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Eizo FlexScan S2000: A-MVA... Really?

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March 23, 2007 3:22:55 PM

Hi2all,

I'm looking for a quality 1600x1200 monitor (for my other workstation) w/o going overboard (eg. Eizo CG/CE Product lines...) and I've only seen a few candidates, seeing as widescreens all the rage. One of said candidates is an NEC 90-series panel, their LCD2190UXi, their LCD2190UXp,and the other is an Eizo FlexScan S2000.

The 2190(i) uses an S-IPS (SA-SFT) panel and boasts 178/178 viewing angles, 10ms(g2g) Response Time , 250 nits & a not-so-impressive 500:1 contrast.

The 2190(p) uses an S-PVA (Samsung) panel rated at 178/178, 8ms(g2g), 300 nits & a 1000:1 contrast.

The 2000 uses an A-MVA panel* rated at 178/178, 8ms(G2G), 300 nits & 1000:1.

Wait a sec, A-MVA? This so-called "new" panel from AUO is being used in a monitor that's been on sale since (at least) Aug. 2006...! I don't understand how that could be, unless Eizo swapped out the panel in the S2000 recently... . Such a panel does exist; that is to say, AUO manufactures A-MVA 20.1" panels (M201UN02 V6 & M201UN03 V0)) so anything's possible.

Anyone own an S2000 and if so, could you please check (via model / part numbers and/or manufacturing date) what panel you think it might be using?

Besides BenQ's newest 24" monitor (eg. FP241WZ or FP241VW), I don't know of any other monitor using A-MVA panels and would love to see a review (or two) of any monitor using such a panel. Although I love my new P-MVA based FP241W, I have to admit that blacker blacks would definately be a bonus and that's what AUO promises (sort of) with their A-MVA screens... .


* Please note that the specs I linked to above are from Eizo's German website while Eizo has different specs (w/o panel indication) on their standard website...
a b C Monitor
March 23, 2007 7:29:50 PM

The two best candidates look like the IPS and AMVA. I wonder how close AMVA comes to IPS color shift/viewing angle. I also wonder if AMVA suffers from the same problems as other MVA panels with dark to dark transitions.
March 27, 2007 1:06:29 PM

Quote:
wonder how close AMVA comes to IPS color shift/viewing angle [&] if AMVA suffers ... dark to dark transitions.


That makes (at least) two of us. I'd love to see some reviews of any monitor using an A-MVA panel. I'm still not sure if the FP241WZ uses it and since all reviews are concentrated on its BFI technology, I doubt that they would think to study the panel itself... .

The only item I've found (on a respectable review site) is an Eizo press article listed @ PRAD which notes A-MVA tech being used and said article was published ~8.2006 so I guess it's safe to say that 1. The Eizo S2000 probably does use an A-MVA and 2. the panel technology is not as new as I assumed it to be... .

If anyone comes across a review of any LCD Monitor using an A-MVA panel, please post a link - muchos gracias :) 
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March 27, 2007 1:23:04 PM

Quote:
"... The 2190(i) uses an S-IPS (SA-SFT) panel and boasts 178/178 viewing angles, 10ms(g2g) Response Time , 250 nits & a not-so-impressive 500:1 contrast.
[/i]

Impressive or not, it's more likely to be reality. Basically, they are revealing the "expected actual black level" to be measured at approximately 0.5 nits (Claimed Brightness / Claimed Contrast Ratio = 250/500 = 0.5 nits of black level)... a bit below average, lower is better.

I recently ran through all of X-Bit Labs reviews of monitors 19" and larger to see the difference between "claimed expected black level" and "X-Bit measured black level".... sometimes the measured values were close to the claimed, sometimes not.

Realistically, all you can hope for is a black level of "0.5 nits" when the brightness is set to "100 nits"... that's an actual 200:1 contrast ratio. Anything better is a bonus.

I also recently read a review of the Samsung 971P where the measured black was "0.1 nits". Assuming that is accurate, the user would experience an actual 1000:1 CR with Brightness = 100 nits.

Makers would be doing the market a favor if they concentrated on achieving "darker blacks" rather than "brain-burning brightness"... :( 

FWIW... Samsung's PVA/S-PVA panels scored consistently best at "best [lower] black levels".
March 30, 2007 12:10:25 PM

Quote:
...they have chosen to use AUO's A-MVA M201UN03.

Thx a bunch for the head's up :D 
The quotations below seem to be the key comments on the panel itself (without being able to discuss color as the LED tech. is clearly behind the massive gamut):

"This is a typical result of MVA 8ms monitors. Here, this MVA is qualified as A, for Advanced. From our point of view, we don’t see the difference compared to P-MVAs (P for Premium) in games, unless you really scrutinize the scene over and over. In this case, the A-MVA (Samsung XL20) looks a bit faster."

"As for the XL20, its angles are quite good. This is less impressive than with IPS monitors (they have been the reference for years) but it is better than P-MVAs."

"For twinkling [sparkling], we didn’t notice any improvements compared to P-MVA panels. A-MVAs aren’t better but neither are they worse. Twinkling is visible for someone looking for it from a distance inferior to 2 meters. It is, however, more discreet than with TN, PVA and IPS panels."


Well, I'd say that the view angle improvement is a plus but I wouldn't loose any sleep over buying an obsolete P-MVA panel, not when the improvements to response times, blacks and this so-called sparkling effect has not been improved.... .

This leaves me still yearning for a panel with P-MVA's good video playback quality and the blacks from an S-PVA panel. For my needs, the current set of 6-8ms (g2g) panels are more than fast enough, so this is no longer a critical issue (for me). Sigh...
a b C Monitor
March 30, 2007 4:32:22 PM

Quote:
"For twinkling [sparkling], we didn’t notice any improvements compared to P-MVA panels. A-MVAs aren’t better but neither are they worse. Twinkling is visible for someone looking for it from a distance inferior to 2 meters. It is, however, more discreet than with TN, PVA and IPS panels."
[/i] What is twinkling? Try as I might, absolutely nobody anywhere on the internet seems to want to explain what this is (even behardware never explains what they are referring to).
April 1, 2007 12:56:24 AM

Quote:

What is twinkling?

I'm assuming that it's the shimmering textures in movies that otherwise should be static. Looks like a funny type of grain close-up.

But of course, I'm assuming that's what the reviewers are referring to. If that's not the case, then I have a sparkle-free moitor, which I kind of doubt... . I know, you were hoping for a link to some site that has a technical description, but I've also never found one - but if I do...
April 4, 2007 10:58:50 AM

Quote:
What is twinkling? ... even behardware never explains what they are referring to.


Btw, have you read BEHardware's article, "ATI and NVIDIA correct the twinkling effect of LCDs in movies"?

I don't know if it will really answer your question but it does confirm that the problem exists... :cry: 

P.S. (...edit:)  It seems that sparkling / twinkling is the magnification of existing "noise" produced by the compression of video. This was more or less outlined by the above article in its conclusion:

"it compensates for the downsides of many LCDs that tend to overly accentuate a sequence’s compression imperfections."
a b C Monitor
April 5, 2007 1:05:58 AM

Quote:
What is twinkling? ... even behardware never explains what they are referring to.


Btw, have you read BEHardware's article, "ATI and NVIDIA correct the twinkling effect of LCDs in movies"?

I don't know if it will really answer your question but it does confirm that the problem exists... :cry: 

P.S. (...edit:)  It seems that sparkling / twinkling is the magnification of existing "noise" produced by the compression of video. This was more or less outlined by the above article in its conclusion:

"it compensates for the downsides of many LCDs that tend to overly accentuate a sequence’s compression imperfections."
So it's showing the video correctly/more accurately than a CRT? I have seen that article, but it never really explained what it was, nor did I really see much of a differences between the different examples/screenshots.
April 5, 2007 10:52:59 PM

Quote:
So it's showing the video correctly/more accurately than a CRT?
No, at least that's not how I read it. More like an LCD amplifies existing video compression noise... .

Speaking of sparkling, a similar (but unrelated) problem is the glitter-like appearance of larger, solid-colored areas of an image when viewed too close up. This characteristic was thought to prevail on IPS-based panels but a review of Eizo's S-PVA based S2111W posted over at PRAD (alas, in German) noted the very same effect.

Their conclusion was that it wasn't a problem associated with a specific panel technology, but based on the screen's anti-glare coating. Just thought I'd mention that for those that are bothered by this trait (I've never noticed it on the few LCDs I've worked on)
April 16, 2007 5:30:59 PM

Anybody here who got a s2000 and can tell us something about the general experience? I'm particullary interested in games.
!