New game: The Dreamhold

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

The Dreamhold is my interactive fiction tutorial game. It's designed
for people who have never played IF before. It introduces the common
commands and mindset of text adventures, one step at a time. There's
an extensive help system describing standard IF commands, as well as
dynamic hints which pop up whenever you seem to be stuck.

Of course, you can turn off the hints and the tutorials, and play The
Dreamhold as a real game. The puzzles are not extremely difficult, but
they should offer some challenge to both experienced players and
newcomers. (If the challenge is insufficient, there's an "expert" mode
which makes some of the puzzles harder.) There are also many optional
bits to explore beyond the main storyline.

I've tried to create a game which rewards many species of adventurer:
the inexperienced newcomer, the puzzle-hurdler, the casual tourist,
the meticulous explorer, the wild experimenter, the seeker after
nuances and implications. I was aiming at a fairly old-school feel.
There's a lot to do -- much of it is optional, but I don't expect
you to play straight through, reach the end, and feel like you've seen
the whole game. There will always be a little bit more to kick around
and try.

(Well, until the tidal wave that is the Internet vacuums my game dry
of secrets, which really I expect to happen within three days. But if
you don't peek at what everyone else has discovered, The Dreamhold
should keep you amused for a while.)

The game has had some playtesting from both community folk and non-IF
friends. Obviously, I'm interested in more experiences, particularly
from more IF newbies.

Available at <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/ftp/dreamhold.z8>
and (currently) <http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/unprocessed/>.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Why can't you light the torch on the candles in the study?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Adrian Fänger

> Why can't you light the torch on the candles in the study?


>touch candles
The flames radiate no heat.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:10:35 GMT, "Fríða Kjartansdóttir"
<yahoo@mail.com> (replies to <"Fríða Kjartansdóttir"
<yahoo@mail.com>>) wrote:

> Adrian Fänger
>
> > Why can't you light the torch on the candles in the study?

Speaking of vacuuming secrets...

[spoiler space]

































> >touch candles
> The flames radiate no heat.

There. That's better.

--
Jason Melancon
 

pj

Distinguished
Apr 12, 2004
205
0
18,680
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

I like the layout of the game so far, but I'm a little baffled by the
hint system. The only hints that I've gotten came when I didn't need
them and, now that I'm stuck, I haven't got any more hints.. An
example is below:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

On top of the catwalk over the dome, I see a mask on a small ledge. I
have already used the orange berries to get the fire burning below, so
the shadow is nearly touching the wall. After trying vainly to reach
the mask without stepping on the shadow (which seems dangerous), I am
about to walk around the catwalk once more when the hint system tells
me something like "did you read the description closely." With that
overly firm nudge, I walk back, step on the shadow, and grab the mask.

Meanwhile, after collecting a bunch of masks (brown, black, blue, etc.)
I have no clue (yet) as to how to get to the catwalk in the great
cistern to get the red mask. After wandering around awhile, and going
in and out of the cistern and lowering the floor level several times, I
thought of one idea to implement but had to quit at that point. But I
haven't got any related hints yet. The help system is vague enough to
be meaningless. Is there some move-based logic to when, where and how
the hints are delivered? If not, I'm not sure this is the easiest way
to get newbies to want to do an adventure.

Just one man's opinion.

PJ
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

> I like the layout of the game so far, but I'm a little baffled by the
> hint system. The only hints that I've gotten came when I didn't need
> them and, now that I'm stuck, I haven't got any more hints.. An
> example is below:

<snipped e.g.>

I had a very similar experience (and I'm not the greatest IF player
ever) - I actually managed to "solve" quite a few puzzles by random
acts, rather than thinking things through and therefore never saw any
hints for them (also, this meant I didn't necessarily know what it was
that I had achieved or how it helped me) - conversely, I only once got
a hint when I really "needed" it.
e.gs below

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

I think I've nearly finished the puzzles, so I *really* mean that this
will be spoiler-y if you're in the middle of the game

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

I solved the "red mask on the mountain" puzzle completely accidentally
- I just lit that bonfire before I was even aware that there was a red
mask. For that puzzle, it might have been better to have the copper
sail in the 'wrong' position to start with, so that at least you had to
figure out what the bonfire did, and how it could help. I just lit it,
hopped out of the dome, and sauntered over to the mask, without really
realising that I'd "achieved" this, if you see what I mean.

Likewise, I immediately put on the glove when I found it (on the
principle that it might hold memories too), so the subsequent puzzles
were solved without me having to try. The messages you get for that
are geared towards people who've tried without gloves first, otherwise
I wouldn't have realised, again, that I had actually "achieved"
anything in particular. With that puzzle, perhaps it would be better
to have had the glove in a place that you *didn't* have to pass through
to get to the garden, then there'd be less chance of "solving" it by
accident, as it were.

In fact, the only place where I got a hint that was "useful" was by the
river, although I found the hint to preemptory - it appeared before I'd
had the chance to try anything for myself (I would have got there
without help, I think).

Obviously, I realise that the game's geared towards beginners, and
hence the linearity of the puzzles, so this is just opinion and YMMV
etc, etc. Having said that, some things seemed extremely challenging.
The Cistern room, for example, confused the heck out of me. I did
solve it (again, more by luck than logic), but I don't think I had/have
a good mental picture of the structure or workings of that room - I
found the descriptions confusing; if I hadn't "got lucky" with the
guessed use of an object I doubt I'd've solved it via logic, and I'd've
found it very frustrating to understand.

Having said all that; I found that the "help strategy" hints were
extremely pointed and useful, and the game itself was beautifully done;
especially the study at the beginning. I don't remember coming across
any obvious bugs or incongruous messages (although I doubt I tried
anything particularly novel). What I think was missing were hints for
the game itself; either I didn't get them, or they were too late/not
helpful. What might be useful would be to increase the hints, so that
when you get stuck or frustrated and type "help me" (or similar), you
could get hints such as "There are still 3 rooms you have not
explored", or "there are 2 tasks you have yet to achieve" or "there is
a mask missing from your collection - try an artistic approach". That
might well be too complex, I guess. Then again, that would be just
like having a game with invisiclues, so it might defeat the whole
purpose. Generally I'd say the "help" topic was excellent for the
basics, but not so helpful with the specifics of this particular game.

I'm currently stuck in what I believe to be the end-game. I've had a
message telling me I have all the masks, and I've had an interesting
experience with a room which changed for a single move, but appears not
to want to change back (and I don't know what it meant). There's a
sense-hint (I think) about what to do now, but I can't seem to progress
with it, and I'm really at a loss. Pointers would be appreciated.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Thanks for the hint (I notice there was an in-game one too, but only
when you were in the right location - would be helpful to have it
appear elsewhere?).

Further thoughts;
I don't think I completely understood the mask-logic - solved again by
trial and error, since my "thinking through" didn't seem to get
anywhere. I'm not sure I managed to make the right connections. The
final puzzles seemed straightforward though.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

r.e. the masks (spoilers!)
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
>There might be some other significance to the order, but I solved the
>masks puzzle by ordering them from warm colours to cold colours

That never occured to me - I tried to associate with the
stars/constellations, and then with a consistent storyline, then with
the artifacts mentioned (e.g. buckler, string). In the end it was just
trial and error.

I'd be interested to know how many endings there are (a review just
posted mentions four or five) - I only discovered two (well, one, and
then the same one in many places...); after the masks I found there was
a pretty directed & obvious path to a "finish".

Having said that, the mural suggested to me that I'd missed many paths,
since I didn't possess everything in it; obviously the game requires
lots more playthroughs....:)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <1102596613.955454.104460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Angel Fish <writeto_angelfish@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I had a very similar experience (and I'm not the greatest IF player
>ever) - I actually managed to "solve" quite a few puzzles by random
>acts, rather than thinking things through and therefore never saw any
>hints for them (also, this meant I didn't necessarily know what it was
>that I had achieved or how it helped me) - conversely, I only once got
>a hint when I really "needed" it.
>e.gs below
>
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>
>I think I've nearly finished the puzzles, so I *really* mean that this
>will be spoiler-y if you're in the middle of the game
>
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>
>I solved the "red mask on the mountain" puzzle completely accidentally
>- I just lit that bonfire before I was even aware that there was a red
>mask. For that puzzle, it might have been better to have the copper
>sail in the 'wrong' position to start with, so that at least you had to
>figure out what the bonfire did, and how it could help. I just lit it,
>hopped out of the dome, and sauntered over to the mask, without really
>realising that I'd "achieved" this, if you see what I mean.

I believe this is one of the "expert" differences -- I played the game
through in "expert" mode first and IIRC the sail was in the wrong position.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <1102605571.102203.127640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Angel Fish <writeto_angelfish@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>r.e. the masks (spoilers!)
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>>There might be some other significance to the order, but I solved the
>>masks puzzle by ordering them from warm colours to cold colours
>
>That never occured to me - I tried to associate with the
>stars/constellations, and then with a consistent storyline, then with
>the artifacts mentioned (e.g. buckler, string). In the end it was just
>trial and error.

I believe they are in time order.

>I'd be interested to know how many endings there are (a review just
>posted mentions four or five) - I only discovered two (well, one, and
>then the same one in many places...); after the masks I found there was
>a pretty directed & obvious path to a "finish".

I found four: Death, redrawing the portal, completing the black mask,
the mural-related one. I'm not sure if the last is possible in
non-expert mode, as I wasn't able to obtain a certain item in that
mode.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cp6440$6kg$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Andrew Plotkin <erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote:
>The Dreamhold is my interactive fiction tutorial game. It's designed
>for people who have never played IF before.

Excellent! Vintage Zarf!

I'm only about halfway through (I think), but I can highly
recommend what I've seen this far. And don't be fooled by what
Zarf writes above: it may be designed for beginners, but it's far
from trivial (easy, perhaps, but non-trivial).

Is there a little nod to Uncle Zebulon, by the way (when trying to
perform a certain action with the mirror)?

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cp6440$6kg$1@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin
<erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote:
> The Dreamhold is my interactive fiction tutorial game. It's designed
> for people who have never played IF before. It introduces the common
> commands and mindset of text adventures, one step at a time. There's
> an extensive help system describing standard IF commands, as well as
> dynamic hints which pop up whenever you seem to be stuck.

Nifty!

Using Nitfol 0.5 under OS X, I get the following message at every
prompt:

[WARN: output]: input buffer overlaps parse (1) 62909 (-27907, -27786)

Some poking around in Google's usenet archive seems to indicate that
this may be an Inform library bug rather than a Nitfol bug--is that the
case, or should I be looking for a new interpreter?

- Damien
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Angel Fish wrote:

> I'm currently stuck in what I believe to be the end-game.

(SPOILERS)

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..


> I've had a
> message telling me I have all the masks, and I've had an interesting
> experience with a room which changed for a single move, but appears not
> to want to change back (and I don't know what it meant). There's a
> sense-hint (I think) about what to do now, but I can't seem to progress
> with it, and I'm really at a loss. Pointers would be appreciated.

You'll notice that the masks are not designed to fit the PC's face.
Try to find a face the masks will fit.

Stephen.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Angel Fish wrote:

> I don't think I completely understood the mask-logic - solved again by
> trial and error, since my "thinking through" didn't seem to get
> anywhere. I'm not sure I managed to make the right connections. The
> final puzzles seemed straightforward though.

(SPOILERS)
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

There might be some other significance to the order, but I solved the
masks puzzle by ordering them from warm colours to cold colours, with
white and black being the two extremes. This colour sequence appears in
at least one other area of the game.

Also, when you say "final puzzles", well... further spoilers, I guess....

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

There's optionally a lot of stuff you can still do after the masks
puzzle. (Assuming you haven't done it already.) At least, I wouldn't
regard the masks puzzle as being part of the endgame.

Stephen.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Here, Damien Neil <neild-usenet@misago.org> wrote:
> In article <cp6440$6kg$1@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin
> <erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote:
> > The Dreamhold is my interactive fiction tutorial game. It's designed
> > for people who have never played IF before. It introduces the common
> > commands and mindset of text adventures, one step at a time. There's
> > an extensive help system describing standard IF commands, as well as
> > dynamic hints which pop up whenever you seem to be stuck.
>
> Nifty!
>
> Using Nitfol 0.5 under OS X, I get the following message at every
> prompt:
>
> [WARN: output]: input buffer overlaps parse (1) 62909 (-27907, -27786)
>
> Some poking around in Google's usenet archive seems to indicate that
> this may be an Inform library bug rather than a Nitfol bug--is that the
> case, or should I be looking for a new interpreter?

That looks like the bug filed as
<http://www.inform-fiction.org/patches/L60708.html>. It's been in the
Inform library forever (well, since 6/7, more likely 6/1). It wasn't
fixed until 6/11, but my game is based on 6/10. (Like I said, I
started it a year and a half ago.)

I will put in the fix for it, but Nitfol is going to throw that
error on most Inform 6 games. Adjust your expectations accordingly.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <dJ-dna499dU-8iXcRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>,
Matthew Russotto <russotto@grace.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>In article <1102605571.102203.127640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>Angel Fish <writeto_angelfish@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>r.e. the masks (spoilers!)
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>
>>I'd be interested to know how many endings there are (a review just
>>posted mentions four or five) - I only discovered two (well, one, and
>>then the same one in many places...); after the masks I found there was
>>a pretty directed & obvious path to a "finish".
>
>I found four: Death, redrawing the portal, completing the black mask,
>the mural-related one. I'm not sure if the last is possible in
>non-expert mode, as I wasn't able to obtain a certain item in that
>mode.

I've found the portal and death. Anyone want to give me a hint on completing
the mask? And on getting the dagger and the buckler?

--
David Goldfarb |"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | were weak and stupid people -- and that's why
goldfarb@csua.berkeley.edu | we have wolves and other large predators."
| -- The Far Side
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cpjlum$1cco$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
David Goldfarb <goldfarb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>
>
>I've found the portal and death. Anyone want to give me a hint on completing
>the mask? And on getting the dagger and the buckler?

While I'm at it, is there anything to be done with the scrap of gauze, or
the black pedestal?

--
David Goldfarb |
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | Private .sig -- please do not read.
goldfarb@csua.berkeley.edu |
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cpjm7u$1cig$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
David Goldfarb <goldfarb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>In article <cpjlum$1cco$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>David Goldfarb <goldfarb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>
>>
>>I've found the portal and death. Anyone want to give me a hint on completing
>>the mask? And on getting the dagger and the buckler?
>
>While I'm at it, is there anything to be done with the scrap of gauze, or
>the black pedestal?
>

The scrap of gauze is useful in the cistern. And IIRC that's how you
get the buckler. I have no idea about the dagger or the pedestal.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <3254rdF3i5pckU1@individual.net>,
Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
>In article <cpjm7u$1cig$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>David Goldfarb <goldfarb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>In article <cpjlum$1cco$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>>David Goldfarb <goldfarb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've found the portal and death. Anyone want to give me a hint on completing
>>>the mask? And on getting the dagger and the buckler?
>>
>>While I'm at it, is there anything to be done with the scrap of gauze, or
>>the black pedestal?
>>
>
>The scrap of gauze is useful in the cistern. And IIRC that's how you
>get the buckler. I have no idea about the dagger or the pedestal.

Ah, yes. Thanks. And I managed to find the remains of the black mask....

--
David Goldfarb |"To summarize the summary of the summary:
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | People are a problem."
goldfarb@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Douglas Adams