GURPS Supers for4e Lite

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

Okay, I've been doing some more noodling, investigating what supers
concepts are doable using only the new Lite. These will necessarily
be rather limited, so in some cases I will cheat and get into
possibilities suggested by the iconic characters and the appendix in
Dragons.

The following are only sketches, not full characters or even
templates. I am assuming 500 starting points for four-color concepts
(bricks, flyers, speedsters, etc.), but toning it down to 250 points
for costumed athlete types. Probably no more than 100 points Disads.
I'll start with the concepts that involve taking one or more of the
4 basic attributes to their logical extremes.

1) Superstrong (Brick). With the base 500 pts, the highest one can
go and leave points over for other Attributes, Brawling, etc. is ST
60. This provides a BL of 720 lbs, two-handed lift of ~5700 lbs or
just short of 3 tons. 6d or so thrusting damage, 60 HP. No bonus to
Move or leaping. Hopefully a "Super ST" Advantage of some sort will
be included in Basic, otherwise the Hulk and Thing will cost a *lot*
more than the Human Torch until Powers comes out (since we know that
Innate Attack costs 5 pts per 1d, as opposed to 100 pts per 1d
thrust damage from ST). Logical additional features (requiring
Disads) include higher HT, High Pain Threshold, Hard to Kill, and
some degree of Brawling or Karate (the latter, interestingly enough,
is really useful for this character type, since it adds +1 or +2 per
die). If getting into material beyond Lite, Damage Resistance (DR)
is almost a must at 5pts/level. It may even be worth selling back
some HP (again, while pending a true Super ST Advantage) in order to
afford additional HT and DR. Failing that, consider the Human Tank -
ST 30-60, walks around with medieval replica plate armor and a
ballistic vest as padding, since whether armor weights are revised
or not this will present no encumbrance problems whatsoever.

2) DX Monster. A supers level character that pours most of his or
her points into DX and related skills could be really deadly. Say go
to DX 30 [400 pts] and spend the balance of points on slightly
raised attributes, skills like Acrobatics, Karate, and weapons
skills, and possibly appropriate Advantages such as Catfall, Combat
Reflexes and Perfect Balance.

Actually, with DX 30, every melee skill will have a 'perfect' parry
associated with it, every ranged skill will be accurate at extreme
range, and the character will have at least Move 10 (20 mph) and
Dodge 13 (probably more with Combat Reflexes). Add in hit locations,
and the character gets even deadlier, plugging everybody with eye
shots at range.

An interesting alternative for this type is to tone down the DX a
little, and use the points to raise ST and HT a fair amount to get a
really strong, fast acrobat type. Say DX 24 [280], HT 20 [100], ST
20 [100], and buy Advantages and skills with the points from Disads.
Such a character still gets ridiculous skill levels, but also does a
lot more damage and actually has a Base Speed and Move of 11.

3) Speedster. Lite doesn't really provide a way to make a true
speedster. The closest it comes is the HT monster, since raising HT
is the cheapest way to raise Basic Speed and Move. So, consider the
character with, say DX 12 [40], HT 60 [500], for a Basic Speed and
Move of 18. Besides providing a really nice Dodge [21!], this
character can run around at 36 mph, and with all those Fatigue
Points, do it for an extended period of time.

This also has other interesting effects, of course. Drop a point
into Carousing and see what happens. Such a character can leap (18 x
6) - 10 = 98 inches, or 9 feet straight up from a standing position,
or make a thirty yard running broad jump. HT rolls for injury,
recovery, environmental conditions, or lack of food or rest are
never a problem either.

If we introduce rules from the iconic characters (like buying speed
at 20 pts/level or Basic Move at 5 pts/level) or from Dragons
(Enhanced Move at 20 pts/movement multiple), then of course making
classic speedsters becomes much more doable.

4) The Brain. Raising your IQ to ridiculous levels - say IQ 30 [400
pts] - has similar effects on Mental skills to those observed on
physical and combat skills for the DX Monster. Such characters are
also incredibly perceptive and strong-willed; one could add on
Advantages and skills to emphasize either of these aspects (Acute
Senses, Danger Sense, Night Vision for perception; High Pain
Threshold, Hard to Kill, etc. for will). Brainy characters are also
prime candidates for the Wildcard skills concept, taking skills like
Science! or Spy!.

5) Balanced Brick. One could split the difference between ST and HT,
going perhaps for soemthing like ST 30 [200], HT 30 [200], DX 14
[80]. This gives significant damage potential, Basic Speed and Move
of 11, Dodge of 14 before additional mods. This is about a Captain
America-like level of power; add Combat Reflexes [15], Karate-15
[8], Shield-14 [1] and carry a Medium Shield to be even more iconic
and run around with an effective Dodge of 17!

6) Jack of All Trades. Raise both DX and IQ to max human levels for
a character that can be good at everything (think Mr. Terrific). DX
20 [200 pts], IQ 20 [200 pts], plus additional Attributes and skills
to actually take advantage of the high skill stats.

More later, based on specific Advantages and Skills.
12 answers Last reply
More about gurps supers for4e lite
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    In article <700af493.0407151557.2b130be6@posting.google.com>,
    vitruvian@globalfrequency.org (Vitruvian) wrote:

    > Okay, I've been doing some more noodling, investigating what supers
    > concepts are doable using only the new Lite. These will necessarily
    > be rather limited, so in some cases I will cheat and get into
    > possibilities suggested by the iconic characters and the appendix in
    > Dragons.
    >
    > The following are only sketches, not full characters or even
    > templates. I am assuming 500 starting points for four-color concepts
    > (bricks, flyers, speedsters, etc.), but toning it down to 250 points
    > for costumed athlete types. Probably no more than 100 points Disads.
    > I'll start with the concepts that involve taking one or more of the
    > 4 basic attributes to their logical extremes.
    >
    > 1) Superstrong (Brick). With the base 500 pts, the highest one can
    > go and leave points over for other Attributes, Brawling, etc. is ST
    > 60. This provides a BL of 720 lbs, two-handed lift of ~5700 lbs or
    > just short of 3 tons. 6d or so thrusting damage, 60 HP. No bonus to
    > Move or leaping. Hopefully a "Super ST" Advantage of some sort will
    > be included in Basic, otherwise the Hulk and Thing will cost a *lot*
    > more than the Human Torch until Powers comes out (since we know that
    > Innate Attack costs 5 pts per 1d, as opposed to 100 pts per 1d
    > thrust damage from ST).

    Well if they survive unchanged Hyper-Strength advantage and Power Blow
    skill. As it is written Power Blow is currently a point bonanza - at skill
    20 you can double your strength with a second of concentration and at skill
    30 triple it. So the ST 60 Brick with Power Blow can act for short period
    as if he had a ST 120 or ST 180. Throw in Hyper-Strength with Reduced
    Fatigue Cost and/or Very Fit and things get real fun.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    vitruvian@globalfrequency.org (Vitruvian) wrote in message news:<700af493.0407151557.2b130be6@posting.google.com>...
    > Okay, I've been doing some more noodling, investigating what supers
    > concepts are doable using only the new Lite. These will necessarily
    > be rather limited, so in some cases I will cheat and get into
    > possibilities suggested by the iconic characters and the appendix in
    > Dragons.
    >
    > The following are only sketches, not full characters or even
    > templates. I am assuming 500 starting points for four-color concepts
    > (bricks, flyers, speedsters, etc.), but toning it down to 250 points
    > for costumed athlete types. Probably no more than 100 points Disads.
    > I'll start with the concepts that involve taking one or more of the
    > 4 basic attributes to their logical extremes.
    >
    > 1) Superstrong (Brick). With the base 500 pts, the highest one can
    > go and leave points over for other Attributes, Brawling, etc. is ST
    > 60. This provides a BL of 720 lbs, two-handed lift of ~5700 lbs or
    > just short of 3 tons. 6d or so thrusting damage, 60 HP. No bonus to
    > Move or leaping. Hopefully a "Super ST" Advantage of some sort will
    > be included in Basic, otherwise the Hulk and Thing will cost a *lot*
    > more than the Human Torch

    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. After all the power
    levels on comic book teams don't exactly balance out like characters
    built on the same number of points would.
    To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    abilities and your in the 4000+ point range. Personaly those kind of
    point totals don't bother me, but I have read posts by some who site
    them as reasons why Gurps can't do supers. Although it's an
    improvement over the points that used to be required to do the same
    thing.

    > until Powers comes out (since we know that
    > Innate Attack costs 5 pts per 1d, as opposed to 100 pts per 1d
    > thrust damage from ST). Logical additional features (requiring
    > Disads) include higher HT, High Pain Threshold, Hard to Kill, and
    > some degree of Brawling or Karate (the latter, interestingly enough,
    > is really useful for this character type, since it adds +1 or +2 per
    > die). If getting into material beyond Lite, Damage Resistance (DR)
    > is almost a must at 5pts/level. It may even be worth selling back
    > some HP (again, while pending a true Super ST Advantage) in order to
    > afford additional HT and DR. Failing that, consider the Human Tank -
    > ST 30-60, walks around with medieval replica plate armor and a
    > ballistic vest as padding, since whether armor weights are revised
    > or not this will present no encumbrance problems whatsoever.
    >

    Of course even with no armor or DR having HP=ST means a strong brick
    can still take a lot of punishment.

    > 2) DX Monster. A supers level character that pours most of his or
    > her points into DX and related skills could be really deadly. Say go
    > to DX 30 [400 pts] and spend the balance of points on slightly
    > raised attributes, skills like Acrobatics, Karate, and weapons
    > skills, and possibly appropriate Advantages such as Catfall, Combat
    > Reflexes and Perfect Balance.
    >
    > Actually, with DX 30, every melee skill will have a 'perfect' parry
    > associated with it, every ranged skill will be accurate at extreme
    > range, and the character will have at least Move 10 (20 mph) and
    > Dodge 13 (probably more with Combat Reflexes). Add in hit locations,
    > and the character gets even deadlier, plugging everybody with eye
    > shots at range.
    >
    > An interesting alternative for this type is to tone down the DX a
    > little, and use the points to raise ST and HT a fair amount to get a
    > really strong, fast acrobat type. Say DX 24 [280], HT 20 [100], ST
    > 20 [100], and buy Advantages and skills with the points from Disads.
    > Such a character still gets ridiculous skill levels, but also does a
    > lot more damage and actually has a Base Speed and Move of 11.
    >
    > 3) Speedster. Lite doesn't really provide a way to make a true
    > speedster. The closest it comes is the HT monster, since raising HT
    > is the cheapest way to raise Basic Speed and Move. So, consider the
    > character with, say DX 12 [40], HT 60 [500], for a Basic Speed and
    > Move of 18. Besides providing a really nice Dodge [21!], this
    > character can run around at 36 mph, and with all those Fatigue
    > Points, do it for an extended period of time.
    >
    > This also has other interesting effects, of course. Drop a point
    > into Carousing and see what happens. Such a character can leap (18 x
    > 6) - 10 = 98 inches, or 9 feet straight up from a standing position,
    > or make a thirty yard running broad jump. HT rolls for injury,
    > recovery, environmental conditions, or lack of food or rest are
    > never a problem either.
    >
    > If we introduce rules from the iconic characters (like buying speed
    > at 20 pts/level or Basic Move at 5 pts/level) or from Dragons
    > (Enhanced Move at 20 pts/movement multiple), then of course making
    > classic speedsters becomes much more doable.
    >
    > 4) The Brain. Raising your IQ to ridiculous levels - say IQ 30 [400
    > pts] - has similar effects on Mental skills to those observed on
    > physical and combat skills for the DX Monster. Such characters are
    > also incredibly perceptive and strong-willed; one could add on
    > Advantages and skills to emphasize either of these aspects (Acute
    > Senses, Danger Sense, Night Vision for perception; High Pain
    > Threshold, Hard to Kill, etc. for will). Brainy characters are also
    > prime candidates for the Wildcard skills concept, taking skills like
    > Science! or Spy!.
    >
    > 5) Balanced Brick. One could split the difference between ST and HT,
    > going perhaps for soemthing like ST 30 [200], HT 30 [200], DX 14
    > [80]. This gives significant damage potential, Basic Speed and Move
    > of 11, Dodge of 14 before additional mods. This is about a Captain
    > America-like level of power; add Combat Reflexes [15], Karate-15
    > [8], Shield-14 [1] and carry a Medium Shield to be even more iconic
    > and run around with an effective Dodge of 17!
    >
    > 6) Jack of All Trades. Raise both DX and IQ to max human levels for
    > a character that can be good at everything (think Mr. Terrific). DX
    > 20 [200 pts], IQ 20 [200 pts], plus additional Attributes and skills
    > to actually take advantage of the high skill stats.
    >
    > More later, based on specific Advantages and Skills.

    Nice work from just Lite. I can't wait to see what else you come up
    with.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    > > 1) Superstrong (Brick). With the base 500 pts, the highest one can
    > > go and leave points over for other Attributes, Brawling, etc. is ST
    > > 60. This provides a BL of 720 lbs, two-handed lift of ~5700 lbs or
    > > just short of 3 tons. 6d or so thrusting damage, 60 HP. No bonus to
    > > Move or leaping. Hopefully a "Super ST" Advantage of some sort will
    > > be included in Basic, otherwise the Hulk and Thing will cost a *lot*
    > > more than the Human Torch
    >
    > I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. After all the power
    > levels on comic book teams don't exactly balance out like characters
    > built on the same number of points would.
    > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    > the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    > points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    > Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    > abilities and your in the 4000+ point range. Personaly those kind of
    > point totals don't bother me, but I have read posts by some who site
    > them as reasons why Gurps can't do supers. Although it's an
    > improvement over the points that used to be required to do the same
    > thing.
    >

    Except I can't think of any reason for the system *not* to balance
    bricks and blasters against each other. Even if you subtract the HP,
    it's still ~80 pts per 1d of thrusting ST damage, vs something around
    5 pts per 1d of generic blasting damage. Sure, the ST lets you lift
    and carry better, but I'm not sure that's worth the extra 75 points...
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    On 16 Jul 2004 17:06:49 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    wrote:

    [...]
    > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    >the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    >points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    >Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    >abilities and your in the 4000+ point range.

    Are you sure you should really figure their STR level by using the
    maximum EFFORTLESS lift value?

    Shouldn't you use the "extra effort" value?
    I mean, under 3rd Ed, lots of STR means lots of Fatigue, and spending
    1 Fatigue out of 50, 80 or 100 doesn't mean "he's tired".

    Korin Duval

    --

    "Truth requires a great amount of courage;
    Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin Duval) wrote in message news:<40fb1a49.3939328@powernews.libero.it>...
    > On 16 Jul 2004 17:06:49 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    > wrote:
    >
    > [...]
    > > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    > >the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    > >points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    > >Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    > >abilities and your in the 4000+ point range.
    >
    > Are you sure you should really figure their STR level by using the
    > maximum EFFORTLESS lift value?
    >
    > Shouldn't you use the "extra effort" value?
    > I mean, under 3rd Ed, lots of STR means lots of Fatigue, and spending
    > 1 Fatigue out of 50, 80 or 100 doesn't mean "he's tired".
    >
    > Korin Duval

    The old 'extra effort' table is already incorporated into strength in
    4e, since ST is now specifically quadratic - lifting ability is
    figured according to the square of ST. Everybody gets a Basic Lift
    (BL) of ST times ST over 5; this represents your No Encumbrance level
    and how much you can easily lift in one hand in one second. Max
    two-handed lift (unsure if dead lift or press) is 8 times BL. So, ST
    300 gives a BL of 90,000/5 = 18,000 lbs, and max lift of about 72
    tons. Unfortunately, ST 300, absent any special 'Super ST' Advantage,
    costs 290 x 10 = 2900 character points on creation.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    In article <40fb1a49.3939328@powernews.libero.it>,
    korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin Duval) wrote:

    > On 16 Jul 2004 17:06:49 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    > wrote:
    >
    > [...]
    > > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    > >the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    > >points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    > >Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    > >abilities and your in the 4000+ point range.
    >
    > Are you sure you should really figure their STR level by using the
    > maximum EFFORTLESS lift value?
    >
    > Shouldn't you use the "extra effort" value?

    In 3rd edition this is a quadratic equation:

    2.5(ST^2) - 15(ST) - Total lifting weight = 0

    If a character has the Extra Encumbeance advantage the formula above
    changes to:

    3.5(ST^2) - 21(ST) - Total lifting weight = 0

    > I mean, under 3rd Ed, lots of STR means lots of Fatigue, and spending
    > 1 Fatigue out of 50, 80 or 100 doesn't mean "he's tired".

    I should mention that Fit and Very Fit effectively double the amount
    fatigue a 3rd character can use. Here is responce I posted on the strength
    of the silver age Superman back in 1998 that highlights the problems
    <http://tinyurl.com/67a72>:

    But what does 'Superman is 2^24 times as strong as a normal 10 ST human'
    really mean? Between the Lifting skill and Extra Effort Rule the -lifting
    ability- of GURPS characters baced on ST is NOT linear but is quardratic:

    2.5*ST^2 - 15*ST - Extra Effort lift = 0

    If we assume that 'Superman is 2^24 times as strong as a normal 10 ST
    human' refers to his lifting ability (which is how Kromm suggests we
    handle convertions of this type) than Superman lifts [10 (2^24) * 30] lbs
    or 503,316,480 lbs.

    Plugging this number back into Extra Effort lift's quadratic equation we
    get and effective ST of 14,191; far lower than the 16,777,217 you came up
    with.

    Throw in the Lifting skill at ST level (4 pt) and Superman's -accual- ST
    drops to 12,901. I would hardly call a difference of ~1182 times before
    applying the Lifting Skill as "slight change in figures". After the
    Lifting skill is used the difference increaces to 1300 times.

    And we have not even touched on the point total difference between these
    Strength totals. The Extra Effort rule alone reduces Superman's ST pt
    cost by 8,381,513 pts (!) and the Lifting skill reduces the cost by another
    645 pts. Hardly slight changes in figures.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    vitruvian@globalfrequency.org (Vitruvian) wrote in message news:<700af493.0407171930.6563d06b@posting.google.com>...
    > > > 1) Superstrong (Brick). With the base 500 pts, the highest one can
    > > > go and leave points over for other Attributes, Brawling, etc. is ST
    > > > 60. This provides a BL of 720 lbs, two-handed lift of ~5700 lbs or
    > > > just short of 3 tons. 6d or so thrusting damage, 60 HP. No bonus to
    > > > Move or leaping. Hopefully a "Super ST" Advantage of some sort will
    > > > be included in Basic, otherwise the Hulk and Thing will cost a *lot*
    > > > more than the Human Torch
    > >
    > > I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. After all the power
    > > levels on comic book teams don't exactly balance out like characters
    > > built on the same number of points would.
    > > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    > > the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    > > points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    > > Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    > > abilities and your in the 4000+ point range. Personaly those kind of
    > > point totals don't bother me, but I have read posts by some who site
    > > them as reasons why Gurps can't do supers. Although it's an
    > > improvement over the points that used to be required to do the same
    > > thing.
    > >
    >
    > Except I can't think of any reason for the system *not* to balance
    > bricks and blasters against each other. Even if you subtract the HP,
    > it's still ~80 pts per 1d of thrusting ST damage, vs something around
    > 5 pts per 1d of generic blasting damage. Sure, the ST lets you lift
    > and carry better, but I'm not sure that's worth the extra 75 points...

    I was refering more to the fact that comic book teams tend to have
    characters of widely varying power levels therfore there's no point in
    asuming that they would balance in point value when converted to a
    game. Even if you did balance Blasters VS Bricks it's still unlikely
    that The Human Torch and The Thing would come out at the same point
    total.
    As for how Gurps does it's balancing, I can think of 4 things ST
    does, Lifting, HP, Throwing capacity and damage. So for strait
    balance with no other considerations I'd expect a blaster power to
    cost 25% of ST cost per die of damage with modifications for range.
    However, I'd probably base it on Swing damage, because although a
    punch is a comon atack by a brick so too are swung weapons like Thor's
    hammer, Herculese mace, uprooted trees/lamp posts and cars used as
    clubs, also Swung damage is the highest damage for any weapon that
    increases reach and blaster atacks are a means to hit targets at
    range. So IIRC (I can't acess Gurps Lite from work but can post here
    on break) swing is aproximately 5 levels or 50 points per die leaving
    a balanced blaster ability at 12.5 pts per die. The fact that the
    designers have put it at only 5 points per die may have several
    reasons: 1) They didn't realy try to point balance it against ST they
    just went with something that looked good. 2) They considered damage
    a less important aspect of striength and weighted the cost acordingly.
    3) They were considering other uses for ST that didn't get mentioned
    in Gurps Lite and are escaping me at the moment. 4)Ranged atacks
    can't hit targets as far away as you could throw for similar damage
    spending the points on ST so they reduced cost of ranged atack powers
    acordingly. What is the range per power level after all?
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    vitruvian@globalfrequency.org (Vitruvian) wrote in message news:<700af493.0407190523.9bbe439@posting.google.com>...
    > korinNOduvalSPAM@yahoo.it (Korin Duval) wrote in message news:<40fb1a49.3939328@powernews.libero.it>...
    > > On 16 Jul 2004 17:06:49 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > [...]
    > > > To me the bigger problem is that ST high enough for characters like
    > > >the Hulk and Thing cost what some players consider unweildy amount of
    > > >points. The Hulks ST would start at 345 costing 3450 points and the
    > > >Thing would require 317 costing 3170 points. Add in DR and other
    > > >abilities and your in the 4000+ point range.
    > >
    > > Are you sure you should really figure their STR level by using the
    > > maximum EFFORTLESS lift value?
    > >
    > > Shouldn't you use the "extra effort" value?
    > > I mean, under 3rd Ed, lots of STR means lots of Fatigue, and spending
    > > 1 Fatigue out of 50, 80 or 100 doesn't mean "he's tired".
    > >
    > > Korin Duval
    >
    > The old 'extra effort' table is already incorporated into strength in
    > 4e, since ST is now specifically quadratic - lifting ability is
    > figured according to the square of ST. Everybody gets a Basic Lift
    > (BL) of ST times ST over 5; this represents your No Encumbrance level
    > and how much you can easily lift in one hand in one second. Max
    > two-handed lift (unsure if dead lift or press) is 8 times BL. So, ST
    > 300 gives a BL of 90,000/5 = 18,000 lbs, and max lift of about 72
    > tons. Unfortunately, ST 300, absent any special 'Super ST' Advantage,
    > costs 290 x 10 = 2900 character points on creation.

    There is also the little fact that Lite didn't seem to incorperate any
    rules for using extra effort. Also now with Fatuige = HT and HP = ST
    there's no reason to assume a brick would have superhuman levels of
    fatigue at all.
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    On 19 Jul 2004 12:05:12 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    wrote:

    >I was refering more to the fact that comic book teams tend to have
    >characters of widely varying power levels therfore there's no point in
    >asuming that they would balance in point value when converted to a
    >game. Even if you did balance Blasters VS Bricks it's still unlikely
    >that The Human Torch and The Thing would come out at the same point
    >total.

    Comics are full of tropes that generally work poorly in games. That's
    one of them (and yes, I know it works for some people; that doesn't
    change my opinion in general).
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    On 19 Jul 2004 12:12:52 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    wrote:

    [...]
    >There is also the little fact that Lite didn't seem to incorperate any
    >rules for using extra effort.

    That was the point in my first intervention.
    I suppose Basic Set 4th Ed. will have "Extra effort" rules.

    I mean, heroes who cannot squeeze out their maximum while sweating and
    grinning... Well, they wouldn't be heroes to love! ^__________^;

    >Also now with Fatuige = HT and HP = ST
    >there's no reason to assume a brick would have superhuman levels of
    >fatigue at all.

    Yes, of course.

    Korin Duval

    --

    "Truth requires a great amount of courage;
    Fiction requires a great amount of maturity."
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    On 19 Jul 2004 12:05:12 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    carved upon a tablet of ether:

    > So IIRC (I can't acess Gurps Lite from work but can post here
    > on break) swing is aproximately 5 levels or 50 points per die leaving
    > a balanced blaster ability at 12.5 pts per die.

    Actually it's 4 levels per die of swing damage, or 40 points. Thrust
    is double that.

    --
    Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    "Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
    should be free."
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps,rec.games.frp.super-heroes (More info?)

    Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:<3apof0174rkmk01k4s0v3mck1j0iljvuqv@4ax.com>...
    > On 19 Jul 2004 12:05:12 -0700, rbrown@myriad.com (Richard Brown)
    > carved upon a tablet of ether:
    >
    > > So IIRC (I can't acess Gurps Lite from work but can post here
    > > on break) swing is aproximately 5 levels or 50 points per die leaving
    > > a balanced blaster ability at 12.5 pts per die.
    >
    > Actually it's 4 levels per die of swing damage, or 40 points. Thrust
    > is double that.

    Working out to 10 points per die of damage for swing if you asume
    ability to do damage is worth 25% of the value of ST. Pluss you have
    all the reasons I mentioned above that the game designers might have
    chosen to further reduce the point value and a couple of other points
    that occured to me over night. 1) you can already do some damage,
    even at range with thrown objects for zero points with ST. 2) Skills
    Like Brawling and Throwing are IIRC easy skills and even if you don't
    have them you can hit someone on a simple DX roll but in 3rd ed atack
    powers were very hard skills (are they still or did this change?)
    making atacks with powers harder to improve. 3) damage from ST can be
    improved and even changed in type (crushing to cutting for instance)
    by using a weapon, but an atack power is stuck with crushing damage
    unless you spend extra points for an enhancement. So perhaps they
    have balanced atack powers with ST and they just consider the power to
    have a boat load of limitaions compared to ST.
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