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AWI for beginners

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November 19, 2004 1:22:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

I am a total newbie to this hobbie but not to scale modeling.
The major areas I have questioss in are the following
How do I know

which uniforms to paint the figures. ie which states represented the
bulk of the army?

Which figures to use for these regiments?

I want to create a cross section of the army so i can use it in just
about every major campaign of the war. How do i do this?


Please Help I have been trying to find information for many years
unsuccessfully.

More about : awi beginners

Anonymous
November 19, 2004 1:22:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

In article <Bg9nd.29611$KJ6.21694@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
JLC <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I am a total newbie to this hobbie but not to scale modeling.
>The major areas I have questioss in are the following
>How do I know
>
>which uniforms to paint the figures. ie which states represented the
>bulk of the army?
>
>Which figures to use for these regiments?
>
>I want to create a cross section of the army so i can use it in just
>about every major campaign of the war. How do i do this?
>
>
>Please Help I have been trying to find information for many years
>unsuccessfully.

I suggest you pick up the Canadian Wargamers Group book "Whites of their
Eyes". It has an overview of the war, uniform painting guides, battle
maps, scenarios, and a campaign guide. It uses the rules from their
companion book "Habitants and Highlanders" (French and Indian War), but
it should be easy to adapt to other rules sets.

http://www.agt.net/public/cwgroup/cwghome.html

By from Saber's Edge (prices are in Canadian $):
http://sabersedge.com/rules_nap.asp

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cwg-musket/

Cheers,

Kent

--
Kent Reuber (reuber@stanford.edu) Phone (650) 725-8092
Senior Networking Specialist Fax (650) 723-0908
ITSS 241 Panama St., Pine Hall
Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4122
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 1:22:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

HI! TRY WWW.UELAC.COM/GAZETTE (IT'S THE UNITED EMPIRE LOYALIST
ASSOCIATION OF CANADA WEBSITE) THEY HAVE BOTH
WRITTEN REFERENCES AND PICTURES FOR THE PERIOD

JLC wrote:

> I am a total newbie to this hobbie but not to scale modeling.
> The major areas I have questioss in are the following
> How do I know
>
> which uniforms to paint the figures. ie which states represented the
> bulk of the army?
>
> Which figures to use for these regiments?
>
> I want to create a cross section of the army so i can use it in just
> about every major campaign of the war. How do i do this?
>
> Please Help I have been trying to find information for many years
> unsuccessfully.
Related resources
November 19, 2004 1:43:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hello:

The AWI can be a confusing period in terms of uniforms. Finding good
references can be even harder, but it's not impossible. You need to
understand the historical documentation on uniforms and regiments of the AWI
is suspect and conjecture at times. There were many different uniforms in
use during the conflict, especially on the American side, as acquiring
suitable cloth was problematic and expensive for the colonies. If you want
to know what continental and state regiments were most prevalent during the
conflict, then check source 4 below. Same for the British, check source 3.
below. You may want to be more focused in your pursuit of building an army.
You may want to build your army around a campaign or a particular battle.
Order of Battle data is prevalent on the internet and in books - you may try
and tackle something like Saratoga or Monmouth - or something a bit smaller
like Cowpens or Ninety-Six.

I would recommend the following books to start, in order of priority, Some
are hard to find but many can be had on Ebay if you keep checking. I slowly
built up a very good selection of source material this way. These are all
out of print. Here are just a few books in my collection. If you need advice
on 15mm figures, let me know. I have an extensive American, provincial,
British, and German army. Can't help you with 25mm or above, I do not game
in this scale. Godspeed.

1. Uniforms of the Americna Revolution - John Mollo
2. The British Army in the American Revolution - Alan Kemp - Almark
Publications
3. Encyclopedia of British, Provincial, and German Army Units 1775-1783 -
Phil Katcher
4. Encyclopedia of Continental Army Units - Battalions, Regiments, and
Independent Corps - Fred Anderson Berg
5. Armies of the American Wars 1753-1815 - Phil Katcher
6. Several Osprey titles (Men-At-Arms, Campaign)




"JLC" <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Bg9nd.29611$KJ6.21694@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I am a total newbie to this hobbie but not to scale modeling.
> The major areas I have questioss in are the following
> How do I know
>
> which uniforms to paint the figures. ie which states represented the
> bulk of the army?
>
> Which figures to use for these regiments?
>
> I want to create a cross section of the army so i can use it in just
> about every major campaign of the war. How do i do this?
>
>
> Please Help I have been trying to find information for many years
> unsuccessfully.
>
>
November 19, 2004 4:35:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

At first my emphasis will be on creating all the players involved
British, Americans, and French.
Then I will learn how to game.

First step
figure out how to paint them and then which soldiers to get.
Foundry has some good examples but are confusing.

I wish I could find another gamer who did the equivilant of what I want
to do and give me a material list with guides so I can try to come up
with a plausable army.

-John c.


Kent Reuber wrote:
> In article <Bg9nd.29611$KJ6.21694@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> JLC <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I am a total newbie to this hobbie but not to scale modeling.
>>The major areas I have questioss in are the following
>>How do I know
>>
>>which uniforms to paint the figures. ie which states represented the
>>bulk of the army?
>>
>>Which figures to use for these regiments?
>>
>>I want to create a cross section of the army so i can use it in just
>>about every major campaign of the war. How do i do this?
>>
>>
>>Please Help I have been trying to find information for many years
>>unsuccessfully.
>
>
> I suggest you pick up the Canadian Wargamers Group book "Whites of their
> Eyes". It has an overview of the war, uniform painting guides, battle
> maps, scenarios, and a campaign guide. It uses the rules from their
> companion book "Habitants and Highlanders" (French and Indian War), but
> it should be easy to adapt to other rules sets.
>
> http://www.agt.net/public/cwgroup/cwghome.html
>
> By from Saber's Edge (prices are in Canadian $):
> http://sabersedge.com/rules_nap.asp
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cwg-musket/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kent
>
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 4:35:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"JLC" <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:L5cnd.2433$Tq6.24@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> At first my emphasis will be on creating all the players involved
> British, Americans, and French.
> Then I will learn how to game.

That sounds backwards to me John. Different wargame rules require different
numbers of figures, in different scales, organized differently. Most of us
pick a rule set first, and then build forces of model soldiers to play those
rules. A good way to start is to find wargamers in your town and ask to play
with them. Even if they're not playing AWI, you'll learn a lot about how to
collect and organize model armies.

> First step
> figure out how to paint them and then which soldiers to get.
> Foundry has some good examples but are confusing.

It sounds like you want to paint some figures right away :-) No harm to
that. Foundry AWI are top-of-the-line 28mm figures, kind of expensive, but
very attractive. Perry 28mm AWI are similar, they're done by the same
sculptors. Wargamers who build big armies of 28mm figures must have a lot of
time and money. Wargamers who build entire armies often work with 15mm
figures or smaller.
November 20, 2004 4:49:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

you are right that I want to start painting right away. I was thinking
along the lines of 15mm..
Let me propose this.
Suppose I am not interested in gaming at all and I just want to create a
particular diaroma of battles in the northern campaign. What would you
do then?


Irving Horowitz wrote:
> "JLC" <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:L5cnd.2433$Tq6.24@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>At first my emphasis will be on creating all the players involved
>>British, Americans, and French.
>>Then I will learn how to game.
>
>
> That sounds backwards to me John. Different wargame rules require different
> numbers of figures, in different scales, organized differently. Most of us
> pick a rule set first, and then build forces of model soldiers to play those
> rules. A good way to start is to find wargamers in your town and ask to play
> with them. Even if they're not playing AWI, you'll learn a lot about how to
> collect and organize model armies.
>
>
>>First step
>>figure out how to paint them and then which soldiers to get.
>>Foundry has some good examples but are confusing.
>
>
> It sounds like you want to paint some figures right away :-) No harm to
> that. Foundry AWI are top-of-the-line 28mm figures, kind of expensive, but
> very attractive. Perry 28mm AWI are similar, they're done by the same
> sculptors. Wargamers who build big armies of 28mm figures must have a lot of
> time and money. Wargamers who build entire armies often work with 15mm
> figures or smaller.
>
>
>
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 4:49:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"JLC" <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2pxnd.310$uV6.253@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> you are right that I want to start painting right away. I was thinking
> along the lines of 15mm..
> Let me propose this.
> Suppose I am not interested in gaming at all and I just want to create a
> particular diaroma of battles in the northern campaign. What would you do
> then?

I would figure out which battle I want to represent, because the troops'
appearence changed a lot in the course of the war. The armies on Long Island
looked very different from the armies at Saratoga, for instance. Then I'd
pick out a particular incident to model. It probably wouldn't be practical
to make a diorama of the entire battle of Long Island, but I might choose to
model the famous stand of the Maryland Regiment that saved the Patriot army.
Then research what units were involved in that action, what they looked like
at that time, and details of the terrain. Then I'd figure out how to scale
it down into a practical model (say, represent the Marylanders with a 6
inch, two-rank line, that'll take about 40 infantry figures plus a few
officers). Then I'd track down usable figures, and I'd finally be ready to
start painting.

-or-

Maybe I already have an idea in mind of what I want the diorama to look
like. Maybe I want a diorama of Patriot militia and Hessian Jaegers
skirmishing in woods. Or maybe I want a bayonet charge between red-coated
British regulars and blue-coated Continentals. Then I'd look for an incident
from the war that meets the requirements I have in mind. Then research what
units were involved, etc and proceed as above.

-or-

Maybe I'd just build a diorama that pleases me, and not worry whether it
represents a particular historical incident or any units' documented uniform
on any given day. (Heresy!) This is a hobby, they're just toy soldiers, and
the main thing is to please yourself in your all-too-scarce leisure time.

But I don't mean to belittle striving for historical accuracy. We're mostly
historical twitchers (erm, I mean modellers) on this board, and if you want
to know what pattern underwear was issued to the 97th Foote on June 19,
1779, we'll help you find out.

So, what do _you_ want to do, John?
November 20, 2004 7:17:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

I really want buld an army focused on the New York To New Jersey
Campaigns. From what you have tought me and from what I have read each
year the army seemd to be clothed differently...

As far as specific battles
Monmouth
Deleware crossing
Trenton
Princetion

ect..

Creating an army that I could use in all these campaigns instead of
creating specific units taht I could use in only one of these battles






Irving Horowitz wrote:

> "JLC" <jcvmf214@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:2pxnd.310$uV6.253@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>you are right that I want to start painting right away. I was thinking
>>along the lines of 15mm..
>>Let me propose this.
>>Suppose I am not interested in gaming at all and I just want to create a
>>particular diaroma of battles in the northern campaign. What would you do
>>then?
>
>
> I would figure out which battle I want to represent, because the troops'
> appearence changed a lot in the course of the war. The armies on Long Island
> looked very different from the armies at Saratoga, for instance. Then I'd
> pick out a particular incident to model. It probably wouldn't be practical
> to make a diorama of the entire battle of Long Island, but I might choose to
> model the famous stand of the Maryland Regiment that saved the Patriot army.
> Then research what units were involved in that action, what they looked like
> at that time, and details of the terrain. Then I'd figure out how to scale
> it down into a practical model (say, represent the Marylanders with a 6
> inch, two-rank line, that'll take about 40 infantry figures plus a few
> officers). Then I'd track down usable figures, and I'd finally be ready to
> start painting.
>
> -or-
>
> Maybe I already have an idea in mind of what I want the diorama to look
> like. Maybe I want a diorama of Patriot militia and Hessian Jaegers
> skirmishing in woods. Or maybe I want a bayonet charge between red-coated
> British regulars and blue-coated Continentals. Then I'd look for an incident
> from the war that meets the requirements I have in mind. Then research what
> units were involved, etc and proceed as above.
>
> -or-
>
> Maybe I'd just build a diorama that pleases me, and not worry whether it
> represents a particular historical incident or any units' documented uniform
> on any given day. (Heresy!) This is a hobby, they're just toy soldiers, and
> the main thing is to please yourself in your all-too-scarce leisure time.
>
> But I don't mean to belittle striving for historical accuracy. We're mostly
> historical twitchers (erm, I mean modellers) on this board, and if you want
> to know what pattern underwear was issued to the 97th Foote on June 19,
> 1779, we'll help you find out.
>
> So, what do _you_ want to do, John?
>
>
>
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 6:07:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Hi:
You wrote:
>I really want buld an army focused on the New York To New Jersey
>Campaigns. From what you have tought me and from what I have read each
>year the army seemd to be clothed differently...
>
>As far as specific battles
>Monmouth
>Deleware crossing
>Trenton
>Princetion
>
>ect..
You must be aware that even the apearance of troops on the battlefield will
change. The Monmouth Army benefited from Von Steuben's Drill and had probably a
greater percentage of blue coated Contintentals and State troops. For example,
John Glover's Marblehead mariner regiment would look a lot difference
(including the fact that at Trenton most were armed with gaffing hooks and
pikes) from the poorly dressed land lubbers that made up the rest of the army.
Glover's men would not be there for Monmouth which was according to most
interpretations a draw.

If I were doing a diorama there might be several "choice" scenes. First, at
Trenton you might have the advance into the village while Hessian troops
hastily attempted to form up. A second choice might be to have Washington
taking command at Monmouth or having Wayne's advance guard confront the British
rear guard. A confrontation between two firing lines standing forty yards apart
and blazing away might be a powerful image particularly if you choose to add
casualties on the ground or actually at the moment of being hit which are
available from Old Glory.

Hope these thought help. Good luck and enjoy your painting.
jerry
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 4:07:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

"MltryHstrn" <mltryhstrn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120100725.06183.00000553@mb-m27.aol.com...
> Hi:
> You wrote:
>>I really want buld an army focused on the New York To New Jersey
>>Campaigns. From what you have tought me and from what I have read each
>>year the army seemd to be clothed differently...
>>
>>As far as specific battles
>>Monmouth
>>Deleware crossing
>>Trenton
>>Princetion
>>
> If I were doing a diorama there might be several "choice" scenes. First,
> at
> Trenton you might have the advance into the village while Hessian troops
> hastily attempted to form up. A second choice might be to have Washington
> taking command at Monmouth or having Wayne's advance guard confront the
> British
> rear guard. A confrontation between two firing lines standing forty yards
> apart
> and blazing away might be a powerful image particularly if you choose to
> add
> casualties on the ground or actually at the moment of being hit which are
> available from Old Glory.

Listen to Jerry. Truth is, my interest in the AWI is mainly in frontier
warfare, and I have only limited knowledge of the main armies' campaigns in
the east. Um, the Delaware crossing and battle of Trenton occurred in the
winter, after a long, losing campaign. The Continentals at that time were
awfully ragged, and their rags bundled up in whatever greatcoats, blankets,
mufflers, etc. they could get hold of to keep warm. If you want to see
pretty uniforms, pick a battle where the weather was better. Maybe Monmouth
would be your best choice.
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 8:21:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

>HI! TRY WWW.UELAC.COM/GAZETTE (IT'S THE UNITED EMPIRE LOYALIST
>ASSOCIATION OF CANADA WEBSITE)

It's actually www.uelac.org/

Good Luck.

Mike
November 24, 2004 3:28:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Some general questions
When we think of the Continental Army what do most of us think about?
Which time period of the revolution is most depicted in miniature?
Why are their not instructios on how to paint such an army?


I read the book Washington's Crossing and the army really didn't start
to form until after the actual crossing of the deleware. There was a
general uprising from all over the state of NJ. It would seem to me to
paint and create an army after the battles of NJ. Like you stated when
the uniforms become more recognizable in the traditional continental
blue. I have learned so much from this one book. I am going to continue
reading for more clues.


The real problem is not what really to paint them but what time period
to depict.

MltryHstrn wrote:
> Hi:
> You wrote:
>
>>I really want buld an army focused on the New York To New Jersey
>>Campaigns. From what you have tought me and from what I have read each
>>year the army seemd to be clothed differently...
>>
>>As far as specific battles
>>Monmouth
>>Deleware crossing
>>Trenton
>>Princetion
>>
>>ect..
>
> You must be aware that even the apearance of troops on the battlefield will
> change. The Monmouth Army benefited from Von Steuben's Drill and had probably a
> greater percentage of blue coated Contintentals and State troops. For example,
> John Glover's Marblehead mariner regiment would look a lot difference
> (including the fact that at Trenton most were armed with gaffing hooks and
> pikes) from the poorly dressed land lubbers that made up the rest of the army.
> Glover's men would not be there for Monmouth which was according to most
> interpretations a draw.
>
> If I were doing a diorama there might be several "choice" scenes. First, at
> Trenton you might have the advance into the village while Hessian troops
> hastily attempted to form up. A second choice might be to have Washington
> taking command at Monmouth or having Wayne's advance guard confront the British
> rear guard. A confrontation between two firing lines standing forty yards apart
> and blazing away might be a powerful image particularly if you choose to add
> casualties on the ground or actually at the moment of being hit which are
> available from Old Glory.
>
> Hope these thought help. Good luck and enjoy your painting.
> jerry
>
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 3:28:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

One of the problems is that most wargamers actually believe that the
Continental are actually had uniforms, and are unwillng to accept that for
the most part, much of this army wore civilian clothing with mixed uniform
parts.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:44:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.historical (More info?)

Mike Hillsgrove wrote:

> One of the problems is that most wargamers actually believe that the
> Continental are actually had uniforms, and are unwillng to accept that for
> the most part, much of this army wore civilian clothing with mixed uniform
> parts.

Mike's right. Uniforms??? what uniforms?

The USA had no money and poor credit. Very unlikely any entire unit was
"Uniform" The same could be said of some of the French armies of the
Napoleonic Period as well. This really isn't anything new. Folks did
the best they could and improvised when they couldn't.

Still creating the fiction of uniformed Continentals isn't all bad
either. Hard to find those armed civilian figs. ;-)

mjc
!