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Hard drives

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July 5, 2005 6:09:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I know this is going to end up being slightly off topic in here, but part of
the question(s) do relate to computers and I am hoping someone mature can
either
offer help and advice or offer a sensible re-direction for the question.
(apologies for cross-posting too)

I am hoping that there is an engineer out there with knowledge of DVD
recorders (the boxes which are replacing VCR's) and computer hardware.

I am looking for a more reliable way to secure my video collection as video
deteriorates and I have heard DVD is not long-term reliable. This is where
the hard drives come in to the equation.

I am told that the hard drives used are the same as those in desktop PC's
but that has yet to be confirmed by a reliable source. However, assuming
that it is the case I am wondering if they can be connected to a PC too.
I have heard a rumor about windows media edition being able to store direct
video, but I have no idea as to the quality.

The main question I am driving at is whether the hard drives used in these
machines are the same as for PC's.

Here's why I am asking...

I have had several video recorders which have only lasted a year, and want
to get something that is going to last long-term. ...well a bit longer
anyway.

I am quite conversant in computers - being able to build from scratch and
programming, and use a piece of software called Norton Ghost to take an
image of a PC hard drive immediately on purchase so that in the event of a
hard drive failure - I can quickly replace the drive with a new one and
reinstate the original operating system on it.

I know PC drives use different filesystems such as Ext2, Fat16, Fat32, NTFS

My questions are:
a) are the hard drives the same as in computers? (ie the desktop pc's - not
laptops)
b) can they be imaged on purchase by a PC so that I can replace and
reinitialise them myself?
c) can they be removed and connected to a PC so that favourite programs can
be moved to another drive?
d) Is it feasible that one-day the hard drives in the DVD recorders will be
in a shuttle so that recording to a DVD is not actually required for
long-term storage? (given that I am told DVD media has a lifespan of 20
years)
e) What is my best option for long-term reliability & storage of video.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

More about : hard drives

Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

VCR tapes break down.

Hard drive platters and motors wear out.

DVD media "seems" to be the most durable of the media for now. You should
make two copies of each of your "video collection". One will become your
DVD master disk. From this master, you can then generate multiple copies
which you would use day to day.

There still is not a "forever" media.


"anon" <ngr@tdrd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D ae0rn$vn3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I know this is going to end up being slightly off topic in here, but part
>of
> the question(s) do relate to computers and I am hoping someone mature can
> either
> offer help and advice or offer a sensible re-direction for the question.
> (apologies for cross-posting too)
>
> I am hoping that there is an engineer out there with knowledge of DVD
> recorders (the boxes which are replacing VCR's) and computer hardware.
>
> I am looking for a more reliable way to secure my video collection as
> video
> deteriorates and I have heard DVD is not long-term reliable. This is where
> the hard drives come in to the equation.
>
> I am told that the hard drives used are the same as those in desktop PC's
> but that has yet to be confirmed by a reliable source. However, assuming
> that it is the case I am wondering if they can be connected to a PC too.
> I have heard a rumor about windows media edition being able to store
> direct
> video, but I have no idea as to the quality.
>
> The main question I am driving at is whether the hard drives used in these
> machines are the same as for PC's.
>
> Here's why I am asking...
>
> I have had several video recorders which have only lasted a year, and want
> to get something that is going to last long-term. ...well a bit longer
> anyway.
>
> I am quite conversant in computers - being able to build from scratch and
> programming, and use a piece of software called Norton Ghost to take an
> image of a PC hard drive immediately on purchase so that in the event of a
> hard drive failure - I can quickly replace the drive with a new one and
> reinstate the original operating system on it.
>
> I know PC drives use different filesystems such as Ext2, Fat16, Fat32,
> NTFS
>
> My questions are:
> a) are the hard drives the same as in computers? (ie the desktop pc's -
> not
> laptops)
> b) can they be imaged on purchase by a PC so that I can replace and
> reinitialise them myself?
> c) can they be removed and connected to a PC so that favourite programs
> can
> be moved to another drive?
> d) Is it feasible that one-day the hard drives in the DVD recorders will
> be
> in a shuttle so that recording to a DVD is not actually required for
> long-term storage? (given that I am told DVD media has a lifespan of 20
> years)
> e) What is my best option for long-term reliability & storage of video.
>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"anon" <ngr@tdrd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D ae0rn$vn3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I know this is going to end up being slightly off topic in here, but part
>of
> the question(s) do relate to computers and I am hoping someone mature can
> either
> offer help and advice or offer a sensible re-direction for the question.
> (apologies for cross-posting too)
>
> I am hoping that there is an engineer out there with knowledge of DVD
> recorders (the boxes which are replacing VCR's) and computer hardware.
>
> I am looking for a more reliable way to secure my video collection as
> video
> deteriorates and I have heard DVD is not long-term reliable. This is where
> the hard drives come in to the equation.
>
> I am told that the hard drives used are the same as those in desktop PC's
> but that has yet to be confirmed by a reliable source. However, assuming
> that it is the case I am wondering if they can be connected to a PC too.
> I have heard a rumor about windows media edition being able to store
> direct
> video, but I have no idea as to the quality.
>
> The main question I am driving at is whether the hard drives used in these
> machines are the same as for PC's.
>
> Here's why I am asking...
>
> I have had several video recorders which have only lasted a year, and want
> to get something that is going to last long-term. ...well a bit longer
> anyway.
>
> I am quite conversant in computers - being able to build from scratch and
> programming, and use a piece of software called Norton Ghost to take an
> image of a PC hard drive immediately on purchase so that in the event of a
> hard drive failure - I can quickly replace the drive with a new one and
> reinstate the original operating system on it.
>
> I know PC drives use different filesystems such as Ext2, Fat16, Fat32,
> NTFS
>
> My questions are:
> a) are the hard drives the same as in computers? (ie the desktop pc's -
> not
> laptops)

Probably

> b) can they be imaged on purchase by a PC so that I can replace and
> reinitialise them myself?

Maybe. They may locked similar to X-Box drives but this can be worked
around.

> c) can they be removed and connected to a PC so that favourite programs
> can
> be moved to another drive?

See answer to last question.

> d) Is it feasible that one-day the hard drives in the DVD recorders will
> be
> in a shuttle so that recording to a DVD is not actually required for
> long-term storage? (given that I am told DVD media has a lifespan of 20
> years)

Yes, it's feasable. Is it likely? Hard to guess.

> e) What is my best option for long-term reliability & storage of video.

Right now archival quality DVDs. For long term archives you need a plan to
assess the current state of the media and possibly change to a new media
every five years or so. Redundant copies are also a good idea. I have a
large digital image collection. It is always stored on at least two separate
hard drives in two separate computers with two DVD backups. The DVD backups
are replaced at least once a year. Incremental backups of new images are
stored on DVD or CD.

Kerry

>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:09:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Unfortunately, almost all forms of data storage have potential for loss.

CD/DVD disks have questionable life cycles and are always subject
to physical damage that can render them useless. Tape and other
magnetic media has all sorts of possible ways to become damaged.
Using those, you'll always want to have duplicates to raise the chances
of recovery. The more copies you have, the higher the probability
of being protected. For personal finance, etc I actually recommend
that people make "Paper" copies and store in a Bank Lock box. For
Digital data storage I recommend that people store a copy on a USB
Thumb drive and put in their lock box. Thumb drives supposedly are
good for around 10-Years. Most standard safety deposit boxes aren't
wide enough to store CD/DVD disks. (Unless you use those small
form-factor disks).

The Digital age is good in many ways - However, people are adopting
the technology and are not aware of or considering the long term issues
involved. Just watch this newsgroup for postings on lost pictures, music
and other data that vanishes when the drive crashes.

It seems like a whole untapped market, long term - permanent data
storage and recovery.

"Yves Leclerc" <yleclercNOSPAM@maysys.com> wrote in message
news:%23Jc4EOXgFHA.1444@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> VCR tapes break down.
>
> Hard drive platters and motors wear out.
>
> DVD media "seems" to be the most durable of the media for now. You
> should make two copies of each of your "video collection". One will
> become your DVD master disk. From this master, you can then generate
> multiple copies which you would use day to day.
>
> There still is not a "forever" media.
>
>
> "anon" <ngr@tdrd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D ae0rn$vn3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>I know this is going to end up being slightly off topic in here, but part
>>of
>> the question(s) do relate to computers and I am hoping someone mature can
>> either
>> offer help and advice or offer a sensible re-direction for the question.
>> (apologies for cross-posting too)
>>
>> I am hoping that there is an engineer out there with knowledge of DVD
>> recorders (the boxes which are replacing VCR's) and computer hardware.
>>
>> I am looking for a more reliable way to secure my video collection as
>> video
>> deteriorates and I have heard DVD is not long-term reliable. This is
>> where
>> the hard drives come in to the equation.
>>
>> I am told that the hard drives used are the same as those in desktop PC's
>> but that has yet to be confirmed by a reliable source. However, assuming
>> that it is the case I am wondering if they can be connected to a PC too.
>> I have heard a rumor about windows media edition being able to store
>> direct
>> video, but I have no idea as to the quality.
>>
>> The main question I am driving at is whether the hard drives used in
>> these
>> machines are the same as for PC's.
>>
>> Here's why I am asking...
>>
>> I have had several video recorders which have only lasted a year, and
>> want
>> to get something that is going to last long-term. ...well a bit longer
>> anyway.
>>
>> I am quite conversant in computers - being able to build from scratch and
>> programming, and use a piece of software called Norton Ghost to take an
>> image of a PC hard drive immediately on purchase so that in the event of
>> a
>> hard drive failure - I can quickly replace the drive with a new one and
>> reinstate the original operating system on it.
>>
>> I know PC drives use different filesystems such as Ext2, Fat16, Fat32,
>> NTFS
>>
>> My questions are:
>> a) are the hard drives the same as in computers? (ie the desktop pc's -
>> not
>> laptops)
>> b) can they be imaged on purchase by a PC so that I can replace and
>> reinitialise them myself?
>> c) can they be removed and connected to a PC so that favourite programs
>> can
>> be moved to another drive?
>> d) Is it feasible that one-day the hard drives in the DVD recorders will
>> be
>> in a shuttle so that recording to a DVD is not actually required for
>> long-term storage? (given that I am told DVD media has a lifespan of 20
>> years)
>> e) What is my best option for long-term reliability & storage of video.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 7:16:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

From his spyware and virus infected Windoze box, anon had this to say:

> I know this is going to end up being slightly off topic in here, but part
> of the question(s) do relate to computers and I am hoping someone mature
> can either
> offer help and advice or offer a sensible re-direction for the question.
> (apologies for cross-posting too)
>
> I am hoping that there is an engineer out there with knowledge of DVD
> recorders (the boxes which are replacing VCR's) and computer hardware.
>
> I am looking for a more reliable way to secure my video collection as
> video deteriorates and I have heard DVD is not long-term reliable. This is
> where the hard drives come in to the equation.
>
> I am told that the hard drives used are the same as those in desktop PC's
> but that has yet to be confirmed by a reliable source. However, assuming
> that it is the case I am wondering if they can be connected to a PC too.
> I have heard a rumor about windows media edition being able to store
> direct video, but I have no idea as to the quality.
>
> The main question I am driving at is whether the hard drives used in these
> machines are the same as for PC's.
>
> Here's why I am asking...
>
> I have had several video recorders which have only lasted a year, and want
> to get something that is going to last long-term. ...well a bit longer
> anyway.
>
> I am quite conversant in computers - being able to build from scratch and
> programming, and use a piece of software called Norton Ghost to take an
> image of a PC hard drive immediately on purchase so that in the event of a
> hard drive failure - I can quickly replace the drive with a new one and
> reinstate the original operating system on it.
>
> I know PC drives use different filesystems such as Ext2, Fat16, Fat32,
> NTFS
>
> My questions are:
> a) are the hard drives the same as in computers? (ie the desktop pc's -
> not laptops)

Yes

> b) can they be imaged on purchase by a PC so that I can replace and
> reinitialise them myself?

Maybe. I'm sure there are hacks to do this type of thing. But different
manufacturers of course use different systems. Tivo is one system that
comes to mind that has been well hacked as it is such a popular device.

> c) can they be removed and connected to a PC so that favourite programs
> can be moved to another drive?

See above. Many of these, such as the Tivo, run on embedded Linux. You'd
need to be running an OS capable of reading Linux formatted disks.

> d) Is it feasible that one-day the hard drives in the DVD recorders will
> be in a shuttle so that recording to a DVD is not actually required for
> long-term storage? (given that I am told DVD media has a lifespan of 20
> years)

Possibly, but this is just speculation. The problem with all this technology
is that it is changing so quickly. 20 years is a l-o-n-g time and no matter
how you stored your video, you'd probably find you'll be needing to
transfer to new media so that you can continue to access the data. Can you
access data on an 8" floppy disk that we used to use? Or even a 5.25"
floppy disk? The data may still be on those disks, but try and find the
disk drives that'll read them.

More than likely these video recording devices will be hooked up into home
networks, allowing you to move the data to wherever you want onto whatever
media you have.


> e) What is my best option for long-term reliability & storage of video.
>

At this point in time, DVD or digital tape. Both of which will have a
life-time that will exceed your ability to read it down the road.

> Thanks in advance for any feedback.


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