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Sound System

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November 24, 2004 4:36:03 PM

I do alot of home recording / producing on my computer. I have a 5.1 System right now. I was thinking of getting a very high quality 2.1 system since I dont watch movies and play games mostly with headphones. What do you audiophiles think would give me the more pure sound, 2.1 or 5.1? I want a system I can mix music on and when I listen to it its not going to sound totally diffrent on a nice car stereo. I dont know if its cause my 5.1 sucks, but after mixing stuff down on this, on other stereos etc it sounds alot diffrent. Any thoughts opinions aprpeciated...

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT

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November 24, 2004 8:25:22 PM

Most if not all, at least the ones I have seen, use studio monitors in a 2.0 configuration for the intial recording.

So I say get good quality speakers in 2.0 when recording/mixing.

Just my opinion, I'm no expert.

the Prisoner

I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 24, 2004 9:42:09 PM

I totally agree with the Prisoner.

If audio production is your main focus, your definately going to be better off with studio monitors in a stereo or 2.1 setup. Computer speakers, and for that matter home stereo speakers, aren't cut out for studio work because they aren't designed with the same flat response. Your best bet is to go down to your local Daddy's Junky Music, Guitar Center, or other retailer on or offline (even ebay) and pick up a decent pair of monitors.

The sound card will also make a difference. The Platinum Pro is a good choice, and should work fine. I prefer the dedicated I/O myself, and use a MOTU 828 to save myself from buying multiple cards for my workstation and mobile PC. Also, always check the Audigy to make sure the DSP is off, as any sound card based signal processing will mess up the mixdown.

Another thing that you may want to do is run through a stereo to double check your mix. I don't use "PC" speakers, so I will run through my JBL monitors or headphones when recording and mixing, and then switch playback to a AIWA stereo to check the mix. I also use the stereo as my everyday speakers.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jarrett
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November 24, 2004 11:00:28 PM

jheine, explained it well.

Studio monitors are built a certain way because, you are sitting near the speakers.
I'm not sure if this term means anything anymore but they used to be called nearfield monitors. Meaning they are for upclose listening.(hehe, sound like a computer speakers.)

The cost of a studio monitor is better but the price is higher. If you are starting a band or doing some mixing for your friends, decent speakers are fine to just see what you can do. Then try something better.

Like Jarret said turn off the DSP. Just use stereo/2.0.

I used to screw around with a Tascam 4 channel Reel to Reel and did some fun stuff.

My computer speakers are over the top. I have some old JBL 4311s as my main computer speakers. They were made for a studio or a small room and works great for a computer. I had them laying around, so why not use them. I have had them since college. I got them used from my parents, in like 1980.

JBL is not the company they used to be.

the Prisoner







I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 25, 2004 12:28:37 PM

Yeah im constantly rendering down and checking mixes on home stereo's, car stereo's etc. It would just be way easier and save me alot more time to have a setup on the computer that compared more to a traditional stereo.

When I bought the Audigy Pro Plat, I just started using the computer to record, so it was a starting point, in the future I would definetly like to get a better card, maybe we could talk sometime and you could point me in the right direction, tell me a few pointers as far as that goes. Id still like to keep my computer speakers for gaming and music as well as audio production so im thinking maybe a 2.1 setup would be the best between both worlds. Are there any 2.1 systems you guys could recommend? I hear the kilpsch is nice as far as listning to music / games go, I have no clue about them as far as audio production.

I uinstalled all that junk that came with the soundcard (effects software, all the useless stuff etc etc). Ive actually been involved with music since ive been 13, and for the past couple years have discontinued my involvment in bands and pretty much just work on solo stuff with myself or a few friends.

I dont know if I want to go as far as getting moniters yet (I have so much old gear laying around that I dont want to get anything to specific in case I fall out of music for awhile itll just add to the cluter, If i can get something i use regardless for a bunch of things, that will be more fail safe).

I got the remnants of my bass amp (Mesa 4x10, Peavy GPS 2600 Watt Power Amp, Peavy Max Preamp) and my guitar amp (Peavy Triple XXX Combo) just sitting around wasting space, I couldnt find anyone to buy them locally and im not interested in selling them threw ebay (to much hassle not enough money lol). A pair of studio moniters is the last thing I want to add to that pile.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rx7000 on 11/25/04 09:34 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 25, 2004 1:42:17 PM

Depending on how much you're looking to spend, there are a lot of better sound cards out there that you can use as well, many that don't have any DSP because they're actual studio-grade sound cards. Brands like M-Audio, RME, and Lynx come to mind. For studio monitors, JBL makes some (though they're kind of lower end), M-Audio, Peavey, Roland, Edirol (REAL nice equipment), Macky, and Yamaha do. I'd go Edirol, but they're pretty pricey, but sound REAL good with a good source unit.

umheint0's phat setup --> <A HREF="http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umheint0/system.html" target="_new">http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umheint0/system.html&lt;/A><--
November 26, 2004 5:04:44 AM

I more interested in a 2.1 speaker setup.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
November 26, 2004 7:13:25 PM

Thanks.

True, JBL isn't as good as they used to be, but luckily I scored a couple older 4208s from a DigiBid fire sale. (DigiBid is an affiliate of eBay, selling used music and production equipment, and their based in CT, so they do damaged clearance sales locally from time to time.)
November 26, 2004 7:40:27 PM

I can totally understand the gear pile. I've been amassing a pile for 18 years myself, covering bass, guitar, recording, keyboard, and other equipment. It's not easy trying to find something that fits the bill all the time. I'm not a gamer myself, and don't watch movies on the PC, so I decided to forgo the PC speaker route and save a couple bucks using my stereo. I bought the JBLs because they were a deal I couldn't pass up.

There are studio monitors sold in a 2.1 bundle. I know Event had the Triad monitors at one time, and I'm sure there are others, but I haven't looked at them for some time. Your best bet is to read as many reviews as you can and see what sounds the best for you, then/or go to the stores and sample them yourself.

I do remember seeing EV monitors at CompUSA a couple years ago. I'm not sure how good they were, as I didn't see a review for them, but I think they were 2.1, High power (150W if I remember right), and had I not needed the cash for other things I would have bought them just because they were EV.

Another thing you can try is to get an A/B box at Radio Shack to A/B the speakers. This way there's not time wasted after setup - just hit a switch and change from PC speaker or monitor out to stereo in.

OT - How do you like the Mesa 4x10? I'm not planning anything yet, but I know I'll be in the market for a 4x10 as soon as I can afford it. I wanted the Trace Eliot, mainly because you can tune it using port baffles, but $800+ is a pretty big chunk of change on my budget. I want just one setup for guitar and bass (4-, 5-, and 8-string). I'm running the Digitech 2112 processor and a GK 800RB head. I also have the Peavy Bassfex for extra effects.

Jarrett
November 27, 2004 7:13:03 AM

Studio monitors sold in 2.1? That means 2 fronts and one
subwoofer.

True studios would never be sold that way. You dont want a subwoofer influencing the "sound" then again I'm somewhat old school.

EV's are low quality then again their are alot of low quality speakers in the Best Buy type stores. Most likey better then the average computer speaker.

Are the Mesa's for live music,band wise or for studio? I assume live.

For live, you can make some that sound great, harder for studio of home use, but not alot harder.

the Prisoner



I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 27, 2004 4:27:42 PM

Yeah, I haven't completely bought in to the 2.1 studio monitors either, but the configuration is out there by multiple brands, probably so they can skimp a little on the main drivers. I've also seen subs sold separately to add to your monitor setup. I would imagine it would help with the smaller near-ifeld monitors that use 6.5 inch speakers to extend the low range. I guess it works though, because the 2.1 combo has been out for quite a few years now.

The EVs could have been. I never saw a review on them, and there was no display model in the store to listen to, so I haven't a clue how good they were. It was mainly the sudden "cool" factor of having EV computer monitors that looked like mini stage speakers that ran 140 watts. I got over it quickly. :cool:

The Mesa is definately for band wise stuff. It's a bass cabinet loaded with 4 10" speakers and probably a high frequency driver. I'm going to be in the market for a 4x10 eventually, and RX700 mentioned it, so I had to ask, hence the Off Topic heading. There's no better review than years of personal experience with something.

Jarrett
November 27, 2004 6:49:44 PM

For studio use, I have never seen a 2.1 setup. Maybe now with hip hop style music maybe,but I'm not into that type of muzak. Then again it has been along time since I have been in one, maybe 6 years ago and it was an older studio,
with mid 80's equipment mixed with some current stuff.

Having a subwoofer in a studio situation does not make sense to me. Well, in terms of woofers, my 4311s, a studio monitor has 10" woofers. I also have some 4312s with 12" woofers. I realize that bass at a certain point isnt directional. But when you are that mixing board, I dont see how it would help, maybe for Rap/Hip Hop and disco.

I dont listen or ever been involved in Rap/Hip Hop or disco music. Lots of jazz, classical, big band, old R & B, Soul, garage band, pre-punk, current punk, post punk and etc.

Of course you can add a sub to your monitors, I have subwoofers. One I bought, 2 made by a friend and one I made.

EVs(Electro Voice) have been around for many years. It has been years since I have heard one in terms of live music. They were decent sounding and didnt cost alot.

Off topic thing was fine. I was just curious. 4 10s and a horn loaded tweeter I would think.

Sorry for being ignorant on the more modern stuff coming out. Time to Google! I would like to get back into live music/recording.

At least a good discussion.

the Prisoner

I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 27, 2004 8:02:45 PM

That's cool. I've got the 8" in my 6208s, and they are pretty good. It's been a bit longer since I've been in the studio (10 years), but I occasionally browse the shops and mags to keep up on new trends, and I've seen subs popping up for about 6 or so years now.

I'm not into the rap/hip hop/R&B thing either. Mostly metal, goth, and industrial, but was also in a project that ran the gamut of musical styles for about a year (think early Mr. Bungle). For the industrial, I can see where subs can be good, since it's more dance orientated. That is, unless you write Noise (actual sub-clasification of Industral), which may or may not matter.

I actually used to have an old Sunn cab loaded with 2 EV 15" speakers. It never let me down. I got rid of it mainly because it was the size of a midsized frigerator, and got tired of transporting it.

Jarrett
November 27, 2004 9:38:16 PM

I should of added metal, Goth and Industrial. I like those. I mean
non-comercial type music. I'm a old timer 44 years old, open to most music.

When say I been in a studio, I mean as an observer. I did lights and soundboard when I was younger. I bought a 4 track reel to reel as a kid, you would be amazed what you can do with it.

I can understand lugging that stuff around. My buddy that taught me to make speakers has a small refrigerator size {6foot, 2.5ft, 3 ft?] cabinet using a vintage 18" JBL woofer, with a self made 1200 watt class D amp. Over the top but it is his hobby.
Let's say you better have no loose items around.

I dont browse anymore but I should.

I would like to get back into it.

It was funny at Thanksgiving dinner with 4 teenagers who arent into commercial music and we had a long conversation about old and new music(Movies and Books also)music old, new, and all types. The ultimate comment was "You don't talk like an Adult"

the Prisoner




I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 27, 2004 9:42:25 PM

Actually, you got me thinking. I'm wondering if there's some tools out there for online collaberation? I'm gonna have to see if there's some CSV or other web apps to help foster online music projets. I'd love to put up a website taylored to that, I just need to find the backend to make it work. It's not the first time I thought of it, but I don't know if anyones done something like an open music project website, similar to open source software, where random musicians across the net contribute to make origional music, an have a central area to talk and host files. As long as a common format is used, such as .wav or .mp3, to promote cross platform/software compatability, it would work.

Jarrett
November 27, 2004 10:23:40 PM

I had a cousin in the 1960s who had a pirate radio station. They had it in a van. The transmitter was maybe 5-20? watts but if you are on hill that can go far.

What is CVS?

In terms of online radio stations, their is Winamp. Their are many websites to share music, not napster like but just to have fun promote themselves.

You got me thinking too, do you mean live, we play music back and forth. Winamp/shoutcast.com can be live.

Well, in terms of an open soure/share music sites, their are many.

The cool thing is we could mix live!

Cool idea.

the Prisoner



I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
November 28, 2004 11:53:12 AM

Ok someone wanna link me to two small studio moniters that would be good for the 2.0 setup for mixing.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
November 29, 2004 7:19:48 PM

How much do you want to pay? Also, check used stereo stores in your area, then you can listen before you buy. If you have a friend or relative with power tools you could try a speaker kit. Some are very easy to put together.

Looking around, which I should done before I asked why you wanted a 2.1 system. Now looking around you might consider a 2.1. I guess I never felt the need for a 2.1 because I have studio monitors with 10" and 12" woofers. But it likes that might be a good option, may cost you more.

For the price and quality check out these links: NHT<A HREF="http://www.nhthifi.com/2004/" target="_new">http://www.nhthifi.com/2004/&lt;/A>

Paradigm speakers:<A HREF="http://www.paradigm.com/" target="_new">http://www.paradigm.com/&lt;/A>

The best thing would be to goto a used stereo store and listen to the speakers and ask alot of questions. These type of stores will let you bring the speaker home to listen it in your home and if you dont like you can exchange or get your money back. Audio is not just their job but their hobby, so they will give you good advice. Most of these stores sell new stuff, so you are not limited to used.

Most of these stores I bought from let you have a year credit. So, if you buy an amp from them for 200.00, it is still worth 200.00 as a trade in, so you can keep upgrading
your equipment.

the Prisoner

I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
December 1, 2004 3:43:02 AM

The CSV is the backend software used by software developers to manage development submissions. It lets someone check-out the source, then submit changes in a non-destructive way, so it can be reviewed and implemented.

I'm looking for something where, as an example, I can post a bass riff. You can then take it and add a drum beat behind it. Because you check it out like a library book, Crashman can't add a guitar riff and accidentally overwrite your change. He would have to DL the new file that you uploaded, essentially checking it out, so he can add the guitar riff and send it back. Then RX7000 could take it and add a keyboard riff or add another bass riff to extend the song. It's an open music project based on the principles of open source software.

Jarrett
December 1, 2004 3:50:24 AM

The way I see it, your only as old as you want to be. I see people of all ages still performing, writing, modeling, etc. My father-in-law to be is in his 60s and is a professional escape artist. He just did a publicity stunt a few weeks ago, escaping from a straight-jacket while suspended from a 60-foot crane by a burning rope. Age is but a number, and the only thing stoping someone from doing something is oneself.


And that is one serious subwoofer!

Jarrett
December 1, 2004 4:18:05 AM

Like the Prisoner said, it really depends on the budget.

I'm not sure where you are [peeks at profile], but you can check out your local <A HREF="http://www.daddys.com/" target="_new">Daddy's Junky Music</A>, Sam Ash, Guitar Center, and other local spots. If you see something on the Daddy's web site, they will transfer it to the local store so you can look at it and try it out. You'll find small monitors from Mackie, Roland/Edirol, Event, KRK, Samson, and Genelec, to name a few of the top of my head. Also check out <A HREF="http://www.musiciansfriend.com/" target="_new">Musician's Friend</A>. <A HREF="http://www.sweetwater.com/" target="_new">Sweetwater Sound</A> has been around for years as well, and they carry alot of high-end gear as well.

One other thing to remember is that studio monitors come in both powered and unpowered varieties. If the budget (or equipment craze, whichever takes over) is there, you may decide to get a separate power amp that you could use in other situations. Just something to add to the confusion, or to weed out half the choices as the case may be.

Jarrett
December 6, 2004 11:42:55 PM

this might help you a lot.

i use for recording sounds ed the simple soundblaster live 5.1 but instead of using it's built in A/D convertors i bought an external A/D D/A convertor (micromega) and it bumps up the quality ways more than any soundcard can do. All the hissling and background noises are gone as most of these noisies come from all the working units of the comp you're using. on a digital signal this has ni influence and as the A/D D/A conversion happens outside of the comp that means that these interferrings are bypassed.

the price of such a convertor is a bit more expensive then a sound card, but much more worth the price :lol: 

<font color=purple><i> Enosi and I.... </i></font color=purple>
December 10, 2004 10:51:37 PM

Always worth the price for external converters. That's why I use a MOTU 828. It's external, it's firewire, and it 8 channel I/O. Now I just need to quiet the fan noise on my rackmount PC.

Jarrett
!