[Level 9] Putting together a "definitive" set of games

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Hi all,

I was a big fan of Level 9 back in the 80s, and had virtually all of
their games for my trusty Amstrad CPC. Sadly, when the time came to sell
it the games had to go too. Between that, going off to university and
all the rest of it, it's taken until now to pick one up again. Happily,
for once they're just as good as I remembered.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I'd like to put together a sort of
"definitive" set of their games, including the best version of each
game. I seem to remember that Level 9 might have tailored their games to
fit within the confines of each platform, adjusting the amount of text
and number of graphics if necessary; the idea is to root out the
versions that have the best of each. The IF Archive mostly has Spectrum
and BBC versions, which don't always include the bitmap graphics that
the later games had on some platforms, for example.

Since there are people here who know a lot more about this than I do, it
would be good if I could pick a few brains... (All those who are annoyed
by pedantry, look away now.)

1. What is the current copyright status of these games? They're in the
Archive and marked as "Former Commercial" by Baf, but what's the
position when it comes to e.g. redistributing them? (If I get the set
together, I'd like to make it available somehow, either by uploading
it to the Archive or putting it on my own website; would it be best
to contact one of the Austins first? If so, does anybody know how I
can track them down?)

2. Apart from the significant expansion of the text that happened when
e.g. Lords of Time got a facelift for inclusion in the Time and Magik
trilogy, is the text in all the versions the same, or have some been
"trimmed to fit"?

3. Following on from (2), are the line graphics the same on all
platforms, or are there differences to account e.g. for the number of
available colours? For example, the PC version of Silicon Dreams
alone comes with two versions, for CGA and Hercules displays, but I
can't see any obvious difference between them when I run them through
the Level9 interpreter. What's the story here?

At the moment, I'm trying to dig out the Amiga versions of all the games
with bitmap graphics (since they're generally a little better than the
other versions) but I've only managed to track down the Time and Magik
trilogy, Scapeghost and Lancelot. That leaves Knight Orc, Gnome Ranger
and Gnome Ranger II: Ingrid's Back!; does anyone have copies of these
that they could send me? (Just take the magic word out of my email address.)

What I'd like to finish up with is a set of games, together with nicely
typeset versions of the novellas that came with some of them (the ones
I've found on the 'net leave a bit to be desired), and aesthetically
pleasing interpreters for as many platforms as possible. (Gargoyle has
been a revelation, and Cugel looks like it'll do the same for OSX.) The
end result, I reckon, will be a fitting tribute to the company that
first ignited my interest in IF.

Cheers,

Peter
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

aphill@altavista.com wrote:
> Didn't "High School Adventure" come from Level 9?
>
No, in fact I've never heard of this one. A little googling turned up an
RPG by Pony Canyon, released in 1987 for the MSX (screenshot at
http://www.generation-msx.nl/msxdb/softwareinfo/990); is this the one
you're thinking of?

Level 9 were a British software house, founded in 1981 by Pete, Mike and
Nick Austin to produce a port of Advent for British computers like the
Spectrum. From there, they went on to become, along with Infocom and
Magnetic Scrolls, one of the three most powerful forces in IF at the
time. They produced 20 games, more than pretty much anybody other than
Infocom, and used a pretty sophisticated parser (not as good as Infocom
or Magnetic Scrolls, but a lot better than most at the time). The games
had their faults, but they also had a lot of charm, and I loved them. If
you want to know more, try the Level 9 Memorial
(http://www.if-legends.org/~l9memorial/html/home.html). Their games are
now classified as "Former Commercial" and can be found in the IF Archive
(start at http://wurb.com/if/company/15 to get them).

The games were standard IF, but most of them came with illustrations for
some or all of the locations, first line graphics and later bitmap
pictures. The reason I started this thread is that my (admittedly
unreliable) memory tells me that they had to trim the text and remove
some of the graphics on some machines in order to squeeze the games into
the limited memory available. As a result, the versions in the Archive
may not be the best ones from that point of view, and I wanted to pick
the considerable brains of the folk here on the subject. The ultimate
aim is to offer, for download, a complete set of Level 9 games,
presented in the best possible light -- my tribute to them, if you will.

Cheers,

Peter
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Hi

You can get some Level9 (spectrum) games from here:

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekpub.cgi?regexp=^Level+9+Computing$&model=spectrum


Kind Regards,
RootShell

--
RootShell, Lisbon, Portugal, Europe, Earth ;)
To protect against spam, the address in the "From:" header is not valid.
In any case, you should reply to the group so that everyone can benefit.
If you must send me a private email, use -> RootShell AT netcabo DOT pt
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:00:51 +0100, Peter Mattsson
<peter@XYZZYmattssons.e7even.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I was a big fan of Level 9 back in the 80s, and had virtually all of
>their games for my trusty Amstrad CPC. Sadly, when the time came to sell
>it the games had to go too. Between that, going off to university and

[snip]

You might like to check out http://capsdi.free.fr for amiga images.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Peter Mattsson wrote:
> aphill@altavista.com wrote:
>
>> Didn't "High School Adventure" come from Level 9?
>>
> No, in fact I've never heard of this one. A little googling turned up an
> RPG by Pony Canyon, released in 1987 for the MSX (screenshot at
> http://www.generation-msx.nl/msxdb/softwareinfo/990); is this the one
> you're thinking of?
>
> Level 9 were a British software house, founded in 1981 by Pete, Mike and
> Nick Austin to produce a port of Advent for British computers like the
> Spectrum. From there, they went on to become, along with Infocom and
> Magnetic Scrolls, one of the three most powerful forces in IF at the
> time. They produced 20 games, more than pretty much anybody other than
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter

Interesting that you mention MSX, because I played some of Level 9's
games on it (MSX 1) around 1990: The Price of Magik, Red Moon, Worm in
Paradise. As it was a late 8-bit system (coming out around 85 in Japan)
with 64k RAM and 'advanced' graphics and sound chips, I'd suppose there
wouldn't be any need for trimming down to fit its requirements, so MSX
versions would probably be complete, but of course, I don't know for
sure. I remember playing with line drawing graphics, and a text window
of 80 columns per 12 (~~) lines of text.

I don't have them anymore (nor my MSX), but I'd love to know where I
could get them (all the games), are they are available (coff coff) for free?

Emiliano.
 

Tor

Distinguished
Nov 16, 2002
23
0
18,510
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Peter Mattsson wrote:
> Anyway, Emiliano raised an interesting point, especially in light of the
> recent discussion on raif about trying to sell IF again. The original
> plan was to put together the games to offer for free, but I'm now coming
> to think that there could be some mileage in actually trying to sell
> them, probably as a paid-for download. Essentially, if Howard Sherman
> (Malinche Entertainment) can sell his games for 19.95 a pop as a
> download, why shouldn't Level 9 follow suit? (I've raised the matter
> with Mike Austin, and am waiting to see what he says.) In a sense, it's
> a no-lose proposition; the costs would be minimal, and we could always
> revert to free distribution later if it didn't work out.

Have you ever actually played a Howard Sherman game?
If so, was it worth the money?

> My feeling is that, ironically, charging for it would make it easier to
> market to people outside the current IF community (people tend to
> respect something they have to pay for). Also, the money raised could be
> put into better advertising, and, ultimately, into a boxed edition for
> retail sale. Another idea could be to bind together the novellas that
> were included with the later games, include a CD of the games in the
> back, and sell the result in bookshops. (I made a similar suggestion on
> raif and it went down like a lead balloon, but I still think we could
> reach more people this way.)

Would you be doing this because you want to become rich, or because
you think it will make interactive fiction popular with a market that
obviously doesn't care? Sorry to pop your balloon, but I don't think
either one will fly.

Just give it up and make it convenient for the people who *do* care ;)

Besides, these games are old and a part of our history and culture and
legacy and nostalgia and all that. As such, they belong in the public
domain more than they belong in the hands of money-grabbers.
Just like Shakespeare and and all those other classics.

Tor
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Emiliano Padilha wrote:
>
> I don't have them anymore (nor my MSX), but I'd love to know where I
> could get them (all the games), are they are available (coff coff) for
> free?
>
> Emiliano.

First off, thanks to everyone who replied; I've now got enough material
to put a decent set of games together. I am still missing some of the
manuals/clue sheets though (basically, those that aren't in the IF
Archive already), so if anyone can help with those ... ?

Anyway, Emiliano raised an interesting point, especially in light of the
recent discussion on raif about trying to sell IF again. The original
plan was to put together the games to offer for free, but I'm now coming
to think that there could be some mileage in actually trying to sell
them, probably as a paid-for download. Essentially, if Howard Sherman
(Malinche Entertainment) can sell his games for 19.95 a pop as a
download, why shouldn't Level 9 follow suit? (I've raised the matter
with Mike Austin, and am waiting to see what he says.) In a sense, it's
a no-lose proposition; the costs would be minimal, and we could always
revert to free distribution later if it didn't work out.

My feeling is that, ironically, charging for it would make it easier to
market to people outside the current IF community (people tend to
respect something they have to pay for). Also, the money raised could be
put into better advertising, and, ultimately, into a boxed edition for
retail sale. Another idea could be to bind together the novellas that
were included with the later games, include a CD of the games in the
back, and sell the result in bookshops. (I made a similar suggestion on
raif and it went down like a lead balloon, but I still think we could
reach more people this way.)

The bottom line is, if you were offered a well-presented set of Level
9's games, easy to install and with technical support, would you go for
it? Can you imagine other people outside the community going for it? If
so, what would the right price-point be?

Cheers,

Peter
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Peter Mattsson wrote:
> The bottom line is, if you were offered a well-presented set of Level
> 9's games, easy to install and with technical support, would you go for
> it? Can you imagine other people outside the community going for it? If
> so, what would the right price-point be?

I would pay nothing although I can imagine that you might have to pay
significantly more. The lawyers of, at least, the Level 9 people would
definately go for it^H^Hyou.

Unless you have copyright for all materials that you will be offering
commercially you are treading on very dangerous water and you haven't
even mentioned royalties.

I'm sure others will point out further how you *could* end up in a whole
heap of trouble or worse.

Jon Ripley
--
http://jonripley.com/
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <1127436978.414739.118350@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tor <tor.andersson@gmail.com> wrote:
>Besides, these games are old and a part of our history and culture and
>legacy and nostalgia and all that. As such, they belong in the public
>domain more than they belong in the hands of money-grabbers.
>Just like Shakespeare and and all those other classics.

Just like Snow White and Cinderella and....

You know, I think I'd better stop while I still have my Cheerios.

Adam
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Peter Mattsson wrote:
>
> Anyway, Emiliano raised an interesting point, especially in light of the
> recent discussion on raif about trying to sell IF again. The original
> plan was to put together the games to offer for free, but I'm now coming
> to think that there could be some mileage in actually trying to sell
> them, probably as a paid-for download. Essentially, if Howard Sherman
> (Malinche Entertainment) can sell his games for 19.95 a pop as a
> download, why shouldn't Level 9 follow suit? (I've raised the matter
> with Mike Austin, and am waiting to see what he says.) In a sense, it's
> a no-lose proposition; the costs would be minimal, and we could always
> revert to free distribution later if it didn't work out.
>
> My feeling is that, ironically, charging for it would make it easier to
> market to people outside the current IF community (people tend to
> respect something they have to pay for). Also, the money raised could be
> put into better advertising, and, ultimately, into a boxed edition for
> retail sale. Another idea could be to bind together the novellas that
> were included with the later games, include a CD of the games in the
> back, and sell the result in bookshops. (I made a similar suggestion on
> raif and it went down like a lead balloon, but I still think we could
> reach more people this way.)
>
> The bottom line is, if you were offered a well-presented set of Level
> 9's games, easy to install and with technical support, would you go for
> it? Can you imagine other people outside the community going for it? If
> so, what would the right price-point be?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter


Would they run exactly like in the 80's systems, with line drawing
graphics (faster, please) and scrolling text beneath? Would you wrap
them in a nice package, maybe with some of the 80's original cover
drawings? With all the manual files and novellas together?

If so, then, YES, by all means, go for it! Especially if, as you say,
the costs could be minimal. I think a Level 9 Anthology would be great,
and could have a reasonable (by IF terms) selling, if you can divulge it
beyond newsgroups, or put it in a few bookstores. The key, I think,
would be the package, the covers, make it "80's are back, let's play IF
again!" :)

Probably, it can't be priced more than $20 (oh, sacrilege, I meant
$19.99, of course...), and make it clear in the cover that they are 80's
games, their number, list, plus a little history of the company, which
systems they appeared for, hints inside the box, when reaching the world
at large. Oh, and if possible disable those bizarre copy-protection
checks, or better yet, give an option to turn them inoperative, so you'd
still see them, but you could just press enter to go ahead.

Another thing, you could release one or two free 'teasers' around, say
the ones with better graphics or the first ones in a trilogy (say,
Colossal Adventure and The Price of Magik?).

Emiliano.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On 23 Sep 2005 01:34:40 -0700, "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>gotten

Not in my part of the world. Or Peter's, I suspect.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

You should absolutely go for it if you can. Anything that gets IF out
to more people equals a very good thing in my book.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Kevin Venzke wrote:
> What do you mean by "indefensible" in this case?

You mean "got" instead of "gotten"? Beside the given that the past
tense is instead the past participle as if they were saying two
different verbs at once (a sad downfall in the rest of English), the
/getting/ of something is usually irrelevant to the subject when
speakers talk about what they own, or /have/. So they can hardly even
juggle having and getting in the same speech, switching between them as
if they had no idea what they were talking about. It makes me want to
strangle the cretins Jamie Oliver and Steve Irwin, who don't bother to
make or know the distinction at all. The dumb Americans bandied it
too. Then again I want to strangle the Teutuls on American Chopper for
not knowing the difference between adjectives and adverbs, or objects
and subjects.

-Aut
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Suggest not feeding the troll. Remember, this child doesn't have
anything useful to contribute, and only delights in receiving attention,
even negative attention.

Kevin Venzke wrote:
> "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDOTT0tQZlu3o7QpERArH2AJ9HQV1tbPgSG1K5Nf5w6NO62XAsyQCgw6ZE
MJ5IVrYIptpWu4BfJ/+lfqk=
=1MR/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Derek Ray wrote:
> Suggest not feeding the troll. Remember, this child doesn't have
> anything useful to contribute, and only delights in receiving attention,
> even negative attention.

I'm not a troll, cretin. Either learn the truth or die.