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Apple iMac Display Problems Reported

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November 27, 2007 11:10:36 AM

Owners of 20 and 24 inch iMacs have reported problems with their iMac displays. Apple has not acknowledged any problems.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/27/apple_imac_display_problems_reported/index.html
November 27, 2007 12:19:21 PM

Typical LCD. I was watching a video on one of my friend's XPS laptops - brand new - and from my viewing angle it was completely inverted just like what happened to the screen on Youtube. Once I stood up to a normal angle it was fine. I have the same issue on my Viewsonic 19" LCD and I've seen it on others including the $350 19" Viewsonic LCD monitor I have at work, but maybe it's not so noticeable at such small angles like the Apple one. I think it's more of a quality issue than a "defect".
November 27, 2007 12:41:27 PM

yeah but in Mac wonderland everything "just works" and looks lovely no matter what.

Apple: is in the business of selling idiot machines as they know the majority of the people out there barely know how to screw in a light bulb let alone set the clock on the microwave.

But when even an idiot can't get it to work properly??? who is the idiot now? lol.

ding, ding, ding.... johnny open door number two and show 'em what they've won!!!

oops nothing it's a check made out to Apple in the sum of 15 billion $$.

mmmwhahahaha.
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November 27, 2007 12:56:40 PM

The thing I find disturbing is that a company like Apple has been either censoring it's own customers complaints, or just ignoring them. From these screens, to the Seagate hard drives in the Macbooks, to the bugs in Leopard. The "alternate" company seems to be even more close minded and user unfriendly than Microsoft.
November 27, 2007 1:03:14 PM

Typical cheap LCD issue. Sounds like they used 6 bit(?) panels.

P.S.- All corporations are evil, and in my opinion, MS is the lesser of the 2 when comparing them with apple.

P.S.S. - I sure wish Linux gaming was a bit better.
November 27, 2007 1:07:53 PM

muk said:
Owners of 20 and 24 inch iMacs have reported problems with their iMac displays. Apple has not acknowledged any problems.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/27/apple_imac_display_problems_reported/index.html

Can you rotate the screen like a PC? I'd try to flip it 180 degrees to see if it's a monitor problem or a signal problem. If it's in the same area on a flip, it's the monitor.

I wonder if Apple will be adding their own little glitches to their commercials......not that I'm any fan of Vista :pfff: 
November 27, 2007 1:20:38 PM

this is a common with apple, each year they cut back on the quality on their products.

the problem with fading color has to do with the back light and the shape of the screen,

if you look at a quality LCD and a cheap one, you will see that the surface of the screen has a different shape, this shape is design ti fight against the poor vertical viewing angle of LCD's

the shape is usually like a concave mirror, this is because as you change your viewing angle, the brightness and color values also change so they design then in a way that provides the most even color possible
for the recommended viewing angle

the back light is also positioned in a way that allows for an even amount of brightness, cheaper LCD's don't have the precision in their design ass you will find in higher quality ones, the same mostly goes with apple

when you buy something prebuilt instead of building it your self, the quality is greatly reduced as the company is trying to make the max amount of profits by keeping the prices as high as possible, while reducing production cost.

most items built today are more fragile than items built 10 years ago.

and since you cant buy all the parts and build your own mac, most of the parts are coming from one place so theres no real competition for quality.

if they allowed you to install your own LCD, the quality would be better because there would be hundreds of companies all fighting to get you to pick their monitor, so if one company decided to reduce the quality, no one would buy their product as people will just buy the better quality item from their competitors

with apple, your locked into a few select companies in which they have a monopoly over the hardware and if they decide to make their crap, people are still going to buy it because thats the only company.


look at this video from the screensavers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWWB6FVNKcA

on this ancient mac, after hitting it multiple times with a steel baseball bat, he was unable to destroy the case, only break some of the plastic and put a few dents, until he opened it then the real damage started to the case try doing this with the new macs (also try doing this to the new DELL pc's just for fun)


all companies reduce their quality over time, but with apple it is more rapid since they have a monopoly
November 27, 2007 1:48:39 PM

As someone who has never liked apple b/c of their trendiness over functionality, this should be a hay day for me lately. It seems that most of my friends (non power users) prefer macs, so I have been giving them a good romping over these past issues (leopard bugs etc.)

But now its just sad! I sent my friends a battery of emails talking about all these issues and they just ignore them and talk about how great their faded screen, bugged macs are! To me thats just stupid--DON'T STAND BEHIND A COMPANY BLINDLY! If they are selling you a bad product, I dont care how much it is uncool to break the smug, give apple some hell! OR they will continue to go downhill as far as quality b/c they know their userbase will buy any crap they release!

wow-- I can't believe I just gave apple fans some advice! I must be getting old.
November 27, 2007 4:05:44 PM

The screens do not look like a "Defect" but more like a cheap screen(something apple lived on for years..guess the days of good screens are over for them....). I do not get perfect color either, but not that bad.....that could certainly put a damper on Photoshop use....

As far as it does i hope they get all the bad publicity they can.....after all there commercials are just so dumb its not even funny any more. There are lots of vista users who are happy. The first SP should smooth things over for most of the rest.

Its always nice to see mac locking there own customers threads.....As much as i do not like future shop. I am willing to bet i could bring back a mac with less hassle then the apple store...
November 27, 2007 4:33:44 PM

Why all this hostility? Why is everyone out to "bash Apple"? Did they piss in someone's Cheerios this morning?

I can understand wanting to watch out for the poor misguided consumer, but not everyone out there buys into the Microsoft Windows camp. If I am going to buy a computer for my grandmother, I am not going to buy her a Windows box that will be full of all kinds of craptastic malware within a month that I will have to clean off. Nor will I set her up with a Linux/Unix option that has her going to the CLI just to do mundane, everyday operations (she's not that kind of user). I am going to set her up with a computer that I know (a) she can use (b) I don't have to "clean up" every month and (most importantly) (c) she can call a toll free number for technical support instead of calling my cell phone.

And Apple isn't just for the unwashed computer ignorant. How many other major manufacturers can you name right off the top of your head ship a laptop that comes preloaded with Unix? Yep, OS X is BSD Unix. I can open a terminal and do anything I want to with Bash. It comes with Perl already preinstalled, as is Apache, and MySQL is installed within a few clicks (from the developer disc). And I don't have to sacrifice my iTunes catalog while I am developing.

I won't apologize for Apple. Yes, Apple has some quality issues. Just like any other large corporation, they will have them. But I rely on the knowledge that Apple also values the public perception of their company, so they will "do the right thing" and make sure that their customers are satisfied.

However terrible you may find the bugs in Leopard, they pale in comparison to the issues that Microsoft is dealing with in Vista, and Microsoft has had much longer to bring their product to store shelves than Apple. How many people who have upgraded to Leopard successfully can honestly say that it wasn't an upgrade over the previous operating system? Now, (just like me) how many people who upgraded to Vista from XP can say the same thing? I thought so...
November 27, 2007 4:50:21 PM

Quote:
Why all this hostility? Why is everyone out to "bash Apple"? Did they piss in someone's Cheerios this morning?


It is the same hostility that has been bashing Microsoft for a long time. The bashing helps people be aware of any sneaking crap that goes along with Apple or Microsoft. It is just very ironic that Apple fans are basically denying things (or being censored). The issue is to bring this to light and not allow the same thing to be repeated. It is actually helping Apple.

Quote:
Yes, Apple has some quality issues. Just like any other large corporation, they will have them. But I rely on the knowledge that Apple also values the public perception of their company, so they will "do the right thing" and make sure that their customers are satisfied.


Just like any other large corporation? We should not be taking that BS. If their values of public perception includes censoring and not taking responsibility then basically its a waste of time to wait for something good to happen.

Quote:
However terrible you may find the bugs in Leopard, they pale in comparison to the issues that Microsoft is dealing with in Vista,


Except that you have to consider that microsoft is dealing with a higher degree of variation of hardware to software interoperability and with Apple they less hardware variations to deal with.

In the end i want apple to come out and give something for everyone but they have to be slapped now before they get too cocky.
November 27, 2007 4:56:39 PM

Quote:
Why all this hostility? Why is everyone out to "bash Apple"? Did they piss in someone's Cheerios this morning?
ANY LEGITIMATE COMPANY that values its customers and doesn't want to lose future revenue will acknowledge a product defect and/or quality issue and either correct or recall the affected units.
Quote:
Apple then locked the thread,
The unmistakable signs of an emerging fascist dictatorship. We used to live in a free world, now we are being controlled by corporations. I guess when thousands of customers complain, the customer is STILL WRONG.
November 27, 2007 5:04:50 PM

I think people are badmouthing Apple because they make themselves out to be better than every other company out there in every aspect, especially quality. And this just proves that they're wrong. They ARE like every other company out there, as you've said, but they don't want you to believe it. They're finding out that they too can have problems in their software, like Microsoft, they can't have complete stability if they're going to support a broader range of software and hardware, like Microsoft, and that people WILL find ways to plant a virus on your beautiful rig as long as they have a reason to. Now they do. And it's happening. Apple refuses to admit that maybe Microsoft isn't the crappy software maker after all and if Apple wants to keep their perfect, trouble-free, user-friendly image, they're simply going to have to stop trying to take market share from Microsoft, which is bad business so they can't do that. The further forward they move, the more they look like their competitor and the fanboys out there are going to shat their pants because Apple will turn in to an equally viable option rather than the poster-child of stability and beauty. I reckon soon we'll start seeing Apple Tuesdays, service packs, and just as many articles on OS-X issues that we see about Vista or any other MS OS. Buying a computer will soon be all about interface preference. That's it. :-/

BTW they poo'd in my Coco Pebbles and now I'm pissed.
November 27, 2007 5:33:47 PM

Houndsteeth said:
Why all this hostility? Why is everyone out to "bash Apple"? Did they piss in someone's Cheerios this morning?




Have you seen a Mac tv commercial lately?


Very hard to cook in the kitchen when you can't stand the heat. LOL.
November 27, 2007 5:45:13 PM

Luscious said:
Quote:
Why all this hostility? Why is everyone out to "bash Apple"? Did they piss in someone's Cheerios this morning?
ANY LEGITIMATE COMPANY that values its customers and doesn't want to lose future revenue will acknowledge a product defect and/or quality issue and either correct or recall the affected units.
Quote:
Apple then locked the thread,
The unmistakable signs of an emerging fascist dictatorship. We used to live in a free world, now we are being controlled by corporations. I guess when thousands of customers complain, the customer is STILL WRONG.


Um, I think I addressed this. How much time do you give a company to gather consumer data, find out what the cause of the problem is, and then issue either a recall notice, or a notice for consumers to bring their computers in for repair? How much time is legitimate? Two days? A month? If the issue is serious enough to warrant a recall, I would expect Apple to do the right thing. Otherwise, the repairs/replacements would be on a case-by-case basis, and I doubt Tom's Hardware has a wide enough sampling yet to determine just what kind of job Apple is doing in taking care of their customers at this time.

And yes, they locked threads on THEIR forums hosted on THEIR servers. It's not a fascist dictatorship. It is, in fact, a point of ownership. They locked the threads. Did they delete them? So, if they aren't deleted, they are still in the forum? People have had their say, then. Who knows why their moderators locked the threads. But it is completely within their rights to lock THEIR threads on THEIR forums hosted on THEIR servers, right? If they were locking threads on someone else's forums (or taking legal action to do so) then I would have serious issues with this. But moderating their own forums? That is their legal right. Even deleting the threads are within their legal rights.
November 27, 2007 5:48:29 PM

TSIMonster said:
Typical cheap LCD issue. Sounds like they used 6 bit(?) panels.

P.S.- All corporations are evil, and in my opinion, MS is the lesser of the 2 when comparing them with apple.

P.S.S. - I sure wish Linux gaming was a bit better.


All corporations aren't evil, just the ones that have crummy products and service :)  Apple up to this point has had solid products (although I much prefer PC's for various reasons) and decent customer care. Most manufacturers, even the best, have had various problems with their products from time to time. This is nothing new. What I find troubling is the thread censorship and manipulation. Now that's evil. Shutting out your customers is never a good thing.

I also find it funny that Tom's Hardware has taken it upon themselves to destroy the Apple empire with these weekly Apple updates. Don't get me wrong, the computer industry needs the info, I just think the articles almost have a personal tone to them...which is great!
November 27, 2007 5:58:29 PM

I own one of the new 20" iMacs and haven't had any problems with the display. It looks much better than my older 19" ViewSonic LCD, and whether doing document work, photo editing or gaming, I haven't noticed any issues with image quality.
November 27, 2007 6:25:55 PM


to houndsteeth--

"How many other major manufacturers can you name right off the top of your head ship a laptop that comes preloaded with Unix"


isnt the new asus eee laptop cheaper, easy to use, and based on a linux platform? call grandma back and send her an eee! the screen might be small but its easier to see without all the congestion of smug and bad lcd screens!


buuuuuuurn.

ps. I am only playing around, it was just too easy to make this comment, hopefully you will take it as a joke.
November 27, 2007 7:35:56 PM

Houndsteeth said:

And yes, they locked threads on THEIR forums hosted on THEIR servers. It's not a fascist dictatorship. It is, in fact, a point of ownership. They locked the threads. Did they delete them? So, if they aren't deleted, they are still in the forum?


It shows that the company is unwilling to allow the community to work within itself to work out and identify issues, and have Apple interact with that community. Sure it's their forums, but the issue at hand is that Apple doesn't want any bad press for corners they have cut. It's as simple as that. "It just works." No, it really doesn't.
November 27, 2007 7:37:33 PM

Every article of Tony Celeste's I've read involve disdain for Apple products. From what I've gathered, the problems with Apple are not in-house. Rather, they stem from ATI graphics cards and inadequate Seagate hard drives (ie: nothing that Apple could have predicted).

Furthermore, the vast majority have only positive things to say about the new iMac/Macbook. However, the only thing you'll hear on internet forums is the negative. No one with a solid machine is going to waste a post extolling its greatness.

Celeste's other article, regarding Leopard, is just ridiculous (I especially love the photo-shopped blue screen on the iMac...what, couldn't reproduce it in the lab, Tony?). The issues he cites are relatively obscure, and--need I remind everyone--Leopard was released about a month ago. Why aren't there articles about Vista, which still has notable issues and was released, what, over a year ago? Is it because Microsoft incompetence is taken for granted?

I'm not bothering to write this post just because someone has dared to call Apple into question. Far from it: I understand Apple is not flawless. However, the way these articles are presented, and the fact that it's one negative after another, makes me question whether or not Tom's Hardware is operating with a bias. Given that Celeste has authored all these masterpieces, I'm inclined to believe it's a case of one hack junketeer preaching to the choir.
November 27, 2007 7:43:58 PM

i thought they said that they tested other graphics cards (not just the embedded ati) and the problem remained.

don't hate on the red!
November 27, 2007 7:47:20 PM

With an Apple, you must use stock hardware. Using other graphics cards outside of stock will create problems. Thus, if this test was conducted (which I doubt) it would prove nothing, and, if anything, make the situation more convoluted.

I'm not "hating" on ATI; they have some very nice products, especially the new HD 3870. However, everyone knows the drivers they write are crap. The drivers they wrote for Apple were doubly so.
November 27, 2007 7:48:20 PM

The Asus laptop only solves part (b). Can she use Linux? Ubuntu is getting a lot closer than just about any other distro out there, but it still is not quite there yet. At least not at the same level as OS X. Maybe as good as Windows. And I doubt that Asus is going to have a support center set up to deal with issues my granma might have with hooking up a printer to her computer, where Apple will support just about everything through AppleCare.

As for me using an Asus laptop in my work...let's just say, "I'd rather not" after having to deal with Asus on other technical issues when my mainboard went belly up last year. Took three months before I finally got an RMA finalized and returned, and that was me paying shipping both ways. I'll stick with my MacBook Pro that I can take into the Apple Store down the road and have back within three days.

For alot of the work I do, it just makes sense for me to do it all on one platform rather than hopping from Windows to Linux to Unix and back again. And Apple has made this a lot easier for me. It might not work for other folks, and to each their own. But why be bitter towards a company who has created a better product than the competition? I'm not saying perfect, but it is far and away better than any other complete product out there that is currently shipping and offering full support for their product.

And for the record, I have a water cooled E6700 running at 4.1 Ghz that I regularly play games with (crossfired X1950 XTXs, but will be upgrading to HD X3870 in the January timeframe). This is the platform I play games on. I have spent about twice as much money on this boxen than I have spent on my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro, and the work I did on the Macs has paid for all of them.
November 27, 2007 7:50:10 PM

i love how this website is ripping apart apple on every **** thing they do wrong. its great! :) 
November 27, 2007 8:01:46 PM

JJBLaanche-- Ati hasnt put out perfect drivers, but for versatility of use i will go red over green any day of the week. (and for stability too).

Hound-
Sweet rig, can't push my memory past 830mhz right now so im locked down with my 6320 @ 2.9 right now. Just got a 3870 and i like it. a lot.

Fact one- asus support sucks. Fact two-Macs generally work well. thats their reputation.

it just makes me laugh when lemming-like consumers blindly attach themselves to companies--who's sole point of being is to make a profit. This isnt bad--just life.

But when said company screws the pooch on a product then, as a consumer, you must call them out on it. Companies no longer maintain reputations based on years of solid products, as the only product that matters was the one relased today--If its good, buy it, if its bad, don't buy it.
that keeps companys putting out good products, not a loyal customer base.
November 27, 2007 9:57:42 PM

echofoxtrot said:
JJBLaanche-- Ati hasnt put out perfect drivers, but for versatility of use i will go red over green any day of the week. (and for stability too).

...

it just makes me laugh when lemming-like consumers blindly attach themselves to companies--who's sole point of being is to make a profit. This isnt bad--just life.



Do I even need to say anything?
November 27, 2007 10:23:58 PM

i have never seen an ati commercial bashing nvidia, so you can hardly justify my preference of vga cards equates to the hysteria that is mac lovers. sure you have some fanboys, but this comparison doesnt come close.

But for vga cards the hd3xxx series was a good value--and ati cards seem to retain their value beyond nvidia cards (in my opinion and experience--still have a x1900xt that can eat up some games!)

I openly admit that phenom is crap. intel is a better deal. Thats why i bought a c2d, but if you would like to draw that comparison to apple fans, then i would have bought the phenom (even though it screws the consumer at the price point) over the intel chip which is a better value.

What mac fans are demonstrating now is pure dedication to the company rather than the product--and what does that get you? the situation we are in now, with macs going downhill!

November 27, 2007 11:07:30 PM

the apple fanboys just need to face it, apply sucks just as much as microsoft and every other company,

people create companies to make money, not look out for the consumer
either way your getting screwed no matter which road you take. the only thing we can do is the the road that involves the least amount of screwing and that road is building your own PC, theres more competition in that field, and this increases quality

apple knows who the fanboys are and they know that they will buy crap because it is made by apple, so they exploit this by building low quality items with no ill effect from the fanboys because the fanboys have their face firmly placed on jobs butt.

crappy lcds is apples way of telling the customers to give us your money and leave.

their crap already costs much more than any other pc out there, the least they can do is add a better lcd

the key is to never become a fanboy of any company, never stay loyal to any brand because once you do, you just gave them the ok to lower their quality because they now think that you will continue to buy their product even at lower quality
November 27, 2007 11:11:51 PM

I was just critiquing your argument. In more than one post you laud the superiority of ATI, (ie: "i will go red over green any day of the week"), which to me seems like a "blind attachment to a company." That's all.

My point was not to turn this into a poo-flinging contest. I'm trying to call out Celeste on his obvious bias, which I think we can all agree casts a shadow on Tom's Hardware as a whole.
November 27, 2007 11:12:56 PM

Razor: If you're going to engage in a civilized discourse, at least clean up the grammar and vulgarities.
November 28, 2007 12:51:48 AM

JJ- good form! I understand what you are saying and did not mean to sound hypocritical. But my preference is based on my past selection of cards, not company fanboyism.

anyways, i agree, tom's should deliver the news in an unbiased manner as to let the reader make his/her own assumptions of the material at hand.

but being human, thats hard to accomplish 100 percent of the time. maybe celeste should write an article about how great the iphone is? to make up for all the apple bashing???

haha.

good form indeed.
November 28, 2007 1:09:26 AM

I've been reading Tom's Hardware for awhile but never felt the need to register and post a comment until now...

I generally like and rely on this site for opinions and honest reviews but Celeste's reviews are really poor journalism and completely unprofessional. It's sensationalism at it's worst.

No doubt Apple's products aren't perfect but there's is no doubt that they do make quality products... the few issues that Celeste points out seem to be overblown to me... it's like he has a personal vendetta. How about an honest review Celeste??? Especially when most reviews fall all over themselves to give positive reviews of apple products. Weak, dude.... weak.

I personally own a macbook pro and an older emac as well as a custom Red Hat rig and a Alien box. At work I administer Solaris boxes and have a Sparc station for fun!

I feel no personal affinity to any one OS or computer company but I must say that the hardware/software that gives me the least issues and actually gives me pleasure to use are my Macs.... even the old eMac! Whats wrong with having a computer that requires ZERO administration! Hell, I get PAID for that! When i get home I want a comp that doesn't give me headaches! I can connect to work or other remote servers, parallel into XP if i want or just do my internet porn thing right from 1 computer (macbook pro). Its pretty versatile!

My mac makes me happy... my other computers just perform their function.
November 28, 2007 1:26:38 AM

one of my friends has a mac book pro and it runs great, over priced compared to other laptops that have faster CPU's and more memory for the same or lower price, but it still runs well. the quality in their laptops is still at a good level, (better than some of the dell laptops I used) it seems that apple is focusing more of their time into their portable devices instead of their desktop devices

(i don't hate any companies but i hate when a company decides to screw their customers over and does nothing to help fix the problem)
November 28, 2007 1:51:13 AM

This is why AIO suck if apple had a mid-tower then people would be able to get there own screen and the mini is too weak for it's price and the macpro is over kill for a lot of uses + it is a $2200 system with a 7300gt and 1gb or ram base.
November 28, 2007 7:02:10 AM

I've been affected by a lot of Apple quality issues.

Machine bought in early September 2007 (aluminum model).

- 20" display is cheap as cheap can be: washed out gradient effect clearly visible, horribly tight viewing angles. If I stand right in front of the iMac I see every white color as a light blue. Colors shift almost constantly if I move my head even if I sit in front of the screen. The real viewing angle is more like 20 to 30 degrees and not the 160-whatever that Apple states. I went to several apple stores and ALL the 20" displays had the same issues. I don't believe for a second that there is even one 20" display that has an acceptable quality. I previously owned a white 20" iMac and there is a huge, huge difference when it comes to the display quality.

- Random freezing issues (seems to be solved with the latest updated but it took them more than 3 months...)

- After upgrading to Leopard I was unable to login and had to reinstall the hole darn thing with a "archive & install" option. It took me some days to find this solution somewhere on the internet while I was unable to use my iMac.

- Wanted to connect my USB drive in Leopard for Time Machine. When I tried to format the drive it just reported an "input/output error" and the drive was gone from the desktop. I had to format the drive on my other windows XP PC with a special Mac-Partition-Format software. Can you imagine?!

And now someone please tell me something about high Apple product quality!
November 28, 2007 10:42:05 AM

Xerodiac... interesting... you say you bought your mac in september w/ leopard... Leopard came and u waited 3 months for leopards 1st patch? Leopard came out in the middle of october. By my count the first update came out after a month, not 3. As far as the washed out issue, i have no idea, i've never looked at one of the new iMacs. If the problem was so obvious to you why didn't you return it immediately? I would have.

These issues are probably real, but I'm skeptical of that poster.
November 28, 2007 11:06:14 AM

Quote:
If the issue is serious enough to warrant a recall, I would expect Apple to do the right thing. Otherwise, the repairs/replacements would be on a case-by-case basis, and I doubt Tom's Hardware has a wide enough sampling yet to determine just what kind of job Apple is doing in taking care of their customers at this time.


Eventually Apple will be forced too, as far as Tom's sampling goes it will always be miniscule because Tom's is predominantly PC... and most of anything that paints apple in a bad light on a form they control is censored. So a timely fix is pretty much out of the question.

Quote:
And yes, they locked threads on THEIR forums hosted on THEIR servers. It's not a fascist dictatorship. It is, in fact, a point of ownership. They locked the threads. Did they delete them? So, if they aren't deleted, they are still in the forum? People have had their say, then. Who knows why their moderators locked the threads. But it is completely within their rights to lock THEIR threads on THEIR forums hosted on THEIR servers, right? If they were locking threads on someone else's forums (or taking legal action to do so) then I would have serious issues with this. But moderating their own forums? That is their legal right. Even deleting the threads are within their legal rights.


Ok so you're willing to give up your first amendment right to free speech? You have a right to say what you want to say provided you do it in a tasteful matter. I really have a hard time understanding why you so freely give up this right just to support a product / and or company. I could understand if people were posting vulgarities or flaming other users and creating havoc. That certainly wouldn't be tolerated on any form I were to control. So while it is their right to do this as time goes on it will be in their best interest to not do it anymore. The truth is the truth, if you can't handle it then your game is over. What ever happened to "The customer is always right" ??? I guess ballooning profits and a rampant runup in stock price has gone to apple's head?

Quote:
Every article of Tony Celeste's I've read involve disdain for Apple products. From what I've gathered, the problems with Apple are not in-house. Rather, they stem from ATI graphics cards and inadequate Seagate hard drives (ie: nothing that Apple could have predicted).


LOL that's a new one, apple picks and chooses what to build a machine with jacks up the price of such items and then resells them in a 1 to 3 product spread. But when things "just don't work" they blame the problem on hardware they chose to put in a system that they claim "just works". Brilliant! :lol: 

As far as Tony Celeste goes he's a journalist if there wasn't a story here you wouldn't be reading it. You shouldn't shoot the messenger. I think Tony has been more than fair with the reporting he's done on Apple. We bash Amd all day long over the Phenom release and smug little apple can't handle a small little weekly column and apple has 15Bil of your money sitting in an account. Meanwhile Amd is bleeding to death. So cry over your poor little apple all day long. You made them this way with your fanaticism.

Quote:
I'm not bothering to write this post just because someone has dared to call Apple into question. Far from it: I understand Apple is not flawless.


That's not the problem, the problem is with apple and how they view themselves. How they paint themselves compared to the competition. Nothing more than fraud if you ask me.

Quote:
However, the way these articles are presented, and the fact that it's one negative after another, makes me question whether or not Tom's Hardware is operating with a bias. Given that Celeste has authored all these masterpieces, I'm inclined to believe it's a case of one hack junketeer preaching to the choir.


If Tom's Hardware is to be believed it absolutely must tell the truth. If it's not true then give some evidence to support your claim.... How apple perceives to be the system that "just works" is by censoring what is bad with them. You do realize this is a lie. Lie by ommission is still a lie. :heink: 

Quote:
I'm not "hating" on ATI; they have some very nice products, especially the new HD 3870. However, everyone knows the drivers they write are crap. The drivers they wrote for Apple were doubly so.


Apple chose the product to put in their machine... so this is nothing more than calling the kettle black. If you put together a product and claim "it just works" then it should do that. But instead you are now saying it's 3rd party related problem. [I'm not saying it isn't.] But the claim it "just works" should be removed.

For apple to claim their product is superior to M$FT and control all aspects of how their machine is built, but yet have these kinds of problems really shows how much more superior M$FT is where M$FT is installed on 1000's of different configurations... and no wonder M$FT couldn't give a rats a$$ what poor little apple does.

Quote:
anyways, i agree, tom's should deliver the news in an unbiased manner as to let the reader make his/her own assumptions of the material at hand.


I think they have, it's very hard to write an article and paint truths when you have someone on the other end deleting everything anyone says that paints a particular product less than what it was meant to be in the first place... especially when the said product has a $mil ad campaign attacking the company that virtually controls the market. So you can clearly see what this is really about is $$$ and apple obviously doesn't feel $15 bil is enough.

Quote:
Celeste points out seem to be overblown to me... it's like he has a personal vendetta. How about an honest review Celeste??? Especially when most reviews fall all over themselves to give positive reviews of apple products. Weak, dude.... weak.


What's weak is apple censoring their forms. We probably wouldn't even be having this discussion if apple would wise up and do the right thing. I don't know about you but I think I am smart enough to decide what product I would like to buy regardless of what is said on a form about such a product. A company can't hide from the truth forever. Charma is like a beotch I once knew. :ange: 
November 28, 2007 11:19:19 AM

Douche said:
Xerodiac... interesting... you say you bought your mac in september w/ leopard...


Read again, I never wrote that I bought an iMac in September WITH Leopard. I figured that most readers get the point that I'm writing about the timeline from the purchase in september until now :sarcastic:  Freezing stopped a few weeks ago that's 3 months after the first freezing reports were published. Geez...

I was unaware of the (in my country) 10 day return policy. When I found out about it it was too late to have it returned. I could try to send it in to have the screen replaced but where's the point when every other 20" is as bad as mine. Waste of time!
November 28, 2007 11:29:43 AM

pip_seeker said:
Ok so you're willing to give up your first amendment right to free speech? You have a right to say what you want to say provided you do it in a tasteful matter.


Uhm, I don't think that's valid if you post on someone elses discussion forum. It's their house, their rules. I'm actually quite pleased of the fact that the don't close down all negative quality posts although a lot of critical posts/threads get deleted quickly. I would do the same if Apple was my company, honestly. My house, my rules.
November 28, 2007 4:55:27 PM

It's the constant bullying on the Apple forums as well. My girlfriend had that exact same Seagate problem. She shipped it back to Apple for them to repair, which they put in another Seagate drive. Of course, that drive failed as well. Thankfully this time I used good old linux to back up all her data onto a homebuild server so she didn't loose anything this time. When asking Apple about this when I brought it to her attention, she was bullied by users on those forums and then her thread was removed due to "speculation".
November 28, 2007 5:45:27 PM

if you want support for a mac, go to a real tech support site and not the apple site, their site is just full of fanboys who refuse to accept that apple screwed people over and will deny it and flame people who think otherwise

apple will remove anything that gives them any negative image, if you so much as quote something from them and put it in a way that doesnt give them a good image, they will e-mail you to take it down or face legal action

apple makes good stuff but sometimes they really go overboard with their jerkiness and screw everyone over, then using the power of their fanboys, they completely deny the whole thing
November 28, 2007 7:27:14 PM

Apple fanboys are retards! They should be ban from using any electronic devices Period!
November 28, 2007 7:42:31 PM

xerodiac said:
Uhm, I don't think that's valid if you post on someone elses discussion forum. It's their house, their rules. I'm actually quite pleased of the fact that the don't close down all negative quality posts although a lot of critical posts/threads get deleted quickly. I would do the same if Apple was my company, honestly. My house, my rules.



So it's "ok" for apple to make their product look superior and bash another product repetitively and cover up with smoke and mirrors when it "seems" their product is suffering bigger problems than the product they are repetitively bashing.

While I believe it's their right to delete hateful, bashing type posts with no merits. I don't believe these are the tactics they are employing. If things get much worse it won't be long until people wise up and stop buying.

It seems to me Apple is acting Holier than thou... which only someone with blinders on would fail to see. [-Fanboi]

Sooner or later the bed you make will be the bed you lay in. :whistle: 

November 28, 2007 8:34:44 PM

Well, I have had Apple replace a 24in unit that I initially received late october. The gradient issue was there along with backlight bleeding and a heavly yellow tint in the middle of the screen. The replacement unit arrived earlier today.
It is better but by no means as good as the previous 24in white model.
That´s the quality I was expecting. It is definitely not there. Not a single unit I have locally reviewed has an acceptable screen. The one that is currently on my desk is the best I have seen so far. The yellowish tint is reduced but still bugs the sh.it out of me as I paid 2400 Eur for the Machine and Apple prides itself on quality. With the AL screens it is just not there. I have heard of homogenous lit screens w/o gradient but couldn´t find one at retailers in a 50km radius. It´s my first Apple computer. I wasn´t looking to make any religious switch. I was intrigued by the overall package/ecosystem which I thought fitted my needs better than the monster pc I have built previously.
Right now I think the glossy glass in front of the panel is just there as some sort of visual equalizer. It makes for stunning colors and detracts from the core values of the grade b screen. I wasn´t expecting an EIZO. I was expecting quality Apple previously delivered in the white iMacs.
November 28, 2007 9:22:30 PM

Since I neither need Apple neither Windows I'm feeling relaxed reading all these articles. Nevertheless the frequency of articles published by the same author on the same subject does stick out more than the content of those articles. Maybe it's me not understanding what's going on, but I start to get bored and tend to view this as someone's crusade against a personally selected enemy.

Concerning comments about forums: members of any forum tend to be very defensive if someone suddenly stirs up commotion by questioning the quality of something, even if it's done fairly respectfully, there's always a chance that it attracts the attention of the less well behaved members who hence go berserk; the main problem being someone not being able to detach personal feelings or preferences, thus making a technical matter personal.

These unruly elements are present in every society, so there's nothing strange about having to deal with them on Internet forums. To moderate forums is a tricky task, to say the least; it's more a question of whom to make upset.
November 28, 2007 11:33:34 PM

Meh,

Nothing wrong with the Mac Monitor itself. It displays the typical characteristics of an LCD panel using a 6-bit TN panel. The poor viewing angles is a drawback of the technology itself.

The only way to avoid such problems is to skip past those cheap monitors and spend some more money on a monitor that uses a true 8-bit MVA/PVA or IPS panel technology. Doing some research is also a good idea.

TN panels have basically "infected" nearly all screen size categories because people want something big and cheap and many times you get what you pay for.

Yes there are many cases where LCD monitors are really defective, but based on that YouTube video, that 20" Mac Monitor is working within specifications. The guy should really blame himself because he clearly neglected to do his research.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who buys cheap monitors using TN panels, and then complain about them.

November 29, 2007 12:13:32 AM

Why do people knock Apple?

Trust, that's why. Faulty iPod batteries, iBook screen failures, ibook PSU overheating problems and now another set of screen problems - Apple have denied they all existed until the courts deemed otherwise - and even then, they've only been willing to rectify the problem withing the jusidiction covered by the class action. So a sucessful class action in the US wouldn't result in a recall in Europe. In fact apple would continue to insist that no problem existed.

The IBM PC took over the world by accident - and IBM stopped building PCs a couple of decades ago. This has actually been very good for consumers. Apple - who made an excellent and arguably superior product years ago - now seem to offer style and hype over quality and function.

I'm still running the same PC I built myself six years ago. True, the processor is more powerful these days, there's a flat-screen instead of a CRT, I have six times the memory I had at the start and my hard drive capacity has increased from under two hundred gig to over half a terabyte - and the graphics card has improved a little - and I'm running XP instead of 98 - but as any Pratchett fan would understand, it is still 'the thing and the whole of the thing' - the same PC I built years ago :pt1cable: 

Macs have tended to be built too small to last. Good at the time, but memory and storage capacity simply can't be upgraded enough in the face of the amount of data that users want to manipulate today. It's the oldest problem Macs have suffered from. Good machines, but no real staying power.

I am NOT knocking Macs. I'm not saying the PC is wonderful : truth is that a Mac of a given generation usually feels slicker and smoother than the corresponding average PC. The difference has always been that you could upgrade the PC a bit at a time, while the Mac would always be a straight out complete new box.

And this isn't so awful, if you can afford it. But when the new product turns out to have a major flaw which the manufacturer refuses to acknowledge until absolutely forced to - Then things become a bad joke.

I have an iPod Shuffle, which I love (except that it's just too damn small - I've put it down somwehere, and I just can't find it - honestly! :pt1cable:  ) - it's the only Apple product that I've owned since an ancient Mac desktop I had that was old back in the 80's (the pre-JPEG era. It kept running out of memory manipulating bitmap files. See what I mean?) - some of the products are really very good.

The problem with Apple is that they've changed from heroic innovators producing quality products and bucking the tide, to hype-merchants who ride the trends just ahead of the field and know how to produce attractive products - but at a premium price and with a seeming contempt for the consumer. They no longer want to please you, they just want to dazzle you and get your money.

It isn't so much that people knock the products. It's more that with DRM issues, software changes and replacements, premium prices on hardware and the occasional generic fault being blatantly ignored - the overheads associated with owning Apple products is popularly perceived as being far too high by many consumers.

It's a shame. Oh - before you flame me, or anyone else - remember this. You can have your doubts about the integrity of the company while still admitting that they've made some good products across the years.
November 29, 2007 1:45:16 AM

Honestly, this is nothing new when it comes too Apple computers. I worked as a Certified Desktop Tech for just over two years, around the time that the G4 and G5 came out. Within two months of the G5 being out, I had to repair about 6-7 brand new machines (couple hadn't even been used yet) (Five were ordered by one customer, out of those 5, 3 ended up having to be repaired) because the motherboards were fried. In six months or so of the first release of the G5, I had worked on over twenty G5's, most were less than two months old, and all were waranty repairs (so no customers did something wrong).

Now, on I-Mac's, when they went from the all in one CRT monitor form to the style they now use (round base with LCD monitor on top) there were several issues there too.

If everyone remembers when OS-X first came out (that was a long time ago, LOL) it was full of bugs and complaints, mostly because it was so different compared to OS-9 and below, and everyone had to relearn how to get around in a Mac.

Anyways, this is nothing new with Mac's, at least the ones I have seen. They always have bugs when they first release machines, but normally, and up to now, Apples weren't on the radar screen for most. (Not to mention, IMHO, no where near the amount of bugs for Win-Tel machines especially when it came to new Operating system--Windows Vista anyone?)
November 29, 2007 4:23:34 AM

Pip_Seeker,

You really are just a complete retard aren't you?! Go away, live in your fantasy land.

No ****, I'm getting sick of these purile attempts at picking on anything Apple. My list of where to start with Microsoft is so freakin' long (I'm a developer using their tools like VS 2008) it could easily crash the this site.

No please for the love of computing stop your stupid and purile campaign against apple and focus on the real issues.

Hype machines -- go suck your dick and tell me where there is hype?? These are **** based on Intel components, yes the same ****' components in your PC. Give me a break, you people are so retarded it is pathetic.
November 29, 2007 4:47:46 AM

V8VENOM said:
Pip_Seeker,

You really are just a complete retard aren't you?! Go away, live in your fantasy land.

No ****, I'm getting sick of these purile attempts at picking on anything Apple. My list of where to start with Microsoft is so freakin' long (I'm a developer using their tools like VS 2008) it could easily crash the this site.

No please for the love of computing stop your stupid and purile campaign against apple and focus on the real issues.

Hype machines -- go suck your dick and tell me where there is hype?? These are **** based on Intel components, yes the same ****' components in your PC. Give me a break, you people are so retarded it is pathetic.

That was a little too emotional don't you think?

It is a fact that Apples does like to bash "PC[anything thats not a mac]"(same damn hardware is TRUE...well i guess apples TMP chip must make all the difference in the world?)

Come on. You can say the PCs are for offices and macs are for music and blogging? and "fun stuff"....Remember pc crying its self to sleep mode? What was that. i have NEVER seen a PC that cant play music and blog.....but apple sure wanted people to think that......

People just want a computer thats intuitive and works like that do? yeah guess what for me that is Windows...

I have tried most of the other solutions(Solaris[i want to use more of this....its fast for what it is], Ubuntu, Knoppix[by far my favorite Linux] and many others too. And yes most versions of MAC OS....i remember the old PRE OS-X crashing plenty when the browser(Netscape, it DID not crash on windows 95/98) could not handle massive amounts of java. OS-X on to tiger was nothing special to me. nothing in there i can not do on windows.)

I am NOT saying mac(or Apple, IMO the old quick time, from the days of win95 was excellent and maybe even ahead of its time) is bad, but dont come in here whining about peoples opinions. Some like Apple some like Windows some like different Linuxes. Thats what makes the world go round.

back on topic. Only a few will be effected by the screens....lots of screens can be like this(all part of the LCD viewing angle..).....
!