Dreamhold Interpretation 2: myth & mural

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Here's some more analysis of _Dreamhold_, in particular, the third
ending (the one with the mural and the moon).

I'd really like this to be the start of a discussion - the conclusions
I make below are really tentative, more hypotheses than answers.

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The third ending (I'm not counting the various deaths as real endings)
is in a sense the simplest, most traditional IF ending: collect some
stuff, wear it, enter a portal, win.

But it is also the strangest ending because of the questions it
raises: How does it fit into the story? What's the significance of the
mural? And what with the "regalia" you have to collect?

I'd like to make the connection to the various myths included in the
game, which are prompted when the player examines the
constellations. Like in Greek mythology, the constellations are
connected to the stars, and the PCs ultimate fate in this ending -
literally entering the heavens, joining the stars, and presumably
becoming a constellation himself - is a common one in myths.

So the apparent meaning of this ending is that the PC transcends his
former existence and becomes some sort of mythological hero. Or,
perhaps, he was one all the time - although his actions as revealed by
the latter flashbacks seem more like those of the "silver demon" of
the list of dynasties (this may be a reference to the PC's silver
hair, as suggested by David Goldfarb).

The various myths that are told when you examine the stars could
perhaps be considered just embellishment - if there is a starry sky
and a planetarium, of course you should be able to examine the stars
and get a nice story - but the "dome" section of the game places
rather too strong an emphasis on celestial phenomena for this not to
be important. (And in a Plotkin game, it seems that everything is put
there for a purpose.) There is also the connection, pointed out by
several posters, between the myth, and constellation, of the Crutch,
and the PC's son and his use of the crutch as a banner.

In this interpretation, the mural is a depiction of the mythical hero
- either the PC, or the mythical hero which the PC strives to become -
and the strange circumstance that it "was there when I built the room"
seems less strange: the myth is not one of the PC's memories or
inventions.

It seems that most (or all) people who have commented on the mythical
aspects, at least so far, have assumed that the myths are external to
the PC and his dreamhold: either they existed before the PC, and
somehow the events with his son parallelled the myth of the Crutch, or
the myths were created based on his life.

But what if the myths, like so many other things in the dreamhold, are
in fact internal, creations of the PC?

I'd like to suggest that the myths - like the masks and the various
artifacts of the dreamhold - are aspects of the PC's mind; his dreams,
perhaps.

In that case, the myth of the Crutch may be an idealization of his
relation to his son. Note that the myth is much more innocuous than
the story put together from the flashbacks. Perhaps this is how the PC
would wish things to have been, or wish them to be remembered, rather
than the actual grim story?

And the PC's own myth - the one depicted in the mural, and his
eventual apotheosis? My theory is that this is the PC's own view of
realizing his inborn potential - this is what the boy who could hear
the stars sing was *really* supposed to become, not a brooding
wizard-king who does terrible deeds? The significance of the
pre-existenc of the mural is that it depicts the potential that was
there all the time; the PC built the room - developed into the man he
became - afterwards, but the mural was there from the beginning.

And in connection with the myths' being constructs of the PC's, I
can't help wondering about the sky - or skies, rather.

It is easy to take for granted when playing the game that the starry
sky taht appears when you first light the fire in the small dome is
the real thing, and the red sky with four moons is strange and
unnatural. This is, after all, the PC's first reaction (as seen in the
room descriptions). And the red sky clearly seems artificial, and the
moons seem like projections (you can ut your hand through them).

But this is a Dreamhold, a mental construct (at least partially), and,
as in all Plotkin's work, the distinction between reality and
imagination is very blurry indeed. Inside the domes, there is an
orrery, a model of the four moons and their motions, as well as a
planetarium, a device that projects images of the stars onto the
dome.

The planetarium is activated by lighting a fire. Lighting another fire
"turns on" the starry sky outside. Changing the fire into cold fire
changes the outdoor scene to a projection of the orrery. The parallel
is striking.

The point with this seems to be that the "real" constellations are
also just mental constructs - which supports the idea that the myths
associated with them are also constructs. The sky outside is a
projection of the inner sky, the myths projections of the PC's
dreams. Everything is part of the dreamhold, everything aspects of the
PC's personality.


With one exception, all the artefacts needed to complete the
myth-quest are defective or deficient - the gauntlet in the mural is a
common gardening glove in the dreamhold, the belt has lost its silver,
the buckle has no strap, and so on. This may reflect the discrepancy
between the PC's potential and actual abilities - despite being about
to join the stars, the PC is deficient as a human being.

The exception is the dagger - while it is blunt and not usable as an
ordinary dagger, it appears perfect for its purpose, whatever that may
be. It seems to me that the dagger is the really important thing here
- all the other artefacts more or less happen to be lying around in
various hard-to-get-at places, but the dagger is the centrepiece of a
scene of weird, poetic beauty, which for me felt like one of the
climaxes of the game. Given the great care put into presenting this
scene, and the steps leading up to discovering it, I can't help
thinking that the dagger is one of the most important objects in the
game.

So what is its purpose? When you take it, it leaves behind a sort of
rift in space itself, in the fabric of "reality" (whatever that means
in the context of a dreamhold), and trying to enter this rift ends the
scene, putting you back in a fairly mundane cave.

What I think is that the dagger is the means of destroying the
of the dreamhold, cutting through the weave of illusions and finally
escaping.

Because the other endings don't actually escape the dreamhold. The
first ending (restoring memory) restores too much; the PC is back
where he started. Redrawing the portal seems to make the PC leave the
dreamhold itself - but he ends up in the same kind of world, a world
which seems to be an expanded, less limited version of the
dreamhold. He's free to wander the worlds, but the worlds are part of
the same universe. Only the third ending seems to offer a real
possibility of escape.

Which brings me to the nature of the dreamhold. Early on, the game
hints at the dreamhold being not just a memory palace - a mental
construct having no independent existence - but something more, and it
also refers to it as a wizard's house. If the PC is indeed stuck in
his dreamhold, it is far more than just a mnemonic device. It seems
the dreamhold is made up not just of the PC's memories, but his entire
personality, his history, and if that is the case he is trapped in the
prison that is his own mind; not in the pop-culture meaning of
insanity, but in the sense that we are all prisoners of the limits we
put on ourselves - habits, guilt, memories, regrets and ambition.

By transcending this, cutting through the fabric of the dreamhold,
the PC can finally free himself and fulfil his inner potential; join
the stars.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
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In article <32g0mjF3mivf5U1@individual.net>,
Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
>Here's some more analysis of _Dreamhold_, in particular, the third
>ending (the one with the mural and the moon).
>
>I'd really like this to be the start of a discussion - the conclusions
>I make below are really tentative, more hypotheses than answers.
>
>S
>p
>o
>i
>l
>e
>r
>
>w
>a
>r
>n
>i
>n
>g
>
>The third ending (I'm not counting the various deaths as real endings)
>is in a sense the simplest, most traditional IF ending: collect some
>stuff, wear it, enter a portal, win.

Ala Zork 3.

>But what if the myths, like so many other things in the dreamhold, are
>in fact internal, creations of the PC?

The problem I have with that interpretation is it reduces the game to
navel-gazing on the part of PC.
 
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Magnus Olsson wrote:

> Here's some more analysis of _Dreamhold_, in particular, the third
> ending (the one with the mural and the moon).
>
> I'd really like this to be the start of a discussion - the conclusions
> I make below are really tentative, more hypotheses than answers.
>
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> w
> a
> r
> n
> i
> n
> g
>
>
> With one exception, all the artefacts needed to complete the myth-quest
> are defective or deficient - the gauntlet in the mural is a common
> gardening glove in the dreamhold, the belt has lost its silver, the
> buckle has no strap, and so on. This may reflect the discrepancy between
> the PC's potential and actual abilities - despite being about to join
> the stars, the PC is deficient as a human being.
>
> The exception is the dagger - while it is blunt and not usable as an
> ordinary dagger, it appears perfect for its purpose, whatever that may
> be.

Is the dagger the only exception? The cloak has celestial origins, or
close to it.

It's an encircling breadth of heavy black cloth. Black, blacker --
blacker than that. But light, like twinkling dust, drifts in the deepest
folds.

==--- --=-=-- ---==
Quintin Stone "You speak of necessary evil? One of those necessities
stone@rps.net is that if innocents must suffer, the guilty must suffer
www.rps.net more." - Mackenzie Calhoun, "Once Burned" by Peter David
 
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In article <cNydndlyKZwslV7cRVn-sQ@speakeasy.net>,
Matthew Russotto <russotto@grace.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>In article <32g0mjF3mivf5U1@individual.net>,
>Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
>>But what if the myths, like so many other things in the dreamhold, are
>>in fact internal, creations of the PC?
>
>The problem I have with that interpretation is it reduces the game to
>navel-gazing on the part of PC.

Well, yes, sort of. I have a problem with navel-gazing as well - as I
wrote in another Dreamhold thread, I'm a bit tired of stories that
take place entirely in the protagonist's head, and I hope that the
dreamhold ahs some sort of physical, independent existence (being
a real house as well as a memory palace).

But are the myths necessarily the anchoring-point to objective
reality?


--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
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In article <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412171523220.14160@yes.rps.net>,
Quintin Stone <stone@rps.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Magnus Olsson wrote:
>> S
>> p
>> o
>> i
>> l
>> e
>> r
>>
>> w
>> a
>> r
>> n
>> i
>> n
>> g
>Is the dagger the only exception? The cloak has celestial origins, or
>close to it.
>
> It's an encircling breadth of heavy black cloth. Black, blacker --
> blacker than that. But light, like twinkling dust, drifts in the deepest
> folds.

Oops - forgot about that. Your correct - there's nothing obviously
lacking with the cloak. In fact, it doesn't really fit in with the
other artefacts, and I'm not sure how it fits into the story at all
(except as some sort of affirmation of the PC's mythical status).

One more thing about the dagger that makes it feel even more important
is how hard it is to get: not only do you have to do exactly the
opposite of what you're used to in adventure games (walking away from
the light), but the tutorial voice more or less tells you to keep away
from the dark.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
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SPOILERS


























I was hoping that the "portal" ending (either one) would just restart
the game, and that Zarf would then say, "That's intentional."

I was also hoping that "wake up" would be a little more forthcoming, and
that "pop stack" would turn out to be the Easter Egg.

One might compare the "portal" and "mirror" endings to the two endings
of "So Far."

I think the mural ending is qualitatively different (and not merely
because it's several hundred turns harder to reach). I'm reminded of
Where Shakespeare's Plays Came From in the Jasper Fforde novels. The
mural was there already when you built the Dreamhold. Maybe, as Magnus
suggests, it's your Ideal Self. Or maybe we're intended to take a
starkly Platonist view of this (so this is the *real* "Wake Up" ending),
and realize that the stars are eternal, unchanging, and perfect. The
whole voyage of the Silver-Haired Demon has been merely to remember what
he knew as a child, when the stars talked to him. And finally, by
achieving his apotheosis, he has just walked out of the Cave. You
noticed that to get to the Tan World, he has to walk through the
Gate Of the Dead, right?

Adam
 
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In article <cq059p$95i$1@news.fsf.net>, Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>SPOILERS
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>I was hoping that the "portal" ending (either one) would just restart
>the game, and that Zarf would then say, "That's intentional."

I can't say I hoped for it, but I was kind of expecting it :).

>I was also hoping that "wake up" would be a little more forthcoming, and
>that "pop stack" would turn out to be the Easter Egg.

I actually started working on a Cop game four or five years ago where
the intended ending was to pop the stack, repeatedly. It never got
very far, for a variety of reasons.

>One might compare the "portal" and "mirror" endings to the two endings
>of "So Far."

Yes; they are clearrly intended to be the two sides of the same coin.

>The
>mural was there already when you built the Dreamhold. Maybe, as Magnus
>suggests, it's your Ideal Self. Or maybe we're intended to take a
>starkly Platonist view of this (so this is the *real* "Wake Up" ending),
>and realize that the stars are eternal, unchanging, and perfect. The
>whole voyage of the Silver-Haired Demon has been merely to remember what
>he knew as a child, when the stars talked to him. And finally, by
>achieving his apotheosis, he has just walked out of the Cave.

The difference between those two interpretation seems to be that one
ideal picture is subjective, the other objective. Your interpretation
lacks the navel-gazing that Matthew complained about in mine.

>You
>noticed that to get to the Tan World, he has to walk through the
>Gate Of the Dead, right?

No - missed that; what are you referring to?

I associate the lead door with death, but maybe, like in the Greek
myths, there is bad death and good death: the bleak oblivion of Hades
versus apotheosis and the stars.

But the place where you find the dagger has death-rite associations
to me - I expected it to be some sort of sacrificial dagger, especially
since it has an obsidian blade (cf. Aztec sacrificial knives).

Maybe, as someone suggested, the only way out of the dreamhold is
death (not metaphorical, but real, death). In which case the dreamhold
is really our universe itself - more like in Buddhist than in Greek
philosophy.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
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In article <32ignuF3n0q05U1@individual.net>,
Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
YAR! SPOILERS!




























>>You
>>noticed that to get to the Tan World, he has to walk through the
>>Gate Of the Dead, right?
>
>No - missed that; what are you referring to?

"The Doorstep of Heaven is a near-perfect circle of stars in the western
sky. It marks the gate, or guards the gate, through which the dead
travel to the All-Place. Funereal ceremonies always begin when the
Doorstep rises, day or night."

>Maybe, as someone suggested, the only way out of the dreamhold is
>death (not metaphorical, but real, death). In which case the dreamhold
>is really our universe itself - more like in Buddhist than in Greek
>philosophy.

The Doorstep Of Heaven is happy with that interpretation. Although it's
equally happy with the dreamhold being the shadow world, and the heavens
being the World of Forms.

Adam
 
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In article <cq30up$qjb$2@news.fsf.net>, Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>In article <32ignuF3n0q05U1@individual.net>,
>Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
>YAR! SPOILERS!

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>>>You
>>>noticed that to get to the Tan World, he has to walk through the
>>>Gate Of the Dead, right?
>>
>>No - missed that; what are you referring to?
>
>"The Doorstep of Heaven is a near-perfect circle of stars in the western
>sky. It marks the gate, or guards the gate, through which the dead
>travel to the All-Place. Funereal ceremonies always begin when the
>Doorstep rises, day or night."

Duh. I did see it, of course, rather early on, and then forgot about
it (except that there was such a constallation).

Of course, in a myth, passing through the Gate of the Dead doesn't
necessarily mean that one has died. But it does suggest leaving one
world for the next.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol