MJ Rules by Sports Commission of China

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Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

In the last couple of days, I received three inquiries concerning the
subject captioned. Yesterday, I also received a journal from the
Japanese MJ Museum (which cosponsored the inaugural (2002) World MJ
Competition, initially scheduled for Ningbo but shifted to Tokyo). I
was all set to go to Ningbo (since it was my birthplace and I had not
visited it in over a dozen years), but cancelled out when the venue
shifted to Tokyo (I have been to Tokyo some 40 times). In about three
months' time, I shall be in China again. Given the recent activity in
the first two sentences above, the thought occurred to me that, perhaps,
I should dust off the manuscript I did in honor of the inaugural
competition (but chose not to publish it then), update it, and publish
it. (I'll be in Beijing, among other cities, and, if needed, I'll visit
the authorities in Ningbo or whatever city which houses the headquarters
of MJ in China; Ningpo seems logical, since it is MJ's birthplace.) I
write this to seek your views: (1) whether it is worthwhile to publish
such a volume in English, (2) whether there are rule changes since their
initial promulgation for the 2002 event, and (3) persons to contact in
China. Other comments are, of course, welcome. Thanks. David Li

 

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"David H Li" <davidli@erols.com> wrote...
> In the last couple of days, I received three inquiries concerning the
> subject captioned. Yesterday, I also received a journal from the Japanese
> MJ Museum (which cosponsored the inaugural (2002) World MJ Competition,
> initially scheduled for Ningbo but shifted to Tokyo). ...the thought
> occurred to me that, perhaps, I should dust off the manuscript I did in
> honor of the inaugural competition (but chose not to publish it then),
> update it, and publish it. ...(1) whether it is worthwhile to publish
> such a volume in English,

If you mean a straight translation of the CMCR book, yes. We badly need a
good English translation of the original 1998 work.

> (2) whether there are rule changes since their initial promulgation for
> the 2002 event, and

There is a followup book (as listed in FAQ 3 on my site): CHINESE MAHJONG
CONTEST RULES: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. Publisher: People's Sports Publishing
House, 2002. ISBN ISBN 7-80602-511-1. Followup book to CMCR - goes into
depth about rules that hadn't been given in the first book. Book is entirely
in Chinese. Extremely hard to obtain outside of China. I call this book
"CMCR2" for short.

> (3) persons to contact in China.

I think I already emailed some names and contact info to you before last
year's Hong Kong event? If I did not, email me and I'll send it to you by
email.

Tom

--

Tom Sloper - Game Designer, Producer, Consultant
- The Mah-Jongg FAQs. Information and bulletin boards about the game of
mah-jongg. http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq.html

 

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"Tom Sloper" <tomsterSPAM@sloperamaSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:weOdndKHPIuaLtHfRVn-qg@comcast.com...
> "David H Li" <davidli@erols.com> wrote...
>> In the last couple of days, I received three inquiries concerning the
>> subject captioned. Yesterday, I also received a journal from the
>> Japanese MJ Museum (which cosponsored the inaugural (2002) World MJ
>> Competition, initially scheduled for Ningbo but shifted to Tokyo).
>> ...the thought occurred to me that, perhaps, I should dust off the
>> manuscript I did in honor of the inaugural competition (but chose not to
>> publish it then), update it, and publish it. ...(1) whether it is
>> worthwhile to publish such a volume in English,
>
> If you mean a straight translation of the CMCR book, yes. We badly need a
> good English translation of the original 1998 work.

Hi Davie,

The short answer is: YES.

More detailed answer: A full translation of the rules is definitely a good
idea but it better be a translation that is approved by the General
Administration Of Sport (http://www.sport.gov.cn/), the original owner and
rightful administrator of the work. If you cannot seek or obtain approval
then tell the readers clearly and honestly that it is NOT an official rule
set. It's OK to be authentic but unofficial, as long as readers are informed
clearly and honestly.

>
>> (2) whether there are rule changes since their initial promulgation for
>> the 2002 event, and
>
> There is a followup book (as listed in FAQ 3 on my site): CHINESE MAHJONG
> CONTEST RULES: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. Publisher: People's Sports
> Publishing House, 2002. ISBN ISBN 7-80602-511-1. Followup book to CMCR -
> goes into depth about rules that hadn't been given in the first book. Book
> is entirely in Chinese. Extremely hard to obtain outside of China. I call
> this book "CMCR2" for short.

I am not sure if the "CMCRQ&A" (I believe this is a more appropriate name
for the Q&A booklet mentioned by Tom) shall mean any changes to the original
CMCR. I believe it is not. May be Tom could help tell us about the true
status of this booklet. Does it carry the wording "Approved by General
Administration Of Sport" or any wording that's similar? This wording is on
the face of the original CMCR book (in white words and green background,
immediately underneath the book title).

However, if you should consider any Q&A or other publications to be official
changes to the original rules, that would be something that's up to you to
decide.

>
>> (3) persons to contact in China.
>
> I think I already emailed some names and contact info to you before last
> year's Hong Kong event? If I did not, email me and I'll send it to you by
> email.

If you plan to seek and obtain approval from author/owner/administrator of
the original work, I would suggest you contact the General Administration Of
Sport office. Contacting people other than from this office may certainly
serve any other purposes.

Good luck!

--
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Hi friends


On 01-04-2005 03:19, in article 7ZKdnZUtKOvwPdHfRVn-oA@rcn.net, "David H Li"
<davidli@erols.com> wrote:


> months' time, I shall be in China again. Given the recent activity in
> the first two sentences above, the thought occurred to me that, perhaps,
> I should dust off the manuscript I did in honor of the inaugural
> competition (but chose not to publish it then), update it, and publish
> it. (I'll be in Beijing, among other cities, and, if needed, I'll visit
> the authorities in Ningbo or whatever city which houses the headquarters
> of MJ in China; Ningpo seems logical, since it is MJ's birthplace.) I
> write this to seek your views: (1) whether it is worthwhile to publish
> such a volume in English, (2) whether there are rule changes since their
> initial promulgation for the 2002 event, and (3) persons to contact in
> China. Other comments are, of course, welcome. Thanks. David Li


Any publication is welcome, but the official booklet is being translated
right now, on behalf of the Open European Mahjong Championship. The
organization of the China Majiang Championship has formed a team to
translate the China Majiang International Standard Rule and Detailed
Explanation for the ³Rules² of Majiang Championship. They expect the project
to be ready this month.
So, if Mr. David H Li considers to dust of his manuscript, I think it would
be wise contacting the China Majiang Championship first.

Greetz




|
|Martin Rep
|The Independent Internet Mahjong Newspaper
|Mahjong News:
|www.mahjongnews.com
|The Dutch Championship Riichi Mahjong:
|www.riichi.tk
|The Golden Dragon Hong Kong Mahjong Club:
|www.gouden-draak.nl
|Mahjongpagina:
|http://mahjong.pagina.nl

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

"David H Li" <davidli@erols.com> wrote in message
news:-s2dndolo76wbNDfRVn-gg@rcn.net...

[...]

> It is with this background that I approached my "manuscript" on the
> international MJ rules, in 2002. By then, the Japan MJ Museum had come up
> with an English translation of the official IMJ rules -- I read it; its
> being of the "straight" translation variety inspired me to do mine.

[...]

Thanks David for the details. Just some clarifications here though:

- the rule set under your original reference is supposed to be Chinese
Mahjong Contest Rules (or "CMCR" for short), a rule set that was approved by
the Sports Commission of China (currently named General Administration of
Sport) and published in 1998.

- IMJ and INTERNATIONAL MAHJONG are registered trademarks in Canada. There
is an official rule set under these trademarks called INTERNATIONAL MAHJONG
RULES ("IMJ Rules" for short). Details available at www.iMahjong.com.

- IMJ and IMJ Rules have no connection with CMCR or with any translated work
related to CMCR. CMCR or any work related to or describing it shall not be
mixed up with IMJ and IMJ Rules.

I hope these clarifications would be helpful in your proposed publication.

--
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

"David H Li" <davidli@erols.com> wrote

> My attempt is not a translation, per se, but an interpretation, with ample
> examples and explanations, on the reasoning behind various scoring issues.

Sounds fine.

> Early on in this newsgroup, there were posts discussing copyright issues
> on these IMJ rules.

Depending how early you mean... as I recall, the first few posts after
creation of the newsgroup were about Cofa's trademarked IMJ rules.

> My view on this is: if rules are to be used in international competition,
> these rules must necessarily be in the public domain. Copyright
> protection of examples or illustrations is less clear, but one can use
> other illustrations to clarify official rules (assuming, of course, these
> rules are in the public domain)

I'm not a lawyer. But as long as you write the rules in your own words and
make your own examples and illustrations, you are not violating anybody's
copyright. That said, it would be interesting to see a Chinese organization
initiate a lawsuit for copyright infringement in a Chinese court. (The land
where copyright infringement as a business model is a fact of everyday
life.)

Looking forward to reading it. - Tom

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Thanks, Cofa, for your comments. Clearly, CMCR are what I had in mind
and what I was discussing in this newsgroup; I was using the three
letters IMJ for convenience. In the future, these three letters, unless
they refer to your trademark, will not be used to refer to CMCR. On the
other hand, it must be stated that when certain national rules are used
internationally, they are no longer national, but international, and
therefore, using these words (that is, international, Mahjong, as
opposed to letters) in a different combination cannot be prevented nor
would that constitute an infringement. On this point, you might know
that a book title cannot be copyrighted. One can write a book on, say,
the Secret Life of Thomas Jefferson; another person can write a
different book using the same title and it would be perfectly ok. David Li

 

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In article <heKdncDVGZiwj83fRVn-vw@rcn.net>,
David H Li <davidli@erols.com> wrote:
>that a book title cannot be copyrighted. One can write a book on, say,
>the Secret Life of Thomas Jefferson; another person can write a
>different book using the same title and it would be perfectly ok. David Li

However, if you write a book called "Mickey Mouse", you are unlikely
to prevail against the ensuing legal onslaught from the Disney
Corporation. Trademarks are not copyright.

Though I agree that it is unlikely that many jurisdictions would
consider "International Mah-Jong" protected in a book title, until
such time as Cofa has managed to acquire widespread international
recognition beyond the bounds of this newsgroup!

 

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"Julian Bradfield" <jcb@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d2p5nk$617$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> In article <heKdncDVGZiwj83fRVn-vw@rcn.net>,
> David H Li <davidli@erols.com> wrote:
>>that a book title cannot be copyrighted. One can write a book on, say,
>>the Secret Life of Thomas Jefferson; another person can write a
>>different book using the same title and it would be perfectly ok. David
>>Li
>
> However, if you write a book called "Mickey Mouse", you are unlikely
> to prevail against the ensuing legal onslaught from the Disney
> Corporation. Trademarks are not copyright.
>
> Though I agree that it is unlikely that many jurisdictions would
> consider "International Mah-Jong" protected in a book title, until
> such time as Cofa has managed to acquire widespread international
> recognition beyond the bounds of this newsgroup!
>

I am not a lawyer, but I agree with the "principles" Julian has produced:

A book with the title "Mickey Mouse" could be an infringement unless
permission to use the trademark is sought.

A book with the title "The History Of Mickey Mouse" may not be an
infringement of the trademark "Mickey Mouse".

On the other hand, if IMJ is known to someone as a trademark, using IMJ to
describe other things could be misleading.

--
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (More info?)

Cofa Tsui wrote:

>On the other hand, if IMJ is known to someone as a trademark, using IMJ to
>describe other things could be misleading.
>
>
Well said. As I noted before, I do not plan to use these three letters
again. David Li