Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

No LCD good enough for NVIDIA 8800 GTX?

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
Share
November 23, 2006 10:00:35 AM

Hi people,

I'm wondering if I can get a bit of advice. I am planning to get a
high end new machine in the new year -with Vista and a 8800 GTX
graphics card. I'll spend around £2500. And my main focus is on
gaming. But it seems to me that there are no LCD monitors out there
that can do that spec justice. This site, when reviewing the 7950 GX2,
said there was nopoint in getting it if you play in less than 1600x1200.
The 8800GTX will make this situation even worse!

So my question is, unless you have a CRT monitor the size of a small
car, is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX? Is there a gaming
LCD up to the task?

I may post this in the graphics card forum too, hope that's allowed...

Thanks people!
a b U Graphics card
November 25, 2006 5:04:49 PM

Depends on the game. Some games may need the power.

Regarding LCDs, first off, there is no such thing as a gaming LCD. All LCDs are unable to achieve a sufficient response time to completely get rid of smearing like CRTs.
The 20" model LCDs run at 1600x1200. Or, you can play games using dual monitors.
November 29, 2006 11:57:34 AM

Quote:
Depends on the game. Some games may need the power.

Regarding LCDs, first off, there is no such thing as a gaming LCD. All LCDs are unable to achieve a sufficient response time to completely get rid of smearing like CRTs.
The 20" model LCDs run at 1600x1200. Or, you can play games using dual monitors.

Have you ever used a quality LCD? Jeez, the whole respose time thing is of the past. I switched from a CRT to an LCD about three months ago my LCD is better in every single way. Image quality, contrast, brightness, size, everything. I've never seen any ghosting, ever.

Alastair, take a look at the Samsung 204B on newegg. It's a 20.1" LCD running at 1600x1200 with a 5 ms response time. It's a very popular LCD at the moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

It's actually out of stock right now, but I'm sure they will have it in soon or if you can find it for a similar price somewhere else then go for it. It's a very good deal for the price.
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2006 11:56:38 PM

Quote:

Have you ever used a quality LCD?

Depends on what you mean by quality. If you mean the best image quality and response time at the same time, then no. Those are very rare; and likely are not on display in many stores (definitely not any big name chains).

Quote:
the whole respose time thing is of the past.

Indeed, you may be right in that the issue is not technically response time limitations but image persistance as perceived by your brain. Future LCDs should be able to solve this by putting in a black frame between frames so your brain does not perceive that smearing effect. However, this still requires coupling the LCDs with a low enough response time that also does not have overdrive errors. There are many LCDs on the market still that do not have response times sufficient to match the refresh rate. In addition, some also have overdrive errors which can cause a kind of opposite color smearing.
Tell you what, pick any model LCD that you want, and I will show you the smearing compared to a CRT.

[code:1:3dd3ac0f61]I switched from a CRT to an LCD about three months ago my LCD is better in every single way. Image quality, contrast, brightness, size, everything. I've never seen any ghosting, ever.[/code:1:3dd3ac0f61]
I switch recently as well. My CRT is a Sony Trinitron (flatscreen) tube. It has degraded severely over the years, yet I can still spot many flaws in LCD design. I outlined many of the issues in other threads. Some issues can be solved by getting something like an S-IPS panel. Other issues are present in all the current panel types: like the screen door effect. Some people may not be able to spot such problems, but I can. For example, my mom probably wouldn't care about 6-bit vs 8-bit, but it is very noticeable to me under the right circumstances.


[code:1:3dd3ac0f61]
Alastair, take a look at the Samsung 204B on newegg. It's a 20.1" LCD running at 1600x1200 with a 5 ms response time. It's a very popular LCD at the moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

It's actually out of stock right now, but I'm sure they will have it in soon or if you can find it for a similar price somewhere else then go for it. It's a very good deal for the price.[/code:1:3dd3ac0f61]
Quite a popular model in the chain retailers. You can actually see it for yourself before you buy. It should be noted that the real response time on this monitor is 10-30ms with 20ms most of the time. However, as I've recently read elsewhere, the issue is not so much the response times now as it is the way your brain perceives the images on LCDs vs CRTs that makes it look much more blurred (at least so they say).
December 6, 2006 7:42:20 AM

Quote:
is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX?

well look at the outdoor framerates it gets in Oblivion and you tell me.

Quote:
Is there a gaming LCD up to the task?

resolution wise the dell 2000fp is 1600x1200.
December 14, 2006 7:17:13 PM

you're insane ... LCD's do not come anywhere close to the level of the CRT's in terms of performance. Have you ever used an LCD with a top end gaming rig? If so you would know it can't keep up. The refresh thing is far from a thing of the past if you use it for online shooters. And the Samsung 204B was so bad I had to purchase a new LCD after only a couple of weeks due to the blurring being so bad. You can't even run it without enabling V-Sync which drops your FPS to 60-75. 5ms just isn't cutting it, especially if you're running Crossfire or the like.

In the end, the ViewSonic VX922 is the best as far as refresh rate and it does do a pretty good job; far better than the worthless 204B.
December 15, 2006 6:44:05 PM

Hi guys, I have a Viewsonic G90F CRT and a Hyundai L90D+ LCD.

On my crt, which is 85 Hz, the frames are still blurred. When running around in diablo 2, it is very hard to read the stationary text.


So, keep in mind even on a crt there is blurring. There is definitely blurring in fps games, but it's probably better than MOST LCD's. I really want to upgrade my L90D+.
December 16, 2006 12:27:32 AM

This is what I myself was wondering. If this new amazing graphics card has the ability to give the user amazing frame rates at super high resolutions but the monitors can only handle 1600x1200 effectively (with some debate) why spend the money? There's also the question of widescreen... is it better for gaming or only movies?
December 16, 2006 4:09:23 AM

LCD's are fine for most game players. If you want to be a hardcore gamer, then no, buy a CRT.

The 8800 graphics card will make a difference if you are moving up from a lower end graphics card, but not if you are switching from a 7950GX2. Until. . . . Direct X 10 starts coming into play more. Then you'll be glad you bought the 8800. Will you see some blur. . . maybe, if you are focused on it rather than lost in a game.
December 20, 2006 4:55:21 AM

Quote:

So, keep in mind even on a crt there is blurring.


its cool you noticed. actually crts dont blur themselves but relay it from a bad source. for instance when...

1) framerates are below the refresh rate (temporal aliasing, a type of blur)
2) framerates are well above the refresh rate (lots of tearing, a type of blur)
3) low dpi/hertz mouse updates slower than the refresh rate (temporal aliasing again)
4) its in the source material (tv's only): mpeg compression, interlacing, 3:2 pulldown ect.

these originate at the source, not the display. once eliminated, you won't see any blur on a crt. it is easily fixed on a pc game for instance. (its probably not technically correct to catagorize all of these as causing "blur", but the effect is best described that way).
December 20, 2006 5:32:41 AM

Actually I know this isn't true from experience. I've owned a crt that ghosted, even when my game, Half-Life, was running at 60fps. I had vsync on. I really only noticed it when I was in a dark place with a bright light nearby, but I know that it was there. I've gotten another monitor since then, and I can still sense it since my eyes are very sensitive, but It's only on things like a white mouse pointer on a black background, and I have to be looking for it.
December 20, 2006 9:25:30 PM

Sup Fellas;

I just recently purchased a Samsung SyncMaster 225BW, and I love it.
My system is ageing my core is a p4c 3Ghz, Abit Is7, 1GB Crucial pc3200, with a BFG 7800GS-OC, and Hitachi 7k250, just to kind of give you an idea of what its plugged into.

I play Battlefield 2142, Quake 4, Need for Speed Carbon, Star Trek Legacy, Oblivion, Might and Magic: Dark Messiah, Tiger Woods 2007, Madden 2007, and many other games. I dont have the fabled blurring, ghosting, tearing, artifacts, etc, under any circumstances, its not that im not looking for them, they simply just arent there.
Im using DVI playing at a resolution of 1680x1050, or in some cases the closest to it the game will support.
IMO this panel is well worth its $400 price tag, as I cant find a single thing wrong with it.
When I bought the panel I didnt do any research on it, I simply trusted, some might say nievely, that Samsung produces a high quality panel, and that I wouldnt be dissapointed, well quite simply put, im pretty excited about my fortune, I guess I lucked out.
If you are looking for a panel that will display your games and high resolution video perfectly this is the one right here.

*Note*
Very few monitors are perfect right out of the box, I had to tweak mine a bit to get it to display perfectly, but if you arent lazy this isnt an issue.
Also using native widescreen resolutions is a must because with 4:3 resolutions you get patterned text blurring.
I havent tried using the VGA port with this monitor it may yield a completely different result.

Pros:
22" of widescreen heaven.
Fair price point.
Very fast.
Perfect display of high resolution video.
Excellent color representation.
Very good contrast to brightness ratio.
Thin edges.
Good height adjustment.

Cons:
Must use native widescreen resolutions Ex. 1680x1050, or text display is blurry.
Small amounts of light leakage at the bottom edge of the panel (not a distracting amount).

Personal Notes:
I would have prefered some aluminum accents, perhaps the stand, the panel is entirely black.

If you like large widescreen displays, buy this panel you wont be dissapointed.
December 21, 2006 12:38:57 AM

well any LCD smaller than 23" is going to be 1600x1200 native resolution (or lower), so if you want the full effect of the 8800, you'd have to go 24" or higher.

I'm planning on buying a samsung 244ft 24" and I've heard many good things about it, even in gaming

If you're going to be running at 1600x1200 or lower, IMHO, there's no point in getting a GTX.

BTW, the 244t is running about $830, i don't know what your budget is though.
a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2006 1:54:47 AM

You know, maybe a dual monitor setup would be the nicest way to take advantage of your video card? :) 
!