantasy characters
> with spells, but once you get down to actually playing I've
> never known it to be any worse than GURPS. And the one
> advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
> you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
> using the basic rules given.

Does that work well? CORPS also has a "design your own paranormal power"
system, but if you try to use it, you get the irrestistible urge to
chew your own head off. The rest of CORPS is great, though.

> With GURPS, if you don't
> like the magic systems from the book, you'll have to
> completely create your own.

> On the other hand, there are a fair number of pretty
> cool magic systems given in the various GURPS books,
> what with the fantasy magic and the ritual magic and
> psionics and superpowers and whatnot.

The ritual magic system from GURPS Spirits and GURPS Voodoo is
really cool. Powerful, scary and dangerous, great atmosphere,
flexible, and still reasonably balanced. Not so suitable for
standard fantasy with fireball throwing wizards, but great if
you want something darker and more sinister.

> It's a judgement call, obviously. If I were doing something
> like a "standard" fantasy game, whatever the hell that is,
> I'd probably use GURPS.

For fantasy I recommend GURPS 4th edition over 3rd edition, because
ST and HT are more useful in 3rd edition. A strong barbarian won't
be as easily outclassed by nimble fencers as in 3rd edition.


mcv.
 
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mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:

>> advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
>> you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
>> using the basic rules given.

>Does that work well? CORPS also has a "design your own paranormal power"
>system, but if you try to use it, you get the irrestistible urge to
>chew your own head off. The rest of CORPS is great, though.

I think Hero works great for coming up with unique powers,
but other people just don't like the system at all. Put
it this way - if you like Hero for superhero games, which
it's more or less intended for, then I think you'll like
it for designing unique magical powers and spells. If you
don't have any experience with Hero, it's hard to say if
you'll like it. Basically, you have a lot of fairly generic
powers that you can modify to get exactly what you want.
You can take the Energy Blast power, for example, and
turn it into a flamethrower, an ice blast, a photon
lance, any damned thing you want, really, by
applying a number of advantages and disadvantages and
deciding on special effects. Some people don't like
things that generic and malleable, but I love it.

It definitely works well when modeling odd magical
systems, too. I don't know if anyone here is familiar
with the Ethshar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans, but
there are three or four major, very different magic
systems in that setting, and I was able to model
them all pretty well using Hero. There were some
problems and some things that have to be ruled on
by DM fiat, but Hero was much more useful than
GURPS or any other game I can think of would have
been.

Pete
 
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On 25 Apr 2005 22:44:21 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:


>> GURPS is a great game, but it can get pretty complex if you
>> let it. If you only took a quick glance at Hero, I'd urge
>> you to take another look. Character creation can be pretty
>> complicated, especially for superheroes or fantasy characters
>> with spells, but once you get down to actually playing I've
>> never known it to be any worse than GURPS. And the one
>> advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
>> you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
>> using the basic rules given.
>
>Does that work well?

Not in my experience. For one thing, Hero has granularity issues at
low power levels.
 
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On 25 Apr 2005 23:36:04 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:

>mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>>> advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
>>> you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
>>> using the basic rules given.
>
>>Does that work well? CORPS also has a "design your own paranormal power"
>>system, but if you try to use it, you get the irrestistible urge to
>>chew your own head off. The rest of CORPS is great, though.
>
>I think Hero works great for coming up with unique powers,
>but other people just don't like the system at all. Put
>it this way - if you like Hero for superhero games, which
>it's more or less intended for, then I think you'll like
>it for designing unique magical powers and spells.

I do like it for superhero games. But not for fantasy spells because
they are just too damn expensive without resort to multipowers and
variable power pools, which place a ceiling on the power of magical
effects that I'd rather not have.
 
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"Klaus Æ. Mogensen" <klaudiusNOSPAM@get2net.dk> typed:

>You could take a look at the pre-D20 version of Sovereign Stone. Very
>simple and flexible rules, but not so simple that they don't offer
>support for playing. Basically, all stats and skills have ratings from
>d4 to d12, and when you do something, you roll one die for a stat and
>another for a skill and add them. The sum determines the result. The
>magic system based on this is _very_ cool. The setting is pretty
>standard fare, designed by Larry Elmore.
>
>There were two printings of this game, a softcover and a hardcover. You
>should go with the hardcover, since the softcover contains numerous
>errors due to a too-hasty release. Both are out of print, buy shouldn't
>be too hard to find (they may even be marked way down.

There's a pdf of the quickstart rules for this as well. Not sure if
it's still available.

Avoid the 1st edition softcover. The reviews of it were brutal.

--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
 
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:46:37 +0000, David Johnston wrote:

> On 25 Apr 2005 23:36:04 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>>I think Hero works great for coming up with unique powers,
>>but other people just don't like the system at all. Put
>>it this way - if you like Hero for superhero games, which
>>it's more or less intended for, then I think you'll like
>>it for designing unique magical powers and spells.
>
> I do like it for superhero games. But not for fantasy spells because
> they are just too damn expensive without resort to multipowers and
> variable power pools, which place a ceiling on the power of magical
> effects that I'd rather not have.

So use a magic system that doesn't require spells to be purchased
directly. Such as a spell skill system, where you buy the Power skill for
each class of spell and have to make a <foo> spell school roll at -1/10
Active to cast a spell.

Fantasy Hero spends a fair chunk of space on magic and magic systems,
including several example systems.

--
Phoenix
 
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David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> On 25 Apr 2005 23:36:04 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
>>mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>> advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is that
>>>> you can simulate damned near any magical system or ability
>>>> using the basic rules given.
>>
>>>Does that work well? CORPS also has a "design your own paranormal power"
>>>system, but if you try to use it, you get the irrestistible urge to
>>>chew your own head off. The rest of CORPS is great, though.
>>
>>I think Hero works great for coming up with unique powers,
>>but other people just don't like the system at all. Put
>>it this way - if you like Hero for superhero games, which
>>it's more or less intended for, then I think you'll like
>>it for designing unique magical powers and spells.
>
> I do like it for superhero games. But not for fantasy spells because
> they are just too damn expensive without resort to multipowers and
> variable power pools, which place a ceiling on the power of magical
> effects that I'd rather not have.

CORPS has the same problem. It works when you want a single power to
do everything, but it doesn't work well for spells.


mcv.
 
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Travis Casey <efindel@earthlink.net> writes:

> If you love crunchy combat with lots of options, The Burning Wheel has that
> in spades:
>
> http://www.key20direct.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=11&products_id=93&osCsid=bae0fe0ab4ebf72d462f0080b62e7034
>
> ... and that's just a few that hadn't been mentioned so far. Like I said,
> there are *lots* of fantasy RPGs.

I can reservedly recommend Burning Wheel. I've been playing RPGs
for over 20 years, so I've seen enough that I can get a decent
read off a game from simply reading it -- Burning Wheel seems to
do all the right things after thoroughly reading it.

However, my "reservedly" comes from these two points:

* I have not actually played it yet, so I can't recommend it from
a playtest point of view: it /reads/ like it should work
nicely, but I can't be absolutely certain of it

* The "scripting" mechanic it uses for detailed conflict is
nearly unique, so it's hard to know from just a read how well
or not-well it will work

This is the right time to try the game out as it's Revised
Edition has just been released (well, pre-ordered books have been
shipped, and the official launch is on May 5th, but Key20Direct
is selling it at the moment, so presumably you'd get yours in a
week or two).

Do *not* cheap out and find a used copy of the original edition;
the revised edition has enough added that it's worth the cover
price.

I heartily recommend getting the "Monster Burner" book as well as
the core rule books; it provides lots of insight into why the
rules are the way they are, and also gives you much more support
in populating your fantasy world with creatures of all sorts.


I can also recommend "The Riddle of Steel", which I *have*
playtested. The combat system is crunchy (very crunchy) but it
plays reasonably well. The skill system is a bit odd, but also
plays well. The magic system is grotesquely powerful, but
interesting. For an in-depth review of it, read Ron Edwards
review at the Forge: it's quite insightful. I quite liked TRoS;
when I ran it, I junked its world background, and used the world
from Lace and Steel, and this worked very nicely indeed.

We had a lot of fun with our playtest adventure, and some combat
moments were very fun indeed -- the main villain was completely
incapacitated by one of the heroes tripping him as he ran down a
flight of steps in a castle. The fall sufficiently mangled his
knee that he was easily subdued after that.

There is very little in the main rulebook to support wider,
campaign style play, however; I would heartily recommend getting
both the supplements, as they are both excellent. 'Of Beasts and
Men' fills out the "creature creator" need excellently, and "The
Flower of Battle" is really "The Riddle of Steel Companion", and
has oodles of very useful stuff in it.

We haven't played TRoS after our initial playtest, but not
because we didn't like it -- we just had other games we also
wanted to try out.


One of the GMs in our group is currently running a fantasy game
with Ron Edward's Sorcerer. It provides a tightly focussed kind
of game, but it's been largely fun. The mechanics are lean and
interesting. However, I strongly doubt it would serve games with
a wide genre appeal (there are certain kinds of characters and
stories that the game just doesn't serve because of its built-in
focus on the "sorcerer dilemma").

--
Viktor Haag : Senior Technical Writer : Research In Motion
 
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mtbedwards@rogers.com (Shadowdragon) writes:

> I've been playing D&D for a long time now, but I'm not happy with the
> way the game handles certain things (I don't like levels, I don't like
> how strength modifies melee attack rolls instead of dexterity, I don't
> like how armour makes a character harder to hit rather than reduce the
> damage a character takes from each hit, I don't like prestige classes,
> I don't like how characters have to be confined by classes, etc). So,
> now I'm looking at what other fantasy rpg systems are available. I've
> checked out Hero System and Harnmaster but neither of those systems
> seemed very good (WAY to complex. I'm not too fond of systems where
> you need a calculator to create a character, work out out an attack,
> or just have a character walk down the street). Right now I'm leaning
> towards GURPS as it seems to have the best rules without being
> unnecessarily complex, but I'd like to know what other fantasy rpg
> systems there are out there.

I second Klaus' suggestion of pre-d20 Sovereign Stone as a simple and
fun system. Another possibility is Talislanta (4th edition, not the
recently released d20 version). You can get a playable sample of the
rules and part of the setting at (http://www.talislanta.com/download.htm).

You could also use West End Games' d6 system (basically, the system
they used in their Star Wars game). It may require some adaptation to
fit to a Fantasy setting, though. See
(http://www.westendgames.com/html/plyd6.html).

Torben
 
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rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) writes:

> On 25 Apr 2005 22:44:21 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> And the one advantage Hero has over GURPS, in my opinion, is
>>> that you can simulate damned near any magical system or
>>> ability using the basic rules given.
>>
>>Does that work well?
>
> Not in my experience. For one thing, Hero has granularity
> issues at low power levels.

The granularity issues are there, but they are manageable by
making the system more complex than the "basic game". There a
boat load of "optional systems" which help address the
granularity issues, but they're lots of extra work to implement
as well.

With HERO, you're well advised to begin playing in its "natural
state": comic book heroes. Once you have a "native speaker"
feeling for the system, using it for other heroic (but lower
power) kinds of things becomes much easier.

However, it's natural state is not "grim and gritty realism". But
I find that most people who express a wish for this, don't really
want it -- they're looking for other kinds of things in the
backgrounds they play in, and the story-bits they want can be
provided by clever and familiar use of the system

HERO, for those who have taken the time to become familiar with
it, is a very strong and robust system. This is more important
with HERO than with most systems, I think -- it's such a flexible
organ that it's just as important as GM to learn what kinds of
things you shouldn't allow your players to do, as the kinds of
things you should encourage.


Greg Porter's designs tend to provide more of a "natural state"
at the grim and gritty level. Both CORPS and EABA are well
designed, robust systems. However, be prepared for a /lot/ of
legwork to use them -- Greg is no Steve Long when it comes to
output, but then who is, really. Both games are great foundations
on which to build, but you're going to be doing a lot of the
building on your own. A "beta test" version of the CORPS Bestiary
has been kicking around for years, but still hasn't been
published. EABA still has no equivalent, and it's "Stuff" book
(the rules for creating, well, stuff (like vehicles, creatures,
buildings, etc)) seems destined for the same process (years and
years of testing, and slow writing and tweaking, with
questionable chance of actually seeing the light of day at the
end of the tunnel). The good news is that Greg is a decent
fellow, and if you participate in the community and are polite
about it, you can likely get access to material that has not yet
been published (especially if you are of a mind to help him and
others build it).


GURPS' chief point of recommendation in my opinion is the amount
of support material available. From a playtest point of view, in
my opinion it's the weakest of the the four systems mentioned
here. With a little elbow grease, most GURPS material is
trivially translatable to CORPS and/or EABA, and if you don't
mind the elbow grease, I'd recommend this as the way to go if you
really want that natural "street level" feel to your adventures.



--
Viktor Haag : Senior Technical Writer : Research In Motion
 
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mcv wrote:
> David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>> On 25 Apr 2005 23:36:04 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:

>>>I think Hero works great for coming up with unique powers,
>>>but other people just don't like the system at all. Put
>>>it this way - if you like Hero for superhero games, which
>>>it's more or less intended for, then I think you'll like
>>>it for designing unique magical powers and spells.
>>
>> I do like it for superhero games. But not for fantasy spells because
>> they are just too damn expensive without resort to multipowers and
>> variable power pools, which place a ceiling on the power of magical
>> effects that I'd rather not have.
>
> CORPS has the same problem. It works when you want a single power to
> do everything, but it doesn't work well for spells.

Hero can work very well for spells; see the current edition of Fantasy Hero
and the Fantasy Hero Grimoire (which gives well over a hundred spells;
around a thousand, if you count each variant form as a separate spell).
There's also an FH Grimoire II, with yet more pre-made spells.

I understand the just-released Valdorian Age supplement introduces another
magic system, also built from Hero powers, and some other rules tweaks for
doing sword-and-sorcery-style fantasy. You might want to take a look at
the recent reviews of it on rpg.net.

But to get back to the original question about fantasy RPGs... there are
literally a couple hundred of them. If you want to restrict yourself to
just those in print, that brings it down to probably a few dozen.

If you like GURPS, but find it on the complex side, you might want to try
its predecessor, The Fantasy Trip. It's long out of print, but PDFs of all
the core books are at:

http://www.deiker.net/tft

Anvilwerks' Donjon is a fantasy RPG very different from anything you've
probably played before. In some ways, it's best suited for humorous
fantasy, but people have played it straight:

http://www.anvilwerks.com/donjon/

Anvilwerks also has The Shadow of Yesterday, which I haven't played yet, but
I've heard good things about. It's available for free in HTML, or for pay
as a book:

http://www.anvilwerks.com/tsoy/

If you love crunchy combat with lots of options, The Burning Wheel has that
in spades:

http://www.key20direct.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=11&products_id=93&osCsid=bae0fe0ab4ebf72d462f0080b62e7034

.... and that's just a few that hadn't been mentioned so far. Like I said,
there are *lots* of fantasy RPGs.

--
ZZzz |\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
 
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Travis Casey <efindel@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Anvilwerks' Donjon is a fantasy RPG very different from anything you've
> probably played before. In some ways, it's best suited for humorous
> fantasy, but people have played it straight:

This is not related to the Donjon comic by Sfar and Trondheim, is it?
I once saw a reference to a game called Donjon Krawl that sounded like
it was, but I'm not sure.


mcv.
 
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Mitch Williams wrote:
> > I haven't seen WFRP2 yet, but in the first edition, there are so
> > many careers that there's usually something to your liking.
> > The only thing that's missing is an Adventurer career, as most
> > of the other careers assume that it's an actual job.
>
> I always explain to the players that they are all "Adventurer's" and
that
> the "Career" that they are working on is really a _teacher_. So a
player
> who is on the Mercenary Captain career is really and Adventurer who
is being
> trained by a Mercenary Captain during his down time.
>
> Mitch


The characters in my campaigns are almost never adventurers. They are
people who wind up in situations where an adventure is possible,
desirable or necessarry. The players get into the spirit of NOT
planning for a life of adventure, NOT spending all their money on magic
weapons and/or armor or spell gadgets, actually expecting real life to
resume. Only a small subset train incessantly for dangers that they
logically should never expect to face again.

They assume that once a danger is passed or an obstacle surmounted that
they can party or go shopping, stop hanging out together or look for a
job. Eventually some of them learn better but most of them don't
because it often turns out to be true.

They rarely form a "party" and generally treat the other
player-characters pretty much like any other people until they have
formed some relationships among themselves. Even then, they are often
tied by bonds of loyalty and affection with NPCs, exceeding their bonds
with the other PCs.

Everyone to his own taste.

Will in New Haven

--

After a lifelong study of the Buddha's words, I have to regretfully
admit that the Four Noble Truths are probably not
Faster Horses,
Older Whiskey,
Younger Women,
More Money
 
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