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WWII Rules the ultimate pointless review :-)

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Anonymous
May 13, 2004 9:09:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi all

Having injured my leg (trying to act the young lad) I am stuck at home and
killing time and also having just purchased my umpteenth set of WWII wargame
rules (Blitzkrieg Commander) I thought I would indulge myself in a personal
mini-review of the WWII rules sets I own for the delectation (or otherwise)
of list members. Some hoary old sets (ahh the nostalgia) and several new
ones with a brave few in between.
I have conducted review in distinctly unscientific fashion with bit of
waffle and overall grading from A to E (a being best) I also give them what
I call the Tiger Test (TT) as the first thing I usually look at in any set
is how vunerable/tough a Tiger 1 is vs Shermans/T34 within the game system
(ie how hard or easy to brew up and at what ranges) all this is of course
totally a personal view...................

Blitzkrieg Commander - brand new,read thru once but not played as yet,
apparently based in part on some Fantasy (hiss boo) set these are a very
nicely produced set. Very much in the trend of playable systems with easy to
learn mechanisms and a good deal of abstractions. Look to give a good fast
moving game and will be trying them out soon.
Seem best suited to 6m/10mm and default 1 base = Plat/Troop Comes with built
in army lists and scn generator and point system. Webpage/forum
Grade : B TT : B

Spearhead - one of my fav sets of rules (that bloke Conliffe can sure write
innovative rulesets or what !?) allowing loads of kit on tabletop without
bogging down. Nice historical feel to games (although Huns are favoured a
tad), good tactical options abound. Nice touches such as target priorities
and suchlike. Additional scn booklets available several scns included.Best
for 6mm/10mm with 15mm at a stretch. 1 base = 1 Platoon. Webpage/forum
Grade : A TT : B

Crossfire - another Conliffe set with some very radical ideas. Superb for
Inf combat giving a real 'feel' to actions less successful for AFVs. No set
turn sequence with constantly changing iniatiative, system for LOS/Firing
takes bit of getting used to and requires lots of terrain (numerous small
items). Includes basic army lists and scn generator. Additional Scn booklet
adds some nice rules. Best for 15mm+ as games quite petit. 1 base = 1
section/squad.
Webpage/forum
Grade : B TT : C

Battle ! Practical Wargaming - venerable set by late great Charles Grant one
of my first ever sets, great read and hardback too ! antiquated style but
always gave good games. No points system,no scn generators but does include
couple of scns. Complex (or rather convoluted) systems in some respects
simplistic in others. Definately a collectors item nowadays. Firmly designed
for 20mm+ (or 1/76th 1/72nd to use its terminology) although most vehicles
in photos were old Roco Mini-Tanks which were (are ?) closer to 15mm scale.
Inf/Afvs are individuals. Simultaneous turns seem odd now.
Grade : C TT : C

World War II Wargaming Airfix Guide No 15 - an early Bruce Quarrie set with
upcoming trend (at that time) for multiple charts with multiple modifers for
most aspects of the game. Good deal of info in a slim volume. Slow playing
with several inconsistancies especially in area of gun ratings. Not a set I
used much. Units are individuals. Designed for 20mm (ie Airfix 'midgies').
No scns but does include points system another simultaneous turn set.
Grade : D TT : D

Battles With Model Tanks - another old hardback book with fairly generic set
of simplistic Tank combat rules (Inf negelected) by Don Featherstone/Keith
Robinson. General in scope (covers 1917 to late 1970s) but with several
scns. Nice read but not much as ruleset. Designed mainly for 20mm and with
units as individuals in the main.
Grade : D TT : D

Tank Battles In Miniature 1 A Wargamers guide to Western Desert Campaign
1941-42 -Another Featherstone tome in hardback. Super read especially the
background stuff and since Don actually fought in the theatre it all has
that ring of truth. Quite complex rules included with some odd stuff like
the 'Movement Board' with little paper tanks on pins to simulate problems of
movement in desert. Designed with 6mm in mind but with individual Afvs.
Grade : C TT : B

Tank Battles etc 3 A guide to NW European Campaign - another Quarrie set,
another hardback. Another superb read with lots of info and flavour. Rules
are essentially an update of the Airfix guide stuff. Focus is on Tank combat
with 6mm in mind, Inf rules are included but are tad cumbersome (too much
bookeeping) and the Air-Ground rules (by Mike Spick) are a game unto
themselves. Simultaneous turns caused a lot of problems playing this
especially as one had to keep track of ammo useage and Rof combined with
varying turret speeds (all seemed rather intricate for 6mm).
Grade : C TT : B

World War II Rules (simplified) - where did I get these ? a Bath Wargame
Society set very basic in outlook (being a phamplet !) which I never
actually used but which surprisingly covered most aspects.
Grade : D TT : D

Tactical Commander - A Tabletop Games set (I think there are updated
versions to my original) and very much in early 1980s mould (ie lots of
detail lots of charts modifiers etc) designed for 20mm skirmish games.
Another simultaneous type (although this is not really defined but assumed).
Inf combat well covered and reasonably playable but I found the Tank combat
always seemed to need a score of 6 to achieve hit vs any target. Some
oddities in Gun/Armour relationshpis did not help. Individual scale.
Grade : C TT : D

Combined Arms WWII Infantry-Armour Actions - another TTG set designed for
6mm scale primarily. Again heavy on stats/charts. This was a set I used for
a long time and which I tweaked heavily. Slow playing due to large amounts
of chart/modifier useage which seemed so accurate at the time but with
hindsight seems so needless. Author (Ian Shaw) also done some seperate army
lists (which covered this set plus WRG and Newbury). AFVs were individuals
with Inf grouped as Section bases.
Grade : C (more like A when I was using them) TT : B

Armoured Warfare for 1/200th scale - set produced by Skytrex to accompany
their 10mm range. Units were indidviduals. Some rather different rules
(first use I recall of multiple dice for MGs etc in place of multiple
modifiers) especially the ordinance firing system wherein firer had to
predict the range in mm to target and depending how far out guess was this
modified strike values. Designed for 10mm but easily useable for larger
scales.
Grade : C TT : B

Firefly WWII 1/300th & 1/200th Battlegroup Actions - set by Bruce Rea
Taylor. Again another 1980s set heavy on charts/modifiers. Was direct rival
to WRG sets with more depth/detail. Included several army lists including
historical units. Again a slow playing set due to number of charts etc I
neglected it in favour of Combined Arms but if I recall it was a rather
popular set (at least in UK). Individual Afvs and Inf groups (rated
seperately for
individual nations/types)
Grade : C TT : B

WRG Rules for Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 - WRG set another of my first
sets. At the time a rather simple set but playable. Suffered IMHO from usual
WRG predisposistion to competition rules. Inf was generic (no bonuses for
MG42s in this) the little bases of 4 made them fiddly and annnoying. List of
manufactuers etc to rear makes for nostalgic reading. Overall a set I
maligned at time in many ways but which actually generates a better 'game'
than those I used. Primarily for 6mm (only small scale at time). Individual
Afvs and Inf groups (half-sections).
Grade : B TT : C

Micro-Warfare - another Skytrex set issued in early days of 6mm and designed
for their use. A set with very strong board wargaming influence (in fact
advocated use of hexes to play on). Simple in outlook and another set I
never actually used. Units were Platoons/Troops with some record keeping to
track casualties.
Grade : E TT : E

GI Commander 1939-45 - A US set (one of first I had seen/purchased) via
Navwar. Complex (especially the advanced rules) with lots of
charts/modifiers and odd fractional units stats (eg some Inf had hit factors
of 1.25). Boardgame influence detected but not specified. 6mm design basis
with inherent army lists. The need for fast mathmatical brain made them not
my cup of tea.
Grade : D TT : D

Command Decision (editions I, II & III) - a set designed for 20mm (all Frank
Chadwicks photos show this scale) another US set which distinctively came in
a box but good set for 6mm. Simultaneous sequence but use of order chits was
excellent and made HQs feel very important. Played this a lot but found that
(unlike Spearhead) it was suited to none too large games or turns took a lot
longer than the 15mins real-time the rules advocated. Good system of hits
related to troop grade and morale (expanded in later editions) but way too
much firing in a turn (3 possible firing phases with multiple Rof) this was
addressed in 3rd edition (units only fire in 1 phase). Whilst loving the
order chit system in someways it was too flexible as units could literally
zip across the battlefield. 1 Base = 1 Pltoon/Troop
Used to be supported with quarterly Command Post magazine. Webpage/forum
Grade : B TT : C

Cambrai to Sinai 1917-1967 Newbury Rules - another early set covering 6mm
and 20mm (parallel rules contained). Another set with convoluted systems
which I found slowed games down to a crawl and were seldom finished.
Numerous charts/modifiers. Covered all aspects of WWII. Seperate Army lists
available. Not a favourite with me this one. Individual AFVs and Inf (groups
at 6mm scale)
Grade : D TT : D

No 1 Wargames Command rules for WWII - a set for 6mm I played a lot prior to
finding Combined Arms (which had similar firing/armour system). Inf a bit of
an afterthought (rules came with 1cm square cut-out counters in lieu of
figs). Unique morale system termed IKB (I know better) wherein unit failing
morale was subject to fairly random movement which lead to some odd
situations. A campaign set was released (Sword Beach) with updated rules.
Afvs were indidviduals Inf in groups but organized at 1/3rd historical basis
(ie 1 coy eqivalent to 1 Bttn etc).
Grade : C TT : B

Berlin Or Bust - slim set designed for skirmish games. Nothing ground
breaking but nothing odd either. Another set not used (rather a few like
this in my collection !). Individual Afvs and Inf.
Grade : D TT : C

WRG Rules 1925-1950 Platoon to Battalion level - updated from original set
(published 1973) with a good deal more detail especially in realm of Command
and Control and use of Tactical Modes (I found this cumbersome). Much more
accurate than old set at sacrafice in playability. Covers all scales but
best suited to 6mm. Indidvidual Afvs Inf in groups. Includes army lists (in
rather cryptic form) and again shows its competition bent.
Grade : C TT : C

Korps Commander WWII The Road To Berlin - another BRTaylor/TTg set aimed at
playing higher level games (basic units being Coys) but with usual mass
charts/modifiers. Very cumbersome mechanics in many respects and slow.
Includes some nice Divisional organizations and as per Firefly a few
historical. A set I wanted to like (who doesnt want to field Corps/Division)
but found wanting.
Grade : D TT : D

World War II Infantry Action - Newbury set designed for skirmish 20mm games.
Lots of charts/modifiers with obvious emphasis on Inf. Way too much detail
for my tastes with even small games bogging down. Some generic scns and
points system.
Grade : D TT : D

Operation Warboard - my first set of WWII rules (in fact my first set of
wargame rules) firmly for 20mm games (quirk of illustrations are use of
unpainted Airfix etc figs/vehicles and chalked on roads polysthrene hills
etc). Another nice read (rules in 1970s were very much books) with lots of
background/explanation. Units are individual Afv/Inf. Simple firing rules
and Tank rules with several inconsistancies. Use of numerous plastic grids
(which one had to make oneself) the MG grid being a real beast. Great fun to
play (especially for a 12yr old) and a good grounding (along with Battle!)
in the great hobby of wargaming.........
Lots of nostalgia with this set affects grading.
Grade : A TT : C

Clash Of Armor Rules for Grand Tactical WWII - set for 6mm (could use
10/15mm) with some interesting features such as rolls to activate individual
formations (graded per Coy and more importantly by its Commander). Great way
to show difference in quality of units and yet allow reaction to enemy moves
(at cost for subsequent moves). However system was rather slow and the
combat mechanisms rather odd at times (total firepower factors divided by
target defence factor with limits to totals). Couple scn booklets available.
1 base = 1 Platoon. Had a lot of potential but never really got to grips
with rules (mainly as more playable Spearhead available)
Grade : C TT : B

Where The Iron Crosses Grow - set bought at Wargames Show (Colours at
Reading I think) designed for 15-20mm skirmish games. Another set with
nothing new but nothing bad either. Strangely for skirmish set the Inf rules
are tad underwritten (ie unclear in cases) and seemed taken from Tactical
Commander set in large part. The title and drawing of Tiger on front
probably attracted m to this set :-)
Grade : C TT : B

Rapid Fire - designed as a fast play set for 15/20mm stuff they do exactly
what they say. Definately a highly playable set nicely produced (who fails
to drool at all the colour photos of 20mm kit !?) simplistic in most
respects (especially for my tastes the Gun/Tank rules). A big following in
UK and several excellent supplements available. 1 bases = 1 platoon (not
strict scale). Such playable type rules are very much the trend in recent
years.
Webpage/forum.
Grade : B TT : C

Tiger Tiger Burning Bright - produced as set for 1/200th scale but playable
as 6mm or 15mm. Another Colours (or was it Warfare) purchase. Once again the
Inf rules are tad unintelligible to me (maybe its me or authors are assuming
too much ?) and rules are overall neither good bad or indifferent. 1 base =
individual AFV/Inf section. Another set not played.
Grade : C TT : C

Blitzspiel - slim booklet of simple rules another Show purchase. Fairly
broad armour and gun groupings and no C&C rules of note. Bit like cut-down
WRG 1973 (but why bother) certainly playable. 1 base = 1 platoon.
Grade : C TT : D

Overlord rules for the Normandy Campaign - a set designed for 10/15mm (20mm
ok) covering a finite period (June-August 1944) and location. Author Barrie
Lovell has some great ideas and produced one of my favourite rulesets (nice
balance between gameplay and level of accuracy at scale aimed for). Inf
combat system is reminiscent of Squad Leader in some ways. The morale/combat
rules seem to generate rather historical occurrences (my usual opponnent
often bemoaned how his Inexperienced US Troops basically went to ground
(Pinned) when fired upon) which to a point can lead to rather poor 'games'
(a good scn is key). AFV combat could tense but with 1" = 10 yds ground
scale even heavy Tanks are vunerable on average tabletop. Order chits are
nicely used in the game. Quite chart/modifier heavy but not overly complex
and with games of 1-2 coys plus supports quite playable. 1 base = 1 Afv or
Inf group (half sections). Comes with Coy organizations and a single scn.
Interestingly the author is now an advocate of Crossfire. Basic scns
included
and points system.
Grade : A TT : B

Grey Storm Red Steel Tactical Combat On the Eastern Front - followup set to
Overlord by Barrie Lovell and another fine set this time covering a much
greater timeframe and theatre. Really Overlord Deluxe this set retains the
basic systems of prevoius set but with numerous echancements. Order chits
are still there but Ivans must place theirs first giving Huns more
flexibility. Inf now fire not as individual groups but total firepower to
cover a gridded oval area. Tank combat has been filled out (and complicated)
greatly and several eastern Front aspects added (much more depth to fighting
in buildings and melees). Includes a nice scn generator/pints system which
usually sees the Huns well outnumered (one memorable game saw my 300pts of
Huns reduced by half whilst Ivan 300 pts was tripled !!). 1 base = 1 Afv or
Inf Group (half-section).
Grade : A TT : B

Great Battles Of WWII Volume 1 The Canadians in Europe - set from (surprise)
Canadians Wargamers Group set a Divisional level with basic stands being
Coys. Interesting concept for games with Forming Up Points and passage of
time being important. Combat system abstracted due to level played and games
are rather big overall (1 scn advocates having a rolling 15ft paper map)
Designed for 6mm. Terrain so abstracted that game plays best on boardgame
style map. Includes background on Cannuck army and several historical scns.
Grade : C TT : C

Battalions In Crisis ! Small Unit Combat in WWII - a US set (apparently a
clone of Tractics ?) for 20mm skirmish games. Lots of charts/modifiers
(including individual charts for each Afv). Tank combat was reasonably good
(if tad modifier intense) but I found Inf combat too slow for anyhting but
smallest games. Artillery grid was slow to use as it tracked individual
shells (mind you older Battle and Op Warboard also done this). Lots of
detail included but a too high a loss of playability for me. Couple of
expansion modules and I think a bi-monthly mag
Grade : C TT : B

Abteilung 15mm WWII Battle Rules - Set produced by Peter Pig (RFCM range) to
accompany their 15mm figs. Generic unit types and simplistic combat to
garner a playable game is the aim. Some nice ideas for setting up scns but
the overall system weighed too much in favour of fastplay IMHO. No hard and
fast scale but basically 1 unit = Platoon
Forum.
Grade : C TT : D

Military Operations '39-'45 - another show bought set (by Agema) with again
some interesting concepts but not radically different enough to garner much
play on my tabletop. Production values rather low (pages all photcopies) but
included army lists for most nations.
1 base = 1 platoon
Grade : C TT : C

Panzer Tactics Rules For Coy and Bttn Battles - another US set (the support
I give their economy eh ?) with an Armour combat system I enjoyed (more a
something of a throwback to 1980s rules) but an Inf system I did not (card
counters advocated again with some stacking !). 6mm design emphasis. 1 base
= 1 Afv or Inf fireteam (bit US-centric).
Grade : C TT : B

TAC : WWII Rules for Brigade Level Actions - another low production value UK
set with some nice C&C concepts but again rather tedious to play (mainly due
to number of counters required). No advantage to this set to my mind
(enfeebled as it may be) over Spearhead and not played. Several campaign scn
booklets available.
Grade : D TT : D

Cross of Iron Eastern Front Skirmish Rules - skirmish set set a very low
level (individual figs stats) in sort of RPG setting (influence of film
obvious). Several scns included. best with 20mm + (I would think great for
new 28mm stuff). Low production values (included some pasted in pages.
Another set read but unplayed. Afv rules give scant attention.
Grade : C TT : D

Take Cover !! Tactical Approach to WWII - Brittania Minis set nicely
illustrated with their figs etc. Very much a rival to Rapid Fire being of
similar ilk/scale/playability with some tweaks. Ambush rule is nicely
implemented but overall combat rules are simple/generic. Includes 2 scns and
sample lists but other army lists are available seperately. As per Rapid
Fire they are fastplay with 1 base = 1 platoon/ Inf group in sixes for
firing. Forum
Grade : C TT : C

Mein Panzer WWII Edition - original set (new updated set) from US using a
modular system (ie if you want to lay only Tanks or without Arty etc).
Combat was quite well done (not too many modifiers) although some stats
seemed off (that Tiger Test again) but Inf very brittle indeed (addressed I
believe in newer version). Complete with army lists and couple of scns. 1
base = 1 Afv or Inf squad another set that I did not use much as better sets
around. Webpage/forum
Grade : C TT : C

Tiger Tiger - Another show purchase and another low end photocopy (DTP ?)
type. Actually quite comprehensive with Armour combat system the author
seems to intend is used in Rapid Fire or similar but since its not much
different/better I cant see why. Inf rules are again bit lacking. 1 base = 1
platoon
Grade : C TT : C

Piquet II Point Of Attack II The Blitzkrieg - PK seems to be a system gamers
either love or hate I quite like it for its unpredictabliity but was insure
of how system would work for WWII (having previously tired it for Horse &
Musket). I was pleasently surprised that games play as well as they do. The
initiative/card system is of course unique (house rule I like is to roll
D12s not D20 and higher roll gets to choose to go first or second with both
players playing out their respective rolls and disregarding the 'clock').
POA gives rules stats for 3 levels of play Squad/Platoon/Battalion (with Coy
level available on web) and can use any scale of minis (I used 15mm for
squad and 6mm for others) and each level plays similarly only with few
tweaks and differing ground scales/ranges. Combat system is fairly simple in
terms of stats (usual dice type modifiers) and if using random unit
selection rolls it can lead to odd but plausible unit matchups combat
results combine damage and morale outcomes. Lack of any spotting rules
whatsoever seemed odd but within the PK context it works ok (as seeing
something does not mean you have available action points/cards to deal with
them). The coverage of several levels of play in one set is nice and offsets
initial expense of rules themselves. PK is a highly tweakable set (tweaking
seems actively encouraged in fact !). Webpage/forum
Grade : A TT : C

Battlefront WWII - yet another US set (I really ought to get a medal or
something !) by authors of Fire And Fury Acw set (and a fine set they are
too). Presentation is excellent with numerous illustrations/diagrams and a
fun set of individual unit cards (with colour (sorry color) photos. Scale is
strange in that AFVs represent 1-2 vehicles (half-platoons). Initial rules
include Huns/Yanks/Ivans late war with Brits and other timeframes in
expansions. System uses a derivative of dice modified action points for
activations and combat is simple but effective combined with morale
outcomes. Overall a nice set of rules but lack of Brits in initial release
relegated these to my read but not played much bunch. Webpage/forum
Grade : B TT : C

Panzer Marsh ! - set by North Hull Club with nice glossy presentation (a
nice bi-product of Rapid Fire is this trend in UK rules now) designed for
20mm stuff (some nice pics of Hull blokes stuff inside). Somewhat of a
throwback to older style rules with strange system of ranging sticks for
shooting etc. A set I again read but not played as they seem no advantage
over other sets I had (why then did I buy them you ask.....who knows !).
Includes late war army lists with others available seperately. Webpage
Grade : C TT : C

Megablitz Rules for Large Scale Actions - Set designed for very large level
games with bases = roughly a Bttn/Regt (including POL stuff most divisions
only need 6-10 bases !). At such a scale combat etc is very generic and
simple being mostly a case of hit points and defence points and Afvs along
the lines of Heavy-Light.Designed with 20mm in mind but any scale possible.
As with Great Battles system terrain is very abstracted at this level. Not
played this set as yet. Forum
Grade : C TT : D

Kampfgruppe Commander Clash Of Armor II - updated version of COA with
somewhat streamlined mechanics making gameplay a tad easier but still too
convulted compared to Spearhead and similar.
Grade : C TT : B

Battlegroup PanzerGrenadier WWII Fastplay Rules - new UK set by David Brown
(of Chef De Brigade Nappy rules fame) designed for 15mm (10/20mm useable)
with 1 unit = squad. Uses a derivative of DBx PIP dicing system for C&C.
Fairly simple and straightforward combat systems. 2 Scns included and scn
booklet available. A set I have read and played once but intend to give at
least another outing. Webpage/forum
Grade : B TT : C

Flames Of War the WWII Miniatures Game - another love or hate set it seems
based word has it on GW Warhammer Fantasy (boo hiss) set. Nicely produced in
NZ this time (nows its the world economy I support !) with lovely photos of
Battlefront Minis. Comes with mid-war lists and basic scn generator. Simple
mechanics based firmly on D6 with saving throws of all things (come to think
of it new Blitzkrieg Cmdr has this must be the fantasy rules influence?).
Certainly a fastplay set seems designed ala GW to bring hordes of youths
into the hobby and thats no mean feat or aim. Interaction between units is
basic leading IMHO to fairly stylised/samey games which publishers seems to
address by issuing of a large number supplements with new types of kit and
list/special rules (not a fav 'tactic' of mine). Pushed as competition set
for which it is well geared. Webpage/forum
Grade : C TT : C

Well thats it except to give honourable mention to numerous web-based
free-download sets I have tried (1943, Dic Tac, etc etc) of which I am
currently reading the SL Miniatures set (based on original Squad Leader/COI
boargame) and of course to several boardgames/PC games from which I have
tried to steal ideas/systems/stats over the years (Steel Panthers/EF/Combat
Mission etc) in the search for that eluisive 'perfect rule set' :-)

"I will talk no more forever" or at least until tomorrow :-)

Gary Barr
N.Ireland
UK
sgt.steiner@virgin.net

"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
Wilfred Owen

More about : wwii rules ultimate pointless review

Anonymous
May 13, 2004 9:09:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

This is an excellent post, and maybe the best as per the group's
interests in quite some time. Anyone interested in doing the same
various other periods (ancients, Napoleonics, ACW, skirmish, etc.)?

Thanks,

Dan

Gary Barr wrote:

<<huge snip>>
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 1:59:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Many thanks for this. I am printing it off for a read later tonight.

--
Justin Taylor
justin@hellou2.fsnet.co.uk
Related resources
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 2:14:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Gary Barr" <sgt.steiner@virgin.net> wrote in
news:F3Noc.113$PX3.52@newsfe1-win:

> Hi all
>
> Having injured my leg (trying to act the young lad)

Get better soon! Unless you fancy the time off, of course. ;-)

Many thanks for an excellent and informative post. I never realised there were so many WW2
sets available. And you didn't even mention the old Lionel Tarr set in Featherstone's
"Wargaming", or Buck Surdu's BAPS, or Jim Webster's "Hell by Daylight"... I wonder how many
WW2 sets have been written over the years?

> Battle ! Practical Wargaming - venerable set by late great
> Charles Grant one of my first ever sets, great read and
> hardback too ! antiquated style but always gave good games.
> No points system,no scn generators but does include couple
> of scns. Complex (or rather convoluted) systems in some
> respects simplistic in others. Definately a collectors item
> nowadays. Firmly designed for 20mm+ (or 1/76th 1/72nd to use
> its terminology) although most vehicles in photos were old
> Roco Mini-Tanks which were (are ?) closer to 15mm scale.
> Inf/Afvs are individuals. Simultaneous turns seem odd now.
> Grade : C TT : C

Ah, now that was the first wargaming book I owned (a library copy of Featherstone's "Battles
with model soldiers" had got me started) back in 1971. One guinea, it cost me.

A great read it certainly was -- I think Charles Grant was the greatest English prose stylist
since Dickens.

What did you do to get round the lack of rules for direct-fire HE and smoke?

I've seen lots of adaptations and expansions of these rules over the years at various clubs,
and I wonder if there would be any interest in an updated set using substantially the same
mechanisms.

Oh, and I'd be almost exactly 20mm tall in 1/87th scale.

[Snips]
> Micro-Warfare - another Skytrex set issued in early days of
> 6mm and designed for their use. A set with very strong board
> wargaming influence (in fact advocated use of hexes to play
> on). Simple in outlook and another set I never actually
> used. Units were Platoons/Troops with some record keeping to
> track casualties.
> Grade : E TT : E

Is this the set in the brown cover by Dave Rotor? I thought I was the only person in the
world to still have a set!

[Snips]
> World War II Infantry Action - Newbury set designed for
> skirmish 20mm games. Lots of charts/modifiers with obvious
> emphasis on Inf. Way too much detail for my tastes with even
> small games bogging down. Some generic scns and points
> system. Grade : D TT : D

Is this the "Cambrai to Sinai" set? IMHO they offered no improvement over the WRG 1925-1975
Infantry Action rules, a set published very early in the 1970s and still for my money one of
the only believable sets of rules for infantry minor action.

All the best,

John.
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 3:46:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi John D Salt

> Get better soon! Unless you fancy the time off, of course. ;-)
No choice as torn calf muscle............

> I never realised there were so many WW2
> sets available.
I know and there several I dont have as you point out. One I didnt mention
was Tank Battle In Min Guide No 4 The Med version by Featherstone as I lent
it years ago and never got it back (heavy groaning and sobbing ensues)
another superb read.

> > Battle ! Practical Wargaming -
> What did you do to get round the lack of rules for direct-fire HE and
smoke?
Made up my own of course :-)
I am a died in the wool tweaker of rulsets I just cant

> Oh, and I'd be almost exactly 20mm tall in 1/87th scale.
Is that what Mini-Tanks scale was ? how the memory fades.................

> > Micro-Warfare -
> Is this the set in the brown cover by Dave Rotor? I thought I was the
only person in the
> world to still have a set!
Yes thats the set I think I bought these from Skytrex at same time I bought
'Sim-War' (I think that was the name ?) a sort of generic WWII game with
terrain maps with squares on and little printed counters for Inf Tanks Boats
Planes Buildings etc (idea was you could substitute 6mm stuff for 3d effect.

> > World War II Infantry Action - Newbury set
> Is this the "Cambrai to Sinai" set?
No (I think I mentioned Cambrai To Sinai seperately ?) this was a Mike Klaka
(cool name) set by Newbury aimed at small skirmish games with Inf primarily.
My Cam-Sinai is a A5 sized white cover bog standard printface whereas Inf
Action set is much smaller sized (A2 ?) set with organey cover with outline
drawing of some Brit inf. Same poor typeface.

>WRG 1925-1975
> Infantry Action rules, a set published very early in the 1970s and still
for my money one of
> the only believable sets of rules for infantry minor action.
And a set I dont own either

Cheers
Gary
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 5:56:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

All right Gary,

I do NOT play WWII (well at least I won't admit to it).

Quite a post, I'm sure this took quite an effort.

I do detect a pet peeve on your part that needs more explanation for
those of us that have never played any of these rules -- the "Tiger Test".

Hey -- not one of these sets gets an "A" -- so what gives? Or perhaps
what is it you are looking for that no one delivers?

I watched Kelley's Heros several times. Ya know what, all you have to
do is fire that Sherman point blank into the rear of the thing -- worked
in every viewing of the movie that I made ;-). Of course you can always
bribe the Tiger crew too.

One Sherman -- takes out two Tigers, no problem -- say what?

mjc

Gary Barr wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Having injured my leg (trying to act the young lad) I am stuck at home and
> killing time and also having just purchased my umpteenth set of WWII wargame
> rules (Blitzkrieg Commander) I thought I would indulge myself in a personal
> mini-review of the WWII rules sets I own for the delectation (or otherwise)
> of list members. Some hoary old sets (ahh the nostalgia) and several new
> ones with a brave few in between.
> I have conducted review in distinctly unscientific fashion with bit of
> waffle and overall grading from A to E (a being best) I also give them what
> I call the Tiger Test (TT) as the first thing I usually look at in any set
> is how vunerable/tough a Tiger 1 is vs Shermans/T34 within the game system
> (ie how hard or easy to brew up and at what ranges) all this is of course
> totally a personal view...................
>
> Blitzkrieg Commander - brand new,read thru once but not played as yet,
> apparently based in part on some Fantasy (hiss boo) set these are a very
> nicely produced set. Very much in the trend of playable systems with easy to
> learn mechanisms and a good deal of abstractions. Look to give a good fast
> moving game and will be trying them out soon.
> Seem best suited to 6m/10mm and default 1 base = Plat/Troop Comes with built
> in army lists and scn generator and point system. Webpage/forum
> Grade : B TT : B
>
> Spearhead - one of my fav sets of rules (that bloke Conliffe can sure write
> innovative rulesets or what !?) allowing loads of kit on tabletop without
> bogging down. Nice historical feel to games (although Huns are favoured a
> tad), good tactical options abound. Nice touches such as target priorities
> and suchlike. Additional scn booklets available several scns included.Best
> for 6mm/10mm with 15mm at a stretch. 1 base = 1 Platoon. Webpage/forum
> Grade : A TT : B
>
> Crossfire - another Conliffe set with some very radical ideas. Superb for
> Inf combat giving a real 'feel' to actions less successful for AFVs. No set
> turn sequence with constantly changing iniatiative, system for LOS/Firing
> takes bit of getting used to and requires lots of terrain (numerous small
> items). Includes basic army lists and scn generator. Additional Scn booklet
> adds some nice rules. Best for 15mm+ as games quite petit. 1 base = 1
> section/squad.
> Webpage/forum
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Battle ! Practical Wargaming - venerable set by late great Charles Grant one
> of my first ever sets, great read and hardback too ! antiquated style but
> always gave good games. No points system,no scn generators but does include
> couple of scns. Complex (or rather convoluted) systems in some respects
> simplistic in others. Definately a collectors item nowadays. Firmly designed
> for 20mm+ (or 1/76th 1/72nd to use its terminology) although most vehicles
> in photos were old Roco Mini-Tanks which were (are ?) closer to 15mm scale.
> Inf/Afvs are individuals. Simultaneous turns seem odd now.
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> World War II Wargaming Airfix Guide No 15 - an early Bruce Quarrie set with
> upcoming trend (at that time) for multiple charts with multiple modifers for
> most aspects of the game. Good deal of info in a slim volume. Slow playing
> with several inconsistancies especially in area of gun ratings. Not a set I
> used much. Units are individuals. Designed for 20mm (ie Airfix 'midgies').
> No scns but does include points system another simultaneous turn set.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Battles With Model Tanks - another old hardback book with fairly generic set
> of simplistic Tank combat rules (Inf negelected) by Don Featherstone/Keith
> Robinson. General in scope (covers 1917 to late 1970s) but with several
> scns. Nice read but not much as ruleset. Designed mainly for 20mm and with
> units as individuals in the main.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Tank Battles In Miniature 1 A Wargamers guide to Western Desert Campaign
> 1941-42 -Another Featherstone tome in hardback. Super read especially the
> background stuff and since Don actually fought in the theatre it all has
> that ring of truth. Quite complex rules included with some odd stuff like
> the 'Movement Board' with little paper tanks on pins to simulate problems of
> movement in desert. Designed with 6mm in mind but with individual Afvs.
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Tank Battles etc 3 A guide to NW European Campaign - another Quarrie set,
> another hardback. Another superb read with lots of info and flavour. Rules
> are essentially an update of the Airfix guide stuff. Focus is on Tank combat
> with 6mm in mind, Inf rules are included but are tad cumbersome (too much
> bookeeping) and the Air-Ground rules (by Mike Spick) are a game unto
> themselves. Simultaneous turns caused a lot of problems playing this
> especially as one had to keep track of ammo useage and Rof combined with
> varying turret speeds (all seemed rather intricate for 6mm).
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> World War II Rules (simplified) - where did I get these ? a Bath Wargame
> Society set very basic in outlook (being a phamplet !) which I never
> actually used but which surprisingly covered most aspects.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Tactical Commander - A Tabletop Games set (I think there are updated
> versions to my original) and very much in early 1980s mould (ie lots of
> detail lots of charts modifiers etc) designed for 20mm skirmish games.
> Another simultaneous type (although this is not really defined but assumed).
> Inf combat well covered and reasonably playable but I found the Tank combat
> always seemed to need a score of 6 to achieve hit vs any target. Some
> oddities in Gun/Armour relationshpis did not help. Individual scale.
> Grade : C TT : D
>
> Combined Arms WWII Infantry-Armour Actions - another TTG set designed for
> 6mm scale primarily. Again heavy on stats/charts. This was a set I used for
> a long time and which I tweaked heavily. Slow playing due to large amounts
> of chart/modifier useage which seemed so accurate at the time but with
> hindsight seems so needless. Author (Ian Shaw) also done some seperate army
> lists (which covered this set plus WRG and Newbury). AFVs were individuals
> with Inf grouped as Section bases.
> Grade : C (more like A when I was using them) TT : B
>
> Armoured Warfare for 1/200th scale - set produced by Skytrex to accompany
> their 10mm range. Units were indidviduals. Some rather different rules
> (first use I recall of multiple dice for MGs etc in place of multiple
> modifiers) especially the ordinance firing system wherein firer had to
> predict the range in mm to target and depending how far out guess was this
> modified strike values. Designed for 10mm but easily useable for larger
> scales.
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Firefly WWII 1/300th & 1/200th Battlegroup Actions - set by Bruce Rea
> Taylor. Again another 1980s set heavy on charts/modifiers. Was direct rival
> to WRG sets with more depth/detail. Included several army lists including
> historical units. Again a slow playing set due to number of charts etc I
> neglected it in favour of Combined Arms but if I recall it was a rather
> popular set (at least in UK). Individual Afvs and Inf groups (rated
> seperately for
> individual nations/types)
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> WRG Rules for Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 - WRG set another of my first
> sets. At the time a rather simple set but playable. Suffered IMHO from usual
> WRG predisposistion to competition rules. Inf was generic (no bonuses for
> MG42s in this) the little bases of 4 made them fiddly and annnoying. List of
> manufactuers etc to rear makes for nostalgic reading. Overall a set I
> maligned at time in many ways but which actually generates a better 'game'
> than those I used. Primarily for 6mm (only small scale at time). Individual
> Afvs and Inf groups (half-sections).
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Micro-Warfare - another Skytrex set issued in early days of 6mm and designed
> for their use. A set with very strong board wargaming influence (in fact
> advocated use of hexes to play on). Simple in outlook and another set I
> never actually used. Units were Platoons/Troops with some record keeping to
> track casualties.
> Grade : E TT : E
>
> GI Commander 1939-45 - A US set (one of first I had seen/purchased) via
> Navwar. Complex (especially the advanced rules) with lots of
> charts/modifiers and odd fractional units stats (eg some Inf had hit factors
> of 1.25). Boardgame influence detected but not specified. 6mm design basis
> with inherent army lists. The need for fast mathmatical brain made them not
> my cup of tea.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Command Decision (editions I, II & III) - a set designed for 20mm (all Frank
> Chadwicks photos show this scale) another US set which distinctively came in
> a box but good set for 6mm. Simultaneous sequence but use of order chits was
> excellent and made HQs feel very important. Played this a lot but found that
> (unlike Spearhead) it was suited to none too large games or turns took a lot
> longer than the 15mins real-time the rules advocated. Good system of hits
> related to troop grade and morale (expanded in later editions) but way too
> much firing in a turn (3 possible firing phases with multiple Rof) this was
> addressed in 3rd edition (units only fire in 1 phase). Whilst loving the
> order chit system in someways it was too flexible as units could literally
> zip across the battlefield. 1 Base = 1 Pltoon/Troop
> Used to be supported with quarterly Command Post magazine. Webpage/forum
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Cambrai to Sinai 1917-1967 Newbury Rules - another early set covering 6mm
> and 20mm (parallel rules contained). Another set with convoluted systems
> which I found slowed games down to a crawl and were seldom finished.
> Numerous charts/modifiers. Covered all aspects of WWII. Seperate Army lists
> available. Not a favourite with me this one. Individual AFVs and Inf (groups
> at 6mm scale)
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> No 1 Wargames Command rules for WWII - a set for 6mm I played a lot prior to
> finding Combined Arms (which had similar firing/armour system). Inf a bit of
> an afterthought (rules came with 1cm square cut-out counters in lieu of
> figs). Unique morale system termed IKB (I know better) wherein unit failing
> morale was subject to fairly random movement which lead to some odd
> situations. A campaign set was released (Sword Beach) with updated rules.
> Afvs were indidviduals Inf in groups but organized at 1/3rd historical basis
> (ie 1 coy eqivalent to 1 Bttn etc).
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Berlin Or Bust - slim set designed for skirmish games. Nothing ground
> breaking but nothing odd either. Another set not used (rather a few like
> this in my collection !). Individual Afvs and Inf.
> Grade : D TT : C
>
> WRG Rules 1925-1950 Platoon to Battalion level - updated from original set
> (published 1973) with a good deal more detail especially in realm of Command
> and Control and use of Tactical Modes (I found this cumbersome). Much more
> accurate than old set at sacrafice in playability. Covers all scales but
> best suited to 6mm. Indidvidual Afvs Inf in groups. Includes army lists (in
> rather cryptic form) and again shows its competition bent.
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Korps Commander WWII The Road To Berlin - another BRTaylor/TTg set aimed at
> playing higher level games (basic units being Coys) but with usual mass
> charts/modifiers. Very cumbersome mechanics in many respects and slow.
> Includes some nice Divisional organizations and as per Firefly a few
> historical. A set I wanted to like (who doesnt want to field Corps/Division)
> but found wanting.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> World War II Infantry Action - Newbury set designed for skirmish 20mm games.
> Lots of charts/modifiers with obvious emphasis on Inf. Way too much detail
> for my tastes with even small games bogging down. Some generic scns and
> points system.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Operation Warboard - my first set of WWII rules (in fact my first set of
> wargame rules) firmly for 20mm games (quirk of illustrations are use of
> unpainted Airfix etc figs/vehicles and chalked on roads polysthrene hills
> etc). Another nice read (rules in 1970s were very much books) with lots of
> background/explanation. Units are individual Afv/Inf. Simple firing rules
> and Tank rules with several inconsistancies. Use of numerous plastic grids
> (which one had to make oneself) the MG grid being a real beast. Great fun to
> play (especially for a 12yr old) and a good grounding (along with Battle!)
> in the great hobby of wargaming.........
> Lots of nostalgia with this set affects grading.
> Grade : A TT : C
>
> Clash Of Armor Rules for Grand Tactical WWII - set for 6mm (could use
> 10/15mm) with some interesting features such as rolls to activate individual
> formations (graded per Coy and more importantly by its Commander). Great way
> to show difference in quality of units and yet allow reaction to enemy moves
> (at cost for subsequent moves). However system was rather slow and the
> combat mechanisms rather odd at times (total firepower factors divided by
> target defence factor with limits to totals). Couple scn booklets available.
> 1 base = 1 Platoon. Had a lot of potential but never really got to grips
> with rules (mainly as more playable Spearhead available)
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Where The Iron Crosses Grow - set bought at Wargames Show (Colours at
> Reading I think) designed for 15-20mm skirmish games. Another set with
> nothing new but nothing bad either. Strangely for skirmish set the Inf rules
> are tad underwritten (ie unclear in cases) and seemed taken from Tactical
> Commander set in large part. The title and drawing of Tiger on front
> probably attracted m to this set :-)
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Rapid Fire - designed as a fast play set for 15/20mm stuff they do exactly
> what they say. Definately a highly playable set nicely produced (who fails
> to drool at all the colour photos of 20mm kit !?) simplistic in most
> respects (especially for my tastes the Gun/Tank rules). A big following in
> UK and several excellent supplements available. 1 bases = 1 platoon (not
> strict scale). Such playable type rules are very much the trend in recent
> years.
> Webpage/forum.
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Tiger Tiger Burning Bright - produced as set for 1/200th scale but playable
> as 6mm or 15mm. Another Colours (or was it Warfare) purchase. Once again the
> Inf rules are tad unintelligible to me (maybe its me or authors are assuming
> too much ?) and rules are overall neither good bad or indifferent. 1 base =
> individual AFV/Inf section. Another set not played.
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Blitzspiel - slim booklet of simple rules another Show purchase. Fairly
> broad armour and gun groupings and no C&C rules of note. Bit like cut-down
> WRG 1973 (but why bother) certainly playable. 1 base = 1 platoon.
> Grade : C TT : D
>
> Overlord rules for the Normandy Campaign - a set designed for 10/15mm (20mm
> ok) covering a finite period (June-August 1944) and location. Author Barrie
> Lovell has some great ideas and produced one of my favourite rulesets (nice
> balance between gameplay and level of accuracy at scale aimed for). Inf
> combat system is reminiscent of Squad Leader in some ways. The morale/combat
> rules seem to generate rather historical occurrences (my usual opponnent
> often bemoaned how his Inexperienced US Troops basically went to ground
> (Pinned) when fired upon) which to a point can lead to rather poor 'games'
> (a good scn is key). AFV combat could tense but with 1" = 10 yds ground
> scale even heavy Tanks are vunerable on average tabletop. Order chits are
> nicely used in the game. Quite chart/modifier heavy but not overly complex
> and with games of 1-2 coys plus supports quite playable. 1 base = 1 Afv or
> Inf group (half sections). Comes with Coy organizations and a single scn.
> Interestingly the author is now an advocate of Crossfire. Basic scns
> included
> and points system.
> Grade : A TT : B
>
> Grey Storm Red Steel Tactical Combat On the Eastern Front - followup set to
> Overlord by Barrie Lovell and another fine set this time covering a much
> greater timeframe and theatre. Really Overlord Deluxe this set retains the
> basic systems of prevoius set but with numerous echancements. Order chits
> are still there but Ivans must place theirs first giving Huns more
> flexibility. Inf now fire not as individual groups but total firepower to
> cover a gridded oval area. Tank combat has been filled out (and complicated)
> greatly and several eastern Front aspects added (much more depth to fighting
> in buildings and melees). Includes a nice scn generator/pints system which
> usually sees the Huns well outnumered (one memorable game saw my 300pts of
> Huns reduced by half whilst Ivan 300 pts was tripled !!). 1 base = 1 Afv or
> Inf Group (half-section).
> Grade : A TT : B
>
> Great Battles Of WWII Volume 1 The Canadians in Europe - set from (surprise)
> Canadians Wargamers Group set a Divisional level with basic stands being
> Coys. Interesting concept for games with Forming Up Points and passage of
> time being important. Combat system abstracted due to level played and games
> are rather big overall (1 scn advocates having a rolling 15ft paper map)
> Designed for 6mm. Terrain so abstracted that game plays best on boardgame
> style map. Includes background on Cannuck army and several historical scns.
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Battalions In Crisis ! Small Unit Combat in WWII - a US set (apparently a
> clone of Tractics ?) for 20mm skirmish games. Lots of charts/modifiers
> (including individual charts for each Afv). Tank combat was reasonably good
> (if tad modifier intense) but I found Inf combat too slow for anyhting but
> smallest games. Artillery grid was slow to use as it tracked individual
> shells (mind you older Battle and Op Warboard also done this). Lots of
> detail included but a too high a loss of playability for me. Couple of
> expansion modules and I think a bi-monthly mag
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Abteilung 15mm WWII Battle Rules - Set produced by Peter Pig (RFCM range) to
> accompany their 15mm figs. Generic unit types and simplistic combat to
> garner a playable game is the aim. Some nice ideas for setting up scns but
> the overall system weighed too much in favour of fastplay IMHO. No hard and
> fast scale but basically 1 unit = Platoon
> Forum.
> Grade : C TT : D
>
> Military Operations '39-'45 - another show bought set (by Agema) with again
> some interesting concepts but not radically different enough to garner much
> play on my tabletop. Production values rather low (pages all photcopies) but
> included army lists for most nations.
> 1 base = 1 platoon
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Panzer Tactics Rules For Coy and Bttn Battles - another US set (the support
> I give their economy eh ?) with an Armour combat system I enjoyed (more a
> something of a throwback to 1980s rules) but an Inf system I did not (card
> counters advocated again with some stacking !). 6mm design emphasis. 1 base
> = 1 Afv or Inf fireteam (bit US-centric).
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> TAC : WWII Rules for Brigade Level Actions - another low production value UK
> set with some nice C&C concepts but again rather tedious to play (mainly due
> to number of counters required). No advantage to this set to my mind
> (enfeebled as it may be) over Spearhead and not played. Several campaign scn
> booklets available.
> Grade : D TT : D
>
> Cross of Iron Eastern Front Skirmish Rules - skirmish set set a very low
> level (individual figs stats) in sort of RPG setting (influence of film
> obvious). Several scns included. best with 20mm + (I would think great for
> new 28mm stuff). Low production values (included some pasted in pages.
> Another set read but unplayed. Afv rules give scant attention.
> Grade : C TT : D
>
> Take Cover !! Tactical Approach to WWII - Brittania Minis set nicely
> illustrated with their figs etc. Very much a rival to Rapid Fire being of
> similar ilk/scale/playability with some tweaks. Ambush rule is nicely
> implemented but overall combat rules are simple/generic. Includes 2 scns and
> sample lists but other army lists are available seperately. As per Rapid
> Fire they are fastplay with 1 base = 1 platoon/ Inf group in sixes for
> firing. Forum
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Mein Panzer WWII Edition - original set (new updated set) from US using a
> modular system (ie if you want to lay only Tanks or without Arty etc).
> Combat was quite well done (not too many modifiers) although some stats
> seemed off (that Tiger Test again) but Inf very brittle indeed (addressed I
> believe in newer version). Complete with army lists and couple of scns. 1
> base = 1 Afv or Inf squad another set that I did not use much as better sets
> around. Webpage/forum
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Tiger Tiger - Another show purchase and another low end photocopy (DTP ?)
> type. Actually quite comprehensive with Armour combat system the author
> seems to intend is used in Rapid Fire or similar but since its not much
> different/better I cant see why. Inf rules are again bit lacking. 1 base = 1
> platoon
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Piquet II Point Of Attack II The Blitzkrieg - PK seems to be a system gamers
> either love or hate I quite like it for its unpredictabliity but was insure
> of how system would work for WWII (having previously tired it for Horse &
> Musket). I was pleasently surprised that games play as well as they do. The
> initiative/card system is of course unique (house rule I like is to roll
> D12s not D20 and higher roll gets to choose to go first or second with both
> players playing out their respective rolls and disregarding the 'clock').
> POA gives rules stats for 3 levels of play Squad/Platoon/Battalion (with Coy
> level available on web) and can use any scale of minis (I used 15mm for
> squad and 6mm for others) and each level plays similarly only with few
> tweaks and differing ground scales/ranges. Combat system is fairly simple in
> terms of stats (usual dice type modifiers) and if using random unit
> selection rolls it can lead to odd but plausible unit matchups combat
> results combine damage and morale outcomes. Lack of any spotting rules
> whatsoever seemed odd but within the PK context it works ok (as seeing
> something does not mean you have available action points/cards to deal with
> them). The coverage of several levels of play in one set is nice and offsets
> initial expense of rules themselves. PK is a highly tweakable set (tweaking
> seems actively encouraged in fact !). Webpage/forum
> Grade : A TT : C
>
> Battlefront WWII - yet another US set (I really ought to get a medal or
> something !) by authors of Fire And Fury Acw set (and a fine set they are
> too). Presentation is excellent with numerous illustrations/diagrams and a
> fun set of individual unit cards (with colour (sorry color) photos. Scale is
> strange in that AFVs represent 1-2 vehicles (half-platoons). Initial rules
> include Huns/Yanks/Ivans late war with Brits and other timeframes in
> expansions. System uses a derivative of dice modified action points for
> activations and combat is simple but effective combined with morale
> outcomes. Overall a nice set of rules but lack of Brits in initial release
> relegated these to my read but not played much bunch. Webpage/forum
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Panzer Marsh ! - set by North Hull Club with nice glossy presentation (a
> nice bi-product of Rapid Fire is this trend in UK rules now) designed for
> 20mm stuff (some nice pics of Hull blokes stuff inside). Somewhat of a
> throwback to older style rules with strange system of ranging sticks for
> shooting etc. A set I again read but not played as they seem no advantage
> over other sets I had (why then did I buy them you ask.....who knows !).
> Includes late war army lists with others available seperately. Webpage
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Megablitz Rules for Large Scale Actions - Set designed for very large level
> games with bases = roughly a Bttn/Regt (including POL stuff most divisions
> only need 6-10 bases !). At such a scale combat etc is very generic and
> simple being mostly a case of hit points and defence points and Afvs along
> the lines of Heavy-Light.Designed with 20mm in mind but any scale possible.
> As with Great Battles system terrain is very abstracted at this level. Not
> played this set as yet. Forum
> Grade : C TT : D
>
> Kampfgruppe Commander Clash Of Armor II - updated version of COA with
> somewhat streamlined mechanics making gameplay a tad easier but still too
> convulted compared to Spearhead and similar.
> Grade : C TT : B
>
> Battlegroup PanzerGrenadier WWII Fastplay Rules - new UK set by David Brown
> (of Chef De Brigade Nappy rules fame) designed for 15mm (10/20mm useable)
> with 1 unit = squad. Uses a derivative of DBx PIP dicing system for C&C.
> Fairly simple and straightforward combat systems. 2 Scns included and scn
> booklet available. A set I have read and played once but intend to give at
> least another outing. Webpage/forum
> Grade : B TT : C
>
> Flames Of War the WWII Miniatures Game - another love or hate set it seems
> based word has it on GW Warhammer Fantasy (boo hiss) set. Nicely produced in
> NZ this time (nows its the world economy I support !) with lovely photos of
> Battlefront Minis. Comes with mid-war lists and basic scn generator. Simple
> mechanics based firmly on D6 with saving throws of all things (come to think
> of it new Blitzkrieg Cmdr has this must be the fantasy rules influence?).
> Certainly a fastplay set seems designed ala GW to bring hordes of youths
> into the hobby and thats no mean feat or aim. Interaction between units is
> basic leading IMHO to fairly stylised/samey games which publishers seems to
> address by issuing of a large number supplements with new types of kit and
> list/special rules (not a fav 'tactic' of mine). Pushed as competition set
> for which it is well geared. Webpage/forum
> Grade : C TT : C
>
> Well thats it except to give honourable mention to numerous web-based
> free-download sets I have tried (1943, Dic Tac, etc etc) of which I am
> currently reading the SL Miniatures set (based on original Squad Leader/COI
> boargame) and of course to several boardgames/PC games from which I have
> tried to steal ideas/systems/stats over the years (Steel Panthers/EF/Combat
> Mission etc) in the search for that eluisive 'perfect rule set' :-)
>
> "I will talk no more forever" or at least until tomorrow :-)
>
> Gary Barr
> N.Ireland
> UK
> sgt.steiner@virgin.net
>
> "Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
> and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
> bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
> Wilfred Owen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 12:51:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi Quid Veritas

> Quite a post, I'm sure this took quite an effort.
Its amazing want enforced lounging around can do :-)
>
> I do detect a pet peeve on your part that needs more explanation for
> those of us that have never played any of these rules -- the "Tiger Test".
Not so much a peeve more a 'rule of thumb'

> Hey -- not one of these sets gets an "A" -- so what gives?
> I watched Kelley's Heros several times.
You guessed it not one set allows you to fire paint shells at a Tiger or to
play music to annoy them :-)
Like I said nothing very scientific/logical about my ramblings

Cheers

--
Gary Barr
N.Ireland
UK
sgt.steiner@virgin.net

"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
Wilfred Owen
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 1:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi all

further to my meandering post I discovered 3 sets of rules I pwn which I
forgot to mention so for completeness here goes :

Advance To Contact Infantry Action In WWII - A slim booklet with rules for
20mm Inf actions with details such as figure Skills & Strength and scant
Tank coverage. 3 scns included with no more than 12 figs per side. Another
set not tried by yours truly. Individual scale.
Grade : C TT : E

Microtank Warfare - a early set for 6mm ( photo on front cover shows
sandtable terrain and Leiceister Microtanks rember them ?). Written by Keith
Robinson they are vehicle-centric with combination of effective armour stats
vs strike values (which rather uniquely are garnered from graphs ie
literally lines drawn on graph paper !). I liked these except the Inf rules
were a let down. Designed for 6mm with 1 base = 1 Afv or Inf Section
Grade : C TT : B

Battles With Micro-Tanks - an early US set by Martin Greenan which I
obtained via Heroics & Ros. I used these quite a lot with 6mm stuff for
which they are designed. They have a quirky sequence of play with 2 movement
'impulses' with sides alternating movement within each impulse. Another
vehicle-centric set with Inf being 1 hit and they are dead wonders. As I
recall Artillery was overly potent especially vs AFVs. 1 base = 1
Platoon/Section
Grade : C TT : C

One note ref Battles with Micro-Tanks is that the rules were playtested by
Southern Maine Wargamers Association and one Dan Cyr is mentioned by author
is this the list member Mr Cyr I wonder ? note rules were issued in 1975 so
Dan must have been playing wargamers whilst still in nappies (diapers) :-)

Cheers

--
Gary Barr
N.Ireland
UK
sgt.steiner@virgin.net

"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
Wilfred Owen
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 2:08:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Gary Barr" <sgt.steiner@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:F3Noc.113$PX3.52@newsfe1-win...

Fantastic post, very entertaining.

{snip}
> Battle ! Practical Wargaming - venerable set by late great Charles Grant
one
> of my first ever sets, great read and hardback too ! antiquated style but

Ditto.

{snip}
> WRG Rules for Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 - WRG set another of my first
> sets. At the time a rather simple set but playable. Suffered IMHO from
usual

I rather liked this one and played it a lot - could complete a battalion
(ish) sized game in an afternoon. As you say, infantry combat was a bit
fiddly & I yearned for a set where infantyr were sections and not
firegroups.

> Micro-Warfare - another Skytrex set issued in early days of 6mm and
designed
> for their use. A set with very strong board wargaming influence (in fact

My first ever set of micro rules.

> advocated use of hexes to play on). Simple in outlook and another set I
> never actually used. Units were Platoons/Troops with some record keeping
to
> track casualties.
> Grade : E TT : E

The best I can say about these is that they were 'interesting'.

{snip}
> Cambrai to Sinai 1917-1967 Newbury Rules - another early set covering 6mm
> and 20mm (parallel rules contained). Another set with convoluted systems

I got these as they addressed the need for a set with infantry represented
as sections. Dreadful rules though.

{snip}
> Korps Commander WWII The Road To Berlin - another BRTaylor/TTg set aimed
at
> playing higher level games (basic units being Coys) but with usual mass

The mechanisms in this are essentially a stright copy of those used in the
immense and rather wonderful boardgame 'Highway to the Reich'. Worked OK for
regimental sized actions, but no bigger.

{snip}
> Blitzspiel - slim booklet of simple rules another Show purchase. Fairly
> broad armour and gun groupings and no C&C rules of note. Bit like cut-down
> WRG 1973 (but why bother) certainly playable. 1 base = 1 platoon.
> Grade : C TT : D

Funnily enough this is one of my favourite rulesets, essentially it merges
WRG 25-50 turn sequence with a DBA combat system. We normally play it at 1:1
ground scale ie 12"=100m for 6mm stuff and use it for platoon/company
actions. There is no C3 etc system as it is meant to be played as an umpired
game with hidden movement, teams of players etc. The author (John Armatys)
is a club regular, although his skirmish version is called 'A Platoon
Commanders War' & we've used it for WW1, SCW & WW2.

{snip}
> TAC : WWII Rules for Brigade Level Actions - another low production value
UK
> set with some nice C&C concepts but again rather tedious to play (mainly
due
> to number of counters required). No advantage to this set to my mind

With some streamlining and keeping the scenarios down to a couple of
battalions it works OK. Seems to appeal to players at the club who don't
like the command arrows etc of Spearhead, even though having to make a Tac
roll to change facing is even more restrictive than SHs oft-debated 'pivot'
rules. After years of trying to get them to like SH I've dumped it in favour
of TAC now.

{snip}
> Megablitz Rules for Large Scale Actions - Set designed for very large
level
> games with bases = roughly a Bttn/Regt (including POL stuff most divisions
> only need 6-10 bases !). At such a scale combat etc is very generic and
> simple being mostly a case of hit points and defence points and Afvs along
> the lines of Heavy-Light.Designed with 20mm in mind but any scale
possible.
> As with Great Battles system terrain is very abstracted at this level. Not
> played this set as yet. Forum
> Grade : C TT : D

Played several games of this - to be treated as a toolkit to construct
interesting scenarios and IMHO the treament of terrain needs a lot of work.
Depending on the effort put into scenario design this can produce fantastic
games or dreadful ones. The problem with many historical 'operational'
level scenarios uis that the result is essentially pre-determined by the
historical troop levels, deployments & capabilites and coming up with
scenarios where both sides have something interesting to do apart from 'die
with honour' is a bit tough. OTOH the Egyptians in our Sinai 67 game had to
do just that and claimed to have a very enjoyable time doing so.

Cheers
Martin
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 2:37:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi Martin

> Fantastic post, very entertaining.
One does what one can :-)

> > Micro-Warfare -
> The best I can say about these is that they were 'interesting'.
Indeed :-)

> > Cambrai to Sinai 1917-1967 Newbury Rules
> I got these as they addressed the need for a set with infantry represented
> as sections. Dreadful rules though.
I found all the Newbury sets (in all periods) to be bloody awful to read and
tedious to play but they appealed due to sheer amount of detail contained
:-)

> > Korps Commander WWII The Road To Berlin
> Worked OK for
> regimental sized actions, but no bigger.
I found this main disapointment ie it simply did not work for the large
actions it envisaged.

> > Blitzspiel
> Funnily enough this is one of my favourite rulesets,
Different strokes for different folks eh :-)

> > TAC : WWII Rules for Brigade Level Actions
> With some streamlining
Ahh tweaking

> and keeping the scenarios down to a couple of
> battalions it works OK.
Again not what I bought rules for

> After years of trying to get them to like SH I've dumped it in favour
> of TAC now.
The new Blitzkrieg Commander may be an option with its commans activation
rolls, I would more hesistantly reccomend KG Commander in this respect as
well.

> > Megablitz Rules for Large Scale Actions -
> IMHO the treament of terrain needs a lot of work.
True British understatement :-)

> Depending on the effort put into scenario design this can produce
fantastic
> games or dreadful ones.
Alas and alack this is very much the same for most if not all WWII games
IMHO

Cheers
Gary
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 4:12:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Gary Barr" <sgt.steiner@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:uj1pc.57$bi3.16@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
{snip}
> > > Blitzspiel
> > Funnily enough this is one of my favourite rulesets,
> Different strokes for different folks eh :-)

Sure, and a lot comes down to scenario design as well (see below).

> > > TAC : WWII Rules for Brigade Level Actions
> > With some streamlining
> Ahh tweaking

It wouldn't be a decent set of rules without a bit of tweaking - grafting on
the much more simplified SH spotting & movement stuff whilst getting rid of
all those stupid messages passing up and down the command chain speeds
things up no end. Completely re-writing the combat and morale routines helps
as well - in fact about the only thing I'm left with is the concept of 'tac
rolls' themselves!

> > and keeping the scenarios down to a couple of
> > battalions it works OK.
> Again not what I bought rules for

Yes. I played the original TAC with one of the authors (Nick) but even with
his input in a regimental level battle, the whole thing ground along slowly.
When a few planes turned up it just stopped altogether! Nick has built a
very jolly air combat campaign game called 'Chocks Away' around the TAC air
combat system though, which we often play - some of my characters have even
survived as many as two or three missions.

> > After years of trying to get them to like SH I've dumped it in favour
> > of TAC now.
> The new Blitzkrieg Commander may be an option with its commans activation
> rolls, I would more hesistantly reccomend KG Commander in this respect as
> well.

Well, I'd probably only end up re-writing the entire thing anyway, I'm happy
with my TAC-SH-CD hybrid for brigade sized 15mm WW2 games at the moment.
I've had a long hard look at the Warmaster C3 system for various periods but
in the end I've never bothered to do much with it and there are plenty of
free rules which use it to cover a number of periods.

> > > Megablitz Rules for Large Scale Actions -
> > IMHO the treament of terrain needs a lot of work.
> True British understatement :-)

Yes. I usually end up writing special terrain rules on a scenario by
scenario basis, but for my WW1 version of Megablitz (the imaginatively
entitled 'Kaiserblitz') I've done proper terrain rules, as well as rewriting
the movement, combat & order systems and redefining the unit types and
capabilities. Having bought Jagers on bicycles, I need some rules to be able
to use them, same for that Emhar A7V. Essentially all I am left with are
the order chits, simultaneous movement, recce and hidden strength points &
combat results.

> > Depending on the effort put into scenario design this can produce
> fantastic games or dreadful ones.
> Alas and alack this is very much the same for most if not all WWII games

Megablitz seems more prone to this than most, probably because the basic
systems are so abstract. Again, umpires and hidden movement help a lot, but
they do with most games. Pretty well any scenario which has outnumbered
plucky defenders being assaulted, but with some 'cavalry' (ideally from some
unexpected direction) on the way will work OK, as long as it allows for a
bit of manouvre along the way.

Cheers
Martin
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 7:11:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi Martin

> It wouldn't be a decent set of rules without a bit of tweaking - grafting
on
> the much more simplified SH spotting & movement stuff whilst getting rid
of
> all those stupid messages passing up and down the command chain speeds
> things up no end. Completely re-writing the combat and morale routines
helps
> as well - in fact about the only thing I'm left with is the concept of
'tac
> rolls' themselves!
LOL

> > The new Blitzkrieg Commander may be an option with its commans
activation
> > rolls, I would more hesistantly reccomend KG Commander in this respect
as
> > well.
> Well, I'd probably only end up re-writing the entire thing anyway,
Indeed but they may give added inspiration (there is a Lite version of the
BlitzCmdr rules for DL at their website I believe) ?

>I'm happy
> with my TAC-SH-CD hybrid for brigade sized 15mm WW2 games at the moment.
Any chance of them being published ? :-)

> but for my WW1 version of Megablitz (the imaginatively
> entitled 'Kaiserblitz')
{Snip}
> Essentially all I am left with are
> the order chits, simultaneous movement, recce and hidden strength points &
> combat results.
LOL again

Cheers

Gary
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 9:23:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"Martin Rapier" <m.rapier@shef.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:c822b5$lco$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk...
> "Gary Barr" <sgt.steiner@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:F3Noc.113$PX3.52@newsfe1-win...
>
> Fantastic post, very entertaining.
>
> {snip}
> > Battle ! Practical Wargaming - venerable set by late great Charles Grant
> one
> > of my first ever sets, great read and hardback too ! antiquated style
but
>
> Ditto.
>
> {snip}
> > WRG Rules for Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 - WRG set another of my first
> > sets. At the time a rather simple set but playable. Suffered IMHO from
> usual
>
> I rather liked this one and played it a lot - could complete a battalion
> (ish) sized game in an afternoon. As you say, infantry combat was a bit
> fiddly & I yearned for a set where infantyr were sections and not
> firegroups.

Precisely the change "we" made.
I used to play wrg at tournaments.
Put me off it for a while.

Both the 1973 version and the latest have their pluses, IMO.
Although you need to fix the smoke rules in the 1973 one, there was
something in the morale system was a bit off n all.
Anonymous
May 15, 2004 5:22:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

In message <F3Noc.113$PX3.52@newsfe1-win>, Gary Barr
<sgt.steiner@virgin.net> writes
>Blitzkrieg Commander - brand new,read thru once but not played as yet,
>apparently based in part on some Fantasy (hiss boo) set these are a very
>nicely produced set. Very much in the trend of playable systems with easy to
>learn mechanisms and a good deal of abstractions. Look to give a good fast
>moving game and will be trying them out soon.
>Seem best suited to 6m/10mm and default 1 base = Plat/Troop Comes with built
>in army lists and scn generator and point system. Webpage/forum
>Grade : B TT : B
>
I just got these, too - bought them on line and they were on my doormat
two days later. I've only played a few solo games yet, but they seem to
be pretty much as advertised. Very well produced, lots of nice pictures
of games in progress to illustrate the rules. Fairly simple combat
resolution mechanisms, very few modifiers to remember and therefore
limited differentiation between units. The key to this set is the
command and control mechanism, which is based almost exactly on that in
the Warmaster fantasy rules. Command units roll dice to issue commands,
and can go on as long as they like until they have a failure, when they
have to stop. This makes the amount you can do in one move very variable
- you might well get to do nothing at all if your two or three command
units all fail their initial rolls. On the other hand with luck and good
planning a single unit or formation can do a lot - several moves and or
shots - before the opponent can respond. This last seems to be the thing
which upsets those who dislike the Warmaster set. For me it works in the
fantasy environment; it wouldn't do for Napoleonics, for example. I
think it feels right for a certain level of WW2 battle - squad level
fighting where it makes sense for individual units or small formations
to dash around and do stuff on their own. Still need to see if they hold
together with experience or if they are just a curiosity.

>
>Panzer Marsh ! - set by North Hull Club with nice glossy presentation (a
>nice bi-product of Rapid Fire is this trend in UK rules now) designed for
>20mm stuff (some nice pics of Hull blokes stuff inside). Somewhat of a
>throwback to older style rules with strange system of ranging sticks for
>shooting etc. A set I again read but not played as they seem no advantage
>over other sets I had (why then did I buy them you ask.....who knows !).
>Includes late war army lists with others available seperately. Webpage
>Grade : C TT : C
>
Actually Panzer Marsch! Really a set of house rules evolved over twenty
years, so as you say their mechanisms look dated. Quite quick and fun
once you have learned the quirks, but once you go beyond the simple
stuff - tanks and infantry - it's all very ad-hoc; you can see that each
rule has been bolted on using whatever occurred to them at the time.
They badly need a good edit. Perhaps the best part of these rules are
the army lists - sold separately on laminated A4 sheets. The major
nations have up to seven or eight lists for different periods, and they
also include most of the minor nations - Norwegian, Danish, Dutch,
Hungarian etc. There's a lot of data collected here in a handy form,
even if you don't use the rules.
--
John Secker
Anonymous
May 15, 2004 1:50:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi John

> Actually Panzer Marsch!
I know, my spelling/typing was particularily atrocious in that post ! :-)

Cheers
--
Gary Barr
N.Ireland
UK
sgt.steiner@virgin.net

"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
Wilfred Owen
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 8:33:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Great post Gary. Thanks for doing it - very informative. I did not
see PBI by Peter Pig listed. Have you tried that set yet?
Regards,
Clay


"Gary Barr" <sgt.steiner@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<NJlpc.8$jo6.7@newsfe1-win>...
> Hi John
>
> > Actually Panzer Marsch!
> I know, my spelling/typing was particularily atrocious in that post ! :-)
>
> Cheers
> --
> Gary Barr
> N.Ireland
> UK
> sgt.steiner@virgin.net
>
> "Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
> and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
> bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
> Wilfred Owen
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 11:19:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi Clay

> Great post Gary. Thanks for doing it - very informative. I did not
> see PBI by Peter Pig listed. Have you tried that set yet?
Yes tried PBI2 with a friend but since it was his set of rules I didnt
include it on list, I will likely purchase them at some point of course :-)

Just ordered (cant help myself it seems) Guts N Glory rules so another
addition due at some point :-)

Cheers

--
Gary Barr
N.Ireland
UK
sgt.steiner@virgin.net

"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd
and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed
bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder."
Wilfred Owen
July 13, 2009 10:19:38 AM

Hmmm- reminds me of dusty shed days-would love a copy of No1 Wargames Command -Sword Beach campaign ruls-wonder if anyones knows of a set anywhere?

K
Anonymous
March 19, 2010 10:17:22 PM

Your mention of Practical wargames made me smile. I bought it in the 70's and played more improbable scenarios with airfix 1/72's than most can imagine. Who says the the Japanese and the Germans did not fight side by side against the allies. I was only 10 or so.

I don't think I ever had any more fun wargaming that those long ago days, and my grandfather was very patient about me getting lichen stuck in the felt of his pool table. That pool table might have never been safe for democracy with out my help.

Thanks for bringing back the memories.

Steve
March 19, 2010 11:03:42 PM

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