Buying a new pc, need some help please.

[Aheegx]

Hi,
Im buying a new PC. But I need some help on what ram to buy, and what motherboard and CPU is compatible with it.

Im wont be overclocking for awhile, so dont include anything to do with overclocking. But I will want my pc very silent and cool. Also I dont like Asus and Radeon cards.

See I wanna buy new ddr2 ram, "DDR2-667(PC2-5400) by OCZ or DDR2-675(PC2-5400) by corsair" but I want to know what motherboard is compatible and can use this ram. Ive heard the "Gigabyte GA-8ANXP-D Rev2.0" motherboard can.
Also, only LGA 775 cpu's work with DDR2 or the boards that support ddr2 are LGA 775 cpu compatible?
If I buy these specs would it work good together?

Motherboard: Giganbyte : GA-8ANXP-D
CPU: Intel P4 30.ghz LGA 775
Ram:
Hdd: 2x 200gb Seagate hdd's
Graphic card: eviga Nvidia geforce 6800 ultra

and the rest.
Im gonna ask a question on water cooling and what case and power supply to buy in another thread. Cause I need water cooling ( the one that has it all in one like the zalman one ) that can cool my graphic card, cpu and keep the others cool and quite.

Thank u and please help

 

[RichPLS]

Hell yeah, that system rocks!

<font color=red><pre>_____________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

LOL, REALLY, DDRII? You know how much SLOWER that stuff runs at today's CPU bus speeds? The only way you're going to get the performance up is to OVERCLOCK THE CPU TO UNBELIEVABLE PROPORTIONS! Is that REALLY what you had planned?

Let's think about this a minute: DDRII 667 matches a 1333 CPU bus. The fastest CPU bus right now is 1066. Those use a clock rate of 333 and 266MHz, respectively.

Say you got a magical P4 of 3466MHz (CPU clock of 13x266MHz bus clock). To get that to 1333 bus (333 clock) you'd need to push the CPU speed to 4.33GHz. Quite high if you want ANY kind of normal cooling. And without that overclock, your RAM will either be running at a slower speed or asychronously, each of which take away the performance gains you're looking to accomplish.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

Holy Crap, I just realized you wanted to run a P4 3.0GHz with DDRII 667 (running at DDRII 400 speed)!!! Overclocking to get the DDRII to actually RUN at full speed synchronously would take your CPU to 5GHz! You'd better start considering liquid helium as a coolant!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Imp]

I believe there are some things about DDR2 that change the situation, as far as p4's are concerned. Bear with me for a moment, and keep in mind that P4's do not gain the same benefits of super-tight timings, or even running the bus 'synchronously' when DDR2 is concerned. The last takes a little explanation, so tell me what you think.

From what I understand, the situation under DDR1 and 2 are very different. Assume for a moment that the multi is locked on your CPU. With DDR1 your highest overclock with come with running the FSB as fast as you can, since that will obviously drive the CPU and whole system faster. You want good quality RAM because it can keep up with the FSB of the CPU at a 1:1 rate, and thus the system runs 'synchronously'. If you push the whole system very high, and assuming your voltages can't go any higher, at some point you will need to loosen the timings on the RAM. At some point beyond that, assuming the CPU can still be pushed, DDR1 RAM will not keep up (what's the best stuff at now, around ddr570/590 speeds?) and you need to use a divider to go further, the one available I've seen is 5:4. So with a DDR1 system for a P4 your best overclock is basically the highest FSB, given that RAM will at some point begin to fall off and need a "math fix"/divider. A64's are a little different because you have to be much more concerned with the performance hit you take at a lower FSB vs looser timings. CPU multis being unlocked is good because it allows a higher FSB, due to the user being able to basically work the math better. 1:1 performance is a goal because that is as high a a ratio as is selectable, the alternative being a divider which lowers RAM bandwidth. Is that right so far? Ok here's my guesswork on DDR2.

With DDR2, the system BEGINS at 1:1, because the current FSB of P4's is 800, and DDR2 starts out at DDR400 speeds. It is running "synchronously", but as I'll attempt to show that is not a goal for it's own sake, it is simply a descriptor for the highest performance you can get under the old DDR1 system.

The difference with DDR2 that makes "synchronous" operation not ideal is due to simply to math and the fact that current systems FSB is 800. Because DDR400/1:1 is the base and not the goal, our settings in BIOS actually give us a <i>multiplier</i> for the the RAM (vs FSB), rather than a divider. Thus allowing a system bus at 800FSB to run at higher memory buspeeds than possible at 1:1, the best performance possibly being in an "asynchronous" mode. Example:

Ignoring the 'quad data rate' for simplicity of math... At stock speeds, my CPU runs FSB 800 (of course). I have three settings available for RAM:

DDR400 (1:1) - 800 FSB/800 RAM buspeed : runs the RAM as slow as it can go which is the same speed as the system bus.

DDR533 (3:4) - 800 FSB/1066 RAM buspeed : runs the RAM at slightly higher bandwidth than the FSB

DDR600 (2:3) - 800FSB/1200 Ram buspeed: Faster yet.

So if I stay at stock CPU FSB, my best bet is to pick the 2:3 multiplier because that gives me the highest RAM bandwidth. That is why DDR2/667(PC25300/5400) is useful- <b>Due to the available RAM multiplier, the system FSB doesn't need to keep up with RAM buspeed</b>. 1:1 "synchronous" operation is now a floor rather than the ceiling it was under DDR1.

Furthermore, CPU multi unlocking is not as critical with DDR2 systems as it was with DDR1. Again, this has to do that functionality being implemented under the RAM buspeed. We have multis for RAM rather than performance-killing dividers. So "synchronous" operation should be taken with a grain of salt, as we are talking about math relationship that changes over time as components become more capable. For example, if there were FSB 1600 CPU's on the market, 1:1 would again represent the ceiling of operation and we'd be back to using a divider for underperforming RAM, assuming the fastest DDR2 RAM will be DDR2/800.

Does that make any kind of sense? I know there's some things I left out or didn't go into, but I think this post is long enough hehe.

 

[jammydodger]

But I will want my pc very silent and cool

Then why the hell did you get a 3.0Ghz prescott??? It is the hottest desktop CPU on the market.

 

[jammydodger]

Ummmm I think the important thing you are forgetting is that the RAM is connected to the northbridge at 533Mhz (dual channel) Which gives a max bandwidth of 8528GB/sec.
HOWEVER the northbridge is connected to the CPU at 800Mhz which provides a 6,400GB/s maximum through put.

...are you seeing the problem here?

 

[Imp]

Nope. What's the problem?

 

[Aheegx]

Hi People,
Thanks for your replies.
I dont know much about whats going on, so could u explain abit more simply please.
I dont want a completely silent computer but, im sure if i water cool this pc, it will b quiter then fans.

Also, so what exactly is the problem here, I wont be overclocking. What CPU and Mobo will work with the ddr2 ram i want? I dont want to overclock.

Or whats a really good ram and mobo, should i consider buying a faster cpu? I want it to go well with my 6800 ultra.
Thanks again guys

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Aheegx on 11/14/04 10:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[jammydodger]

How can the CPU possibly ustilise the extra bandwidth offered by the RAM if the connection between the northbridge and CPU is slower than the RAM? The extra bandwidth just goes to waste.
Think about is Dual channel 667RAM = 1334Mhz Northbridge to CPU = 800Mhz...notice the problem?

 

[mozzartusm]

A simple explanation is that you better do more research. These issues are very technical, if Crashmans reply went over your head then its going to be difficult to explain in simple terms. Im not picking on you, im just trying to let you know that you need to famiiarize yourself with some of the basics. This is a very good forum for someone needing info, but your not going to get very far unless you have a better understanding of the basics!

 

[Guest]

Would the below ram be better than the ddr2 667 or not?

Corsair 1GB DDR XMS3200XL Pro TwinX (2x512MB) CAS2A matched pair of 512MB XMS3200XL ExtremeLow Latency (2-5-2-2) Pro memory modules - 1GB total

 

[Crashman]

With an 800 bus P4 (stock speed) the 2-2-2-5 memory you listed will provide superior results because it has less latency.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

Nice. thx for the reply.

 

[Aheegx]

hi,

i dont really have time for research.
would like to know`wot ram, mobo and cpu go well together, for best erformance without overclocking.

thank u

 

[jammydodger]

D00d why not get an Athlon64?

 

[Guest]

I have winchester 3500 (90nm) neo mb

 

[jammydodger]

sorry I meant to address that to Aheegx.

 

[Aheegx]

Because I have a p4 at work and it works well. I just want stonger ram and mobo.
A guy at www.overclockers.co.uk, ( one of uks best online pc sales sites ) says I should get 2 Crucial Ballistix 5300 667mhz and MSI Neo2 Platinum or Gigabyte GA-8ANXP-D Rev2.0 with 3.2ghz p4 LGa775.
Would that be ok? or even a 3.0ghz. would it not work properly well? wot should i buy to get the fastest ram?
Thank u

 

[jammydodger]

It would work well, but I dont think the increase in performance of DDR2 667 over DD1 400 justifies the increase in cost. You have to bare in mind that although dual channel PC5300 effictivly works at 1334Mhz the P4 bus is only 800/1066Mhz so the extra bandwidth goes to waste. Plus DDR2 had much higher latencies than DDR1 which is bad for performance.
I still think an Athlon64 is a better bet, it will end up cheaper, run cooler (everyone knows the P4 prescotts are the hottest desktop CPU's on the market) and will be faster with most applications (esspecially games).

 

[mozzartusm]

I have a 3.0E overclocked to 3449.6. Seems to be running stable. Its got 2 x 256 Corsair PC 4000 for RAM. I'm not sure how much more is can OC, but im happy with my current numbers. Good luck with whatever you choose!