WTF is the deal w gay marriage?

I mean really, how fcking stupid is that? I'm mwc and I don't see it as a threat to me. Ok I can understand if you're a bible thumper and the church tells you it's not right. I got to church though and I don't let them shape my opinions about stuff like that. I figure I'm old enough to make up my own focking mind. So what is it that makes people so freakin crazy bout this? Jeez it's not like they're living in your house or something.

Homer: Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one! But you can't stop at one. You wanna drink another woman.

Reply to stupid_tech_geek

It has alot to do with a lot of things.
One, is by trying to get gay marriage passed is in itself bullshit. Marriage is defined as a man and a woman. Until the gay rights movement gives up the ghost and remarkets their passion by labeling it a union, it is doomed to fail.

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

I don't have a problem with your point of view, this is after all a free country, but why do people see it as such a threat to the sanctity of marriage? Who defines what marriage really is? Is it a man and a woman or is it two people in a comitted relationship? This seems like a form of discrimination too me. A person who is no different than me can be denied equal recognition under the law just because of their sexual orientation. Not right at all.

Homer: Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one! But you can't stop at one. You wanna drink another woman.

Reply to stupid_tech_geek

Hey, I wish I could really answer, but...well, I'm not too sure how this thread will go. Do a search on gay marriage in the OTHER. Not a beautiful sight. Not to be repeated.

So...this may be best left dying for now... :eek: And I think I speak for many here too... (no offense to you though, as if it hadn't been for the past here, I'd have answered ya frankly and with no problems whatsoever)

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Goes to show that our country is still hung up on christian ideals. As long as bush is in office and "god" is telling him what to do, its not going to change. I agree, its not fair for the gays. What do they say if your in a religion that says marriage is about 2 people in love, will they deny you marriage because its different from their religion (apparently yes.)

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oh, its a nice day. TO EAT CHILDREN!!!

Reply to gothitbycar

God doesn't tell Bush what to do, he's just listening to his own voice and calling it God.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Reply to Crashman

Would you agree with gay marriage so much, if it meant costing you money.
What about gay families, with adopted children (lovers) taking home welfare checks, while adding more dependants in order to increase benifits?

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

:lol: I said that same thing to a republican bible thumping friend a few months ago, just about verbatim.

Nemo me impune lacesset

Reply to raretech

The bible speaks of false prophets in the end days, and Bush is gathering increasing favor with Isreal, perhaps he's the antichrist after all!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Reply to Crashman

The thing is marriage is a religious thing. It's a contract between you, your partner (opposite sex) and god. I think that allowing gay marriages should be entirely up to the church you want to get married under. ie, the government shouldn't be able to ban lutherans from allowing it, nor should they force catholics to marry two gays.

The best solution I've come up with is to make marriage mean nothing legally (except for the ones already in place). Make it completely religious and let each church sort it out for themselves. If you don't like gay marriage, join a more conservative church where others think like you do. The government should then make a secular civil union which may be entered by any two consenting adults and have the priviledges/etc that marriage has today. Also make a little box on a form you can check if you're getting married in a manner that satisfies the civil union requirements that allows you to get both done at the same time.

This way nobody is forcing anyone else to accept gay marriage, nor is anyone telling gays they can't get married. It also gives them equal treatment under the law.

I predict that as soon as gays start getting married they're gonna wake up to the reality of marriage and gonna wish for the good old days when they weren't allowed to marry :lol:

s signature has been formatted to fit your scr

Reply to silverpig

LOL, that last part has already started over here. Did you hear about the one where the lesbian couple from the first ones in Ontario (IIRC it was there) since the legalization of it, had filed for divorce and, ironically, there were no laws yet written for divorcing gays? :lol:

Ouch, a no exit marriage!

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Weren't you the one who had some pretty homophobic thoughts and said you're ok with gays as long as you don't know who's gay around you, or you'll stay away from them?

Not looking to criticize you, rather this last post of yours was a bit of a surprise to me, considering what I seem to remember about you. I remember your post referred to by me here was done in the POLLS forum. Actually the thread was called "How many of your friends are gay?".

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Again, not trying to bring up the moral aspect of it, but economically speaking, it's been said gay marriage would be very good for the economy. From legal issues for lawyers to feast on, to other things. At least, that's what I've gathered.

I haven't yet made a decision on yes or no for adopting kids in a gay couple though, nevermind that there were many stories of kids growing very healthy in such kinds of families.

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Quote :

So...this may be best left dying for now...

You have a lot in common with this thread.
:evil:

War Eagle
"Operation Can't Do Nuthin' About It is now in effect!" -Flavor Flav

Reply to Auburn9698

Honestly, as a straight male father, I think I have a right to have my union with my wife acknowledged as being different than a gay union. I'm all for civil unions that grant rights, all for that 100 percent. I've read some really sad things about "partners" not being allowed to visit dying loved ones because they aren't "family", as well as other things regarding death benefits, etc... I think those injustices need to be addressed.

But I want the fact that my wife and I are propagating the species, co mingling our DNA and producing future generations acknolwedged as something special and different. That is what marriage is in my book. Two men or two women are not doing that and that's the way it is.

That's the way I feel personally on the subject and I wish my views would be seen as valid instead of just written off. I largely feel a great deal of disdain for religions in general, so you can't chalk this up to religious belief. It's just how I feel about it. Two men or two women do not contribute the same things to society that a man and a woman do. Propagation of the species is a very important thing and I think it deserves respect, the population bomb nuts be damned.

Let me reiterate though, that I do believe the injustices that gay couples experience need to be addressed substantially through civil union legislation. I think that is the best way to go. My 2 cents.

Nemo me impune lacesset

Reply to raretech

Quote :

Would you agree with gay marriage so much, if it meant costing you money.
What about gay families, with adopted children (lovers) taking home welfare checks, while adding more dependants in order to increase benifits?

wtf of a bs argument is that? This is an equal rights issue, not a money issue.

The religious argument is kind of wasted on me because I'm agnostic but I can respect that debate. It is hard to debate equal rights in a religious context if that religion denies equality between different people (not specifically addressing christianity here, it is more apparent in the Koran, where many people interpret the Koran such that the woman is considered property of the man).

From a constitutional point of view though, there should be equal rights. That is why it is best to have clear separation between state and church. Marriage is a constitutional concept where I live and clearly separated from any religious concept of marriage. If you want to marry in a religious context you have to marry twice (once before the legislature, once in church).

BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

Reply to BigMac

Quote :

But I want the fact that my wife and I are propagating the species, co mingling our DNA and producing future generations acknolwedged as something special and different. That is what marriage is in my book. Two men or two women are not doing that and that's the way it is.

That's the way I feel personally on the subject and I wish my views would be seen as valid instead of just written off. I largely feel a great deal of disdain for religions in general, so you can't chalk this up to religious belief. It's just how I feel about it. Two men or two women do not contribute the same things to society that a man and a woman do. Propagation of the species is a very important thing and I think it deserves respect, the population bomb nuts be damned.

This is meant with all due respect (because most of your stuf here is completely and utterly rational and respectful).

What is the point of the differentation you want to have if it is not in a religious context? What is the kind of recognition you want to have that you find lacking at the moment? Is it a money issue like Rich was stating? Only unions that can contribute to procreation of the species should receive some support from the state?

I respect your views on the issue just as much as I respect the christian position on the issue. If you ask me, you are experiencing some deeper down programming from a religious context that you are trying to deny (as you state you feel disdain for religions in general). What is the point of trying to differentiate this in constitutional terms?

BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

Reply to BigMac

Quote :

Honestly, as a straight male father, I think I have a right to have my union with my wife acknowledged as being different than a gay union. I'm all for civil unions that grant rights,

i am straight, and if a civil union is available when i wish to get married, then i will get a civil union with ym partner (unless she wishes to get married or is religious)

i think straigh couples moving away from marrige and towards civil unions are the biggest promise for removing segrigation.

although the name "civil union" is so retarded, it makes it sound so 'inhuman' i mean seriously, "will you marry me" vs "will you unite with me in the form of a civil union"? ha ha ha so retarded.

[sarcasm]
also i think all gay couples should go around with little pink stars on their shirts, just to point out that they are different.
[/sarcasm]

Alltaken

<A HREF="http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on, oh and its also all going on HERE <A HREF="http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/" target="_new">http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/</A>

Reply to alltaken

Making certain people wear stars on their shirts to ensure that others understand who they are is a good idea.

I seem to be famous for my 34Cs. Seig Heil!

Reply to Hot_Nicola

I think a gay marriage between a man and a woman is great...So many lack gaiety...

Gort, Klaatu nicto barada...Patricia Neal

Reply to TeeTewl

Good morning mrs. Mengele, how are you?

Gort, Klaatu nicto barada...Patricia Neal

Reply to TeeTewl

I'm full of the joys of Spring, as usual.

I seem to be famous for my 34Cs. Seig Heil!

Reply to Hot_Nicola

Quote :

But I want the fact that my wife and I are propagating the species, co mingling our DNA and producing future generations acknolwedged as something special and different. That is what marriage is in my book. Two men or two women are not doing that and that's the way it is.

Should couples with fertility problems have a second-class marriage? Should couples with many children get an upgrade in recognition? However, most importantly, should I sober up first or just start drinking now and face the inevitable?

<A HREF="http://www.tv-ark.org.uk/commercials/commercials_s-z/unigate1970sa.rm" target="_new">Watch out, there's a Humphrey about.</A>

Reply to Tom_Smart

Definitely start drinking, definitely.

Rob? Auburn?

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Quote :

You have a lot in common with this thread.

I see that as a common point for both of us in the future, my dear. :tongue:

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Quote :

[sarcasm]
also i think all gay couples should go around with little pink stars on their shirts, just to point out that they are different.
[/sarcasm]

Don't forget raising your pinky every 10 minutes!

--
Ede

Reply to eden

Quote :

Making certain people wear stars on their shirts to ensure that others understand who they are is a good idea.

/me was wondering why i always got gold stars at school LOL.

Alltaken

<A HREF="http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on, oh and its also all going on HERE <A HREF="http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/" target="_new">http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/</A>

Reply to alltaken

Lol, my opinion changes a lot. I say stuff for the sake of argument. I see it as constitutional rights being more important than my opinion.

-----------------------
oh, its a nice day. TO EAT CHILDREN!!!

Reply to gothitbycar

straight male father ~ straight male focker = STF

pretty contrasting, don't you think...

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

Quote :

What is the point of the differentation you want to have if it is not in a religious context?

It's simply because what a man and woman have is different than what same sex couples have. It has nothing to do with religion, the basis for this statement is pretty clear cut biology.

Quote :

Only unions that can contribute to procreation of the species should receive some support from the state?

That depends what you mean by support from the state. I'm not really big on state support of anyone in general. If you're referring to recognition of death benefits, then I think civil unions should cover that. What specifically are your referring to?

Quote :

I respect your views on the issue just as much as I respect the christian position on the issue.

Which is code for you don't respect them and you think they're silly and irrational, else you wouldn't go on to say this:

Quote :

If you ask me, you are experiencing some deeper down programming from a religious context that you are trying to deny (as you state you feel disdain for religions in general). What is the point of trying to differentiate this in constitutional terms?

Programming? You should question you own programming before you make statements like this. Here's one hint of your programming, I didn't mention the constitution in my reply. The purpose of differentiation is simple: They are not the same thing. They simply aren't. Scientifically speaking, the union of man and a man or a woman and a woman, is not the same thing as the union between a man and a woman. It isn't. This is biological reality here. I'm sorry if it messes up peoples ideals by pointing out the obvious, unarguable fact that they are different.

I didn't mention anything about the constitution. I don't think it's a nationwide constitutional issue, it should be something left up to the states. This is my opinion.

Nemo me impune lacesset

Reply to raretech

[sarcasm]
also i think all gay couples should go around with little pink stars on their shirts, just to point out that they are different.
[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]
no need, they already put rainbow stickers everywhere.[/sarcasm]

I didn't ask for Gay people to be identified as different, what I want is what I have with my wife to be acknowledged as different, because it is different. I'll wear the stars if it will make you feel better.

I have to wonder, what is it exactly that people are so uncomfortable with about being different? We aren't all the same, that's the way it is. What is wrong with wanting those differences recognized? Does everyone want to live in a make believe world where we all go around and pretend that everything and everyone is the same?

Celebrate diversity, celebrate the uniqueness of the traditional marriage. Oh wait, that's not political correct, dock me 100 PC points please. But if I celebrate the uniqueness of something that is politically correct, I'll get them back. Is that the way it works?

Nemo me impune lacesset

Reply to raretech

Quote :

Should couples with fertility problems have a second-class marriage? Should couples with many children get an upgrade in recognition? However, most importantly, should I sober up first or just start drinking now and face the inevitable?

Those cases are the exception, not the rule. No, they shouldn't have less recognition nor more recognition by the criteria you laid out.

Feel free to start drinking, I am.
Nemo me impune lacessetEdited by raretech on 11/07/04 10:31 PM.

Reply to raretech

I've got it. We should do away with all the different types of businesses(corporations, sole proprietory, LLC, etc...) and just have one business class. I don't think it's fair to smaller businesses to have the distinction made about what kind of business they are.

I also think we should do away with the terms "male" and "female", descrimination won't end in this country until all differences are stamped out. Also, "penis" and "vagina" should be used interchangeably just so no male or female(oops, dock me PC points) feel like they are lacking something.

I also think it's time to do away with titles like "Mr. Mrs." etc... They are discriminatory, based on sex, and highlight differences. And I don't think we should have different names anymore either, people shouldn't be made to feel different. From now on, everyones name is "Pat".

/end sarcasm

Nemo me impune lacesset

Reply to raretech

Quote :

I have to wonder, what is it exactly that people are so uncomfortable with about being different? We aren't all the same, that's the way it is. What is wrong with wanting those differences recognized? Does everyone want to live in a make believe world where we all go around and pretend that everything and everyone is the same?

my five best teachers, the ones that got me the highest marks, and were the most committed to their jobs were GAY. (most were females actually LOL)

but if we suddenly get a segregated marrigge situation, you get the whole deal of "nope hes not allowed to work here, coz he will touch little boys" when in reality there are more hetrosexual pedophiles than gay ones.

we had a case here in my country of a preschool teacher being found out to be gay, well he was investigated, and the children were "implanted" with memorys of being molested. they all later in life say that nothing happened, and that the investigator was forcing them to own up. 9video tapes and sound tapes proved this was true)

all these kids lives are F-ed up now because of the "big fear of fags" that there is.

i personally disagree with the "non-optional" segregation of people. if you choose to difirentiate yourself, then go for it. but if you are forcing someone to be different from you then it is "your prejudice" and "your problem" not the people that you are forcing it upon.

if you didn't realise my sarcasm was pointed at seperating Jews by religion. i mean seriously one thing leads to another, and soon you will find people looking up the civil union register, and going "lets go hang a fag couple"

its all just F-ed up.

i say diffirentiate yourself however you choose, wear a pin saying "i am a straight male with a lovely wife" for all i care. but IMO keep it to yourself.

i am not gay, but i feel they desirve more respect than they get, i mean all the gay people i know have been just the same as straight people.

Alltaken

<A HREF="http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mudpuddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on, oh and its also all going on HERE <A HREF="http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/" target="_new">http://doug.mudpuddle.co.nz/gallery/</A>

Reply to alltaken

I get the feeling that somehow you took offense to my post. It was not meant to offend you, so I'm sorry if that's what happened. Maybe I did not make myself clear enough.

If we are talking about "marriage" then, in my mindset, I know of only two possible contexts. One is religious, the meaning of "marriage" is clearly defined in the religious context. I'm not an expert on all religions but the bible has a clear concept of it, so does the Koran. The second context is constitutional. It is clearly defined in the constitution what your obligations and rights are when you marry. Please remember my background, I am from the Netherlands, and this is how it is arranged in dutch law.

What I notice in many US discussions about the issue is that "marriage" only has a religious context. A religion can make up its own definition and adhere to it, it is not fair to exclude people that want the same constitional rights on the basis of a religion that they are not a member of. So you need both concepts, and you need to be able to differentiate between the two. If it means using another word, fine, but religions do not have copyright on the word "marriage". Gays have the same constitutional rights, whether they can also marry in the religious context is up to the community that adheres to this religion.

Quote :

I didn't mention anything about the constitution. I don't think it's a nationwide constitutional issue, it should be something left up to the states. This is my opinion.

I noticed you did not, you also denounced religion in general so apparently that is not your context either. So what context are you using, where do you derive your concept of marriage from and what relevance has it to the debate of allowing gay marriage? That debate focuses on the constitutional context, and the right to use the word "marriage" for the sake of identifying identical constitutional rights for people engaging in this legal contract.

Of course, marriage also carries emotional content for me other than my legal obligations and rights (I am married). It is a bond between two people that pledge allegiance to each other for the remainder of their life (at least that is their intent). The fact that you can procreate in this relationship is not key for the basic values that marriage entices in my mindset (I am aware of the biological differences between men and women). I can and do respect the opinions of people who think differently, whether they are religious or not, but again, this cannot be an argument to keep people from their constitutional rights.

I think many people, like yourself, agree with that (hence your support of a civil union) and then the discussion comes down to the use of the word "marriage" for that.

Quote :

Which is code for you don't respect them and you think they're silly and irrational

Not very subtle. I have no problem with respecting people that are irrational, or silly, (at times, or always for that matter) as long as it does not interfere with constitutional rights of individuals. As I am human, I know I can be rather irrational at times. Irrational behavior can never be an excuse to violate someone else's rights. Which is not to say that some people can mightily irritate me with their irrational behavior but even that is no excuse to not respect their rights.

I hope I did a better job this time in expressing myself clearly?

BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

Reply to BigMac

If I fall in love with a sheep, should I be allowed to marry her? Or would it have to be a male sheep?
Should I have the same rights as anyone else. It is my focking decision if I want to unite with a sheep.
And we have 12 kids.
Now, I can't fully support them all, but I have constitutional rights, you know.
I now qualify for welfare, and tax credits, and government housing.
Give me my benifits that are rightfully mine.

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

BTW, this is fully sanctioned by the Good Shepard Church.
We are legal!

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

Yeah, time to allow sheep-man marriage!

--
Ede

Reply to eden

I do :eek:

:eek: I don't only break your heart, I also break your pelvis :eek:

Reply to WingDing

It asked you and you couldn't resist, didn't you.

--
Ede

Reply to eden

It had such purdy lips [/Alabama]

:eek: I don't only break your heart, I also break your pelvis :eek:

Reply to WingDing

I wonder what Eden thinks about that you compare bestiality with homosexuality?

I'm starting to see why you're feeling attracted to Hot_Nicola.

And stop confusing government funding with constitional rights. There's other ways to resolve that, for instance accept gay marriage and revoke all marriage benefits (for all people). A discussion about whether gays are allowed to marry or not is not about money, it is about the concept(s) of what marriage is, and about constitutional rights.

BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

Reply to BigMac

Our future is in our children, and promoting families.
Gay marraige is a dead end solution.

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

Quote :

Definitely start drinking, definitely.

Rob? Auburn?

Actually, that sentence before didn't even seem to make sense. If one is wondering whether or not to sober up, then it would seem that drinking has already started, would it not?

War Eagle
"Operation Can't Do Nuthin' About It is now in effect!" -Flavor Flav

Reply to Auburn9698

wats a game widout da catcha?

_____________________________________________
 And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign

Reply to RichPLS

chess?

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

Gay marriage hmm... I could care less if they get married.

I see an up-side to gay couples that are same sex they provide a caring loving home for adopted children that would otherwise have to grow up in children's aid.

When a person is gay they are born that way as the brain is formed in the womb, it has very little to do with their environment after that fact accept that the environment provides the person with a choice depending on what they like.

If there is an open gay movement public to everyone and they openly proclaim how they feel is that not better then having them hide like mutants in dark corners ? At the very least they are not religious fanatics that cause war death and cruelty world wide like the rest of us normal people.

I am not defending gay I am simply pointing out that gay is a fact of life for so many people world wide that we better lean to deal with it. However every time I read the instructions it still says insert tab A into slot B and not slot B into tab A. :wink:

GOD LOVES CANADA

Reply to SoDNighthawk

Quote :

But I want the fact that my wife and I are propagating the species, co mingling our DNA and producing future generations acknolwedged as something special and different. That is what marriage is in my book. Two men or two women are not doing that and that's the way it is.

So infertile people shouldn't be allowed to get married either?

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Thats settled then, anyone couple that cant/decides not to have children should not be allowed to marry. By order of RichPLS

Reply to jammydodger

Some specimins should not be allowed to procreate anyway.

I seem to be famous for my 34Cs. Seig Heil!

Reply to Hot_Nicola

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other WTF is the deal w gay marriage?

Please mind