Getting new audio hardware, help please.

[unpretty]

My precious PC is running on AC-97 sound card and the-smallest&crappiest-stereo-speakers-ever(tm), you've never heared worse sound. Time for an upgrade.

I made some research, and this is what came out. It's pretty difficult to decide, so please if you could be so kind and post your suggestions and advices, I'd be most grateful. I'm not much of an audiophile and I my insight into this field is not very deep, so I ask for your opinions.

Speaker possibilities:
-<A HREF="http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/GB/EN,CRID=2,CONTENTID=7169" target="_new">Logitech X-620</A>
-<A HREF="http://www.geniusnet.com.tw/product/product.asp?pdtno=162" target="_new">Genius SW5.1HT</A>
-<A HREF="http://www.gembird.com/Subcat.asp?SubGroup=266&TM=Not" target="_new">Gembird WCS-YF-1A 5.1</A>

I've buried the idea of getting Creative, since the P5900 aren't too competitive with ones above, and Megaworks are too expensive. So far, I'm most inclined towards the Genius, but the Gembird would work, too. In theory, wooden speakers should produce better sound than plastic ones, right?

--------

Anyway, when it comes to sound-card, it's truly pain in the butt. I'm not too content with the Creative assortment, but it's almost the only brand I can get here. Isn't there any proper competition in this field? (Oh my, I wish nVidia would start manufacturing sound cards.)

My budget is pretty limited, but I guess I afford Audigy 2ZS in basic version, cause I fear their low-end solutions won't meet my expectations. Is there an audible difference between 16bit and 24bit processing? I don't need to record anything (like backup vinyl records, nor TV in, or whatever else) Just smooth, crystal clear, and as-good-as-it-gets playback.

The possibilites are

-SB Live Player 5.1 OEM
-SB Audigy ES
-SB Audigy LS
-SB Audigy 2 ZS

Mostly, I'd be delighted to hear how does the ZS outperform the others, practically, if I'm about to pay ungodly amount of money for it.

Once again, thank you for your time.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by unpretty on 09/10/04 10:19 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[lb19984]

Do you listen to a lot of music, movies
cause if you dont you dont really need audigy 2zs as crashman would say its overkill
you should be fine with the ls
logitech z-640's are really good speakers and they are practically dirt cheap for a 5.1 setup
#7 bucks shipped at amazon.com

System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[lb19984]

I wouldnt go with those other two brand's they look like SHlT on a STICK I mean 3600watts is like whats maybe in like a $20,000 system


System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[Mr5oh]

Out of the ones you listed the Logitech is the only set worth looking at. Those other sets are rated in PMPO power, basically anything rated like this is junk, and not much better than what you already have. PMPO is nothing more than a way to inflate your ratings and confuse your average consumer, they think they are getting a powerful set of speakers, and they end up producing no more sound than a standard 10 watt stereo setup.

If you aren't much of an audiophile, don't buy a sound card just yet. Generally that AC-97 setup should be enough. Does your board have the capability of swapping the in port and mic port into more outputs? Which board do you have exactly? Or did I interput this wrong, and you don't have on-board sound, and this is actually a card?

I would buy the speakers first, then decide if you need the sound card, you can buy a spliter if you need extra outputs. This may not give you true surround sound, but it will still give you good sound. Most likely your sound problems are coming from the cheap speakers, not the sound card.

And as said above, the ZS isn't worth the money in your case.

Oh and I use the 2.1 version of those Logitech speakers for my center channel on my sound setup, they sound great, and I'm sure your love the sound of them, they provide very deep, bass, enough to vibrate your desk quite a bit, and still have good highs. Creative also makes a setup similar to Logitechs. (I own both setups). The Logitech has more bass, and just a little deeper bass. The Creative set has better highs. Both are excellent speakers.


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[Mr5oh]

Also remember watts doesn't always mean loud, or powerful. There is a lot more to it than that.

For example, two speakers are fed 100 watts, one has a high efficency, the other is low efficency. The one with the higher efficency will actually be much louder. (Keep in mind this is a very simplified version, just to give you an example, there are a lot, and I mean a lot more variables involved.)

Also keep in mind that more speakers doesn't mean more sound, or twice as loud. If you have one speaker on, and you add another of the same speaker (same power, etc.) you don't get twice the sound, you only add roughly, an extra 3 db of sound.

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[Mr5oh]

logitech z-640's are really good speakers and they are practically dirt cheap for a 5.1 setup #7 bucks shipped at amazon.com

You had me all excited there for a moment, I saw that #7 and read it as $7. I thought no way, but if true, time to order a few sets, then it dawned on me $37 dollars (Of course didn't realize this before I searched Amazon.com).


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[lb19984]

sorry about taht 37
but its still pretty good when i got them for my friend i was getting them for 55 factory refurbished
I thought that was good

System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[Crashman]

I'd just get some good speakers. Most boards come with decent sound now, if yours didn't you could get a $15 soundcard to bring it up to mediocrity, which actually sounds OK on good speakers.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[unpretty]

Thank you, guys.

Well, I mostly want the speakers for audio playback, since I have some 50GB of fine music laying dead on my HDDs. Also a game now and then. Since most movies I have are coded in DivX, without 5.1DD audio track, it doesn't really matter.

Sorry, Mr5oh, I should've specified the sound card I had more clearly. It's a solution by RealTek on Gigabyte 7N400 Pro2 MB, and yeah, the ports are reconfigurable. So I won't waste money on Creative just yet. ^_^ Good, that's what I needed to get past me. And I doubt anything I can get would sound as pathetically as my Labtec freebies.

As for the speakers, I understand your uproar when reading about 3600W PMPO, but here follow the RMS:

Genius SW-5.1 Home Theater
Subwoofer: 45W
Satellite: 15W x 4 pcs
Center: 15W

For comparison, the competition from logitech is

Logitech Z-640
Subwoofer: 25.7 W
Satellite: 7.3W x 4 pcs
Center: 16.3W

So well, the RMS favours Genius pretty clearly... it costs about 50% more than the z-640. Furthermore, as far as I know, the material and size also matter. Genius speakers are pretty large, and made of wood. (the package weights almost 22 kilos , the fronts are 160 x 235 x 165 mm.) Technically, I find it unlikely that the light and relatively crappy looking z-640 satellites would have a chance to outperform them. (if they do, how's that possible?)

I mean, there is nothing that I like on the Logitech solution more, apart from the brand. Not speaking about that the SW-5.1 is a high-end (if relatively cheap, and far from as good as the z-680) solution, while the z-640 is below avarage on Logitech's product line. What also bugs me, is that I'd have to pay over $80 for the Z-640. Yeah, hardware prices suck in middle Europe. (The SW-5.1 HT is about $125) Do any of you actually have any hands-on experience with the Geniuses?

I might go to some local showcase to try out both of the solutions, and make my mind then...

Best Regards.

 

[lb19984]

listen do whatever you want but in my opinion dont get the genesis. For all you know they could sound even worse than the labtecs. I have had a lot of expiriebce with the logitech's and thats why i am recomending them. Technical specifications are also something to go buy because if you open up the klipscch speaker which is supposedly rated at 50 watts but on the speaker it sais 5watts. So all specifications are really fake and can be changed because of the enviorment. If you want something more powerful go with the z5300's or better than that put those 40 dollars toward's a new sound card.

System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[Mr5oh]

I would completely forget the sound card ideal, I am currently using that board, and have eight speakers and three subwoofers all in a surround setup, and it sounds great. Hopefully you have the audio exspansion thing included with your board, to add the sub and center outputs, so you don't lose your line in and mic in ports.

As for Gensius and Logitech, actually the the Logitech can theoretically still out perform the Gensius speakers. The key here is that RMS doesn't really tell you the whole story. Speaker enclosures can make huge differences in sound and loudness. Also keep in mind that it is possible that the Logitech speakers are a more efficent speakers, meaning less power would still have equal sound. Just for an example (this is not an example I calulated out, to actual numbers, just a random example off the top of my head): You have two speakers, one with very low effiency and one with a very high efficency. Let say the low efficency one gets fed 5000 watts, while the high efficency one only gets fed 500 watts, in this case both speakers could actually produce the same amount of sound.

In speaker building/design there are some many variables and different ways to do things, you can't go off of RMS watts alone, its just not accurate.

As for the two, I have heard of Logitech, I haven't heard of Gensius, have you? I have tried several sets of speakers over the years, so far the Logitech and the Creative have had the best sound. Klispch are also very good, but I feel they are to exspensive, and I could design a more powerful setup. Boston also has some good speakers, but they go cheap on the subwoofers and there setups just don't have good enough bass for me (which is strange as they are known for there subs). Anyways I have tried quite a few generic sets over the years, none compare to the Logitech or the Creative versions, many have claimed more power, or had a larger subwoofer, none could deliver the sound that the Logitech/Creative sets do.

With the brand name set you can be a little more sure that the set is going to last.

And as for the Klispch saying 40 watts, and the speaker saying 5 watts, that means nothing. The speaker should be still getting whatever the amp is pushing to it. Generally you can always feed speakers more than what they are rated for, generally you only do damage to a speaker if one of two things happen. 1: you try and play them very loud, before they have "warmed" up, this is rare, but I killed two 15 inch woofers this way, in the middle of winter in my car. 2: your amp sends it a garbage distorted signal, generally happens when you turn the volume up to loud. Anyways follow the <b>Golden Rule</b> for speakers: If it sounds bad, it probably is bad. If it sounds fine, you are fine.

<b>Just keep in mind watts aren't everything.</b> There are too many variables.

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[Mr5oh]

So all specifications are really fake and can be changed because of the enviorment.

Specifications are not fake, they are all based on something that is true. However they can be reported in a way that looks most positive.

Car amps, for example, give a watts rating, however if you read the specs, they list the voltage input as 14.4 volts. When you hook up an amp in a car, guess how many volts its going to get most of the time, and its less than 14.4, meaning the amp isn't going to put out what it says on the box. However if you look at a "nice" amp it will be rated in 12 volts, so its specs don't look as impressive, but is actually more powerful than one rated in 14.4 volts.

Second ratings are not going to change based on enviroment. Your speaker set will still have the same effiecency, and put out the same amount of power no matter where you are, whether its hot or cold, north or south of the equator, it doesn't matter.

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[Mr5oh]

I might go to some local showcase to try out both of the solutions

If you get to try both speakers side by side, it will give you a good ideal of how they will perform.

However whatever set you get, try placing the speakers, particulary the sub in different locations. You will tend to find a "sweet spot" for them. I have a 200 watts RMS 12-inch subwoofer that I use with my computer, generally it always sounds best in a corner diagonally, I normally try what seems like 30 different locations to find the right one. The difference between a well placed speaker, and a poorly placed speak is incredible.

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[lb19984]

yea i know i know I just didnt want to give the explanation that you gave lol
But your kinda wrong too
A long long time ago i had the logitech z-680 and they were rated at 450 rms (watts) one week after the klipsch came out the specifications sudently changed now they were 500 watts and the subwoofer and the sattelites all got more power.
What i meant abou the enviorment is that the Speaker guys set the sound card output levels (which go to the speakers) to very high levels producing a lowder and greater sound which the speakers cannot maintain for more than a few seconds unless they would burst for example the 3600 watts on those speakers which we both dont recommend.
So i'm sorry mr. Mr5oh I stand firm
And look what you made me do i made a longass reply

Oh yea buy the way going to test out the speakers at some demo is also not such a great idea because in the us at least, at the local bestbuy pcrichards or any other big chain the speakers are connected through one cable. In other words no center,rear,front and there isnt no soundcard So you cant actually tell the difference
I mean a 20 dollar creative set can sound better than a 200 dolla logitech set


System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[Mr5oh]

lb19984, you seem knowledgable, but everynow and then you come out of middle of no where with something way out in left field. How many audio competitions have you compeated in? Or how many audio systems have you setup? I did this most of the way through high school. Now your first commment:

Speaker guys set the sound card output levels (which go to the speakers) to very high levels producing a lowder and greater sound which the speakers cannot maintain for more than a few seconds unless they would burst for example the 3600 watts on those speakers which we both dont recommend.

Sorry but this is @$$nine, and shows you obvisuly have no ideal what you are talking about. Guess what, I worked for BestBuy, selling car audio, and also made repairs and adjustments to the computer setup. Yes the speakers are all fed from the same reciever, however, my store, and the other stores in my area, all actually set volume levels at a mininum to keep people from damaging the speakers. Second how in the world are you going to send the speakers 3600 watts??? Almost all computer speakers have builtin amplifiers at this point, and lets say that built-in amplifier puts out 45 watts, guess what it will put out 45 wether you send it a signal that is 3600 watts, or 2 watts, it will output 45 watts (Assuming the 3600 watt signal doesn't blow something, but for more common example, if you send it 50 watts, it will still put out its rated 45). Second if you send a very loud signal to a set of speakers you odds of getting a junk/distorted signal are very high, this distorted/trash signal is what damages speakers. Most stereo equipment just isn't capable of sending a nice clean signal at loud volumes.

greater sound which the speakers cannot maintain for more than a few seconds unless they would burst

Why in the world would an electronic store set speakers to a setting that would blow them in a few seconds, go to a store crank'em up, they'll play all day long, guess why? Because what you said isn't true.

Oh yea buy the way going to test out the speakers at some demo is also not such a great idea because in the us at least, at the local bestbuy pcrichards or any other big chain the speakers are connected through one cable. In other words no center,rear,front and there isnt no soundcard So you cant actually tell the difference

Sorry but once again this is @$$nine. Yes generally all major chain stores power the speakers off of one reciever, however only one set is on at a time, which means the signal is not changed. How is the sound of speakers affected by whether or not the center channel is plugged into a center channel? So you don't have a true surrond sound setup in the stores, <b>a true surround sound setup does not magically make your speakers great.</b>

A long long time ago i had the logitech z-680 and they were rated at 450 rms (watts).....sudently changed now they were 500 watts and the subwoofer and the sattelites all got more power.

Links for this example?? As companies don't lie about specifications, as this tends to get them in legal trouble. There are many different versions of the Logitech speakers, several differnt 2.1, several differnt 5.1 setups. But according to you your Klipsch satilletes are only getting 5 watts, becuase this what they say on the back of the speaker.

People come here for help and advice, make sure you are giving good advice, and not some BS, just to get your post rating up. A user title doesn't make you any more knowledgable than before.

I don't claim to know everything about sound equipment, but I do know more than your average person, and in this particular area, I am sure I know more than you in this area, I have had much more expeirence.

I could say more, but I'll leave it at that. Anyways no hard feelings, but I'm pretty sure no one here would back any of the statements you made.

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[Mr5oh]

Unpretty, bet you never thought you would get such long replies?? Learn anything yet??

Anyways, go to a store check some speakers out and see what you think, I would skip the sound card ideal, as your board has very good on-board sound.

I recommend you stick with a major name brand, in the end they all sound great, and will last for years to come, where-as generic, no name stuff, is hit or miss, and generally won't produce the sound of the name brands.

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[unpretty]

Unpretty, bet you never thought you would get such long replies?? Learn anything yet??

Yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised. Kudos to you guys, it's been very helpful. Especially that bit about not having to give rotten Creative a wooden nickel. I like long replies, as long as they stay on topic, which you two manage. And sorry it took me so long to reply, my weekend was pretty busy.

I would completely forget the sound card ideal, I am currently using that board, and have eight speakers and three subwoofers all in a surround setup, and it sounds great.

Oh-my-God!! Anyone living in a one mile radius has to hate you... unless you have them in a bunker with three foot wide sound-dampening walls. 15 inch woofers, wow. And once again, I'm glad the sound card works fine.

As for the two, I have heard of Logitech, I haven't heard of Gensius, have you?

Yes! That's why they're still my number one. They're very popular around here, both among the computer magazine editors, and end-users, cause they sell pretty many of them. I've read several very high rated reviews, with hardly any shortcomings. The reviews on z-640 are positive as well, though some of them are noticing the problem that I found as well (see below).

Anyways, go to a store check some speakers out and see what you think.

I went to a friend's house, he has the Z-640. It's a blast, that's for sure, but then again-- Anything is, compared to what I have now. It was perfect for gaming, and playing bass-intensive music, but I was missing something in the mid-range tones. When playing music, the mids simply sounded a bit... indistinct compared to heights and bass. Especially at higher volumes, the sound seemed to get muddled. I initially thought it was just the settings, but I've tried to tweak them, without success. I have to get my hands on Geniuses before I buy, but what I've heard is all-praise. It's been on sale for four years, and no generic problem has been found.

Logitech satellites only have one driver unit, while the Geniuses have <A HREF="http://www.svethardware.cz/photo_doc-C4577E93DBE1D75AC1256EE6006496EC.html" target="_new">two</A>. One of them is 4'' for mid-range, and the other supports heights. Plus, they're all wooden.

I don't fear much for quality, cause they're pretty decent. They have the same warranty as Logitechs, and I can take them back to my store in two weeks if I don't like them. (for a fee)

So, taken away the fears about Genius as an inferior brand, do you still think the z-640 is a better buy? Meh, if only the mid-range tones were better...

Thanks.

 

[lb19984]

Listen smar@ss Not everything i say is BULLSHlT O.k. I know its hard to contenplate that i'm right and something could have gotten passed you.
here is a picture o an opened up klipsch sattelite speaker
on a review of the klipsch on gamersdepot.com
http://www.gamers-depot.com/hardware/speakers/klipsch/promedia_51/speaker_guts.htm
OH MY GOD the speaker sais 5 watts WTF but it sais 60 watts on klipsch.com
IF you give me your email adress i can gladly email you a pcture of my logitech z-680's box on which it sais 450watts rms
Or i can put it up as a text file and then you can switch it back to .jpeg

By the way with your little explanation i've lost all my respect for you.
I cant type right now but i will finish up my reply in the near future. My father is also an electronics engineer and he told me about how the specifications change. He did it himself when he worked for sony

By the way here is another post that you might wanna write a nice long reply to.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=100126#100126

If you would have also read my post more carefully the disscusion about the 3600 waatts i wrote that the speaker company gives the speakers a very high imput in effect pumping out the high wattage. And if you ever looked at some specifications it always sais 500 watts peak power.
that peak power is achieved when the speakers are given a very high sound imput the sound is already amplafied by the time it reaches the speakers amplifier. Listen you think your big keep thinking that way but your not making me feel stupid your actually making yourself look stupid.
And by the way selling car audio at your local bestbuy doesnt really give you knowledge, over time you just memmorize the specifications.


System Spec's:
Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s

 

[Mr5oh]

OH MY GOD the speaker sais 5 watts WTF but it sais 60 watts on klipsch.com

Ok so the speaker is stamped 5 watts on the back, so you think it is getting 5 watts? Or are feeling jipped, that you think they gave you a cheap speaker?

Specifications don't just change like that, the peak numbers they can play with a little, but continous numbers they can't change. If Logitech is doing this, it may be time for me to test my system, and have my lawyer send out paperwork to them.

If you father is an electrical engineer (I assume he has at least a 4-year degree in this?), you should know more than you do. Guess what, my father is still a certified electrical engineer he in the state of Ohio (Currently has a masters).

By the way here is another post that you might wanna write a nice long reply to.

Why would I want to post into that, it has nothing to do with this subject. There at least you have some sources to back up your information (The other forum).

the speaker company gives the speakers a very high imput in effect pumping out the high wattage.

WTF??? What is wrong with you, surely your father, the electrical engineer didn't tell you this garbage. For example (and I know this isn't a computer speaker, but same concept), your CD Player in your car, puts out 25 watts RMS, which sends it signal to an amplifer that puts out 80 watts RMS. According to your "logic" that speaker would then get 105 watts, because it got a 25 watt input??? You obivsuly don't cleary understand how electronics work.

<b>LB19984 IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS!</b> (Heck if your father is really an electrical engineer, ask him about this)

Lets say an amplifier is rated 45 watts RMS. Lets say your standard input is 1 watt, the amplifier still puts out 45 watts RMS, not 46 watts RMS. If you input is a 100 watts (assuming you don't fry anything right away), your output is still going to be 45 watts RMS (Could be just slightly higher 46/47 watts, but would be extremely distorted).

And by the way selling car audio at your local bestbuy doesnt really give you knowledge, over time you just memmorize the specifications.

The above statement is true for many people, but, you are not correct in my case. I didn't learn my stuff from working at BestBuy, the only reason I brought that up, is becuase I worked on their sound systems that supplied power to the speakers.

I wasn't trying to make you or I look stupid, I tried to respectfully infer that what you were saying was incorrect, then you came back with even more BS, so then I posted each of your statements, and why they were wrong. I'm not trying to say you are wrong about everything, just in this particular situation you aren't right.

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[SoDNighthawk]

Hercules Game theater XP 7.1 External.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Air Cooled 45C
2x512 Corsair DDR 400 PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Two Maxtor 40Gig 8MB cach 7200rpm
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x

 

[unpretty]

Thanks, the Game THEATER 7.1 seems like a fine choice, I'll keep that in mind once I decide to buy a sound card (changed my mind in the meanwhile).

And when it comes to your watts argument, my GCSE in physics, my common sense and my father, who happens to be an electronical engineer as well tell me, that Mr5oh is right.

Best regards.

 

[SoDNighthawk]

np

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Air Cooled 45C
2x512 Corsair DDR 400 PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Two Maxtor 40Gig 8MB cach 7200rpm
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x

 

[Mr5oh]

Yes! That's why they're still my number one. They're very popular around here, both among the computer magazine editors, and end-users, cause they sell pretty many of them. I've read several very high rated reviews, with hardly any shortcomings. The reviews on z-640 are positive as well, though some of them are noticing the problem that I found as well (see below).

Well since Gensius has a good repuation, I would say they are defaintly worth looking into. As for your friends system, you are right the Logitech set is sort of focused on the bass, which can be adjusted, but still seems they were going for that deep, shake the walls bass (Which I like). The creative version of that setup has much better highs/treble, than the Logitech. It would be really nice if you could get to hear a set of those genisus speakers in person. However, I think if they weren't up to par, the magazine editors and reviews you saw, would not have been good.

Also note that the creative set that I have also have two drivers for each speaker, one "midrange" and a tweeter. So I imagine the Genisus set will be a long the same lines, and will have better highs. I think the Logitechs are sort of lagging behind in the high area, becuase the lack of a dedicated tweeters.

So, taken away the fears about Genius as an inferior brand, do you still think the z-640 is a better buy? Meh, if only the mid-range tones were better...

Well you got me wanting to look into possibly getting a Genisus setup to replace one of my generic sets on my setup, so you may want to look into them. Assuming there subwoofer sounds good, which I imagine it does, I almost think I would get them. As they should deffaintly have better highs.

And when it comes to your watts argument, my GCSE in physics, my common sense and my father, who happens to be an electronical engineer as well tell me, that Mr5oh is right.

lb19984, we're all here to learn (including me), so try to be more open minded about things. It's not about being right or wrong.

My Desktop: <A HREF="http://Mr5oh.tripod.com/pc.html" target="_new">http://Mr5oh.tripod.com/pc.html</A>

 

[Crashman]

A lot of speaker companies are using other methods to inaccurately rate their speakers and impress customers with false numbers. I first saw this with some 2W speakers that were rated 200W PMPO. WTF does PMPO mean? Nothing as far as I'm concerned, it's simply a way to inflate numbers.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[lb19984]

Look Mr5oh what I am trying to say is that although you dont believe me please explain to me how a 5 watt speaker turns to 60 watts if when the volteage is pumped up its power doesnt change?
And by the way my father has a doctors
I was also serious about the logitech picture send me a private image with your email and i'll send you a picture of the logitech z-680 box saying 450 watts


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Asus P4c800-E 3.2e @3.8ghz
1gb corsair xms pro2-2-2-5 aiw 9800 pro
audigy 2zs klipsch ultra's
74gb raptor wd 2000jb
pioneer 108 pioneer 120s