Dreamhold hint system (SPOILERS)

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I've now seen a few people say that the hint system wasn't very well
handled. (Kicking in too early or too late.) I'm trying to think of
ways to improve it.

As you all noticed, the "HELP" command deals solely with "how to play
IF" help -- it doesn't have any game-specific hints. I had originally
considered having a separate "HINT" command, which would display a
context-specific hint. However, after three rewrites of the paragraph
which explained this distinction, I decided it was silly -- there
wasn't any point to burdening newcomers with the distinction. So I
put all the hints in the pro-active Tutorial Voice.

Now, that seems to work pretty well for the first few rooms. (Although
I have at least one report from someone who watched a newbie fail to
leave the first room. Lacking a transcript, I'm not sure exactly how
that went wrong.)

When it comes to the goals of the body of the game -- the seven masks
-- I had more trouble rigging up pro-active hints. How do I know when
the player is stuck?

Since all those puzzles involve a mask which is out of reach, I wound
up using a simple scheme -- if the player types "GET MASK" a couple of
times in a row, I assume he needs a hint. Actually, any verb that
tries to touch the mask will work. I can imagine the player trying a
series of un-useful commands like "TOUCH MASK", "GO TO MASK", "BLOW ON
MASK", and none of the puzzles are actually solved that way, so I take
them as cries for help. As it were.

(I take other actions as cries for help, too, depending on the
situation. "NORTH" on the mountain peak, "WEST" by the river, etc.)

Obviously this may or may not work for a given person and a given
puzzle. But I can't think of ways to improve it. Ideas?

I still don't want to put in an explicit "HINT" command. By the time a
(newbie) player is deep into the game, he'd likely have forgotten that
there *were* two distinct help commands.

Have the "HELP" command list a separate option -- "HELP ME" or "HELP
GAME" or "HELP STUCK" or "HELP MASK" -- which gives a local game hint?

Give an explicit instruction early on -- or in the "HELP" text -- that
if you're stuck, just keep trying and the hints will come by
themselves?

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.
 
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Andrew Plotkin wrote:
<snip>
>
>
> Have the "HELP" command list a separate option -- "HELP ME" or "HELP
> GAME" or "HELP STUCK" or "HELP MASK" -- which gives a local game
hint?
>

I'd've absolutely favoured this approach; it was something I tried
(typing "help: object") and it was quite frustrating to find myself in
a game full of useful advice, but nothing relevant to the situation I
was stuck in! I guess it would be possible to tie generalist advice to
more specific hints (e.g. "Help Mask" -> "If the text highlights
objects this means they're probably important. Try using them blah
blah....For a specific hint, have you tried wearing it...etc)
I think that for a newbie to IF, typing "help:eek:bject" or "help:task"
would be fairly instinctive, even if it's not specifically mentioned in
the tutorial voice at any point.
AF
 
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>Give an explicit instruction early on -- or in the "HELP" text -- that
>if you're stuck, just keep trying and the hints will come by
>themselves?

I think the problem here is there's a couple bits where there's no hint
at all (or at least, they're localized and it isn't obvious where the location
is), so someone may type >HIT SELF 30 times in an attempt to
get useful feedback, and get even more annoyed than they normally
would be.

(Incidentally, if the player uses the ATTACK verb more than once, that's
a good cue a hint may be needed. Also, various swear words.)

-- Jason Dyer
 
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 03:09:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
<erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote:
>Obviously this may or may not work for a given person and a given
>puzzle. But I can't think of ways to improve it. Ideas?
>
>I still don't want to put in an explicit "HINT" command. By the time a
>(newbie) player is deep into the game, he'd likely have forgotten that
>there *were* two distinct help commands.
>
>Have the "HELP" command list a separate option -- "HELP ME" or "HELP
>GAME" or "HELP STUCK" or "HELP MASK" -- which gives a local game hint?
>
>Give an explicit instruction early on -- or in the "HELP" text -- that
>if you're stuck, just keep trying and the hints will come by
>themselves?


This is maybe a little oblique to what you're asking, but it's where
my mind went.

Perhaps a mode wherein the proactive tutorial voice works according to
the same mechanism as always, but never speaks on its own. At the
player's explicit prompting, the tutorial voice chimes in, saying
whatever the last thing it *would* have said were it not gagged.
 
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In article <cpqu8r$n7$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Andrew Plotkin <erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote:
>(I take other actions as cries for help, too, depending on the
>situation. "NORTH" on the mountain peak, "WEST" by the river, etc.)

The hint system actually spoiled the river puzzle for me: I arrived
at the river, tried a few actions, and got a hint without asking
for it or even wanting it. Far too early, IMHO.

>Obviously this may or may not work for a given person and a given
>puzzle. But I can't think of ways to improve it. Ideas?

One thing you could do, to stop the hint system from spoiling things,
is to ask if I need one. Like ADVENT did: "You seem to be stuck. Do you
want some help?".

>I still don't want to put in an explicit "HINT" command. By the time a
>(newbie) player is deep into the game, he'd likely have forgotten that
>there *were* two distinct help commands.

That's a good point. And not just for newbies: even with some
experience under my belt, I tend to forget whether I should type
"help" or "hint" in a given situation.

>Have the "HELP" command list a separate option -- "HELP ME" or "HELP
>GAME" or "HELP STUCK" or "HELP MASK" -- which gives a local game hint?

That could be a good idea. If nothing else, being able to ask for a hint
gives me that warm, fuzzy feeling that somebody's there to help me.

>Give an explicit instruction early on -- or in the "HELP" text -- that
>if you're stuck, just keep trying and the hints will come by
>themselves?

Well, I suppose that has the same drawback as separate "help" and "hint"
commands - players may forget this, or not even read it.

And I have two problems with hints coming by themselves: a) they may
come prematurely, spoiling puzzles, and b) what if they don't come?
What if I'm stuck, but the game doesn't realize it?


--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol