RAM choices for 8244OLX Chipset

Can I use PC100 SDRAM in this old Gateway 300S box that calls for PC66 RAM? It currently has 3 32mb sticks and I would like to install 3 X 128mb. Main reason is that the 100mb sticks could be recycled into other boxes here on my little net once the Gateway croaks.All the pins match up and there seem to be more $$$ bargains on PC100 than PC66.

Thanks for the reply......I am a little lost on this subject. After a little research on the Newegg site I came up with a chip from Crucial (#CT16M64S4D75). Would this be a good choice for the 82440LX Gateway and Also for my 82440BX Asus P2B-LS box? (I seem to have a lot of old stuff around here)

As Crucial Labs said. <A HREF="http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr+Productline=ASUS++Motherboards&mfr=ASUS&cat=RAM&model=P2B-LS&submit=Go" target="_new">HERE'S A LIST</A> of modules for the Asus board, they also work on the Gateway board with the possible exception of the ECC modules, which I wouldn't bother with for either board.

If a different seller has these modules for a lower price, go for it. You can see that the modules you asked about ARE listed. Also, the PC100 modules use the same componenets as the PC133 modules.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

I have some interesting news for you: Intel lists the maximum memory on the AL440LX and SE440BX (as well as their OEM versions and alterations) as supporting 128MB/slot. That's where Gateway got their number from. BUT!!!!

READ this: The first module I suggested? It works on all of them. That means 256MB max per slot and 768MB total. And that's why I suggested that module in the first place.

You see, I'm the motherboard expert here, not Gateway, not even Intel. Do the engineers know more than me? Of course! But the engineers often publish lower number for fear of people installing inferior parts. Worse yet, boardmakers often test their boards with only whatever parts they have on hand at the time of the board's release, and seldom retest them. Documentation is their mainstay, once a product is released they do no more work except to correct problems that come back to them.

What all that means is that engineering documentation is rarely current and often comprimised in order to insure support for lower quality parts. Because of that, the only real way to find out what works and what doesn't, absent of THEIR testing, is to test things yourself.

And that's what I've done. I've tested nearly every mainstream BX and LX board. I've come across a few BIOS limits on memory, but NOT from the major boardmakers (Intel, Abit, Aopen, Asus, Atrend, Azza, Biostar...the list is huge). Because Gateway's Intel boards use unmodified Intel core BIOS (only the Gateway logo is added), they follow the same rules as Intel boards. If you hated gateway and wanted your BIOS to display Intel, you could load the Intel factory BIOS for that matter (after checking the first 4 letters of the BIOS version to make certain you got the right BIOS).

More news, with most BIOS versions your board will support 768MB of RAM AND a Celeron 700 (I haven't tested the 733 or 766), BUT since the VRM 8.2 doesn't support core voltages below 1.80v you'd need to use an adapter that either has it's own VRM or, better yet, an adapter with adjustable voltage detection jumpered to 1.80v. You can get those from Computersurplusoutlet.com. There IS a BIOS lockout preventing Coppermines from booting on newer BIOSes (starting in around 2001), so compatability may require you have several BIOS versions available to try (ie, best to use the newest one without the Coppermine lockout).

So with the right parts your board can support 768MB RAM and at least a Celeron 700 (and probably a Celeron 733 or 766). Now let's get on to your P2B-LS!

The entire P2B series supports up to 10x multipliers, with higher multiplier support on BIOS version 1014 Beta 3. With the new BIOS you can run a Celeron 1400 on a tualatin adapter, or a PIII-S 1400 if your board also supports 133MHz bus (depends on version). And the ultimate bang for the buck, a Celeron 1100 Tualatin overclocked to 1466/133. Also your P2B-LS probably has 4 RAM slots, which means it supports up to 1GB of RAM!!!

I looked up the site of someone who knows everything I know on the P2B series and actually has documented everything: <A HREF="http://homepage.swissonline.ch/rscheidegger/p2b_procupgrade_faq.html" target="_new">http://homepage.swissonline.ch/rscheidegger/p2b_procupgrade_faq.html</A>

Now imagine your Gateway with a Celeron 700 and 768MB RAM, and your P2B-LS with a PIII-S 1400 and 1GB of RAM, and you're going places fast!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Funny stuff: Asus had several versions of the P2B. And each version had several revisions!

Most of their boards supported Coppermine's natively. The ealiest revisions of some versions didn't, simply because those early boards had a voltage regulator with 1.80v minimum output. If you had the earliest boards using VRM 8.2, you could still use a coppermine, but you'd have to modify the voltage detection to 1.80v (or higher if you wished) in order to have the VRM work (otherwise, no boot).

So those are the less common early boards. As I said, most of them were Coppermine compatable natively, meaning they used VRM 8.4, minimal core voltage 1.30v.

Since most had VRM 8.4, the they "officially" supported up to the PIII 1000E according to specifications, not board-specific documentation. But the 1000E (100MHz FSB) was RARE!

So for many versions of the board Asus tested the PIII 700E and said "It works, it's approved". And they left it at that, ignoring the 750E, 800E, and 850E which were also fairly common, not to mention the rare 900E and 1000E. That means the majority of users think their board supports up to a PIII 700, and that's it...

I've tested all VRM 8.4 versions with an Upgradeware Slot-T adapter and a Tualatin Celeron 1100. Most would allow me to overclock it to 150MHz FSB, 1650MHz CPU!

Then there's the bus speed: The BX could easily reach 150MHz FSB, but because the AGP dividers were only 1:1 and 2:3, they were only approved for 100MHz bus operation by Intel. Asus went ahead and made their boards overclockable. Around 1/2 of them came with jumper settings for 133MHz FSB. The rest could be modified, but I wouldn't bother.

So processor support is, at minimum:

PIII 450 Slot 1, Mendicino (PPGA) Celeron 533 via Slot 1 adapter.

But since most boards were VRM 8.4, they could support:
PIII 1000E, 900E, 850E, 800E, 750E, etc Slot 1;
Socket 370 PIII (E)s via a PIII compatable Slot 1 adapter.
Tualatins via a Tualatin compatable Slot 1 adapter.

And 133MHz bus was an option for around 1/2 the boards so long as you made sure any AGP card could operate at the off-spec speed.

ANYTHING requiring a Slot 1 adapter isn't going to be "official". So that's why you're not going to hear about that from Intel, Asus, etc.

Now, there are 5 kinds of Slot 1 to Socket 370 adapter:
1.) Mendicino Celeron adapters, these were the earliest
2.) Coppermine Adapters, like the earlier adapters but slightly rewired to work with both cores. Required VRM 8.4 for Coppermines
3.) Coppermine with onboard VRM, used for putting 1.50-1.75v processor on VRM 8.2 boards.
4.) Tualatin compatable adapters for boards with VRM 8.4
5.) Tualatin adapter with onboards.

The 2nd and 4th versions are also available with pins to set the detected CPU voltage. So a Coppermine adapter with that ability can trick a VRM 8.2 board into giving the CPU 1.80v rather than, say 1.75v which doesn't work with VRM 8.2.

Your head hurt yet?

Anyway, the best 100MHz bus solution for your board is the Celeron 1400. The two adapters you can use are the Upgradeware Slot-T (around $20) and the Powerleap IP3/T (around $60). The IP3/T is compatable with ALL boards while the Slot-T requires VRM 8.4. Unlike Coppermines, Tualatins should NEVER be set to 1.80v.

The Slot-T is more reliable because the VRM on the Upgradeware unit isn't that great. So if you have VRM 8.4, go with the Slot-T, and if you're stuck with VRM 8.2, you'll also be stuck with the more expensive IP3/T.

Also, the board will perform better at 133MHz FSB, assuming your board supports it. The page I linked you to has another link to another page with information about which AGP video cards work with the elevated AGP clock. 133MHz FSB allows for such great performance options as a Tualatin Celeron 1100@1466 and PIII-S 1400.



<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

OH, boy! OK, so I'll also have to assume that your board won't do 133MHz FSB without modification, which you wouldn't want to do (few people would). And move on!

All Coppermine core processors can be ran at 1.80v, you'd need an adapter that has adjustable voltage detection to do that (unless you're up for modifying your CPU or adapter, which is a "graduate course", hehe). That would be a cheap rout using an adapter with the correct jumpers, those are however hard to find now.

OK, there is one adapter that would work and is easy to find, the Upgradeware Slot-T, because it works with both Coppermine and Tualatin processors. Of course it wouldn't work with a Tualatin on YOUR board, because Tualatins will burn up at 1.80v. But a Coppermine would be fine.

The reason I hesitate about the Upgradeware Slot-T with Coppermines is because it cost over 2x the price of traditional (now hard to find) adapters with the same jumpers. It's $20, while the others tend to go for around $8.

Still, the $20 adapter and a Coppermine Celeron 1000 or 1100 would do the job well.

How can you tell if a CPU is Coppermine? For Celerons, there are several things that define them:
Coppermine: 128k (Tualatin: 256k) cache.
Coppermine: 1.50-1.75v (Tualatin, 1.45-1.475v) core.
Coppermine: .18 micron (Tualatin, .13 micron) process.

You'll probably find the older Coppermine core Celerons at salvage shops like <A HREF="http://www.compgeeks.com" target="_new">Compgeeks</A> and [www.computersurplusoutlet.com]Computer Surplus Outlet[/url]

Your other option is a Powerleap adapter with a Tualatin Celeron 1400, but at a much higher price.

So here are your two options: Coppermine Celeron at 1.80v on voltage adjustable adapter, or Tualtin Celeron on Powerleap adapter.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Argh, the problem is, I'm not certain whether that newer BIOS also has the block to prevent you from upgrading the CPU...

Intel's own AL440LX BIOS also works on that board, with the same benefits and penalties.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

The customized BIOS (Gateway logo added) has a slightly different BIOS string to prevent the flasher from working. BUT there's a "forced flash" jumper on the board that allows you to force the Intel BIOS anyway. I've done it.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

As I can see no advantage to using the Intel BIOS I am going to pass on the "blindmans bluff" exercise .
Moving right along.....Do I have to upgrade my Bios in the Asus P2B LS board before I upgrade the CPU??
My first venture into Asus's BIOS update pages left my head hurting more than your post graduate help which I really do appreciate!!!!

Q=1-081-49FIVE

Asus BIos has been updated as suggested. As for the CPU it appears that my best option is as you said--the Coppermine Celeron 1.1 or 1.0 MGz with the Powerleap adapter. (If I can find the CPU). Is this actually a PGA370 Socket as in the following url???
<A HREF="http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumiii/datashts/24526408.pdf" target="_new">http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumiii/datashts/24526408.pdf</A>


Q=1-081-49FIVE

Does the Celeron 1400 have any other identification as I can't find it?

Q=1-081-49FIVE

Thanks for doing my homework Crashman!!!!!
Ordered the 1400 kit with the older adapter(what's $10 at this point). Looks like a no-brainer installing it--my kind of job!!
I'm going to have to do something about the RAM soon as this board only has two 128 modules at the moment.
Thanks for holding my hand on this stuff. Jim


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Crashman: You're 2/2 on your recomendations so far!
The iP3/T went in like a dream. Took all of 5 minutes. Can't believe I slept so long
Now my next 2 projects are sticking in another HDD(SCSI) on this P2B-LS(only have a 10GB on my system drive)and
Buying more RAM for same (only 256 now).
Am I going to find any safer/cheaper RAM for this board than CT32M64S4D75 from Crucial? $288 is more than I thought it would cost to reach 1gb memory.

This thread must be gettin to be kind of boring for all you serious punters!

Patience.....I'll be done soon!

Slainte!

Q=1-081-49FIVE

Would a combo of 2 X 256 + 2 X 128 work? Do I have to worry about mixing 133 and 100 modules? That way I could keep my Mushkin #990113 (128MB SDRAM PC100 CAS2 GH) and wind up with 768mb which is plenty for me.

And....to save a post over in Hard Drives:

I tried to recycle the CPU (PII 450) from the Asus P2B-LS after the PL-iP3/T upgrade into the old Gateway (which is happily running with its new shoes-384MB RAM). It boots and runs ok but only at 300mb (4.5x67). Is there any way to get this CPU to run at 450mb in this Intel board?


Q=1-081-49FIVE

What's the consensus about the embedded sound on this(SE440BX-2) board? Use it or disable it (how??) and install a sound card?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Slainte on 10/31/04 04:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>