Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Microsoft Office 2003 EULA clarification

Last response: in Windows XP
Share
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 12:29:07 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
using my desktop.

Is that how I should interpret the EULA?

And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
the other PC?

The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
procedure.

Thanks.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 12:29:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Jerry;
Retail Office and not OEM and other versions.
Generally you can install on a desktop and portable as long as you are the
user of each.
Read the specific EULA for details.
The EULA will make it clear.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"All Things Mopar" <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns968EDA8FA514BReplyToken@216.196.97.136...
> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
> using my desktop.
>
> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>
> And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
> activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
> Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
> while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
> cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
> the other PC?
>
> The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
> it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
> procedure.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 12:30:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar wrote:
> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
> using my desktop.
>
> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>
> And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
> activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
> Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
> while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
> cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
> the other PC?
>
> The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
> it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
> procedure.

You are correct - the Office EULAs (certain types) do allow you to install
on your main PC and a laptop.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Related resources
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 12:37:53 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, Shenan Stanley extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

> All Things Mopar wrote:
>> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>> using my desktop.
>>
>> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>>
>> And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
>> activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
>> Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
>> while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
>> cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
>> the other PC?
>>
>> The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
>> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
>> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
>> it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
>> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation procedure.
>
> You are correct - the Office EULAs (certain types) do allow
> you to install on your main PC and a laptop.

Thanks. I think the only "exception" is the school edition
which allows qualifying students or teachers to install and
use Office 2003 on 3 PCs.

I can see that the student/teacher version probably installs
and activates on the first 3 PCs that activation is attempted
on.

I assume, then, that the other varients look for two different
hardware configs and allow at most two installs/activations,
and maybe "calls home" periodically to see if the "other" PC
is using the product at the same time as the "first" one to
launch Office.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote:

>As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>using my desktop.
>
>Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>

Yes. Some versions of Office 2003 do allow this. Others do not,
especially OEM versions and (possibly) educational versions.


>And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
>activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
>Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
>while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
>cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
>the other PC?
>

No. There is still some trust placed on the integrety of the user, in
spite of considerable evidence that this trust is misplaced in many
cases.


>The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
>skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
>bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
>it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
>worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
>procedure.
>
>Thanks.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, Ron Martell extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote:
>
>>As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>>products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>>allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>>but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>>I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>>using my desktop.
>>
>>Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>
> Yes. Some versions of Office 2003 do allow this. Others
> do not, especially OEM versions and (possibly) educational
> versions.

Yes, I also read the OEM EULA which doesn't apply to me, nor
does the "home use" or educational EULAs. What I'm really
getting ready to do is upgrade from my old Office 97 to 2003
and want to be sure before I spend the bucks that I can do
what I believe I'm allowed to.
>
>>And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
>>activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
>>Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
>>while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
>>cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
>>the other PC?
>>
> No. There is still some trust placed on the integrety of
> the user, in spite of considerable evidence that this trust
> is misplaced in many cases.

That's refreshing to hear. I'm not a bootlegger, don't make
CDs for people, nor do I accept unprotected or cracked
software from others. I pay for what I use and expect others
to do the same. If more people played it straight, we all
wouldn't be so hamstrung with the very complex activation
schemes becoming more and more common, prices would probably
drop, and bugs would be reduced that are side-effects of the
activation systems.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Ron Martell wrote:
> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote:
>
>> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>> using my desktop.
>>
>> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>>
>
> Yes. Some versions of Office 2003 do allow this. Others do not,
> especially OEM versions and (possibly) educational versions.

Academic versions that are sold at place like Walmart allows three
simultaneous installations.

>
>
>> And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
>> activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
>> Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
>> while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
>> cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
>> the other PC?
>>
>
> No. There is still some trust placed on the integrety of the user, in
> spite of considerable evidence that this trust is misplaced in many
> cases.

TRUST! LOL! MS just couldn't get away with have copy-protection that
phones home constantly! If they could, they would!

It has nothing to do with MS trusting anyone. If they did trust people,
then no copyprotection would be necessary.

>
>
>> The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
>> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
>> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
>> it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
>> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
>> procedure.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Good luck
>
>
> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada



--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Society is built on questioning trust.

If their was trust, there would be no need for time clocks, police, library
cards, lawyers or product validation.

But people make mistakes. They are reigned in through a fine, huge attorney
fees, a late charge, loss of pay, a ticket or having their software
installation denied because it has already been installed on another
computer. After having their wrist slapped it is hoped that they modify
their behavior and return those books on time and obey the speed limits.

These are not my rules. They are societies. There must be rules in any
culture to have a semblance of order.

Now you can dig in Kurt!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from: George Ankner
"If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!"

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:%23%23yFtVPhFHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Ron Martell wrote:
>> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>>> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>>> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>>> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>>> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>>> using my desktop.
>>>
>>> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?
>>>
>>
>> Yes. Some versions of Office 2003 do allow this. Others do not,
>> especially OEM versions and (possibly) educational versions.
>
> Academic versions that are sold at place like Walmart allows three
> simultaneous installations.
>
>>
>>
>>> And, I assume MS Office (all varients) use product
>>> activation to enforce the license and presumeably the
>>> Eula. Is that also correct? So, does Office "call home"
>>> while I'm using it on one of my two eligible PCs and
>>> cross-reference and prevent attempted simulaneous use on
>>> the other PC?
>>>
>>
>> No. There is still some trust placed on the integrety of the user, in
>> spite of considerable evidence that this trust is misplaced in many
>> cases.
>
> TRUST! LOL! MS just couldn't get away with have copy-protection that
> phones home constantly! If they could, they would!
>
> It has nothing to do with MS trusting anyone. If they did trust people,
> then no copyprotection would be necessary.
>
>>
>>
>>> The reason for this question is /not/ to find a way to
>>> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
>>> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
>>> it regardless of which PC /I/ am on, and without being
>>> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
>>> procedure.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>>
>> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
>
>
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" wrote:

>>
> Academic versions that are sold at place like Walmart allows three
> simultaneous installations.
>

Well, ours came from Costco. My wife, a teacher, put it on her desktop and
her laptop, but when I tried to install it on another computer sometimes used
by students, the registration wizard said, "Sorry, this is already reported
installed on another computer." Are you sure it's three machines and not
two, and if it is three, how can this be reconciled?

Thinking back, I had to install it twice on the desktop; first installation
didn't 'take.' Could that be the problem?

Thanks.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:50:17 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Jim Wood wrote:
kurttrail wrote:
> Academic versions that are sold at place like Walmart allows three
> simultaneous installations.

> Well, ours came from Costco. My wife, a teacher, put it on her
> desktop and her laptop, but when I tried to install it on another
> computer sometimes used by students, the registration wizard said,
> "Sorry, this is already reported installed on another computer." Are
> you sure it's three machines and not two, and if it is three, how can
> this be reconciled?
>
> Thinking back, I had to install it twice on the desktop; first
> installation didn't 'take.' Could that be the problem?

No - it couldn't - you give the process too much credit in that it knows how
many times it has been installed.

You sure you have this version:
Microsoft® Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003

And not a different version of Microsoft Office 2003? After all - the
process also has no idea your wife is a teacher.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 11:08:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Richard Urban [MVP] wrote:
> Society is built on questioning trust.
>
> If their was trust, there would be no need for time clocks, police,
> library cards, lawyers or product validation.
>
> But people make mistakes. They are reigned in through a fine, huge
> attorney fees, a late charge, loss of pay, a ticket or having their
> software installation denied because it has already been installed on
> another computer. After having their wrist slapped it is hoped that
> they modify their behavior and return those books on time and obey
> the speed limits.
> These are not my rules. They are societies. There must be rules in any
> culture to have a semblance of order.
>
> Now you can dig in Kurt!

Societies aren't always right. And MS is not society. MS has no
mandate over culture to have a semblance of order.

And, in away, that is what PA is about, tricky people into thinking MS
is a shaper of society. And obviously you are among those who are their
fools.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 1:35:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

kurttrail wrote:

>
>
> Societies aren't always right.


Granted, but those who wish to live in them have to play by their
rules. Or go start their own society somewhere else....


> And MS is not society.


No, but it operates within our society, so it must play by the
society's rules. This it does, even if you don't like it.


> MS has no
> mandate over culture to have a semblance of order.
>


No one but you has ever claimed that it has.


> And, in away, that is what PA is about, tricky people into thinking MS
> is a shaper of society.


Wrong again. As ususal, you've got the cart before the horse.
Microsoft isn't doing anything (the specific details of protective
mechanisms aside) that other software companies (and most other
purveyors of intellectual property, as well) do - striving to protect
its product from those who need to be watched before they'll act with
integrity.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 4:18:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Shenan:

Yes, she does have that version. It wasn't the program that imposed the
restrictions, but the product registration via the Internet after
installation. The program warned that it could be opened only 30 more times
(or somesuch) unless it was registered. When I clicked the box we were
logged onto the Microsoft site, which then told us "Sorry, registration
denied... already installed on another computer..." or something like that.

Thanks,

Jim

"Shenan Stanley" wrote:

> No - it couldn't - you give the process too much credit in that it knows how
> many times it has been installed.
>
> You sure you have this version:
> Microsoft® Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003
>
> And not a different version of Microsoft Office 2003? After all - the
> process also has no idea your wife is a teacher.
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 5:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Bruce Chambers wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Societies aren't always right.
>
>
> Granted, but those who wish to live in them have to play by their
> rules. Or go start their own society somewhere else....
>

The sentiments of a true comformist.

Thank God people like Ben Franklin and Martin Luther King Jr. didn't
think like you.

>
>> And MS is not society.
>
>
> No, but it operates within our society, so it must play by the
> society's rules. This it does, even if you don't like it.
>

LOL! I've never been proven in a court of law to be a IP infringer, or
a predatory monopoly, MS has. So please don't give me the Bullsh*t that
MS is an angel.

MS tries to find ways around societies rules, through out the world, in
many societies.

>
>> MS has no
>> mandate over culture to have a semblance of order.
>>
>
>
> No one but you has ever claimed that it has.

No one has every claim that the EULA is the Word according to Lord Billy
G?! ROFL!

>
>
>> And, in away, that is what PA is about, tricky people into thinking
>> MS is a shaper of society.
>
>
> Wrong again. As ususal, you've got the cart before the horse.

No.

> Microsoft isn't doing anything (the specific details of protective
> mechanisms aside) that other software companies (and most other
> purveyors of intellectual property, as well) do - striving to protect
> its product from those who need to be watched before they'll act with
> integrity.

That's what courts are for. If MS can PROVE someone is infringing their
IP, then it is their due diligence responsibility to persue that someone
in a real court of law. As usual, it is you that is guilty of what you
accuse me of.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 10, 2005 7:19:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
> using my desktop.
>
> Is that how I should interpret the EULA?

You may have read the wrong EULA. Microsoft has several different EULAs for
various versions of Office, to make absolutely sure you get the right one,
open any Office app on your own computer, click on Help/About and click on
the "View the end user lisense agreement" link, it'll be in blue right under
the product ID.


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
July 10, 2005 10:58:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:uzFU4TWhFHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Societies aren't always right.
>
>
> Granted, but those who wish to live in them have to play by their rules.
> Or go start their own society somewhere else....
>
>
>> And MS is not society.
>
>
> No, but it operates within our society, so it must play by the society's
> rules. This it does, even if you don't like it.
>
>
>> MS has no mandate over culture to have a semblance of order.
>>
>
>
> No one but you has ever claimed that it has.
>
>
>> And, in away, that is what PA is about, tricky people into thinking MS is
>> a shaper of society.
>
>
> Wrong again. As ususal, you've got the cart before the horse. Microsoft
> isn't doing anything (the specific details of protective mechanisms aside)
> that other software companies (and most other purveyors of intellectual
> property, as well) do - striving to protect its product from those who
> need to be watched before they'll act with integrity.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers

At least the EU has prohibited patenting intellectual property. Imagine if
someone had patented the idea of a book. Every author would have to pay them
a royalty. MS wants to patent its software. What does that tell you about
MS?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 12:03:53 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <Xns968EDA8FA514BReplyToken@216.196.97.136>, useMAPSnet123
@comMAPScast.net says...
> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
> using my desktop.

That's only true for Retail Office. I tried to do this with an OEM
Office 2003 Professional and was told it was not permitted by the
activation phone people.


--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 12:17:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, Alias extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

> At least the EU has prohibited patenting intellectual
> property. Imagine if someone had patented the idea of a
> book. Every author would have to pay them a royalty. MS
> wants to patent its software. What does that tell you about
> MS?

Last year, M$ was granted a U.S. Patent for mouse double-
clicking! WTF?! First, they didn't invent it, they stole it from
Apple, who'd stole it from the Xerox Star people.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 12:18:45 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, Leythos extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

>> As I read the EULA for the various MS Office 2003
>> products on http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula, I am
>> allowed to install and use the product on a /single/ PC
>> but may and also install it on my laptop, provided that
>> I don't have a second person using the laptop while I'm
>> using my desktop.
>
> That's only true for Retail Office. I tried to do this with
> an OEM Office 2003 Professional and was told it was not
> permitted by the activation phone people.

All bets are off for the OEM stuff. I was referring to retail
versions, only.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 2:53:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

> On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
> the consideration of other readers...
>
>> You may have read the wrong EULA. Microsoft has several
>> different EULAs for various versions of Office, to make
>> absolutely sure you get the right one, open any Office app
>> on your own computer, click on Help/About and click on the
>> "View the end user lisense agreement" link, it'll be in blue right
>> under the product ID.
>
> I read them all. And, I don't read EULAs /after/ I buy and
> install the product, I read them /before/.

My point is, how do you know which is the correct EULA? There are several
for Office and they are all a bit different plus they occasionally are
changed/modified/updated. The only way to be sure is to read the EULA in the
product you have purchased and you can't see that until during installation.

Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the product for refund and
you can, believe it or not, I've done so!

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 12:04:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:
>
>> On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
>> the consideration of other readers...
>>
>>> You may have read the wrong EULA. Microsoft has several
>>> different EULAs for various versions of Office, to make
>>> absolutely sure you get the right one, open any Office app
>>> on your own computer, click on Help/About and click on the
>>> "View the end user lisense agreement" link, it'll be in blue right
>>> under the product ID.
>>
>> I read them all. And, I don't read EULAs /after/ I buy and
>> install the product, I read them /before/.
>
> My point is, how do you know which is the correct EULA? There are
> several for Office and they are all a bit different plus they
> occasionally are changed/modified/updated. The only way to be sure
> is to read the EULA in the product you have purchased and you can't
> see that until during installation.
>
> Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the product for
> refund and you can, believe it or not, I've done so!

Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
product.

Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 2:45:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

> Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the
> product for refund and you can, believe it or not, I've
> done so!

The box for the several incantations of Office I looked at in
the store listed the web site and said to read the EULA /before/
installing. The boxes I looked at specifically said that if you
don't agree with the EULA, return the product /unopened/.

None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit on
/any/ software that's been opened. They aren't dummies - they
know that people will copy the CD (if they can), then return the
box. Some stores will give you another box if you think it is
defective and /may/ do a store credit.

I'm glad you were successful with returning before, but I don't
want to take a chance. Office is just too expensive.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 4:02:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

> On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
> the consideration of other readers...
>
>> Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the
>> product for refund and you can, believe it or not, I've done so!
>
> The box for the several incantations of Office I looked at in
> the store listed the web site and said to read the EULA /before/
> installing. The boxes I looked at specifically said that if you
> don't agree with the EULA, return the product /unopened/.

That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine if you can't see
the EULA until you're doing the install as is the case with most software.

> None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit on
> /any/ software that's been opened.

Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is the case
with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it with you, ask for
the manager, point out that the part that says "Return for refund" is telling
him the software company will cover it. You will have to argue but you'll
win if you're persuasive.

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 4:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
> product.
>
> Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?

You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read the original post
again.

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 8:03:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

> That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine
> if you can't see the EULA until you're doing the install as
> is the case with most software.

Yes, you're right. In those case, which is most of the time, I
go to the companiy's web site and check there and/or call
first.
>
>> None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit
>> on /any/ software that's been opened.
>
> Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before
> installation as is the case with most software. Just print
> out the EULA and take it with you, ask for the manager,
> point out that the part that says "Return for refund" is
> telling him the software company will cover it. You will
> have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.

I have been successful at being "persuasive" some of the time
but I've also had to call my Visa company to dispute the
charge when the store balked. That's made me skittish about
these things, especially on more expensive software.

The "EULA" printed on most boxes is pretty vague as to the
buyer's rights are for a refund. Even then, some stores have
strict policies about no refunds if the box is opened. When I
simply have no other choice but to buy and install first, I
track down the manager and verify with them that I can return
it, and I have them write it on my bill for "proof".

This goes to the issue of "trust" brought up earlier in this
thread. Stores are rightfully reluctant to refund software
that can easily be copied. Its like camera stores that have
policies against refunds of cameras because the twits buy a
camera for their vacation or daughter's wedding, then try to
bring it back.

Too bad there's so many people trying scans of one sort or
another...

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 8:04:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

>> Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he
>> buys any product.
>>
>> Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English,
>> Norton?
>
> You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read
> the original post again.

I'm the OP and may not have worded my post clearly, but I was
asking about clarification of the EULAs for the several kinds of
Office 2003 /before/ I buy one.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 8:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
>> product.
>>
>> Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?
>
> You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read the original
> post again.

"The reason for this question is not to find a way to
skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
it regardless of which PC I am on, and without being
worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
procedure."

See the "before I stroke the big bucks?"

That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003 yet.

The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to make sure he
buys the flavor of Office that suits his needs.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 8:27:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, kurttrail extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

[snip]
> That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003
> yet.

No, I haven't.

> The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to
> make sure he buys the flavor of Office that suits his
> needs.

Yes, this sums up succinctly what I'm trying to do. Thanks.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 8:28:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:
>
>> On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
>> the consideration of other readers...
>>
>>> Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the
>>> product for refund and you can, believe it or not, I've done so!
>>
>> The box for the several incantations of Office I looked at in
>> the store listed the web site and said to read the EULA /before/
>> installing. The boxes I looked at specifically said that if you
>> don't agree with the EULA, return the product /unopened/.
>
> That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine if you
> can't see the EULA until you're doing the install as is the case with
> most software.
>
>> None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit on
>> /any/ software that's been opened.
>
> Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is
> the case with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it
> with you, ask for the manager, point out that the part that says
> "Return for refund" is telling him the software company will cover
> it. You will have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.

Hardly any store, physical, or web, we take returns of OPENED software.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 11:18:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

>> Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is
>> the case with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it
>> with you, ask for the manager, point out that the part that says
>> "Return for refund" is telling him the software company will cover it.
>> You will have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.
>
> Hardly any store, physical, or web, we take returns of OPENED software.

I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on how to
do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about it. If you let
some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back opened software and meekly
leave w/o asking to see the manager and making him/her read the EULA then
that's your fault, isn't it?


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 11:24:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

> I'm the OP and may not have worded my post clearly, but I was
> asking about clarification of the EULAs for the several kinds of
> Office 2003 /before/ I buy one.

And you said you'd read the EULA on line which prompted me to point out that
the EULA you read might not apply to the product you purchased. EULAs
change, the copy you buy might be an earlier version of the EULA if it's been
modified lately. The one you agree to is the one packaged with your product,
not a possibly newer and revised version on line. In addition, Microsoft has
several different EULAs on their website for different versions of Office,
it's easy to read the wrong one.



--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 11, 2005 11:25:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>>
>>> Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
>>> product.
>>>
>>> Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?
>>
>> You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read the original
>> post again.
>
> "The reason for this question is not to find a way to
> skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
> bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
> it regardless of which PC I am on, and without being
> worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
> procedure."
>
> See the "before I stroke the big bucks?"
>
> That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003 yet.
>
> The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to make sure he
> buys the flavor of Office that suits his needs.

Yup, that's why I said he had to read the EULA that came with the software,
NOT the online version which could be a newer revised one.


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 1:58:52 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
> how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
> it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
> opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
> making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?

But - for most MS products don't you have to start installing it to read the
EULA?

And you just stated the online EULA (or any EULA) could be different for any
version/revision/etc you bought - so even if they have the same copy already
installed in store - wouldn't they have to install and read YOUR EULA in
order to be sure they are in compliance? heh

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 2:08:07 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom
for
the consideration of other readers...

> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote
in:
>
>> I'm the OP and may not have worded my post clearly,
but I
>> was asking about clarification of the EULAs for the
>> several kinds of Office 2003 /before/ I buy one.
>
> And you said you'd read the EULA on line which
prompted me
> to point out that the EULA you read might not apply to
the
> product you purchased. EULAs change, the copy you buy
> might be an earlier version of the EULA if it's been
> modified lately. The one you agree to is the one
packaged
> with your product, not a possibly newer and revised
version
> on line. In addition, Microsoft has several different
> EULAs on their website for different versions of
Office,
> it's easy to read the wrong one.

David, I looked at the flippin' boxes in the store for
the Students & Teachers Edition, the Standard Edition,
the Small Business Edition, and the Professional
Edition. They /all/ said to go to M$'s EULA site,
http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula/en.mspx which I
did. Each EULA was properly labeled on this web site so
it was trivial to figure out which EULA went with which
product I looked at. And, I also looked at the Home Use
Rights Licenses.

If M$ is too damn dumb to keep their EULA site up-to-
date, I guess they deserve what they get - no sale.

Again, the /entire/ purpose of my OP was that these
EULAs are intentionally written in legalese so as to be
hard to understand but easy for M$ to defend, and not
being an intellectual property attorney, it wasn't at
all obvious to me exactly what were my rights nor what I
was/was not permitted to do. From a couple of responses
I read in this thread, I'm not the only one who's
confused.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 2:14:31 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

>> The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants
>> to make sure he buys the flavor of Office that suits his
>> needs.
>
> Yup, that's why I said he had to read the EULA that came
> with the software, NOT the online version which could be a
> newer revised one.

What does it matter which one is newer? I'm simply trying to get
an advance "read" to ensure that /my/ rights to use software I pay
$$$ for are observed.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 3:41:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Jerry;
If this was mentioned earlier I missed it.
If you are in North America, you can return Microsoft software directly to
Microsoft within 30 days.
Opened or not, it does not matter:
http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm

As for the EULA, this is far from ideal since you can not read the specific
EULA for that product until purchase, opening and inserting CD and reading
the EULA text file. .
But Retail Office is two installations, one portable and a desktop on
computers used by the same user.
This may not be clear on the box.
Office 2003 Students and Teachers is 3 computers (laptop, desktop, all the
same, mix etc IIRC) and is clearly marked on the box.
Qualifying for S=T is easy and you probably qualify.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"All Things Mopar" <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in message > I have
been successful at being "persuasive" some of the time
> but I've also had to call my Visa company to dispute the
> charge when the store balked. That's made me skittish about
> these things, especially on more expensive software.
>
> The "EULA" printed on most boxes is pretty vague as to the
> buyer's rights are for a refund. Even then, some stores have
> strict policies about no refunds if the box is opened. When I
> simply have no other choice but to buy and install first, I
> track down the manager and verify with them that I can return
> it, and I have them write it on my bill for "proof".
>
> This goes to the issue of "trust" brought up earlier in this
> thread. Stores are rightfully reluctant to refund software
> that can easily be copied. Its like camera stores that have
> policies against refunds of cameras because the twits buy a
> camera for their vacation or daughter's wedding, then try to
> bring it back.
>
> Too bad there's so many people trying scans of one sort or
> another...
>
> --
> ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 4:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:
>
>>> Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is
>>> the case with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it
>>> with you, ask for the manager, point out that the part that says
>>> "Return for refund" is telling him the software company will cover
>>> it. You will have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.
>>
>> Hardly any store, physical, or web, we take returns of OPENED
>> software.
>
> I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
> how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
> it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
> opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
> making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?

With online stores many say that they won't accept returns of open
software, and those terms are their terms, not MSs.

And many diffferent retail stores have that same policy. So the only
recourse is return to MS, and waiting for the return through the mail.

No where in MS's EULA does it say that the seller of the copy of
software must accept open box returns, and even if it did, the seller
didn't agree to the EULA.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 12:25:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, Jupiter Jones [MVP] extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

> Jerry;
> If this was mentioned earlier I missed it.
> If you are in North America, you can return Microsoft
> software directly to Microsoft within 30 days.
> Opened or not, it does not matter:
> http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm

I didn't know about this. Thanks muchly!
>
> As for the EULA, this is far from ideal since you can not
> read the specific EULA for that product until purchase,
> opening and inserting CD and reading the EULA text file. .
> But Retail Office is two installations, one portable and a
> desktop on computers used by the same user.

That's the way I read the EULAs on-line.
> This may not be clear on the box.

It's not on the box at all except for the Students & Teachers
edition you talk about below.

> Office 2003 Students and Teachers is 3 computers (laptop,
> desktop, all the same, mix etc IIRC) and is clearly marked
> on the box. Qualifying for S=T is easy and you probably
> qualify.

I've been led to believe that the S & T edition /does/ limit
the installs to 3 but the "regular" versions do not count
installs at all. Still, to restate my OP, my intent is /not/
to try to cicumvent M$'s right to license their product, I
just want to try my best to verify in advance that they're not
going to try to foist the idea of buying two licensing for my
2 computers, like some companies do. I think Symantec now
restricts their products to only one PC hardware config, maybe
Adobe PS CS2 also, don't know about them.

I also stated before that I don't bootleg, I don't make copies
of CDs for people, protected or not, and I don't accept
software from people, original or cracked. I am also a
strictly personal user, no commercial use whatsoever.

I guess my opinion on pirating goes back to the days when I
sold software commercially and some shareware. I never got
rich but I did dislike the bootleggers. And, I think our
software would be less problematical if so much of the
developers effort didn't go into "protecting" it. Just my
thoughts, YMMV.

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 2:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in:

> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
>> how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
>> it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
>> opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
>> making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?
>
> But - for most MS products don't you have to start installing it to read
> the EULA?

Yes.

> And you just stated the online EULA (or any EULA) could be different for
> any version/revision/etc you bought - so even if they have the same copy
> already installed in store - wouldn't they have to install and read YOUR
> EULA in order to be sure they are in compliance? heh

You snipped the part where I said to print it out and take it to the store
with you.


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 2:54:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:

> If M$ is too damn dumb to keep their EULA site up-to-
> date, I guess they deserve what they get - no sale.

You miss the point. Microsoft's website IS up to date, the latest version of
the EULA will be there. But that box in the store could be a year old and
the EULA could have been revised since the software was packaged.

The EULA you agree to is the one in the box that installs on your machine,
not the one on the website.

> Again, the /entire/ purpose of my OP was that these
> EULAs are intentionally written in legalese so as to be
> hard to understand but easy for M$ to defend, and not
> being an intellectual property attorney, it wasn't at
> all obvious to me exactly what were my rights nor what I
> was/was not permitted to do. From a couple of responses
> I read in this thread, I'm not the only one who's
> confused.

They can be pretty ambiguous, that's what lawyers do so that we'll need more
lawyers to figure out what it really means. It's called "job security".


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 5:21:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> And you just stated the online EULA (or any EULA) could be different
>> for any version/revision/etc you bought - so even if they have the
>> same copy already installed in store - wouldn't they have to install
>> and read YOUR EULA in order to be sure they are in compliance? heh
>
> You snipped the part where I said to print it out and take it to the
> store with you.

Oops - you are correct.. My bad.

However, the store did not agree to that EULA when they sold it, so it is
their right not to accept it as a return. Many places will not accept
opened software. I know that in the US you can return the OS (not sure
about other MS products) to Microsoft and expect a return of your money
within your lifetime - but can you do this in other countries?

Also - isn't the online EULA all that matters - after all - when you install
the latest SP for the product - you usually get any changes to the EULA -
which should be the one online.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 5:58:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in:
>
>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>> I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
>>> how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
>>> it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
>>> opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
>>> making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?
>>
>> But - for most MS products don't you have to start installing it to
>> read the EULA?
>
> Yes.
>
>> And you just stated the online EULA (or any EULA) could be different
>> for any version/revision/etc you bought - so even if they have the
>> same copy already installed in store - wouldn't they have to install
>> and read YOUR EULA in order to be sure they are in compliance? heh
>
> You snipped the part where I said to print it out and take it to the
> store with you.


What does the store have to do with the EULA? Did they accept it?
Where in the EULA does it mandate that the store that sold the copy of
software is responsible to accept open box returns?

Stop BSing, Norton.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 5:58:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> What does the store have to do with the EULA?

Nope, but they sold the product.

> Where in the EULA does it mandate that the store that sold the copy of
> software is responsible to accept open box returns?

Oh, I forgot your reading disability. That would be the part of the EULA
that says "YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY INSTALLING,
COPYING OR USING THE SOFTWARE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY OR
USE THE SOFTWARE; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL
REFUND...."

I think even you should be able to understand that.

> Stop BSing, Norton.

I'm not, but you're certainly being unusually obtuse, even for you!

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 6:03:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> All Things Mopar <useMAPSnet123@comMAPScast.net> wrote in:
>
>> If M$ is too damn dumb to keep their EULA site up-to-
>> date, I guess they deserve what they get - no sale.
>
> You miss the point. Microsoft's website IS up to date, the latest
> version of the EULA will be there. But that box in the store could
> be a year old and the EULA could have been revised since the software
> was packaged.
>
> The EULA you agree to is the one in the box that installs on your
> machine, not the one on the website.

As soon as the latest Service Pack is installed, the latest version of
the EULA covers his copy. All you are doing is Bullsh*tting, Norton.

>
>> Again, the /entire/ purpose of my OP was that these
>> EULAs are intentionally written in legalese so as to be
>> hard to understand but easy for M$ to defend, and not
>> being an intellectual property attorney, it wasn't at
>> all obvious to me exactly what were my rights nor what I
>> was/was not permitted to do. From a couple of responses
>> I read in this thread, I'm not the only one who's
>> confused.
>
> They can be pretty ambiguous, that's what lawyers do so that we'll
> need more lawyers to figure out what it really means. It's called
> "job security".

Actually what it is called is a defense for not following the EULA
according to the interpretation of MS. The more ambiguous the contract,
the less likely that a court will side with the contractor [MS] for what
it perceives to be a breech.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 6:03:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> As soon as the latest Service Pack is installed, the latest version of
> the EULA covers his copy. All you are doing is Bullsh*tting, Norton.

And until the latest SP is installed the version installed with the software
covers his copy, so? Did you have a point or are you just throwing up
irrelevant arguments as usual?


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 8:13:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> As soon as the latest Service Pack is installed, the latest version
>> of the EULA covers his copy. All you are doing is Bullsh*tting,
>> Norton.
>
> And until the latest SP is installed the version installed with the
> software covers his copy, so? Did you have a point or are you just
> throwing up irrelevant arguments as usual?

LOL! My point is you are FUDing the OP. BS and FUD, Norton. That is
all you are doing.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 9:53:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On this date, kurttrail extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

> LOL! My point is you are FUDing the OP. BS and FUD,
> Norton. That is all you are doing.

Gee, I'm sorry to have created such a controversy by asking a
"simple" question! <grin>

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 12, 2005 9:59:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar wrote:
> Gee, I'm sorry to have created such a controversy by asking a
> "simple" question! <grin>

Search the newsgroups for "kurttrail" and/or "EULA" and you will find
hundreds.. thousands of these threads over the years.
Yours has now been added to the list.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 13, 2005 12:18:20 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> All Things Mopar wrote:
>> Gee, I'm sorry to have created such a controversy by asking a
>> "simple" question! <grin>
>
> Search the newsgroups for "kurttrail" and/or "EULA" and you will find
> hundreds.. thousands of these threads over the years.
> Yours has now been added to the list.
>

OK, do you agree with Norton's opinion that MS's Office EULA forces a
retailer to accept an open-box return?

If so, where in the EULA does it say it explicitly, and when did the
retailer agree to abide by the *END* *USERS* Licensing Agreement?

You bring up the fact that I've have a lot of posts regarding EULAs,
like that is supposed to mean something. What exactly are you alluding
to? Please be forthright in what you mean, instead of hiding behind
innuendo.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
July 13, 2005 12:18:21 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

All Things Mopar wrote:
> Gee, I'm sorry to have created such a controversy by asking a
> "simple" question! <grin>

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> Search the newsgroups for "kurttrail" and/or "EULA" and you will find
> hundreds.. thousands of these threads over the years.
> Yours has now been added to the list.

kurttrail wrote:
> OK, do you agree with Norton's opinion that MS's Office EULA forces a
> retailer to accept an open-box return?
>
> If so, where in the EULA does it say it explicitly, and when did the
> retailer agree to abide by the *END* *USERS* Licensing Agreement?
>
> You bring up the fact that I've have a lot of posts regarding EULAs,
> like that is supposed to mean something. What exactly are you
> alluding to? Please be forthright in what you mean, instead of
> hiding behind innuendo.

Kurt,

You are getting paranoid in your older days, man. I said exactly what I
meant in response to the only part I clipped. "All Things Mopar" presented
the "apology" for starting such a thread and I pointed out that they hadn't
done anything unique - there are hundreds if not thousands of such posts in
the Microsoft Newsgroups they could find with a simple search - and even you
have to admit - most of them have your involvement in them.

No innuendo - simple statement of fact.

As for agreeing or disagreeing - I think it's a moot point. I gave my
questions/statement elswhere in this thread - but to cool your paranoia,
here is my last set of questions in reguard to this thread (and directed to
David R. Norton:

"However, the store did not agree to that EULA when they sold it, so it is
their right not to accept it as a return. Many places will not accept
opened software. I know that in the US you can return the OS (not sure
about other MS products) to Microsoft and expect a return of your money
within your lifetime - but can you do this in other countries?

Also - isn't the online EULA all that matters - after all - when you install
the latest SP for the product - you usually get any changes to the EULA -
which should be the one online."

Does that satisfy your questions or do you feel I am still not being blunt
enough. If not blunt enough, here you go directly to your questions:

Microsoft's EULA does not force a retailer to do anything. The retailer did
not agree to the EULA and even if they did, they have the right in the
united States to not give you any service what-so-ever if they "just don't
feel like it" at the most extreme end of the scale. Will it hurt their
business? Maybe - do they have to care? No.

For the second statement with a question mark - that seems to be answered in
my first direct answer fairly well.

As for the third - you post a lot of stuff in response to people's EULA
concerns and activation and such when it comes to microsoft products - so I
thought it pretty straight forward to tell the OP they started nothing new -
prove it to themselves by searching either for "kurttrail" and/or "EULA".
Where you find a hidden agenda or innuendo in that - well, I have no idea..
They have meds for that now though.. *grin*

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
!