Windows Frotz 2002 1.05 released

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive,
from where it's available for download:
http://mirror.ifarchive.org/if-archive/infocom/interpreters/frotz/WindowsFrotz2002.zip

The source code is also available from the same directory. It should
also be available from the Archive mirrors in the next few days.

This is only a minor update, correcting a few problems:

* Changing the input language with Windows' Language Bar (part of
Advanced Text Services) now works. This lets you switch the input
language for the interpreter from the system default, so that, for
example, you can input Cyrillic text into a Russian game running
under an English version of Windows.

* A crash when using the Options dialog after the game has finished
has been fixed.

* Added some true colour icons drawn by Javier San José.

David

 

[samwyse]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On or about 7/11/2004 5:44 AM, David Kinder did proclaim:
> I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive,
[...]
> This is only a minor update, correcting a few problems:
>
> * Changing the input language with Windows' Language Bar (part of
> Advanced Text Services) now works. This lets you switch the input
> language for the interpreter from the system default, so that, for
> example, you can input Cyrillic text into a Russian game running
> under an English version of Windows.

As the reporter of this particular problem, allow me to say "Thanks!"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Kinder" <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote in message
news:ccr5lv$p24$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive,
> from where it's available for download:
>
http://mirror.ifarchive.org/if-archive/infocom/interpreters/frotz/WindowsFrotz2002.zip
>
> The source code is also available from the same directory. It should
> also be available from the Archive mirrors in the next few days.
>
> This is only a minor update, correcting a few problems:
>
> * Changing the input language with Windows' Language Bar (part of
> Advanced Text Services) now works. This lets you switch the input
> language for the interpreter from the system default, so that, for
> example, you can input Cyrillic text into a Russian game running
> under an English version of Windows.
>
> * A crash when using the Options dialog after the game has finished
> has been fixed.
>
> * Added some true colour icons drawn by Javier San José.
>
> David
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Kinder" <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote in message
news:ccr5lv$p24$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive,


Does it support screen reading software for the blind yet? Because I
remember it being completely blank, which is why I currently use Frotz
revision 56 to play Inform games in windows. Does that work yet? And if not,
do you have any plans (or the know-how) to get this to work?

_____

Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu ffor President!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

David Kinder wrote:
> I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive [...]

Shouldn't that be "Windows Frotz 2002 Version 2004.01.0005"?

-- Gunther

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:44:15 +0000 (UTC), "David Kinder"
<d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> tried to confuse everyone with
this message:

>I've uploaded Windows Frotz 2002 version 1.05 to the IF-Archive,

Your interpreter is very nice, however I noticed a problem with it. I
was testing it on several games and found that you're unable to use
numeric keypad in zRogue. Whenever I tried to push a numpad key the game
told me "unknown command". It was working ok under WinFrotz. I decided
to test this strange behaviour and came up with the following great text
adventure:

[Main i;
@read_char 1 0 0 i;
print i;
];

(too bad I can't enter it into IF Comp 2004)

This results (after pressing "1" numpad key) into 49 in WinFrotz and 146
in Windows Frotz 2002. I don't have Dos Frotz so I haven't tested it
there. As @read_char is quite a common opcode this inconsistency may
lead to some bad interpreter-dependant bugs.

(I would've sent an e-mail but I'm unable to figure it out from the
header and it's not anywhere in the program itself.)

--
|Here you can see, how awful I'm at Quake speedrunning| Grue(at)mail.ru|
|E1M1 :29 E1M5 :19 E2M1 :10 E3M2 :22 E4M5 :15,===""================;
|E1M2 :36 E1M6 :11 E2M3 :27 E4M1 :30 E4M6 :24|->grue3.tripod.com<--|
|E1M3_:43__E1M7_:14__E3M1_:43__E4M2_:52__END__:37;================[4*72]

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

> Does it support screen reading software for the blind yet?

No. I've tried playing around with the Microsoft Accessibility interfaces,
but none of them produced anything from screen readers.

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

> Shouldn't that be "Windows Frotz 2002 Version 2004.01.0005"?

Don't. I heartily regret putting the year in the name. Oh well,
too late now

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> This results (after pressing "1" numpad key) into 49 in WinFrotz and 146
> in Windows Frotz 2002. I don't have Dos Frotz so I haven't tested it
> there. As @read_char is quite a common opcode this inconsistency may
> lead to some bad interpreter-dependant bugs.

WF2002 is right here: the Z-Machine specification says that interpreters
should return specific keycodes for the numeric keypad, so that games can
distinguish between a numeric keypad key and an ordinary numeric key. It's
up to the game to support the numeric keypad values.

David

> (I would've sent an e-mail but I'm unable to figure it out from the
> header and it's not anywhere in the program itself.)

It's in the help file, or remove the "spamnothankyou" bit from the reply
address to this.

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:02:38 +0000 (UTC), "David Kinder"
<d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> tried to confuse everyone with
this message:

>Timofei Shatrov wrote:
>> This results (after pressing "1" numpad key) into 49 in WinFrotz and 146
>> in Windows Frotz 2002. I don't have Dos Frotz so I haven't tested it
>> there. As @read_char is quite a common opcode this inconsistency may
>> lead to some bad interpreter-dependant bugs.
>
>WF2002 is right here: the Z-Machine specification says that interpreters
>should return specific keycodes for the numeric keypad, so that games can
>distinguish between a numeric keypad key and an ordinary numeric key. It's
>up to the game to support the numeric keypad values.

I wonder how many interpreters do work this way. Could someone who has
access to interpreters for Linux/DOS/Mac etc. test this? You need to
compile this Inform program:
[Main i;
@read_char 1 0 0 i;
print i;
@read_char 1 0 0 i;
];
Then run it and press "1" on numeric keypad. What is the resulting
value? 49, 146 or something else?

--
|Here you can see, how awful I'm at Quake speedrunning| Grue(at)mail.ru|
|E1M1 :29 E1M5 :19 E2M1 :10 E3M2 :22 E4M5 :15,===""================;
|E1M2 :36 E1M6 :11 E2M3 :27 E4M1 :30 E4M6 :24|->grue3.tripod.com<--|
|E1M3_:43__E1M7_:14__E3M1_:43__E4M2_:52__END__:37;================[4*72]

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Kinder" <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote in message news:<cd1igb$cts$1@sparta.btinternet.com>...
> > Does it support screen reading software for the blind yet?
>
> No. I've tried playing around with the Microsoft Accessibility interfaces,
> but none of them produced anything from screen readers.
>
> David

pardon me if I am confused and this is the same thing, but have you
considered making frotz itself speak, the way wingit and hugo do with
their speach options? I'm not sure how easy or dificult it would be
to do something simular with winfrotz, or if that is what you meant by
playing with microsoft's accessability.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

grue@mail.ru (Timofei Shatrov) wrote in
news:40f50b6d.21293381@news.individual.net:

> I wonder how many interpreters do work this way. Could someone who has
> access to interpreters for Linux/DOS/Mac etc. test this? You need to
> compile this Inform program:
> [Main i;
> @read_char 1 0 0 i;
> print i;
> @read_char 1 0 0 i;
>];
> Then run it and press "1" on numeric keypad. What is the resulting
> value? 49, 146 or something else?

Being bored as I was, I decided to test this on a few DOS interpreters
and the like. The results:

WinFrotz: 49
WinFrotz 2002: 146
DJGPP Frotz: 146
Gnusto: 49
Nitfol: 49
DZip: 49


--
Keep on tranglin.
www.planetsomething.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In rec.arts.int-fiction aerospace1028 <aerospace1028@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "David Kinder" <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote in message news:<cd1igb$cts$1@sparta.btinternet.com>...
>> > Does it support screen reading software for the blind yet?
>>
>> No. I've tried playing around with the Microsoft Accessibility interfaces,
>> but none of them produced anything from screen readers.
>>
>> David

> pardon me if I am confused and this is the same thing, but have you
> considered making frotz itself speak, the way wingit and hugo do with
> their speach options? I'm not sure how easy or dificult it would be
> to do something simular with winfrotz, or if that is what you meant by
> playing with microsoft's accessability.

I was contracted a couple years ago to add voice input AND output to
Frotz. I got most of the research done and then the client pulled out in
violation of our contract and stiffed me for several thousand dollars.
Since then I haven't had any motivation to complete the work.


--
David Griffith
dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In rec.arts.int-fiction David Kinder <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote:
>> Shouldn't that be "Windows Frotz 2002 Version 2004.01.0005"?

> Don't. I heartily regret putting the year in the name. Oh well,
> too late now

Err, why not just call it WinFrotz, picking the next integral version
number, and be done with it?


--
David Griffith
dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

> pardon me if I am confused and this is the same thing, but have you
> considered making frotz itself speak, the way wingit and hugo do with
> their speach options?

It's not quite the same thing. The Windows Glk based apps like WinGlulxe,
WinGit and so on speak their text directly through a Microsoft API. What
seems to be more popularly required is for programs to interact with the
user's screen reader, and let it do the talking. Microsoft's Accessibility
APIs should make it easier to expose the text being displayed to such
programs. If it worked ...

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

dgriffi@cs.csbuak.edu wrote:
> In rec.arts.int-fiction David Kinder <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote:
>
>>>Shouldn't that be "Windows Frotz 2002 Version 2004.01.0005"?
>
>
>>Don't. I heartily regret putting the year in the name. Oh well,
>>too late now
>
>
> Err, why not just call it WinFrotz, picking the next integral version
> number, and be done with it?
>
>

I don't know, I kind of like the 2002... It's like the 2000 in
foobar2000, it gives a little something...

Anyway, what's next? Windows Frotz Me? Windows Frotz XP?

 

[samwyse]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On or about 7/13/2004 4:02 PM, David Kinder did proclaim:
> Timofei Shatrov wrote:
>
>>This results (after pressing "1" numpad key) into 49 in WinFrotz and 146
>>in Windows Frotz 2002. I don't have Dos Frotz so I haven't tested it
>>there. As @read_char is quite a common opcode this inconsistency may
>>lead to some bad interpreter-dependant bugs.
>
> WF2002 is right here: the Z-Machine specification says that interpreters
> should return specific keycodes for the numeric keypad, so that games can
> distinguish between a numeric keypad key and an ordinary numeric key. It's
> up to the game to support the numeric keypad values.

A couple of questions.

First, where is the 146 coming from? It doesn't seem related to 49 in
any obvious way. Are the numeric keypad values consecutive for 0 through 9?

Second, how dos a programmer know for any given hardware architecture
what values the keypad's 1 key returns, i.e. does the keypad on a Mac,
Sparc, or Amiga return 146 as well?

Third, could the specs be providing bad advice in this case? Every app
I've seen outside of hardware diagnostics uses the "normal" Ascii values
when Num Lock is turned on, and special values when it's off (so you can
access the arrow keys). I know people who reach for the keypad to enter
even short numbers, and would be surprised by the described behavior.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

samwyse wrote:
> First, where is the 146 coming from? It doesn't seem related to 49 in
> any obvious way. Are the numeric keypad values consecutive for 0
> through 9?

The definition of the Z machine specifies 145-154 for keypad 0-9,
immediately following 133-144 for F1-F12. and 129-132 for up, down,
left, and right arrows.

> Second, how dos a programmer know for any given hardware architecture
> what values the keypad's 1 key returns, i.e. does the keypad on a Mac,
> Sparc, or Amiga return 146 as well?

It does on a correctly implemented Z machine.

> Third, could the specs be providing bad advice in this case? Every app
> I've seen outside of hardware diagnostics uses the "normal" Ascii values
> when Num Lock is turned on, and special values when it's off (so you can
> access the arrow keys). I know people who reach for the keypad to enter
> even short numbers, and would be surprised by the described behavior.

The issue is more complicated than you seem to think it. The keypad
keys can be distinguished from the QWERTY numerics in DOS or Windows,
but need not be; it depends on what value you look at. But since the Z
machine gives only a single 1-byte input value per key, it /must/ make
the distinction, and this has been the standard, defined behavior of the
Z machine for many years.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

samwyse wrote:

> Every app
> I've seen outside of hardware diagnostics uses the "normal" Ascii values
> when Num Lock is turned on,

most if not all modern games see the difference... the keyboard config
utilities recognize KP_INS instead of 0 and so on.

ciao
S