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[SPAG] Make your voice heard!

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Anonymous
August 20, 2004 6:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

You're not just a faceless nobody. You're not just a spinning gear in
somebody else's heartless clockwork. No! You have a mind and a soul, a
self that is authentic and unique. Your perspective is a gift that you
can bestow on the world, something nobody else can give.

Celebrate the power of your inimitable point of view and make your voice
heard by writing a review for SPAG. Burgeoning bevies of IF games are
waiting for you to articulate your reactions, and SPAG's readers are
anticipating, hoping, waiting to know what you think about that game you
just played. Don't deny them your gift!

The deadline for issue #38 is September 5th.

--
Paul O'Brian obrian@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
Make your voice heard by contributing a review to issue #38 of SPAG!
The deadline for this issue is September 5th, 2004.

More about : spag make voice heard

Anonymous
August 20, 2004 6:34:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top ten list of
games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a while
now.

--

_____

Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu for president!
"Paul O'Brian" <obrian@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote in message
news:p ine.GSO.4.58.0408201433180.5295@ucsu.colorado.edu...
> You're not just a faceless nobody. You're not just a spinning gear in
> somebody else's heartless clockwork. No! You have a mind and a soul, a
> self that is authentic and unique. Your perspective is a gift that you
> can bestow on the world, something nobody else can give.
>
> Celebrate the power of your inimitable point of view and make your voice
> heard by writing a review for SPAG. Burgeoning bevies of IF games are
> waiting for you to articulate your reactions, and SPAG's readers are
> anticipating, hoping, waiting to know what you think about that game you
> just played. Don't deny them your gift!
>
> The deadline for issue #38 is September 5th.
>
> --
> Paul O'Brian obrian@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
> Make your voice heard by contributing a review to issue #38 of SPAG!
> The deadline for this issue is September 5th, 2004.
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 3:03:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10icros12bjjc5d@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top ten list
of
> games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a while
> now.
>

1. Curse of the Dragon Shrine
2. Dead Reckoning
3. 1893: A World's Fair Mystery
4. Heist
5. IF Art Show 2004 games (any, some, or all!)
6. Max Blaster and Doris de Lightning Against the Parrot Creatures of Venus
7. Narcolepsy
8. Necrotic Drift
9. Return To Ditch Day
10. Unease
Related resources
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 3:23:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Whyld" <me@dwhyld.plus.com> wrote in message news:<41267548$0$93476$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>...
> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10icros12bjjc5d@corp.supernews.com...
> > I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top ten list
> of
> > games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a while
> > now.
> >
>
> 1. Curse of the Dragon Shrine
> 2. Dead Reckoning
> 3. 1893: A World's Fair Mystery
> 4. Heist
> 5. IF Art Show 2004 games (any, some, or all!)
> 6. Max Blaster and Doris de Lightning Against the Parrot Creatures of Venus
> 7. Narcolepsy
> 8. Necrotic Drift
> 9. Return To Ditch Day
> 10. Unease

Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
serious review of the full version someday.
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 6:30:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Whyld" <me@dwhyld.plus.com> wrote in message news:<41267548$0$93476$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>...
> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10icros12bjjc5d@corp.supernews.com...
> > I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top ten list
> of
> > games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a while
> > now.
> >
>
> 1. Curse of the Dragon Shrine
> 2. Dead Reckoning
> 3. 1893: A World's Fair Mystery
> 4. Heist
> 5. IF Art Show 2004 games (any, some, or all!)
> 6. Max Blaster and Doris de Lightning Against the Parrot Creatures of Venus
> 7. Narcolepsy
> 8. Necrotic Drift
> 9. Return To Ditch Day
> 10. Unease

Does anyone know who the author of Dead Reckoning (no. 2) is?
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 7:05:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Bob_Woodward <soenke_k@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote...
>>> I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top
>>> ten list of
>>> games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a
>>> while now.
>>>
[snip list]
>
> Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
> serious review of the full version someday.

I'm not sure where the games on the list come from, but if it were open to
debate, I would disagree that P:FL "should" be on the list. Some reviews:

http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Pentari/Pentari.sh... gives it an A.
http://www.pcgameworld.com/game.php/id/1590/Pentari:_Fi... uses two
exclamation points.

My serious review of the Demo version is written more for today's IF
community, unlike the above reviews:
http://www.strangebreezes.com/if/reviews/pentaridemo.ht...

The 16 people who voted on it at www.ifratings.com give it an average of
1.5:
http://www.carouselchain.com/if/index.php?searchtitle=p...
The comments on that site might be worth reading as a review.

Jess
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 12:27:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Jessica,

When you said "My serious review of the Demo version is written more
for today's IF community, unlike the above reviews" what, exactly, did
you mean?

Why does YOUR amateurish review (amateurish by your own admission on
your own website) nullify the reviews of TWO professional sources?

What's more sad is how you trumpet your review of a FIRST RELEASE DEMO
and say it is more authoritative than reviews made by people who
actually played the entire game right to the end. What were you
thinking, sweetheart?

Who appointed YOU the official spokesperson for the Interactive
Fiction community, anyway?

How can YOU speak for today's IF community for that matter?

My dear Jessica, I am the one who sets the tone and standards for
today's IF community.

Right now I am exhibiting Malinche titles at GenCon in Indianapolis.
Because of my efforts and my efforts alone, I am putting Interactive
Fiction in front of over 25,000 people.

I'm doing it again at DragonCon in Atlanta in two weeks where I will
present Interactive Fiction to another 25,000 people.

In October I am presenting Interactive Fiction to about 250,000 people
at the New York City Book Festival.

All in all, I will have put Interactive Fiction in front of over
400,000 people at the venues I attend this year alone.

I won't even bother to explore all the exposure I've generated through
front-page newspaper articles, radio interviews, my website, etc. etc.

What do YOU do for the IF community apart from being obnoxious and
manipulative?

With all of the people I've met out there, some startling observations
have been made.

When everybody OUTSIDE of these two newsgroups played BOFH it earned
rave reviews and has become a cult classic. In stark contrast, BOFH
rated somewhere towards the bottom of the list in IF Comp 2002. Isn't
it funny that THOUSANDS of people enjoy BOFH despite its low ranking
by just a few people? I think it's hysterical. I was signing
autographs today for people who thought it was so cool to meet the guy
who wrote BOFH.

I've come to the conclusion quite some time ago that these two
newsgroups and the websites that extend from them are some sort of
Bizarro world of inverse operations. (e.g. good is bad, evil is good,
dark is light, etc. etc.) No other theory explains how thousands upon
thousands of people OUTSIDE of the Bizarro world of these newsgroups
and related websites love my work and bless all things Malinche while
the very small population of Bizarro world holds the majority view
that my work is garbage.

Poor Mr. Panks has almost gone into seizures trying to convince all of
you his work is good. OUTSIDE of Bizaro world his works are quite
good. In the twisted little universe in here, his work is trash. The
poor man must be on the verge of a breakdown. I hope this message
reaches him in time.

A very elite club with a tiny membership can co-exist both in Bizarro
world and the real world and retain their sense of equilibrium. I
think they know who they are. <wink>

Here's a glimpse of the real world outside of the twisted, bizarre
world you and many others choose to live in.

When attendees sat down at my booth at GenCon and tried First Light,
the uninitiated were curious at trying something new. They walked
away converted with their new Malinche games in hand. They obviously
thought my games were good enough to pay for, especially when they can
spend their money at dozens of different booths offering every kind of
game imaginable.

When Infocom fans froze in front of my booth and saw that brand new
commercial IF is back on the market they were dumbfounded. A couple
of die-hard fans were looking for prayer mats to place in front of my
booth. No prayer mats could be found in the convention hall so they
proceeded to try out my games. A number of people clearly enjoyed
themselves as they made their way through First Light, Greystone and
Endgame. Seeing the packaged software, complete with feelies, sparked
them anew. Everyone was happy to have me autograph their games. They
left happy and content. Only good products can do that, darling.

Pentari: First Light was the biggest seller at the show. Greystone was
a very close second.

Obviously, First Light must be good if people played the full version
and then made a decision to purchase the game to take home away with
them.

I'm not going to operate in PanksMode and attempt to persuade you or
anyone else here that my work is good. I know my work is good. The
masses outside Bizarro world know this also. Like usual, my purpose
here is to present the facts and correct the horrendous inaccuracies.
Facts and truth are too powerful for the forces of chaos in Bizarro
World. You and the others of your kind are rendered powerless against
them.

Also as usual, I am not going to bother to check for responses. The
posts tend to be one sided and more than occasionally border on the
hysterical. I expect that to be doubly-true of anything you have to
say.

If Mister Woodward would care to make up his own mind about things, I
invite him to my website at http://www.malinche.net and let him judge
for himself. I extend that invitation to anyone with an open,
non-negative mind.

Everyone is invitied to visit http://www.malinche.net and take a look
around. Read all the testimonials and game reviews. Look at
everything. Try out the demos. And then decide for yourselves. Don't
let the forces of this Bizarro world hold sway over you.

Howard Sherman
Implementor
http://www.malinche.net
Live on location in Indianapolis











----- Original Message -----
From: "Jess Knoch" <jessicaknoch@mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SPAG] Make your voice heard!


> Bob_Woodward <soenke_k@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote...
> >>> I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top
> >>> ten list of
> >>> games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a
> >>> while now.
> >>>
> [snip list]
> >
> > Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
> > serious review of the full version someday.
>
> I'm not sure where the games on the list come from, but if it were open to
> debate, I would disagree that P:FL "should" be on the list. Some reviews:
>
> http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Pentari/Pentari.sh... gives it an A.
> http://www.pcgameworld.com/game.php/id/1590/Pentari:_Fi... uses two
> exclamation points.
>
> My serious review of the Demo version is written more for today's IF
> community, unlike the above reviews:
> http://www.strangebreezes.com/if/reviews/pentaridemo.ht...
>
> The 16 people who voted on it at www.ifratings.com give it an average of
> 1.5:
> http://www.carouselchain.com/if/index.php?searchtitle=p...
> The comments on that site might be worth reading as a review.
>
> Jess
>
>



>
> Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
> serious review of the full version someday.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 2:57:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Woodfish wrote:
> Does anyone know who the author of Dead Reckoning (no. 2) is?

It's by Nick Montfort (the English translation) and Andres
Viedma Pelaez (the Spanish original).

David
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 4:21:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.int-fiction.]
On 21 Aug 2004 14:30:35 -0700, Woodfish <driftersmonthly@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "David Whyld" <me@dwhyld.plus.com> wrote in message news:<41267548$0$93476$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>...
>> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:10icros12bjjc5d@corp.supernews.com...
>> > I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top ten list
>> of
>> > games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a while
>> > now.
>> >
>>
>> 1. Curse of the Dragon Shrine
>> 2. Dead Reckoning
>> 3. 1893: A World's Fair Mystery
>> 4. Heist
>> 5. IF Art Show 2004 games (any, some, or all!)
>> 6. Max Blaster and Doris de Lightning Against the Parrot Creatures of Venus
>> 7. Narcolepsy
>> 8. Necrotic Drift
>> 9. Return To Ditch Day
>> 10. Unease
>
> Does anyone know who the author of Dead Reckoning (no. 2) is?

There are two games by that name; one is a different translation of Olvido
Mortal (first translation Shattered Memory was disqualified from an IF
Comp); the other was an EOY game by David Whyld.

--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
tilford@ugcs.caltech.edu
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 5:27:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Jess Knoch" <jessicaknoch@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<2opkndFd02mpU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> Bob_Woodward <soenke_k@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "James Bond" <wildblinker007@hotmail.com> wrote...
> >>> I'm lazy and forgetful, what's the Dave Letterman (TM)-style top
> >>> ten list of
> >>> games that need to be reviewed? I've been meaning to do this for a
> >>> while now.
> >>>
> [snip list]
> >
> > Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
> > serious review of the full version someday.
>
> I'm not sure where the games on the list come from, but if it were open to
> debate, I would disagree that P:FL "should" be on the list. Some reviews:
>
> http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Pentari/Pentari.sh... gives it an A.
> http://www.pcgameworld.com/game.php/id/1590/Pentari:_Fi... uses two
> exclamation points.

I think the second of these is not strictly speaking a review (at
least, if you click on the "reviews" list in the left column, you get
an index that does not contain P:FL). It might be game information
based on a press release from Malinche, or someone's precis of the
game, or something, but I am not sure it was meant to be considered a
full review. I would also say that JA (*or* pcgameworld) having
reviewed something doesn't necessarily mean that that something should
not also be reviewed in SPAG: the two have different contributors and
only partly-overlapping readership. For that matter, a game having
received an IF-Review doesn't make it ineligible for SPAG's most
wanted list. The more reviews the better, really, and it doesn't hurt
to have them come from multiple perspectives on gaming, either.

There may, of course, be other reasons, and I suppose the fact that
the author of the review would have to spend $20-$30 first in order to
contribute to a nonpaying review zine is a legitimate concern.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 6:11:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard wrote:

> I am the one who sets the tone and standards for today's IF community.

> I was signing autographs today for people who thought it was so cool
> to meet the guy who wrote BOFH.

> I've come to the conclusion quite some time ago that these two
> newsgroups... are some sort of Bizarro world

> OUTSIDE of Bizaro world [Panks's] works are quite good.

> A couple of die-hard fans were looking for prayer mats to place in
> front of my booth.

> A number of people clearly enjoyed themselves as they made their way
> through First Light

> I know my work is good.

By the look of things, Greystone is one of those "implement your house"
games.

Stephen.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 11:00:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard@malinche.net (Howard Sherman) wrote in message news:<48c1f12f.0408211927.5006e542@posting.google.com>...
> Jessica,
>
> When you said "My serious review of the Demo version is written more
> for today's IF community, unlike the above reviews" what, exactly, did
> you mean?

I must be missing something. (It's been a long week at work, it's
bound to happen.) I'm not seeing anything in the newsgroup. Where
was this (apparently unfavorable) review posted?

Carolyn
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 1:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Kinder" <d.kinder@btinternetspamnothankyou.com> wrote in message
news:cg8k10$in5$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Woodfish wrote:
> > Does anyone know who the author of Dead Reckoning (no. 2) is?
>
> It's by Nick Montfort (the English translation) and Andres
> Viedma Pelaez (the Spanish original).
>
> David
>
>

Pity. I wrote a game called Dead Reckoning and I was kind of hoping it was
my version.

It might be a good idea in future to list the author's name alongside the
game so as to avoid confusion.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 1:55:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard Sherman wrote:
> Why does YOUR amateurish review (amateurish by your own admission on
> your own website) nullify the reviews of TWO professional sources?

Howard, darling, you're ranting. Stop it.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 2:21:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Ah, a post from Howard! I always look forward to these. Though I've
never understood while the wonderful writing he demonstrates in posts,
brilliantly pretending to be a pompous fool, is not reflected in his
games. Odd that ...

> My dear Jessica, I am the one who sets the tone and standards for
> today's IF community.

We're doomed! Doomed!

> Howard Sherman
> Implementor

This *always* cracks me up.

More seriously, what is it with people and critism? Why can some people
never cope with any negative reviews, and resort to assuming that it's
a conspiracy? Sheesh ...

David
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 4:14:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

After reading Howard's message, I have this suggestion for the rest of
us.

I have an idea. I'd like to suggest that if anyone's going to any sf/f
or comics con, to simply write up a 1-page flyer with prominent and
respected IF URLs, boldly use the words "INTERACTIVE FICTION", "TEXT
ADVENTURE GAMES", and "FREE", print off 200 copies, and leave them on
the flyer table.

-- David Welbourn
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 4:58:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Wow! what ranting!

8)

Thompp
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 5:04:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard@malinche.net (Howard Sherman) wrote in message news:<48c1f12f.0408211927.5006e542@posting.google.com>...

> When everybody OUTSIDE of these two newsgroups played BOFH it earned
> rave reviews and has become a cult classic. In stark contrast, BOFH
> rated somewhere towards the bottom of the list in IF Comp 2002. Isn't
> it funny that THOUSANDS of people enjoy BOFH despite its low ranking
> by just a few people? I think it's hysterical. I was signing
> autographs today for people who thought it was so cool to meet the guy
> who wrote BOFH.

I'm relatively new to this and don't quite understand why you seem so
aggressive (although I took the liberty to search google groups for
other threads about PFL, so I know some of the bachground). Anyway,
I'm very surprised that thousands of people enjoy BOFH more than other
works of IF. I've played it and honestly did not find it that
terrific. Partly because it was not my kind of humour (I didn't even
like the Seinfeld episode with Bizarro Jerry that much, although
otherwise I love the show), but mostly because I didn't get most of
the puzzles and had to use the walkthrough lots. There seemed also
some implementation missing. IMHO there clearly were lots of better
works in the 2002 competition. But then, I also never heard of BOFH
before.

But what I'd really like to know is if there are really thousands of
people that play IF. I really, really like that thought (although I
can't really believe it). Because if thousands of people liked BOFH,
they should also like the better works of IF. Is your assumption
reflected in download numbers from the IF-archive? Or do you have
another source?

> I've come to the conclusion quite some time ago that these two
> newsgroups and the websites that extend from them are some sort of
> Bizarro world of inverse operations. (e.g. good is bad, evil is good,
> dark is light, etc. etc.) No other theory explains how thousands upon
> thousands of people OUTSIDE of the Bizarro world of these newsgroups
> and related websites love my work and bless all things Malinche while
> the very small population of Bizarro world holds the majority view
> that my work is garbage.

That I really don't understand. Most people seem to like Varicella
(which I think is the best IF I ever played). Do you honestly think
it's bad? In that case I'd be very glad to stay in Bizarro.

> If Mister Woodward would care to make up his own mind about things, I
> invite him to my website at http://www.malinche.net and let him judge
> for himself. I extend that invitation to anyone with an open,
> non-negative mind.

As I said: I played BOFH and didn't like it very much. I would think
about buying PFL if I had the feeling it's worth it, that's why I
hoped for some reviews for it.

Bob

P.S.: I would like just to be called "Bob", because "Bob Woodward" is
clearly a pseudo (due to my imagined resamblance to young Robert
Redford).
August 22, 2004 6:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard@malinche.net (Howard Sherman) wrote in message news:<48c1f12f.0408211927.5006e542@posting.google.com>...
> Jessica,
>
> My dear Jessica, I am the one who sets the tone and standards for
> today's IF community.
>
Hey, everybody, it's Mr. IF himself!

Actually, posts by this guy are a nice entertainment break from the
[Inform] problem with parser etc....posts.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 7:21:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On 22 Aug 2004 07:00:40 -0700, Carolyn Magruder <carolynmagruder@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Howard@malinche.net (Howard Sherman) wrote in message news:<48c1f12f.0408211927.5006e542@posting.google.com>...
>> Jessica,
>>
>> When you said "My serious review of the Demo version is written more
>> for today's IF community, unlike the above reviews" what, exactly, did
>> you mean?
>
> I must be missing something. (It's been a long week at work, it's
> bound to happen.) I'm not seeing anything in the newsgroup. Where
> was this (apparently unfavorable) review posted?
>
> Carolyn

It was written some time ago and was on a website; Jessica recently posted
a link to it.


--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
tilford@ugcs.caltech.edu
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 7:21:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On 21 Aug 2004 20:27:04 -0700, Howard Sherman <Howard@malinche.net> wrote:
>
> When everybody OUTSIDE of these two newsgroups played BOFH it earned
> rave reviews and has become a cult classic. In stark contrast, BOFH
> rated somewhere towards the bottom of the list in IF Comp 2002. Isn't
> it funny that THOUSANDS of people enjoy BOFH despite its low ranking
> by just a few people? I think it's hysterical. I was signing
> autographs today for people who thought it was so cool to meet the guy
> who wrote BOFH.

I believe that, the more diverse a person's experiences, the harder that
person will be to impress.

For example, a person who has read twenty different fantasy series will
probably have a more critical response to a new series than a person for
whom that is his/her first series. The former will, knowingly or not, be
judging the new series against the other twenty; the latter won't have any
sort of baseline.

The people on rec*int-fiction have played a LOT of IF games, so of course
they will grade BOFH or Pentari very differently from a person who is
experiencing IF for the first time, or who has not been playing IF for 10
years.

Have there been any people who were introduced to IF through BOFH or
Pentari, found the IF archive, and looked back at BOFH / Pentari? I
think that such a person's opinions would be instructive.



--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
tilford@ugcs.caltech.edu
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 8:21:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.int-fiction.]
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:05:12 -0400, Jess Knoch <jessicaknoch@mindspring.com> wrote:

> The 16 people who voted on it at www.ifratings.com give it an average of
> 1.5:
> http://www.carouselchain.com/if/index.php?searchtitle=p...
> The comments on that site might be worth reading as a review.

The game reviewed on this link is a small prequel, not PFL.


--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
tilford@ugcs.caltech.edu
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:34:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Bob_Woodward"

> But what I'd really like to know is if there are really thousands of
> people that play IF. I really, really like that thought (although I
> can't really believe it). Because if thousands of people liked BOFH,
> they should also like the better works of IF. Is your assumption
> reflected in download numbers from the IF-archive? Or do you have
> another source?

Notice how there's one thing he's not boasting about: his sales figures.
With his aggressive marketing and his ego being the size of a pregnant
elephant, he may very well have lured thousands of innocent people into
downloading the demo, only to delete it five minutes later. So instead of
attracting people to IF, he may be repelling them, by the thousands.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 7:45:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard Sherman wrote:
[Snipped a lot of BS]

I always feel sad about plonking the author of a game I actually liked.

Well, there you go. *plonk*
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 11:22:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

emshort@mindspring.com wrote:
> "I would also say that JA (*or* pcgameworld) having
> reviewed something doesn't necessarily mean that that something should
> not also be reviewed in SPAG: the two have different contributors and
> only partly-overlapping readership. For that matter, a game having
> received an IF-Review doesn't make it ineligible for SPAG's most
> wanted list. The more reviews the better, really, and it doesn't hurt
> to have them come from multiple perspectives on gaming, either.

You're right, of course -- I didn't mean to imply that just because it had
been reviewed by someone else (*anyone* else) it doesn't need to be reviewed
in SPAG. On the contrary, I know that lots of games get reviewed in SPAG as
well as other places, and I think that's great. I had two separate ideas in
my post: first, I didn't think P:FL should be on the top ten most wanted
list for SPAG, and second, if the poster wanted to read reviews of P:FL
there are a few places on the web to look.

> There may, of course, be other reasons, and I suppose the fact that
> the author of the review would have to spend $20-$30 first in order to
> contribute to a nonpaying review zine is a legitimate concern.

Aye. I don't have a good way around that, which is why I haven't reviewed
the full version :-).

Jess
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 12:04:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Howard Sherman wrote:
>
> When you said "My serious review of the Demo version is written more
> for today's IF community, unlike the above reviews" what, exactly, did
> you mean?

Serious, adjective: not trifling or jesting. Carried out in earnest. Of
considerable size or scope (it was over 1500 words, which is pretty large
for an IF review). I used the word because the post I was replying to was
looking for a serious review of the game.

> What's more sad is how you trumpet your review of a FIRST RELEASE DEMO

Why, is the full version better (as opposed to just longer)? The Demo
version was all I had to go on. Wasn't it intended to demonstrate the full
version?

> and say it is more authoritative than reviews made by people who
> actually played the entire game right to the end.

I did not claim my review was more authoritative. I just picked the stuff I
found by doing a quick Google: "pentari first light" reviews.

> Who appointed YOU the official spokesperson for the Interactive
> Fiction community, anyway?

This is USENET, where everyone speaks for themselves.

> I won't even bother to explore all the exposure I've generated through
> front-page newspaper articles, radio interviews, my website, etc. etc.

It's too bad you couldn't have gotten in that GAMES magazine article,
because that's the one people I know asked me about. That's the one I point
out to people who want to know more about IF.

> What do YOU do for the IF community apart from being obnoxious and
> manipulative?

Reviews, mostly. A little beta-testing. I guess the obnoxious part is just a
bonus.

> I'm not going to operate in PanksMode and attempt to persuade you or
> anyone else here that my work is good. I know my work is good. The
> masses outside Bizarro world know this also. Like usual, my purpose
> here is to present the facts and correct the horrendous inaccuracies.

I am intrigued. Where are the horrendous inaccuracies? Please let me know
where I have made a false statement and I will do everything I can to amend.
I'm honestly glad that people like your games. I have seen room for
improvement in the bits that I have played. Please, for the sake of Truth
and Honesty, let me know where I can set the record straight. Feel free to
email me directly if you'd rather not post on the newsgroups for any reason.
[Drat, I just realized that this whole thread has been cross-posted to both
raif and rgif. My apologies, folks. This will be my last post on the
cross-posted thread. Follow-ups set to rec.arts.int-fiction.]

> Facts and truth are too powerful for the forces of chaos in Bizarro
> World. You and the others of your kind are rendered powerless against
> them.

There are others of my kind? I think this is, on balance, good news.

> Also as usual, I am not going to bother to check for responses. The
> posts tend to be one sided and more than occasionally border on the
> hysterical. I expect that to be doubly-true of anything you have to
> say.

If you're not going to check for responses, why did you ask me specific
questions?

Who is being one-sided, the person who refuses to check for responses to
their post or the person who reads, considers, and responds thoughtfully?

--
Jess, who is wondering what it means to be "doubly-true" one-sided. Would
that make me two-sided? Or what?
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 12:25:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Bob_Woodward wrote:

> Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
> serious review of the full version someday.

Actually, at one point a review of P:FL was in process, but Howard was so
unhappy with (what he expected to be) its content that he vaguely
threatened to sue both me and the review's author. After that, I pledged
to Howard that SPAG would never again mention him or Malinche, and he
indicated his satisfaction with this outcome.

So if anyone is considering reviewing any of his works for SPAG, please
don't, because I won't print it.

--
Paul O'Brian obrian@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
Make your voice heard by contributing a review to issue #38 of SPAG!
The deadline for this issue is September 5th, 2004.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 12:30:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Woodfish wrote:

> Does anyone know who the author of Dead Reckoning (no. 2) is?

David Kinder is correct in his assumption that I intended this request for
Nick Montfort's translation of "Olvido Mortal." I didn't realize at the
time that David Whyld wrote an ADRIFT game of the same name -- I don't
recall seeing that game announced in the newsgroups. Anyway, I've actually
received a review of Whyld's game for SPAG 38, so that's a bonus, and I
haven't yet gotten a review of the Pelaez translation, so if anyone would
like to write one, I'd still love to have it!

Cases where there are two separate games with the exact same title are
rare, and unless I indicate otherwise, I'm happy to get a review of either
one.

--
Paul O'Brian obrian@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
Make your voice heard by contributing a review to issue #38 of SPAG!
The deadline for this issue is September 5th, 2004.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 2:12:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Howard Sherman wrote:

> What's more sad is how you trumpet your review of a FIRST RELEASE DEMO
> and say it is more authoritative than reviews made by people who
> actually played the entire game right to the end. What were you
> thinking, sweetheart?

Maybe, jackass, she was thinking she wasn't going to waste $20 on a game
after playing the demo and finding it substandard for modern IF.

> Who appointed YOU the official spokesperson for the Interactive
> Fiction community, anyway?
>
> How can YOU speak for today's IF community for that matter?
>
> My dear Jessica, I am the one who sets the tone and standards for
> today's IF community.

And who appointed YOU? What? No one? You mean it's a ridiculous
assertion based on your own delusional hallucination? Sure seems that way
to me.

> When everybody OUTSIDE of these two newsgroups played BOFH it earned
> rave reviews and has become a cult classic. In stark contrast, BOFH
> rated somewhere towards the bottom of the list in IF Comp 2002. Isn't
> it funny that THOUSANDS of people enjoy BOFH despite its low ranking by
> just a few people? I think it's hysterical. I was signing autographs
> today for people who thought it was so cool to meet the guy who wrote
> BOFH.

"People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand
because they don't know the difference." BOFH rated near the bottom
because it just wasn't that good. And I say this as one of the people who
beta-tested it. To be honest, I'm now embarrassed to have my name listed
as one of the testers in the game, and not because of any malice I hold
towards you; it's because BOFH was a buggy and poorly designed game. In
my defense, it was the first IF game I'd ever helped test and I wasn't
really familiar with good and proper testing techniques. Several of my
recommendations were brushed aside and I never did get to test the full
version of the game. The only versions I got to try ended at the hotel
lobby.

Howard, if all of this compels you to take my name out of the credits,
then feel free. I only hope that the rest of the community decides not to
hold my shameful past against me. (I was young, I needed the money.)

Last year you'd asked me if you were on my bad side and how it happened.
You weren't then, but you are now. And how it happened is simple: you're
a pompous ass with a much higher opinion of your work than it deserves.
Your IF is selling? That's great. It doesn't, even if true, have much of
a bearing on how good it actually is.

> Also as usual, I am not going to bother to check for responses.

None of us truly believes this. If you didn't read R*IF so closely, you
wouldn't pop up so readily every time someone mentions your games.

> The posts tend to be one sided and more than occasionally border on the
> hysterical.

I think this is the new definition of irony.

/====================================================================\
|| Quintin Stone O- > "You speak of necessary evil? One ||
|| Code Monkey < of those necessities is that if ||
|| Rebel Programmers Society > innocents must suffer, the guilty must ||
|| stone@rps.net < suffer more." -- Mackenzie Calhoun ||
|| http://www.rps.net/QS/ > "Once Burned" by Peter David ||
\====================================================================/
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 2:25:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, David Welbourn wrote:

> After reading Howard's message, I have this suggestion for the rest of
> us.
>
> I have an idea. I'd like to suggest that if anyone's going to any sf/f
> or comics con, to simply write up a 1-page flyer with prominent and
> respected IF URLs, boldly use the words "INTERACTIVE FICTION", "TEXT
> ADVENTURE GAMES", and "FREE", print off 200 copies, and leave them on
> the flyer table.

Or, if you're feeling bold, burn some copies of David A. Cornelson's
"Summer IF Promotional CD" and leave them out for people to take. Though
this might get pricey unless you can get blanks for cheap or free. (Got
to love those 'free after rebate' deals that occasionally pop up.)

/====================================================================\
|| Quintin Stone O- > "You speak of necessary evil? One ||
|| Code Monkey < of those necessities is that if ||
|| Rebel Programmers Society > innocents must suffer, the guilty must ||
|| stone@rps.net < suffer more." -- Mackenzie Calhoun ||
|| http://www.rps.net/QS/ > "Once Burned" by Peter David ||
\====================================================================/
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:17:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Cedric Knight" <cknight@gn.babpbc.removeallBstosend.org> wrote in message news:<4128b5fe$0$79001$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>...
> Had this demo been entered in the IntroComp, both the lack of attention
> to writing and programming and the absence of original and involving
> events would have made me vote it at a similar level to 'On the Cross',
> rather than placing it with the intriguing 'Auden's Eden' or the (silly,
> but fun) 'Homework of Little Carl Gauss'. If the full version of
> Greystone is worth playing, this is a very poor advertisement for it.
>
> Cedric


Sorry for the "self-advertisement" but anyone willing to read a review
of Gresystone's full version may be interested in JA+'s recently
published one. Here's the link:
http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greyston...

I'm the one who wrote it and I would be very glad if anyone wants to
give his/her opinion concerning the review.

Regards, R Pautassi
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 5:28:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Paul O'Brian <obrian@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.58.0408230805520.27068@ucsu.colorado.edu>...
> Actually, at one point a review of P:FL was in process, but Howard was so
> unhappy with (what he expected to be) its content that he vaguely
> threatened to sue both me and the review's author. After that, I pledged
> to Howard that SPAG would never again mention him or Malinche, and he
> indicated his satisfaction with this outcome.

Now that explains everything and is - for me - worth more than an
actual review. I just saved 20 $!

Bob
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 10:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Paul O'Brian" <obrian@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote in message
news:p ine.GSO.4.58.0408230826260.27068@ucsu.colorado.edu...
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Woodfish wrote:
>
> David Kinder is correct in his assumption that I intended this request for
> Nick Montfort's translation of "Olvido Mortal." I didn't realize at the
> time that David Whyld wrote an ADRIFT game of the same name -- I don't
> recall seeing that game announced in the newsgroups.
>

Probably because I *didn't* announce it. In hindsight, it might have been a
good idea if I had...

>
> Anyway, I've actually
> received a review of Whyld's game for SPAG 38,
>

Yay!
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 12:40:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

I'll preface this message with an intro. I'm Jess Knoch's husband
Carl. I don't do IF game writing. I work as a tech support
consultant.

After I heard that there was a funny windbag on the IF Usenet group, I
just had to go look for myself. I find it humorous that Mr. IF, also
known as Howard Sherman, didn't really back up any of his ranting with
real facts. He assaulted an opinion with... his opinions. Facts
would have been great to hear, like how many copies of his game he's
sold, when he became the Savior of IF, and what in Jess' review was
misinformation.

With that in mind I decided not to take her word for it, that the game
was rife with problems, and I went to test out the demo version that's
currently on the web site of Mr. IF. There were several things about
it that would keep me from purchasing the full version. Misspelled
words, grammar problems, being told that things like manilla folders
can't have anything in them and thus can't be opened, as well as basic
problems with the logic behind the game showed me that the game wasn't
very polished nor ready for commercial consumption. What do I mean by
logic problems you ask? Well you enter a warehouse from the west by
typing "east". When you are in the warehouse you have the choice to
go west to a Bar, east to some bathrooms (that you can't enter, but
that's another problem), north to a stage area, and south to the exit.
South.... to the exit.... Didn't I just come in from the west? How
did that bar get in front of the door? No wait, how did the door get
on the south wall? I must have broken my internal compass upon entry.

I will admit that I don't play IF games normally. I'm more of a paper
and pencil role-player. The only two IF's I've tried were Tookies
Song, and The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. Neither had such
glaring grammar, spelling, and basic logic errors that this demo
showed. If the author hadn't already told me he was IF God, I would
have helped him out by getting a full copy of the game and testing it,
so he could fix the bugs that are inherent in it and thus avoid
embarrassment when people play it. Maybe a review of the full game
needs to be done and posted on Gamespot.

This demo reminded me of a time when I played D&D with a new DM who
was more fond of telling a story and not allowing us to explore the
world we were in instead. "No you can't go in that bathroom because I
don't know what's in there and don't want to take the time to flesh it
out!"

I looked on E-Bay for copies of the game and found none. If I had
found one cheap (I can't imagine that anyone would pay much for the
game used) I would have purchased it and reviewed it. Apparently it
doesn't need to be reviewed though as the discs are selling like
hotcakes at a Con near you!

I think it would be a great idea to get that Summer IF Promotional CD
produced. The one that was talked about in an earlier post. We could
take it to the next GenCon to distribute it for free. If there were
better IF games out there, the real IF community might continue to
grow. Maybe we can start a movement. A Bizzaro IF world movement!
We would of course need a new name for the movement as that one was
taken by SNL.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 1:03:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <20f0d1da.0408231017.5103298f@posting.google.com>,
Ricardo Pautassi <rpautassi@immf.uncor.edu> wrote:
[..]
>Sorry for the "self-advertisement" but anyone willing to read a review
>of Gresystone's full version may be interested in JA+'s recently
>published one. Here's the link:
>http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greyston...
>
>I'm the one who wrote it and I would be very glad if anyone wants to
>give his/her opinion concerning the review.

I thought the review gave me a pretty idea of what to expect from the
game. My only question is this -- you identified a number of (what
seemed to me to be) fairly serious game-design issues with Greystone,
but then said that it was "especially suited to novice players". Why
did you suggest it for novice players? The only interpretation I can
come up with is that they haven't played enough games to be
disappointed by the low level of implementation in Greystone, but
there may be some more charitable reading I am missing. Was there
perhaps a lot of support for novices, beyond an occasional error
message saying an object isn't important?

>Regards, R Pautassi
--
Dan Shiovitz :: dbs@cs.wisc.edu :: http://www.drizzle.com/~dans
"He settled down to dictate a letter to the Consolidated Nailfile and
Eyebrow Tweezer Corporation of Scranton, Pa., which would make them
realize that life is stern and earnest and Nailfile and Eyebrow Tweezer
Corporations are not put in this world for pleasure alone." -PGW
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 4:48:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Paul O'Brian <obrian@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.58.0408230805520.27068@ucsu.colorado.edu>...
>
> Actually, at one point a review of P:FL was in process, but Howard was so
> unhappy with (what he expected to be) its content that he vaguely
> threatened to sue both me and the review's author. After that, I pledged
> to Howard that SPAG would never again mention him or Malinche, and he
> indicated his satisfaction with this outcome.
>

Had to laugh when I read that.

I guess deep down Howard knows the true "quality" of his work and
realises how badly he would come off from a genuine honest review of
one of his games.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 9:11:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

dbs@cs.wisc.edu (Dan Shiovitz) wrote in message news:<cgdm3u$dat$1@drizzle.com>...
> In article <20f0d1da.0408231017.5103298f@posting.google.com>,
> > I thought the review gave me a pretty idea of what to expect from the
> game. My only question is this -- you identified a number of (what
> seemed to me to be) fairly serious game-design issues with Greystone,
> but then said that it was "especially suited to novice players". Why
> did you suggest it for novice players? The only interpretation I can
> come up with is that they haven't played enough games to be
> disappointed by the low level of implementation in Greystone, but
> there may be some more charitable reading I am missing. Was there
> perhaps a lot of support for novices, beyond an occasional error
> message saying an object isn't important?


"The only interpretation I can come up with is that they haven't
played enough games to be disappointed by the low level of
implementation in Greystone"

Yep, that's the idea I had in mind when writing.


> Was thereperhaps a lot of support for novices, beyond an occasional error
> message saying an object isn't important?

There a several of those messagges, at least much more than in any
other standard IF game. Besides that, the general sructure of the
gameplay is more straightforward (regarding goals and how to achieve
that), so making it accesible enough for novice players.

As a reviewer, I tend to balance the pros and cons of each game and I
try to do this task in the context of the different publics that might
be interested in the game, that may explain my statements.

Dan, thanks a lot for your valuable input!

Ricardo
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 11:19:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:25:27 -0600, Paul O'Brian
<obrian@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote:

>On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Bob_Woodward wrote:
>
>> Shoudn't Pentari: First light be on the list? I'd really like to see a
>> serious review of the full version someday.
>
>Actually, at one point a review of P:FL was in process, but Howard was so
>unhappy with (what he expected to be) its content that he vaguely
>threatened to sue both me and the review's author. After that, I pledged
>to Howard that SPAG would never again mention him or Malinche, and he
>indicated his satisfaction with this outcome.
>
>So if anyone is considering reviewing any of his works for SPAG, please
>don't, because I won't print it.

So, he forbids you to review his game(s), then flames Jess Knoch
because she suggests that reviewing P:FL on SPAG should not be a
priority... Hmm... Not all that surprised, I am sorry to admit.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 2:24:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

> Sorry for the "self-advertisement" but anyone willing to read a review
> of Gresystone's full version may be interested in JA+'s recently
> published one. Here's the link:
> http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greyston...
>
> I'm the one who wrote it and I would be very glad if anyone wants to
> give his/her opinion concerning the review.


So then you're also the one who gave PFL a "clear, solid A". In a way
you're the reason for my confusion...

I'd just want to know: did you also play the demo version? Is there a
huge improvement in the full version or do you just disagree with the
opinion of most people here and on ifratings (which would be OK of
course)?

Bob
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 7:31:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

carlknoch@mindspring.com (Carl Knoch) wrote:

>I'll preface this message with an intro. I'm Jess Knoch's husband
>Carl. I don't do IF game writing. I work as a tech support
>consultant.
>
>After I heard that there was a funny windbag on the IF Usenet group, I
>just had to go look for myself. I find it humorous that Mr. IF, also
>known as Howard Sherman, didn't really back up any of his ranting with
>real facts. He assaulted an opinion with... his opinions. Facts
>would have been great to hear, like how many copies of his game he's
>sold, when he became the Savior of IF, and what in Jess' review was
>misinformation.
>
>With that in mind I decided not to take her word for it, that the game
>was rife with problems, and I went to test out the demo version that's
>currently on the web site of Mr. IF. There were several things about

Thank you for your review. <BEG>

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 9:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

soenke_k@yahoo.com (Bob_Woodward) wrote in message news:<3e174d1e.0408240924.7dfc9a4e@posting.google.com>...
> > Sorry for the "self-advertisement" but anyone willing to read a review
> > of Gresystone's full version may be interested in JA+'s recently
> > published one. Here's the link:
> > http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greyston...
> >
> > I'm the one who wrote it and I would be very glad if anyone wants to
> > give his/her opinion concerning the review.
>
>
> So then you're also the one who gave PFL a "clear, solid A". In a way
> you're the reason for my confusion...
>
> I'd just want to know: did you also play the demo version? Is there a
> huge improvement in the full version or do you just disagree with the
> opinion of most people here and on ifratings (which would be OK of
> course)?
>
> Bob


Hi Bob, yes, I also wrote Pentari´s review. I can't speak for the
demo version because I never played it. Concerning the full version, I
found it, as I wrote in the review, quite solid. The spelling system
was interesting and while most of the writing was standard, I enjoyed
some sections, like those when Vera's ghost make its appearance. There
are dozens of puzzles (some optional), ranging from conversational to
inventory/spell based and including treasure hunting too, and their
quite fair. The length of the game is considerable, too. The main
weakness of the game is its thin cliché-like plot, which, to a certain
extent, gives a sort of "old-school feeling" to the game.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 12:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Ricardo Pautassi wrote:

> dbs@cs.wisc.edu (Dan Shiovitz) wrote in message news:<cgdm3u$dat$1@drizzle.com>...
> > Why
> > did you suggest it for novice players? The only interpretation I can
> > come up with is that they haven't played enough games to be
> > disappointed by the low level of implementation in Greystone
>
> Yep, that's the idea I had in mind when writing.

But that's like saying "I recommend this game for novice players because
they will be too ignorant of the genre to know they've been sold a
duff product." I know that's Howard's marketing plan, but....

> > Was there perhaps a lot of support for novices, beyond an occasional error
> > message saying an object isn't important?
>
> There a several of those messagges, at least much more than in any
> other standard IF game. Besides that,

It seems bizarre to consider the fact that hardly any objects have been
implemented as "support for novices". It's as if "especially suitable for
novice players" is a backhanded compliment.

Stephen.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 12:21:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Ricardo Pautassi wrote:

> Concerning the full version, I
> found it, as I wrote in the review, quite solid. The spelling system
> was interesting and while most of the writing was standard, I enjoyed
> some sections, like those when Vera's ghost make its appearance. There
> are dozens of puzzles (some optional), ranging from conversational to
> inventory/spell based and including treasure hunting too, and their
> quite fair. The length of the game is considerable, too. The main
> weakness of the game is its thin cliché-like plot, which, to a certain
> extent, gives a sort of "old-school feeling" to the game.

Your praise for Pentari here is a lot more lukewarm than in your JA review,
where you say things like:

"the writing style is superlative"
"every object is profusely described"
"Delphin can be compared, in terms of richness of diversity, to the virtual
city portrayed in A Mind Forever Voyaging, one of Infocom's jewels."
"PFL is extremely polished"
"believe me, it's certainly worth every penny of its price."
"Pentari: First Light is a clear, solid A."

Now that you've written more IF reviews and are more familiar with the
quality of games in the current IF scene, I wonder would you have the same
reaction if you played Pentari now? From what I've read about Sherman's games,
and from what I've seen of the demo, I strongly suspect that if you were to
return to Pentari you would find many of the same problems you wrote about in
your Greystone review -- dozens of empty rooms there to pad out the game,
underimplemented, unresponsive NPCs, and clunky storytelling.

Stephen.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Ricardo Pautassi wrote:

> Sorry for the "self-advertisement" but anyone willing to read a review
> of Gresystone's full version may be interested in JA+'s recently
> published one. Here's the link:
> http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greyston...

I just wanted to say thanks for writing this review and thanks also for
posting a link to it. It might feel a bit like "self-advertisement," but
honestly, there are a lot of folks here who wouldn't know about it at all
unless someone posted a link to it, and you're the prime candidate for that.
So, thanks and keep up the good work!

> I'm the one who wrote it and I would be very glad if anyone wants to
> give his/her opinion concerning the review.

It was a meaty review, which I found quite tasty. Needs more garlic.

--Jess
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 7:13:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

stephenbond@ireland.com (Stephen Bond) wrote in message news:<c9b27022.0408250721.29e2ecc6@posting.google.com>...
> Ricardo Pautassi wrote:
> > Now that you've written more IF reviews and are more familiar with the
> quality of games in the current IF scene, I wonder would you have the same
> reaction if you played Pentari now? From what I've read about Sherman's games,
> and from what I've seen of the demo, I strongly suspect that if you were to
> return to Pentari you would find many of the same problems you wrote about in
> your Greystone review

Hi Stephen, I would have to replay the game to properly answer your
question, but to be honest I have to admit that you may have a point
there. Nonetheless, I think that both games cannot be compared in
terms of quality. As I said in my last review, Pentari is much better
that Gresystone.

Jess Knoch wrote:
>I just wanted to say thanks for writing this review and thanks also
for
>posting a link to it. It might feel a bit like "self-advertisement,"
but
>honestly, there are a lot of folks here who wouldn't know about it at
all
>unless someone posted a link to it, and you're the prime candidate
for that.
>So, thanks and keep up the good work!

Hi Jess, really appreciate your words. Thank you for taking the time
for sending your opinion.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 2:57:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Carl Knoch wrote:
> [...]
> I find it humorous that Mr. IF, also known as Howard
> Sherman, didn't really back up any of his ranting with real
> facts. He assaulted an opinion with... his opinions. [...]

That's how a successful troll looks like; it contains a lot of BS, and its
author never bothers to reply to anyone.

Troll-O-Meter 11 out of 10.
!