The article mentions that this won't work with a DVI cable - but since most new video cards (like mine which is a 7900GS) have only DVI, does it still work using the adapter for DVI/VGA? Or does the card have to have a VGA connector - I'm assuming the adapter would do the trick but just checking!
I'm so tempted to go do this and then add in some Wii motes to replace the need for a mouse - how cool would that be?
I'm so tempted to go do this and then add in some Wii motes to replace the need for a mouse - how cool would that be?
cleeve
Illustrious
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Yes, the DVI to VGA adapter works just fine.
That's how it was configured in the test.
NOTE TO THOSE WISHING TO PURCHASE A PROJECTOR FOR 3D USE:
A fellow named Andrew Woods emailed me after the article was published, he's done extensive testing to see which projectors are stereoscopic compatible and wrote a paper on it. Apparently, there are a few that won't work even though the specs indicate they should.
Here's the paper:
http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf
That's how it was configured in the test.
NOTE TO THOSE WISHING TO PURCHASE A PROJECTOR FOR 3D USE:
A fellow named Andrew Woods emailed me after the article was published, he's done extensive testing to see which projectors are stereoscopic compatible and wrote a paper on it. Apparently, there are a few that won't work even though the specs indicate they should.
Here's the paper:
http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf
Nice article. It surprises me that stereoscopic gaming has not received more attention from the gaming community. I've been playing my games in stereo for about 5 years now. It's awesome.
When Infocus introduced their sub-$1000 X projector there was a resurgence of interest in stereoscopic gaming. Although the max resolution was 800x600, with some tweaking 4xAA was able to be used without that great a performance hit. Now with the higher res. projectors the experience is incredibly immersive and at times absolutely breathtaking.
You mentioned the "W" word. Mine was EXTREMELY resistant to me turning our joint office space into a darked cave. I made a screen, painted the walls flat hunter green, and put pull-down sun-shades behind the vertical blinds to block ALL light from the room. She was very unhappy with me till after about 5 minutes into her favorite movie on her new in-house 10' screen, 5.1 sound movie theater. After the movie she kissed me on the cheek and said "this was such a good idea".
For those of you that may have further interest or questions about stereoscopic gaming you might want to check out www.stereo3d.com it's the most comprehensive 3d site out there.
When Infocus introduced their sub-$1000 X projector there was a resurgence of interest in stereoscopic gaming. Although the max resolution was 800x600, with some tweaking 4xAA was able to be used without that great a performance hit. Now with the higher res. projectors the experience is incredibly immersive and at times absolutely breathtaking.
You mentioned the "W" word. Mine was EXTREMELY resistant to me turning our joint office space into a darked cave. I made a screen, painted the walls flat hunter green, and put pull-down sun-shades behind the vertical blinds to block ALL light from the room. She was very unhappy with me till after about 5 minutes into her favorite movie on her new in-house 10' screen, 5.1 sound movie theater. After the movie she kissed me on the cheek and said "this was such a good idea".
For those of you that may have further interest or questions about stereoscopic gaming you might want to check out www.stereo3d.com it's the most comprehensive 3d site out there.
cleeve
Illustrious
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My wife was also quite hesitant about me putting the projector in the living room, until we watched a movie.
Now, she absolutely loves it. In fact, it's usually her idea to pull down the screen and watch a late-night TV show or DVD on the projector.
Wii games are also a blast (even in plain-old 2d).
WyomingKnott
Legenda in Aeternum
- Aug 29, 2006
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Do any studios plan to put out DVDs (or Blu-Ray or whatever) in stereo, or is that just too much of a change to well-established production procedures? I imagine that computer-animated movies could be made specifically to be seen this way, with alternate frames for alternate eyes.
"You may say that I'm a dreamer..."
"You may say that I'm a dreamer..."
when viewing the edimensional website it said they also had a long range projector. However, they made it sound as if the glasses are different to the standard (wireless) ones. Is this the case? if so do you need them for the projector available from 3dflightsim as well?
i'm thinking of buying one set of glasses for now, and buying extra pairs later.
I want the hardware i buy now to be compatible with multi glasses though...
i'm thinking of buying one set of glasses for now, and buying extra pairs later.
I want the hardware i buy now to be compatible with multi glasses though...
erikstarcher
Distinguished
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I just bought a 42" LCD so I am not in the market for a projector. I do have a 21" CRT though. Will this setup work well on a CRT also, or is it just too small to be effective? I wouldn't need the wireless setup and since it is not a projector I assume I wouldn't need an inverter either??? This could be pretty cheep setup if all I needed was the glasses.
cleeve
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gardeda84:
The glasses used in our testing were the standard $100 wireless eDimensional glasses. They work with CRTs, DLP projectors, and even LCDs when using eDimensional's driver.
eDimensional's long range projector listed in the site - the Infocus DepthQ - has a high refresh rate, but I believe it's limited to 800x600. It's an older model.
I believe the method they use is the same as in our article, with a longer-range signal transmitter that allows for more of their standard glasses.
By the way, our projector wasn't from 3dFlightsim, it's just a standard Optioma EP 719. You can find it at alot of places, but any DLP preojector with a good refresh rate should work.
3dflightsim supplies the $60 stereo inverter though.
erikstarcher:
Yep! It works great on CRT screens. It just doesn't look life-sized, but it's still pretty cool.
On a CRT you don't need the inverter, just the 3d glasses and you're good to go. Of course you'll have to install the stereo drivers and whatnot as well.
I believe the wired versions of the glasses are $70 or so.
The glasses used in our testing were the standard $100 wireless eDimensional glasses. They work with CRTs, DLP projectors, and even LCDs when using eDimensional's driver.
eDimensional's long range projector listed in the site - the Infocus DepthQ - has a high refresh rate, but I believe it's limited to 800x600. It's an older model.
I believe the method they use is the same as in our article, with a longer-range signal transmitter that allows for more of their standard glasses.
By the way, our projector wasn't from 3dFlightsim, it's just a standard Optioma EP 719. You can find it at alot of places, but any DLP preojector with a good refresh rate should work.
3dflightsim supplies the $60 stereo inverter though.
erikstarcher:
Yep! It works great on CRT screens. It just doesn't look life-sized, but it's still pretty cool.
On a CRT you don't need the inverter, just the 3d glasses and you're good to go. Of course you'll have to install the stereo drivers and whatnot as well.
I believe the wired versions of the glasses are $70 or so.
bum_jcrules
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I have played on stero stuff in the past and the only thing that dissapointed me was the ache my eyes had after a half an hour of play or so. It just seemed my brain did not like reworking the effect after a while.
How was it on a monster screen?
Nice piece man.
How was it on a monster screen?
Nice piece man.
lmimmfn
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Maybe im a dumbo, but just trrying to understand this, the projected image is modified with the NVidia stereoscopic images to produce 2 seperate 3d imaged merged into 1 2d offsetting both images which are then corrected by the glasses, correct?
Any chance of a similar article using 3d glasses with LCD's( as in LCD's in the glasses ) and TrackIR with Armed Assult, GTR etc.? :twisted:
Any chance of a similar article using 3d glasses with LCD's( as in LCD's in the glasses ) and TrackIR with Armed Assult, GTR etc.? :twisted:
In the article, you mention that the rainbow effect of DLP projectors may bother some people. This can be fixed if you spend a little more (or look a little harder) for the right projector.
The rainbow effect only happens with single chip projection (both projection for screen/wall and DLP projection TVs). This is because single chip projectors must pass the light through a spinning dichroic color wheel to display red, blue, and green pixels, so each of the three colors is displayed at a slightly different time. This becomes a problem when the content is moving quickly, and moves fast enough that that the colors seem to separate (rainbow effect)
A three chip DLP projector bounces light off of three different chips, and then through three different dichroic lenses, so all three colors are displayed simultaneously, so there is no delay between when the three colors of each pixel are displayed, and there is no rainbow.
A three chip DLP may be a bit more expensive because there are three chips, and because the optics must re-align the R,G, & B images. However, if you are viewing fast motion, - where you see projectiles, flying objects, sports, and action movies, then a three chip may look quite a bit better.
On a different subject, you can also save money on a screen by building your own - there are a few companies out there that have screen paint, and can often be found in specific varieties depending on what type of surface you are projecting on (drywall, streched canvas, etc.), what type of projector you have (LCD, DLP) and other factors (ambient light, front/rear projection, etc.) - one manufacturer is Goo Systems, - but there are others.
The rainbow effect only happens with single chip projection (both projection for screen/wall and DLP projection TVs). This is because single chip projectors must pass the light through a spinning dichroic color wheel to display red, blue, and green pixels, so each of the three colors is displayed at a slightly different time. This becomes a problem when the content is moving quickly, and moves fast enough that that the colors seem to separate (rainbow effect)
A three chip DLP projector bounces light off of three different chips, and then through three different dichroic lenses, so all three colors are displayed simultaneously, so there is no delay between when the three colors of each pixel are displayed, and there is no rainbow.
A three chip DLP may be a bit more expensive because there are three chips, and because the optics must re-align the R,G, & B images. However, if you are viewing fast motion, - where you see projectiles, flying objects, sports, and action movies, then a three chip may look quite a bit better.
On a different subject, you can also save money on a screen by building your own - there are a few companies out there that have screen paint, and can often be found in specific varieties depending on what type of surface you are projecting on (drywall, streched canvas, etc.), what type of projector you have (LCD, DLP) and other factors (ambient light, front/rear projection, etc.) - one manufacturer is Goo Systems, - but there are others.
cleeve
Illustrious
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Kind of.
The nvidia driver displays the 3d image as seen from each eye in subsequent frames.
Frame 1: left eye image is shown
Frame 2: right eye image is shown
Frame 3: left eye image is shown
Frame 4: right eye image is shown
etc...
Without stereoscopic glasses, the image on the wall appears to be blurred, but it's actually two separate images getting updated so quickly that our eyes eye can't tell them apart.
The glasses cover the eye that the image is not intended for. So during frame 1, the glasses cover the right eye. During frame 2, the glasses cover the left eye. And so on, and so forth.
The result is that each eye sees an image with a slightly different perspective, just like they do in real life, which allows for 3d stereoscopic vision.
lmimmfn
Distinguished
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Kind of.
The nvidia driver displays the 3d image as seen from each eye in subsequent frames.
Frame 1: left eye image is shown
Frame 2: right eye image is shown
Frame 3: left eye image is shown
Frame 4: right eye image is shown
etc...
Without stereoscopic glasses, the image on the wall appears to be blurred, but it's actually two separate images getting updated so quickly that our eyes eye can't tell them apart.
The glasses cover the eye that the image is not intended for. So during frame 1, the glasses cover the right eye. During frame 2, the glasses cover the left eye. And so on, and so forth.
The result is that each eye sees an image with a slightly different perspective, just like they do in real life, which allows for 3d stereoscopic vision.
Excellent, many thanks for the explanation, it makes it sound that a brain will grow in size due to having to process twice as much info as per norm
, it would be interesting to hear if prolonged usage does make you queesy or not, as per the 80's duff VR headsets
ninjahedge
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I have been waiting for this kind of stuff myself...
Questions though:
Did you try it with the eDim drivers on all the games as well, or did you give up on page 3?
You say the drivers do not work with LCD, why is that? Are the refresh rates not fast enough? It can't be a polarization problem if the same hardware works with different drivers!
Did you try it with the 7950? Having one myself, I am curious to see if that card worked better with things like 2XAA or at a higher resolution.
I would LOVE to play CoH or DoW with one of these setups, but I would imagine the cursor would be a little hard to use (do they treat it as if it were on the ground or on a flat plate of glass between you and the playing field?).
RPG's and others would probably be a blast as well. Things like GuildWar might be fun, and I would be interested in you trying out some of the other games like WoW (I do not play, but it would be interesting to see if they geared it for something like this...).
Curious, did you pop in 3DMark? Of all the things to try, I would think that would be one of them....
Oh, on a side note, did you try any applications like 3D autocad, 3Dmax or any architectural/modeling or analytical program? You may want to write some of these companies to get them interested in this. If an architect can show a 3D rendering of their project to a room full of people with 3D glasses (silly as they may look) we would be talking about jaw-dropping.
I am sure that the makers of some of these rendering and modeling programs would love to see that come to pass!
Questions though:
Did you try it with the eDim drivers on all the games as well, or did you give up on page 3?
You say the drivers do not work with LCD, why is that? Are the refresh rates not fast enough? It can't be a polarization problem if the same hardware works with different drivers!
Did you try it with the 7950? Having one myself, I am curious to see if that card worked better with things like 2XAA or at a higher resolution.
I would LOVE to play CoH or DoW with one of these setups, but I would imagine the cursor would be a little hard to use (do they treat it as if it were on the ground or on a flat plate of glass between you and the playing field?).
RPG's and others would probably be a blast as well. Things like GuildWar might be fun, and I would be interested in you trying out some of the other games like WoW (I do not play, but it would be interesting to see if they geared it for something like this...).
Curious, did you pop in 3DMark? Of all the things to try, I would think that would be one of them....
Oh, on a side note, did you try any applications like 3D autocad, 3Dmax or any architectural/modeling or analytical program? You may want to write some of these companies to get them interested in this. If an architect can show a 3D rendering of their project to a room full of people with 3D glasses (silly as they may look) we would be talking about jaw-dropping.
I am sure that the makers of some of these rendering and modeling programs would love to see that come to pass!
cleeve
Illustrious
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SLI should work, as the 7950 GX2 is known to work.
Games work because they are built on a 3d engine and the driver allows each frame to view that 3d world from a different perspective for each eye. However, movies are shot from one perspective so a driver can't make them 3d.
From what I understand, there is hardware out there that will do it - but I haven't looked into it. I also believe there are movies available that are 3d capable, but they are quite rare. I don't know much about it.
Games work because they are built on a 3d engine and the driver allows each frame to view that 3d world from a different perspective for each eye. However, movies are shot from one perspective so a driver can't make them 3d.
From what I understand, there is hardware out there that will do it - but I haven't looked into it. I also believe there are movies available that are 3d capable, but they are quite rare. I don't know much about it.
cleeve
Illustrious
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Tried some on the projector and couldn't get it to work. The eDimensional driver is so buggy I'm too frustrated to mess with it anymore.
Didn't dig into the technical limitations of the LCD, and I agree with you... I don't see why it wouldn't work either.
Nope, didn't have one available.
The cursor in CoH works fine, it looks like it's on a closer plane than the 3d stuff... yes, kind of like a pane of glass.
Nope, but good idea. Next time.
That sort of thing has been done for a while with pro apps, it's nothing new. I haven't tested those apps myself but it should work fine.
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