Food + Drink + Mahjong AND Vietnamese MJ

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Greetings,

I was browsing the Boardgamegeek site when I found out a list (people
create lists of games in any themes they want and comment on them -
these are called Geeklists) that listed games the list creator had
spoiled because of spilling drinks or food on them. The title was:
SNACKTASTROPHE: When Games + Food = Big Fat Man-Tears

Of course I thought that food + drink + Mahjong go along pretty well
(almost irremediably). I guess it's hard to spoil a Mahjong set with
food or drink (*1), but I suppose those automatic shuffling tables
might be ruined or the table cloth irremediably lost.

Have you ever witnessed such an occurrence?

I suppose Mahjong parlours in Japan must have some policy regarding
this (like: Drinks only allowed in round breaks) - do you know of
something like it?

Oh - and since I mentioned Boardgamegeek - I found out a visitor that
had a list of games played in Vietnam - Mahjong was listed like this:

"Tam cuc. Almost anywhere you go in SE Asia you will hear the
chirruping of tiles, but I only ever heard it once in Vietnam. Some of
my Vietnamese friends had never seen a mah-jongg set before. Instead
they play with cards. They are like western playing cards, but tall
and thin and with the mah-jongg symbols."

Since there is little info about the Vietnamese rules - I tried my
luck with this message:

"Can you give me any further info about Mahjong in Vietnam? I have the
information that they use a specific rule set (particularly 160 tile
sets) - were you aware of it? Any commentaries will be treasured since
there is little info about Vietnamese Mahjong"

To what he replied:

"I have asked my Vietnamese wife but she says she knows nothing about
the game, other than there are Vietnamese cards which resemble my Mah
Jong set. She didn't like getting involved with card games, as too
many of her friends are addicted to gambling. " (*2)

Well, it only this. Perhaps some conclusions may be drawn?

Cheers!
Filipe

*1 - Unless you are drinking grog AND it really has battery acid added
in! ^_^

*2 - This reminded me a lot of my late grandfather - he didn't
know/play a single card game because he claimed he might get addicted
to gambling - when I played next to him he was always asking me to
quit. He told me his father religiously enforced the non-gaming rule
around the house when he was a kid.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Filipe Silva <laSPAMfey@netMENOTcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<h43mf05s3m65illhafrqad52pv1ti21n8p@4ax.com>...

> Oh - and since I mentioned Boardgamegeek - I found out a visitor that
> had a list of games played in Vietnam - Mahjong was listed like this:
>
> "Tam cuc. Almost anywhere you go in SE Asia you will hear the
> chirruping of tiles, but I only ever heard it once in Vietnam. Some of
> my Vietnamese friends had never seen a mah-jongg set before. Instead
> they play with cards. They are like western playing cards, but tall
> and thin and with the mah-jongg symbols."

Mahjong?? Tam cuc has nothing to do with Mahjong!

Quoting from John McLeod's Pagagt website at
http://www.pagat.com/class/chess.html

>There is a 32 card pack used in Vietnam for the game Tam Cúc
>(three chrysanthemums). Unusually, this pack has cards in the same
>numbers as the pieces used for the board game Xiangqi - each colour
>one general, two each of advisors, elephants, chariots, cannons and
>horses, and five soldiers. Tam Cuc is a trick-taking game, and is
>described in an article by Jude Wudarczyk: "Tam Cúc, the game of
>three chrysanthemums" in The Playing-Card Vol XXVI No 1 (1997)
>pp 2-8.

Vietnam belongs to the Chinese-influenced playing-card area.
Money-suited (i.e. "Mahjong symbol-like" suits), and chess cards are
used there. These cards are long and narrow. When they were made in
great numbers in Marseilles (France) during the 1st half of the past
century, the workers used to call them "tickets chinois".

Vietnam has some very peculiar card designs for such games as:
- tô-tôm which indeed is a kind of Mahjong-like game played by five
players (with a 120-card packs);
- bát, a four-suit money card pack;
- tam cúc, which uses "figurative" chess cards.

For bát and tô-tôm cards see:
http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cards50.htm

Cheers,
Thierry
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

On 19 Jul 2004 03:44:29 -0700, thierry.depaulis@freesbee.fr (Thierry
Depaulis) wrote:

>Mahjong?? Tam cuc has nothing to do with Mahjong!

I'm selling you guys at the same price he did so to say. ^_^

But I didn't know what was Tam Cuc. Interesting to see that they play
it with Xiangqi figures printed in cards for a whole different game. I
suppose the same happens with Mahjong somewhere? Just for curiosity
sake I'll list the other games he did:

"Pachisi: This must be the most popular board game in Vietnam judging
by the number of times it can be seen being played on the pavements or
parks. It is known as da' ngu'a or literally "kick horse". The game is
almost invariably played with horses as counters, or knights as we
would call them.
As it is played to traditional Asian rules, that a single piece blocks
movement, it is necessary to kick the opponents piece out of the way
to advance. This is usually done with a great flourish.
As is typical of Vietnam, I have seen a number of handmade boards, but
chess knights are always used as coutners. The game wouldn't be the
same if you couldn't kick the horse out of the way."

"Chinese Chess: Co' tu'o'ng, literally "chess general", after the
most important piece on the board."

"Checkers: Co' vua, literally "chess emperor". Once a piece is crown
it is called an emperor."

"Chess: Co', literally "chess". That's simple."

[here was the Mahjong entry)

"Poker: Though illegal in Vietnam, gambling with cards or other games
is very popular. A friend of mine was always having to bail out his
girlfriend's gambling debts. One night she got lucky and won a bar and
a nightclub. After that he had to bail out her losses from the bar and
the nightclub."

"Carrom [no comments added]"

After that there's a couple of comments - one of them regards Go-Moku
which seems to be popular in Vietnam and wasn't listed - the other
I'll fully quote:

"Interesting list, Bill.

You could add Bau Cua Ca Cop, the Vietnamese version of Hoo Hey How. 3
dice with pictures of a fish, prawn, crab, cockeral, calabash gourd
and a stag (the stag seems to be peculiar to the Vietnamese version)
are cast and players bet on which pictures will appear - rather like
Crown and Anchor dice. Often played at the New Year, they can even be
made of stiff paper.

The Vienamese also have money-suited playing cards (To Tom) and four
colour chess cards (don't know what they are called, but I have a pack
with the words Chat Luong Cao on the box). More information on
Vietnamese games with the English suited 52 card pack can be found at
http://www.pagat.com/national/vietnam.html
Interestingly, this site lists Tam Cuc as the name of a game played
with two colour chess cards.

Regards,
Keng Ho
Singapore"

Seems someone had spotted that mistake too. I personally believe it's
possible the whole reference was correct excluding the "Tam Cuc" name
- and that Vietnamese favor cards instead of tiles. Anyone knows if
the word in Vietnamese for tiles is the same as the word for tiles -
like Chinese "P'ai"?


Cheers,
Filipe
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

John McLeod's excellent card games site lists Tam Cuc as a game played with
two colour chess cards rather than Mahjong cards.

See http://www.pagat.com/national/vietnam.html

Regards,
Keng Ho

"Filipe Silva" <laSPAMfey@netMENOTcabo.pt> wrote in message
news:h43mf05s3m65illhafrqad52pv1ti21n8p@4ax.com...
> Greetings,
>
> I was browsing the Boardgamegeek site when I found out a list (people
> create lists of games in any themes they want and comment on them -
> these are called Geeklists) that listed games the list creator had
> spoiled because of spilling drinks or food on them. The title was:
> SNACKTASTROPHE: When Games + Food = Big Fat Man-Tears
>
> Of course I thought that food + drink + Mahjong go along pretty well
> (almost irremediably). I guess it's hard to spoil a Mahjong set with
> food or drink (*1), but I suppose those automatic shuffling tables
> might be ruined or the table cloth irremediably lost.
>
> Have you ever witnessed such an occurrence?
>
> I suppose Mahjong parlours in Japan must have some policy regarding
> this (like: Drinks only allowed in round breaks) - do you know of
> something like it?
>
> Oh - and since I mentioned Boardgamegeek - I found out a visitor that
> had a list of games played in Vietnam - Mahjong was listed like this:
>
> "Tam cuc. Almost anywhere you go in SE Asia you will hear the
> chirruping of tiles, but I only ever heard it once in Vietnam. Some of
> my Vietnamese friends had never seen a mah-jongg set before. Instead
> they play with cards. They are like western playing cards, but tall
> and thin and with the mah-jongg symbols."
>
> Since there is little info about the Vietnamese rules - I tried my
> luck with this message:
>
> "Can you give me any further info about Mahjong in Vietnam? I have the
> information that they use a specific rule set (particularly 160 tile
> sets) - were you aware of it? Any commentaries will be treasured since
> there is little info about Vietnamese Mahjong"
>
> To what he replied:
>
> "I have asked my Vietnamese wife but she says she knows nothing about
> the game, other than there are Vietnamese cards which resemble my Mah
> Jong set. She didn't like getting involved with card games, as too
> many of her friends are addicted to gambling. " (*2)
>
> Well, it only this. Perhaps some conclusions may be drawn?
>
> Cheers!
> Filipe
>
> *1 - Unless you are drinking grog AND it really has battery acid added
> in! ^_^
>
> *2 - This reminded me a lot of my late grandfather - he didn't
> know/play a single card game because he claimed he might get addicted
> to gambling - when I played next to him he was always asking me to
> quit. He told me his father religiously enforced the non-gaming rule
> around the house when he was a kid.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Filipe,
In case you had not noticed, it was I that posted that extra comment and
that was because I had read your post here.
Incidentally, a Google search for 'tam cuc' turns up a few other sites
(including some with pictures) where it is clear that tam cuc refers to
chess cards.
Regards,
Keng Ho

"Filipe Silva" <laSPAMfey@netMENOTcabo.pt> wrote in message
news:s01of0t3cv5mucct8csmd3n8n6aiag98v8@4ax.com...
> On 19 Jul 2004 03:44:29 -0700, thierry.depaulis@freesbee.fr (Thierry
> Depaulis) wrote:
>
> >Mahjong?? Tam cuc has nothing to do with Mahjong!
>
> I'm selling you guys at the same price he did so to say. ^_^
>
> But I didn't know what was Tam Cuc. Interesting to see that they play
> it with Xiangqi figures printed in cards for a whole different game. I
> suppose the same happens with Mahjong somewhere? Just for curiosity
> sake I'll list the other games he did:
>
> "Pachisi: This must be the most popular board game in Vietnam judging
> by the number of times it can be seen being played on the pavements or
> parks. It is known as da' ngu'a or literally "kick horse". The game is
> almost invariably played with horses as counters, or knights as we
> would call them.
> As it is played to traditional Asian rules, that a single piece blocks
> movement, it is necessary to kick the opponents piece out of the way
> to advance. This is usually done with a great flourish.
> As is typical of Vietnam, I have seen a number of handmade boards, but
> chess knights are always used as coutners. The game wouldn't be the
> same if you couldn't kick the horse out of the way."
>
> "Chinese Chess: Co' tu'o'ng, literally "chess general", after the
> most important piece on the board."
>
> "Checkers: Co' vua, literally "chess emperor". Once a piece is crown
> it is called an emperor."
>
> "Chess: Co', literally "chess". That's simple."
>
> [here was the Mahjong entry)
>
> "Poker: Though illegal in Vietnam, gambling with cards or other games
> is very popular. A friend of mine was always having to bail out his
> girlfriend's gambling debts. One night she got lucky and won a bar and
> a nightclub. After that he had to bail out her losses from the bar and
> the nightclub."
>
> "Carrom [no comments added]"
>
> After that there's a couple of comments - one of them regards Go-Moku
> which seems to be popular in Vietnam and wasn't listed - the other
> I'll fully quote:
>
> "Interesting list, Bill.
>
> You could add Bau Cua Ca Cop, the Vietnamese version of Hoo Hey How. 3
> dice with pictures of a fish, prawn, crab, cockeral, calabash gourd
> and a stag (the stag seems to be peculiar to the Vietnamese version)
> are cast and players bet on which pictures will appear - rather like
> Crown and Anchor dice. Often played at the New Year, they can even be
> made of stiff paper.
>
> The Vienamese also have money-suited playing cards (To Tom) and four
> colour chess cards (don't know what they are called, but I have a pack
> with the words Chat Luong Cao on the box). More information on
> Vietnamese games with the English suited 52 card pack can be found at
> http://www.pagat.com/national/vietnam.html
> Interestingly, this site lists Tam Cuc as the name of a game played
> with two colour chess cards.
>
> Regards,
> Keng Ho
> Singapore"
>
> Seems someone had spotted that mistake too. I personally believe it's
> possible the whole reference was correct excluding the "Tam Cuc" name
> - and that Vietnamese favor cards instead of tiles. Anyone knows if
> the word in Vietnamese for tiles is the same as the word for tiles -
> like Chinese "P'ai"?
>
>
> Cheers,
> Filipe
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Greetings,

No I completely missed it even though I read your earlier message. I
knew it could happen but I thought the chance would be too slim (of
you posting here and join Boardgamegeek and comment there that is).

Cheers,
Filipe

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:26:06 +0800, "Pwee Keng Ho"
<kengho@singmail.com> wrote:

>Filipe,
>In case you had not noticed, it was I that posted that extra comment and
>that was because I had read your post here.
>Incidentally, a Google search for 'tam cuc' turns up a few other sites
>(including some with pictures) where it is clear that tam cuc refers to
>chess cards.
>Regards,
>Keng Ho