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Why are so many wargamers losers with no social skills?

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Anonymous
May 9, 2004 9:48:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
social skills?

These days, I largely confine myself to painting and setting up
miniature battlefields. I used to play games, but seldom do so any
more.

Why? Take a trip to the local shop that has a big gaming room in the
back on a weekend. You'll hear all sorts of profanity and demeaning
talk about women, nitpicking arguments that go on and on, and many of
the participants need hygiene lessons. I tend just to go in quickly,
look over what is new, get what I need and leave. I don't want to be
around these people, and I never take my wife or my young son into the
place, although I'd like for him to share my hobby interests as he
grows older. I see the same rude, ignorant, slobs at shows, too.
They give the hobby a bad name.

Thankfully there is eBay and ordering online, so one can avoid such an
atmosphere. But if I need just some paint and brushes to finish up a
project, that is where I need to go.

I can really see why people in the hobby are viewed the way they are
by the public at large. Too bad, because this should be a fun hobby.
People who have no lives outside their hobbies who are deadly serious
about everything and who are completely lacking in social skills would
really do us and themselves a favor by getting out in the world a bit
more. This also extends to the very juvenile bickering I see in this
newsgroup.

Off the soapbox for now.
May 9, 2004 9:48:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Volthoom" <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com...
> I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> social skills?

Oh look. A Bob Jones sockpuppet!

--Ty
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 9:48:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote in message news:<109stuj713oo844@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Volthoom" <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com...
> > I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> > social skills?
>
> Oh look. A Bob Jones sockpuppet!
>
> --Ty

BJ: Sorry, Ty. Not my note...If you look at the expanded header, it
appears to be from the West Coast (PDT). In any case, I have always
thought that wargamers directly reflect the general public-for better
or worse. No smarter-no dumber, no more sophisticated, nor declasse.
I also firmly believe in the 80/20 rule when applied to the hobby
regarding most any characteristic.

The hobby may have a slightly more white, middle-class, fantasy
Republican, goofy adolescent anglo-saxon male streak than the general
public, but not to any great extent. There are some very bright
people in the hobby, including yourself, whose worst fault may be a
rather narrow experential basis for their beliefs. In it's worst
form-amusing-never of more serious import. They play with toy
soldiers after all, never the real thing such as the neocons do.

BJ
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 10:02:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

> You'll hear all sorts of profanity and demeaning
>talk about women,

I've never really heard this at any of the stores I visit. The occassional
cuss word, usually following dropping something, but nothing pervasive.

The nitpicking arguements sort of depend. If it is about rules, I have no love
of it. If it is about some obscure factoid regarding a battle, or weapon
performance, etc., I rather enjoy some of those for thier own sake.

>and many of
>the participants need hygiene lessons.

I almost always only found this at conventions where some fiolks may not have a
room. There are always a few exceptions, but I've never noticed anything worse
than the general population.

>People who have no lives outside their hobbies who are deadly serious
>about everything

Hmmm, I've never had a problem with a person being serious about things. Of
course, I've also never met anyone who is able to be serious 100% of the time.

>This also extends to the very juvenile bickering I see in this
>newsgroup.

Please clairify the difference between "juvenile bickering" and an airing of
differences? Certainly many of the OT posts I have followed have been little
more than WWI meets the usenet (nod to Ty for the first reference to this
idea). But many of them have their lighter moments, and sometimes some good
points are raised or information exchanged (not often maybe, but it happens).
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 11:32:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Guess you are just mixing with the wrong sort of players.

--
Justin Taylor
justin@hellou2.fsnet.co.uk
May 10, 2004 1:59:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Mike Hillsgrove" <mikeah@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:109thsfll2rss77@corp.supernews.com...

> > Why? Take a trip to the local shop that has a big gaming room in the
> > back on a weekend. You'll hear all sorts of profanity and demeaning
> > talk about women,
>
> Because perhaps most of us are MEN. Males.

Good point. You know, I almost replied with a comment that I hear far worse
on hunting trips and at poker games. Perhaps it's just in the nature of guys
to be crude -- especially when hanging out with other guys.

--Ty
May 10, 2004 2:26:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Bob Jones" <highwiremedia@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> In it's worst
> form-amusing-never of more serious import. They play with toy
> soldiers after all, never the real thing such as the neocons do.

Invitation still declined -- but nice try.

--Ty
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 4:25:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

> I am a political conservative.

So.

> I am quite happliy married to an intelligent woman whose company I
> enjoy. You appear to have serious issues with regard to women.

No issues at all. I'm just not stupid enough to think that they are the
"same as". I find them quite useful at times.

> About your other comments, I never suggested that every other person
> in the hobby was somehow inferior to me or fit the description I
> provided. I said that many, but not all, people in the hobby were not
> the type I care to spend free time with. You appear to be someone I
> would not want to spend an afternoon with.

That is precisely what you said. Quite directly in fact. I don't carry your
picture around in my wallet either.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 4:25:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Volthoom made some observations and it seems that now he is a target because
others have not necessarily observed the same things about the hobby.. or at
least they do not see things the same way. Well, I have to say that I have made
the same observations Volthoom did so I am going to weigh in on this topic.

I game with a great group of guys, professionals and blue collar, all with a
love of military history and miniatures and a willingness to discuss those
topics as well as other topics of the day. I know of a couple of other similiar
groups within a few miles of ours and we regularly have guys visiting each
others games. That said there are a lot of people in this hobby, more than the
percentage of the general population who need a lesson in personal hygeine,
manners, interpersonal skills and simple respect. That is to be expected in a
hobby based forum, especially one that allows its participants to escape
reality and assume the persona of someone else... be it an Italian Field
Marshall or a Colonel in the Colonial Militia. Visit any convention, sponsored
by any entity within the historical miniatures sphere, and you will see that
the biggest drawback to attracting more people to the hobby is not the games or
the miniatures or the rules... it is some of the people.

I love war gaming but lets be honest about who and what the hobby consists of.

My .02 worth.
Bill
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 4:25:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Sadly, I can attest to some of the comments made about the "guys"
hanging out in a hobby shop, shooting their mouths off loudly, and in
profanities. While a few of these are older gamers who you'd think
would know better, most are younger males just out of high school or in
college. I'd hate to stereotype them, but more often than not they are
Evil Empire players. I've heard, and seen them offend and drive other
younger and adult gamers, as well as visiting guests, shoppers and
parents. I'm always surprised that a shop would tolerate this behavior.

Frankly I blame this on the shop owner(s). For every professionally
run, and controlled environment store, there seems to be one that is
just short of being a gang hang out (if you can assume that these
loudmouths appear threatening). If I can admit to guessing, it would
appear to me that historical gaming has fewer of these people than does
science fiction gaming.

While I rarely see such types at the local cons I attend, I will admit
that I attend smaller historical ones in the upper mid west where such
behavior would not be accepted, and people are asked to leave at times.
Most of the gamers I know are interested in the hobby, enjoy gaming for
gaming sake and treat others with respect.

Now, as to the overweight part...

Dan

WARGAMING wrote:

>Volthoom made some observations and it seems that now he is a target because
>others have not necessarily observed the same things about the hobby.. or at
>least they do not see things the same way. Well, I have to say that I have made
>the same observations Volthoom did so I am going to weigh in on this topic.
>
>I game with a great group of guys, professionals and blue collar, all with a
>love of military history and miniatures and a willingness to discuss those
>topics as well as other topics of the day. I know of a couple of other similiar
>groups within a few miles of ours and we regularly have guys visiting each
>others games. That said there are a lot of people in this hobby, more than the
>percentage of the general population who need a lesson in personal hygeine,
>manners, interpersonal skills and simple respect. That is to be expected in a
>hobby based forum, especially one that allows its participants to escape
>reality and assume the persona of someone else... be it an Italian Field
>Marshall or a Colonel in the Colonial Militia. Visit any convention, sponsored
>by any entity within the historical miniatures sphere, and you will see that
>the biggest drawback to attracting more people to the hobby is not the games or
>the miniatures or the rules... it is some of the people.
>
>I love war gaming but lets be honest about who and what the hobby consists of.
>
>My .02 worth.
>Bill
>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 5:45:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Justin Taylor" <justint@hellou2.*takethisout*fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c7lth1$nud$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Guess you are just mixing with the wrong sort of players.


Quite.
cheers,
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 5:57:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On 9 May 2004 17:08:51 -0700, highwiremedia@earthlink.net (Bob Jones)
wrote:

>BJ: Sorry, Ty. Not my note...If you look at the expanded header, it
>appears to be from the West Coast (PDT).

No - posted from Dear Old Dixie.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 5:58:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On 10 May 2004 00:25:57 GMT, wargaming@aol.com (WARGAMING) wrote:

>Volthoom made some observations and it seems that now he is a target because
>others have not necessarily observed the same things about the hobby.. or at
>least they do not see things the same way. Well, I have to say that I have made
>the same observations Volthoom did so I am going to weigh in on this topic.
>
>I game with a great group of guys, professionals and blue collar, all with a
>love of military history and miniatures and a willingness to discuss those
>topics as well as other topics of the day. I know of a couple of other similiar
>groups within a few miles of ours and we regularly have guys visiting each
>others games. That said there are a lot of people in this hobby, more than the
>percentage of the general population who need a lesson in personal hygeine,
>manners, interpersonal skills and simple respect. That is to be expected in a
>hobby based forum, especially one that allows its participants to escape
>reality and assume the persona of someone else... be it an Italian Field
>Marshall or a Colonel in the Colonial Militia. Visit any convention, sponsored
>by any entity within the historical miniatures sphere, and you will see that
>the biggest drawback to attracting more people to the hobby is not the games or
>the miniatures or the rules... it is some of the people.
>
>I love war gaming but lets be honest about who and what the hobby consists of.
>
>My .02 worth.
>Bill

You understand exactly what I am talking about and make severall good
points.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 6:20:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On 09 May 2004 18:02:09 GMT, samvanga@aol.com (SamVanga) wrote:

>Please clairify the difference between "juvenile bickering" and an airing of
>differences?

When airing of differences degenerates into name-calling and
equivalent grade school playground "wit."
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 6:23:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Sun, 9 May 2004 13:30:55 -0500, "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote:

>"Volthoom" <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com...
>> I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
>> social skills?
>
>Oh look. A Bob Jones sockpuppet!

No, wrong.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 6:23:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Sun, 9 May 2004 19:32:53 +0100, "Justin Taylor"
<justint@hellou2.*takethisout*fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Guess you are just mixing with the wrong sort of players.

Certainly not all of the people in the hobby I run into are like what
I described. It is just that a good many of them (I won't speculate
percentage-wise, since one tends to notice the loud and obnoxious, but
it is a large percentage) are. Perhaps it is different on your side of
the Atlantic. I don't know how many yobbish wargamers you have over
there.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 6:28:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Sun, 9 May 2004 20:19:27 -0400, "Mike Hillsgrove"
<mikeah@cablespeed.com> wrote:

>Define Loser. Is a loser someone YOU don't like, someone who doesn't
>measure up to YOUR standards? What ARE your standards? And just what gives
>you the right to set up standards that all of us - the great unwashed - must
>be measured by?

Hit a nerve, did I?
I never suggested that I could establish standards for the rest of the
world.
However, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect simple courtesy
and civility from other people.
I don't care to be around people who have made it through puberty and
still think that burping and farting are the height of hilarity, or
who routinely refer to all women as bitches, or who stink.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 6:28:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

> I never suggested that I could establish standards for the rest of the
> world.

Which in fact you have.

> I don't care to be around people who have made it through puberty and
> still think that burping and farting are the height of hilarity, or
> who routinely refer to all women as bitches, or who stink.

ibid.

Find a different hobby. You will find that nothing changes.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 7:04:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Ty startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of wisdom

> Good point. You know, I almost replied with a comment that I hear far
> worse on hunting trips and at poker games. Perhaps it's just in the
> nature of guys to be crude -- especially when hanging out with other
> guys.

In my experience a group of women can be far cruder with no men about.

--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
May 10, 2004 7:04:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94E59947ACA5Ersingers@IP-Hidden...
> Ty startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of wisdom
>
> > Good point. You know, I almost replied with a comment that I hear far
> > worse on hunting trips and at poker games. Perhaps it's just in the
> > nature of guys to be crude -- especially when hanging out with other
> > guys.
>
> In my experience a group of women can be far cruder with no men about.

Maybe so. I don't have much experience secretly observing groups of women --
my loss, probably -- so I wouldn't know. But my experience with all male
groups is that profanity, off-color jokes and general political
incorrectness are pretty common and not particularly concentrated among
wargamers.

--Ty
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 7:29:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Sun, 09 May 2004 21:08:07 -0500, "Dan D. Cyr" <dancyr@execpc.com>
wrote:

>Frankly I blame this on the shop owner(s). For every professionally
>run, and controlled environment store, there seems to be one that is
>just short of being a gang hang out (if you can assume that these
>loudmouths appear threatening). If I can admit to guessing, it would
>appear to me that historical gaming has fewer of these people than does
>science fiction gaming.

Agree with the comment about the shop owners. I have made comments to
owners or employees in the past. What usually happens is that they
apologize to me but do nothing about the obnoxious people. I don't
know why the slobs can't just stay at home and be as obnoxious as they
want to be. I have two theories about that: 1) mom won't let them; 2)
they want an audience for their antics.

I do agree that the SF/fantasy end of things does have more people
like this than does historical, but we have our share.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 8:26:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:25:06 -0400, "Mike Hillsgrove"
<mikeah@cablespeed.com> wrote:

>> I am a political conservative.
>
>So.

So I don't have "liberal" ideas about women as you suggested.

>> I am quite happliy married to an intelligent woman whose company I
>> enjoy. You appear to have serious issues with regard to women.
>
>No issues at all. I'm just not stupid enough to think that they are the
>"same as". I find them quite useful at times.

Yes, I expect you are a big hit with the ladies.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 11:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

>I don't know how many yobbish wargamers you have over
>there.

Neither would I. I don't hang out with yobs.

--
Justin Taylor
justin@hellou2.fsnet.co.uk
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 12:14:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

>In my experience a group of women can be far cruder with no men about.

You ain't kidding brother. I heard more, and learned more hanging out with the
secretaries and receptionists at the law firm than with the guys who worked for
me. Some of those gals were great (actually, several of them were what I
always wanted, ladies in 'public' and -not- in bed, to borrow fromt he
Victorians). But whoa Nelly, when the talk was just among friends, I fair
blush to recall some of it.
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 12:16:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

>. I don't have much experience secretly observing groups of women

Don't do it secretly, too easy to miss the good bits. Just hang out with them
and if they like you, your education will begin. <Yee Haw!>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 12:31:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

SamVanga startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
wisdom

>>In my experience a group of women can be far cruder with no men about.
>
> You ain't kidding brother. I heard more, and learned more hanging out
> with the secretaries and receptionists at the law firm than with the
> guys who worked for me. Some of those gals were great (actually,
> several of them were what I always wanted, ladies in 'public' and
> -not- in bed, to borrow fromt he Victorians). But whoa Nelly, when
> the talk was just among friends, I fair blush to recall some of it.

Just wait until it's a group of women who've had something the size of a
melon come out between their legs while a bunch or relative strangers
watched. It seems to rob them of all sense of shame.



--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
May 10, 2004 1:51:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Volthoom <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com>...
> I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> social skills?
> These days, I largely confine myself to painting and setting up
> miniature battlefields. I used to play games, but seldom do so any
> more.
*NJH: So, you notice a problem and do nothing. Why not give those
young gentlemen the benefit of your presence? Perhaps they have no
male role model (or no good ones) in their lives, you could be the one
who, by example shows them the ropes. Light a candle.

> Why? Take a trip to the local shop that has a big gaming room in the
> back on a weekend. You'll hear all sorts of profanity and demeaning
> talk about women, nitpicking arguments that go on and on, and many of
> the participants need hygiene lessons.
*NJH: Generally speaking, not where I game. The "hygiene lessons" is
an across the board problem with all teens. Remember their bodies are
in transition from childhood to adulthood. There are bound to be some
difficulties with a change in the maintainance routine.

> I tend just to go in quickly, look over what is new, get what I need and
> leave. I don't want to be around these people, and I never take my wife or my
> young son into the place, although I'd like for him to share my hobby
> interests as he grows older. I see the same rude, ignorant, slobs at shows,
> too.
*NJH: The historical miniatures hobby is a social hobby.
Unfortunately, for you, the locals appear to be the dregs of society.
Have you considered moving to another part of the country (I note
you're from Dixie)? Move to CA, there are plenty of caring and
sensitive people there, and a ton of therapists to help you recover
from your trauma. ;-)

> They give the hobby a bad name.
*NJH: Your denunciations aren't really helping much either. Did you
try to effect a behavior change?

> Thankfully there is eBay and ordering online, so one can avoid such an
> atmosphere. But if I need just some paint and brushes to finish up a
> project, that is where I need to go.
*NJH: Go to craft shops. They'll provide pleasant conversation,
encouragement, and support. The brushes are much better and they smell
nicer (generally a brief hint of lilac). Really, the craft stores do
smell much better.

> I can really see why people in the hobby are viewed the way they are
> by the public at large.
*NJH: How do you know the manner in which the public views the hobby?
There has been no definitive study or survey. You only know how you
think the public views the hobby. You're looking through a Johari
Window, and darkly.

> Too bad, because this should be a fun hobby.
*NJH: It is. You just appear to live in a place where boorish behavior
seems endemic.

> People who have no lives outside their hobbies who are deadly serious
> about everything and who are completely lacking in social skills would
> really do us and themselves a favor by getting out in the world a bit
> more.
*NJH: You mean as opposed to those people in our hobby who move
furtively in and out of hobby stores and quickly return to their home
cloisters?

> This also extends to the very juvenile bickering I see in this newsgroup.
*NJH: Recently Mr Vanga and I have been having a go at one another.
We're expressing sincere (and vehement) differences of opinion
regarding a situation that we perceive quite differently. Thus far our
disagreement hasn't degenerated into name calling or "juvenile
bickering." We disagree and are adamant in our positions. Thus far, I
think we've been able to make our points and counterpoints w/o falling
into the abyss. Others who visit RGMH are perfectly free to ignore us
(as I suspect most already have).
Cheers
NJH
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 4:39:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On 10 May 2004 08:16:09 GMT, samvanga@aol.com (SamVanga) wrote:

>>. I don't have much experience secretly observing groups of women
>
>Don't do it secretly, too easy to miss the good bits. Just hang out with them
>and if they like you, your education will begin. <Yee Haw!>

I used to be a surgery technician, a long time ago. I worked for 5
years on the evening shift at a trauma hospital with a mostly female
OR crew.

Sam is right. :) 

Mac
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 12:25:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Dear NJH and Other Newsgroup Members:
The question should be rephrased to somthing like "Why do we wargamers reflect
some of the poorer aspects of society - and some of the best?" Fellow gamers at
the four groups of gamers I sometimes frequent are a broad spectrum of the
country's population - construction workers for the county, teachers, a
director of probation for the county, a journalist and a retired accountant to
name just a few. Add to this a couple of hospital administrators, a major in
the reserves, and a couple of students and you get the idea. I choose to be
around these guys because they are bright, capable of enjoying a game, and
offer a break from the university types with whom I work.
When we go to a convention, the larger it is the more probable it is that it
will include a proportion of society with whom we would rather not fraternize.
However, it's a free country and last time I looked there was no legal
requirement to shave or even bathe when you go to a con. It's unfortunate, but
true.
As for being losers, that's a matter of opinion, certainly. There are some
burros out there who think anyone who does anything thoughtful are "losers."
Are you a "loser" because you spend time writing, painting, working with a
computer, or taking dance class? What exactly makes the reverse of a "loser,"
the "winner?"
I think that if we had to pick and choose, most of us would opt to be around
folks with whom we could have a good laugh, who didn't smell like a pair of gym
socks or something worse, who took the time to actually know something about
the period and rules they are playing, and, most importantly, who take neither
the games or themselves, seriously.
Perhaps we need to list some positive characteristics of folks with whom we
enjoy playing a game.
Jerry
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:16:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Robert Singers <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns94E59947ACA5Ersingers@IP-Hidden:
>> Good point. You know, I almost replied with a comment that I hear far
>> worse on hunting trips and at poker games. Perhaps it's just in the
>> nature of guys to be crude -- especially when hanging out with other
>> guys.
>>
> In my experience a group of women can be far cruder with no men about.

Have you been dressing up as a woman again?

--
Stephen Weir

New Year's Resolution # 1: I will not argue with idiots on Usenet!
List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:30:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Wanna talk about bad hygiene. Just visiting any HMGS East convention on the
second day can make your nose hairs curl. Rick.
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:54:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Volthoom <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com>...
> I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> social skills?
>

Practice ?
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 2:56:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Stephen Weir startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
wisdom

> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?

Didn't work for Achilles, did it.

--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 5:08:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Robert Singers <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns94E66F492371Ersingers@IP-Hidden:
>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
>>
> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.

Is this about the Heels you had to wear?

--
Stephen Weir

New Year's Resolution # 1: I will not argue with idiots on Usenet!
List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 8:15:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Stephen Weir startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
wisdom

> Robert Singers wrote
>>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
>>>
>> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
>
> Is this about the Heels you had to wear?

One wonders why you're up so late trying to talking to men on Usenet about
cross dressing.



--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 8:15:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94E6A56F0C5B3rsingers@IP-Hidden...
> Stephen Weir startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
> wisdom
>
> > Robert Singers wrote
> >>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
> >>>
> >> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
> >
> > Is this about the Heels you had to wear?
>
> One wonders why you're up so late trying to talking to men on Usenet about
> cross dressing.
>

I think he fancies you
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 11:28:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Insane Ranter startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
wisdom

> I think he fancies you

Everyone does. And given the recent women are ok but not a patch on the
real thing sentiment expressed here, it would seem that this is the place
for it.

--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:41:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Volthoom" <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com...
> I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> social skills?

Well, you answer the question youself further down...

{snip}
> People who have no lives outside their hobbies who are deadly serious
> about everything and who are completely lacking in social skills would
> really do us and themselves a favor by getting out in the world a bit
> more.

It is the nature of hobbies that they attract a disproportionate number of
obsessive wierdos. Having said that, the proportion of obsessive wierdos in
wargaming does not seem immensely larger than those encountered in 'Real
Life' - you should try working in computing for a living!

Cheers
Martin
May 11, 2004 2:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"NJH" <djcoaltrain@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aa3d875c.0405100851.26fb189e@posting.google.com...

> *NJH: Go to craft shops. They'll provide pleasant conversation,
> encouragement, and support. The brushes are much better and they smell
> nicer (generally a brief hint of lilac). Really, the craft stores do
> smell much better.

And you can buy excellent acrylic paints in a staggering array of colors for
a fraction of what you'd pay in a wargame shop.

> > Too bad, because this should be a fun hobby.

> *NJH: It is. You just appear to live in a place where boorish behavior
> seems endemic.

Or he's generalizing from an isolated occurence.

--Ty
May 11, 2004 2:18:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94E66F492371Ersingers@IP-Hidden...
> Stephen Weir startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
> wisdom
>
> > Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
>
> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.

Nor for Odysseus.

--Ty
May 11, 2004 5:33:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Insane Ranter" <whoo@hooo.me> wrote in message news:<TA_nc.98674$cb.7151@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
> "Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94E6A56F0C5B3rsingers@IP-Hidden...
> > Stephen Weir startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
> > wisdom
> >
> > > Robert Singers wrote
> > >>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
> > >>>
> > >> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
> > >
> > > Is this about the Heels you had to wear?
> >
> > One wonders why you're up so late trying to talking to men on Usenet about
> > cross dressing.
> >
>
> I think he fancies you
*NJH: Ahhhh, Spring time in Vermont, when a young man's fancy turns to
a fancy for a young man. :-)
Cheers
NJH

BTW - I feel so guilty for posting this, but.. Dang It! I'm so weak.
;-)
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 1:58:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Robert Singers <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns94E6A56F0C5B3rsingers@IP-Hidden:
>>> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
>>>
>> Is this about the Heels you had to wear?
>>
> One wonders why you're up so late trying to talking to men on Usenet
> about cross dressing.

I generally tend to be the nocturnal type, and you started the cross-
dressing talk.

--
Stephen Weir

New Year's Resolution # 1: I will not argue with idiots on Usenet!
List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 1:59:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Insane Ranter" <whoo@hooo.me> wrote in
news:TA_nc.98674$cb.7151@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
>>> Is this about the Heels you had to wear?
>>>
>> One wonders why you're up so late trying to talking to men on Usenet
>> about cross dressing.
>>
> I think he fancies you

It's the serial killer look.....gets me every time.

--
Stephen Weir

New Year's Resolution # 1: I will not argue with idiots on Usenet!
List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 2:04:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote in
news:10a1rofr60ksf41@corp.supernews.com:
>>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
>>>
>> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
>>
> Nor for Odysseus.

Stop trying to drag history into this conversation.

--
Stephen Weir

New Year's Resolution # 1: I will not argue with idiots on Usenet!
List of Games for Sale - http://www.glipe.free-online.co.uk
Midgard UK PBM - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/midgard_uk_pbm/
Current eBay Auctions - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1F521555
ICQ # 11472386
May 12, 2004 2:19:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Steve Burt" <steve.burt@spamfree.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:<409f4cf1$0$25324$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>...
> > ......
> What a disgusting attitude towards half the human race.
*NJH: Which half? ;-)
Cheers
NJH
May 12, 2004 2:34:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Stephen Weir <sweir@sweir.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns94E6EAB5D1212clipclop@212.159.13.1>...
> "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote in
> news:10a1rofr60ksf41@corp.supernews.com:
> >>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
> >>>
> >> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
> >>
> > Nor for Odysseus.
>
> Stop trying to drag history into this conversation.
*NJH: Well....It's not actually history, but it is historical fiction,
and it was written a long, long time ago in a country far, far away.
That is was written is an historical fact. Of course when Shakespeare
wrote about it (Troilus and Cressida) Achilles manages to survive.
However, there is the hint of history and sometimes that all we get in
these threads.
Cheers
NJH
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 8:04:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Martin Rapier" <m.rapier@shef.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<c7q3kf$ob5$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>...
> "Volthoom" <volthoom2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:t4rs905j0eivmtbpt6ncroa72o8srdk5i8@4ax.com...
> > I'll repeat the topic - why are so many wargamers losers with no
> > social skills?
>
> Well, you answer the question youself further down...
>
> {snip}
> > People who have no lives outside their hobbies who are deadly serious
> > about everything and who are completely lacking in social skills would
> > really do us and themselves a favor by getting out in the world a bit
> > more.
>
> It is the nature of hobbies that they attract a disproportionate number of
> obsessive wierdos. Having said that, the proportion of obsessive wierdos in
> wargaming does not seem immensely larger than those encountered in 'Real
> Life' - you should try working in computing for a living!
>
> Cheers
> Martin


Are we really any worse than those who are obsessive about normal
things like cars, football and the like?

I think not.

yes we attract a few freaks and geeks, i'm sure any other interest
also does. Actualy i KNOW other interests do. But wargaming has
several sub interests, the history buff (History Today, Thats you that
is...), the millitary hardware nut (enthuses about the merits of this
or that ww2 German hardware), the painting crazy ( sorry that colour
rouge is just the wrong shade for that regiment), the 'competive
player' (who must win, whatever), the miniature collector (who must
have that obscure figure!). Come on, we all recognise them in others
(sometimes ourselves) but with soo many side and 'sub cults' in our
community is it any wonder that we seem to have in excess of our 'fair
share'.

me, I may have more that a reasonable amount of anoraks but i'm just
here to drink beer, play games, and talk with my mates about something
other than Soap / Sports / Cars / Women i can never meet!

JP ;) 

*note, take nothing i say/type too seriously*
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 10:57:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"NJH" <djcoaltrain@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aa3d875c.0405112134.65da435a@posting.google.com...
> Stephen Weir <sweir@sweir.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<Xns94E6EAB5D1212clipclop@212.159.13.1>...
> > "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote in
> > news:10a1rofr60ksf41@corp.supernews.com:
> > >>> Have you been dressing up as a woman again?
> > >>>
> > >> Didn't work for Achilles, did it.
> > >>
> > > Nor for Odysseus.
> >
> > Stop trying to drag history into this conversation.
> *NJH: Well....It's not actually history, but it is historical fiction,
> and it was written a long, long time ago in a country far, far away.
> That is was written is an historical fact. Of course when Shakespeare
> wrote about it (Troilus and Cressida) Achilles manages to survive.
> However, there is the hint of history and sometimes that all we get in
> these threads.
> Cheers
> NJH

I missed the point ? Didn't Odysseus dress up as a Horse?

Joseph
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 2:51:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

On Tue, 11 May 2004 10:17:50 -0500, "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@tyler.net> wrote:

>"NJH" <djcoaltrain@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:aa3d875c.0405100851.26fb189e@posting.google.com...
>
>> *NJH: Go to craft shops. They'll provide pleasant conversation,
>> encouragement, and support. The brushes are much better and they smell
>> nicer (generally a brief hint of lilac). Really, the craft stores do
>> smell much better.
>
>And you can buy excellent acrylic paints in a staggering array of colors for
>a fraction of what you'd pay in a wargame shop.
>
>> > Too bad, because this should be a fun hobby.
>
>> *NJH: It is. You just appear to live in a place where boorish behavior
>> seems endemic.
>
>Or he's generalizing from an isolated occurence.
>
>--Ty
>
The problem is figuring out if Rose of Sharon or Dusty Rose is the
proper color for the facings of the Eleventythird Ruritanian Hussars.

I do buy some of my paints at craft shops. I always buy the paint I
use on my bases at craft shops. The paints tend to be a little
thicker, and you can coat the base and then flock it straight onto the
paint.

Now for terrain projects, I got a little of the green I used for bases
and painted it on a piece of white cardstock. Then I had a Home Depot
do a computer color match and got a quart of it. I still have that
quart, many projects later.

Mac
May 13, 2004 10:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"William McHarg" <wmcharg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

> Now for terrain projects, I got a little of the green I used for bases
> and painted it on a piece of white cardstock. Then I had a Home Depot
> do a computer color match and got a quart of it. I still have that
> quart, many projects later.

Now that's a pretty good idea. Thanks.

--Ty
!