Challenge: Build this i7 machine for less

AKM has arrived at a slightly lower price above. There are three other things you also need to consider.

1. Most of the above parts - all but the mobo, dvd writer, keyboard, and mouse - come with free shipping compared to $40 for the Dell. Most likely another $20-$30 savings to add to the $47 above.

2. If you want to purchase more than the basic system now, any upgrades cost substantially less in build your own.

Take memory. First, when I went online to Dell to find there cost to upgrade, I found the XPS 435 config for $899 – the standard package, but it shows only 3 gigs of memory. To upgrade it to the 6 you show, cost another whopping $150. How did you get the 6GB?

Nevertheless, assuming your number is correct (although I don’t know that is a good assumption) to double the memory to 12GB Dell charges and more astounding $300 – when in the build above you only have to match the memory shown for a mere $83. $300 vs $83

Or say you want to go one step up from the very primitive 4350 video card. The next step Dell offers is the 4670 for a $100 additional charge. At newegg, you can get this ASUS card for $58. Off course you then would not buy the 4350 shown above for $43, so the net increase in cost is $15. $100 vs $15. Off course you could order the system from Dell with the 4350 and throw it away and buy the $58 card from newegg and still save $42 from what you would pay Dell and only have paid $43 more than the system above.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814121274

3. Where the big savings really come though when you want to upgrade later.

Note that no PSU is listed in your configuration. Dell usually does not list one because of its relatively small size which places a severe limit on upgrading the existing system. The spec list for your sytem says it is 475w – which is large for Dell. I am guessing that AKM chose the 550w model because he thought that was appropriate for the system. Looking at what is available only with at least 475w, I would select the OCZ Modstream Pro 500w PSU for $39AR and save another $20 (pushing the totals savings to about $92 still assuming that the 6GB of memory is correct). Oh yes – that is after rebate – getting rebates is one of the things you can do when you build your own. Note that about a week ago I could have purchased the Intel i970 processor on sale at Mircrocenter for only $200 - another $80 savings.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] esult=True

A strill bigger difference comes when you try to upgrade some parts – especially the video card – and have to purchase a whole new and larger power supply – for instance pay the $59 for the 550w PSU that AKM already included.

It should also be noted that the Dell case, while more stylish - I'll give you that - comes with limits to upgradability. It has only 2 external 5.5" bays, 1 3.5" bay, and only 2 internal 3.2" HD bays, compared to the case AMK selected above with 3,2, and 4 bays respectively - 4 (or 80%) more bays not inconsequential for those using more than 2 hard drives or 3 external devices.

And the real difference comes when you want to go to a new CPU and have to replace mobo and ram. With a homebuild – you can usually do that for about $400 - $500 dollars and reuse your case, psu, operating system, keyboard, and mouse. With a Dell you cannot do those kind of upgrades. So you have to instead spend another $900 for a new system.
$900 vs $500.


So you have to consider a lot more in comparing the cost of a Dell vs. homebuild.

But for starters please explain how you got the 6GB of memory without paying the $150 additional charge shown on the Dell Site.

This link shows the basic configuration for $899 with 3 GB of memory

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/des [...] 9&ref=dthp

And this the upgrade price – if the link works with the way the work the site for customizing: [note that it opens with the first upgrade option - the processor - and you have to click on the memory icon and it will link to that piece in the upgrade window]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dells [...] io-xps-435

And by the way - I built my current system and my prior one was a Dell 8400, which I was very happy with. I purchased it new with warranty on eBay for about $300 less than it was selling for on the Dell site.

AKM880 - please accept my deepest appreciation and congratulations on your fine work here. I am very impressed and I thank you for all your time and effort. Well done! I don't see anything missing -- you've covered all the bases. Thank you.

Rockyjohn - you bring up several valid points about the advantages of homebuilding -- reuse of parts rather than repurchasing and overclocking capabilities are especially pertinent.

To answer your specific questions, the Studio XPS (hopefully that link works) I looked at starts with 3GB RAM at $749. Upgrading to 6GB is the $150 increase. I won't get into a back-and-forth about "I will change the rules and my system price is now lower" because I hate when forum posts do that and it doesn't help anyone and people just get ugly. AKM880 met the challenge and beat the price. I stand corrected. But since you did question how I got 6GB for $899 I wanted to explain how. And, you'll see that there is free shipping for that system. But yes, you are correct and I've seen this time and time again: the base price on the Dell system is the best price and you can save money by purchasing the component separately and swapping it out with the base system component. When I purchased my Latitude D600 I purchased it with a CD ROM only and then purchased the CD/DVD-RW separately because the cost of the component was less than the upgrade of the same item. Excellent point on Dell purchasing strategy.

Again, thanks for your help. I have some serious thinking to do about how to proceed but all this information is very helpful.

AKM880 did a nice job in putting together a budget i7 build. No question, I'd take it over the Dell build.

I like how the Dell build doesn't even list the PSU. That's one of the most important components in a system.

I would use the difference in price to upgrade the HD and video card.

One might think they shoudl have at least a 500w, but no, I checked the system spec and it was only 450w. To their credit, Dell does have a reputation for using fairly sturdy PSUs that people report successfully using in configurations that on paper require a larger unit. The PSU in my Dell Demension 8400 [corrected from 4800 - thanks DellUser1] was made by Delta, who has basically no reputation good or bad that I am aware of with computer folk. But they have been manufacturing batteries and electrical components for major car manufacturers for over 50 years so I think they know what they are doing. And I think Dell wisely knows the importance of PSUs and minimizes having the many problems a poor PSU can cause by speccing (is that a real word?) strong PSUs. Good design + good manufacturer = good product. Just a little smaller than many would like for upgrading. For instance again in my 4800 - I could not go beyond a 6600GT video card and even that was pushing it a little - it required a 350w to 420w power supply.

^^ W/ what video card?

Ya, it only draws ~190w on load. I don't think it would power anything much bigger.

Hehe, I'm cutting it close only 16A on the 12V rail.

I don't know how to reconcile xbitlabs saying 95w max with the listing I posted showing a 61w maximum. That gets back to what I was saying about I wish the players were more forthright - and you can add forthcoming - about power consumption.

Part of it could be measuring different things - the power consumption used "from the wall" if one is focusing on power cost vs. the load placed by the card on the PSU - the difference of course being the PSU efficiency factor which could make the "wall" amount 25% to 30% higher. Or it could be differences in specific cards, overclocking, or come from testing methods and random test variation.

I think the atomic list is generally reliable - I have seen it quoted by other reputable sources - but how reliable I don't know. In this environment I think one should never expect to precisely know their power consumption unless they measure it themselves. Also most don't seem to take into consideration that most PSUs are operate much more efficiently at 40% to 80% of capacity and outside this range the conversion efficiency of the PSU can drop significantly - up to 10-15%. The newer 80% ratings require a wider range, but even they don't require 80% at the two ends.

I think AKM880's situation is a testament to "overbuilt" Dell PSU's - and maybe a little bit of luck. Maybe he is sitting under some huge power lines and his PCU is actually pulling a little more power by inductance from the power lines. AKM - do you feel your life is a little more charged lately? Do you notice a tendency to spark in the morning? Do you wear rubber soled sneakers?

Here's a good priced BTX psu by NZXT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817116008

Here's a Dell replacement PSU made by PC Power & Cooling
http://www.pricebat.ca/PC-Power-Co [...] _10073479/

you know...just in case

Hmmm, sounds like it's time for some creative mods or a new case.

Kudos to Carl and AKM880.
Carl - looks like you started a thread with a lot of interest based on the number of views.
AKM880 - for the alternative system you designed.

Also, just wanted to let you both know that someone started a thread in Homebuilt asking about the desirability of purchasing a Dell XPS i7 system compared to BYO so I linked in this thread. That thread can be found at:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] s#t1965787

Yes, 8400, I corrected it above. Thanks.

And regarding Dell PSUs - thank you for reminding me that one has to be careful in applying lessons from the past forward - things change.

One more thing to consider when trying to upgrade a Dell is airflow. If the board (mATX or not) has the room to upgrade video cards and such, it further blocks the airflow in the case. Dell's don't usually have the greatest cooling as it is.

I'm just putting together a tech station as a temporary casae for my Dell c521. Extremely horrible airflow in the orginal slimline case.

I have the C521 (Slimline)

Can you recommend a CPU fan for this system? Also, will this memory be ok if the CPU is overclocked to 3.8GHZ?

Is there a specific model for Dark Night or is that the only one?
Was thinking of using this memory instead: OCZ DDR3 1600 tri channel

I do like the OCZ. If it fits in your budget, it's good quality RAM and is compatible with the build.

Yep, that's the cooler. It's one of the better ones.

The 4870 is a great card. No question, I'd go with the 4870 over the 9800.

Raptor - what will you be using the computer for?

If primarlily game play, you can maximize performance in your budget range - at least in the range of the designated system - by switching to an AMD II x3 or x4 build and using the savings from CPU and mobo cost to upgrade video card and perhaps CPU. If you browse some of the builds in the Homebuilt forum you will see what I mean.

AKM880 designed his system specifically to beat the Dell challenge - and since it had the i7 CPU his design also had to have it. He was not designing the best graphics system for the money.

Now is you do a lot of video editing and/or rendering - then the i7 might start to make sense.