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need a reccomendation on a 24'(maybe a 2408WFP but no input lag?)

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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June 30, 2008 10:43:21 PM

I'd like to get a widescreen LCD that I can use for regular computer use as well as:
PC Gaming via DVI-D or HDMI
Xbox 360/PS3 Gaming via HDMI and/or Component Cables
Wii Gaming via Component Cables

vga and composite woudl be nice as well. also, is it possible to use a monitor as a TV? if so how?

I first had my eyes on this Westinghouse model:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E168...

but the consumer reviews turned me off (power failures) and eventually it became a deactivated item.

I then turned to this Gateway monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E168...

But upon seeing it in person at a Best Buy I didn't like the colors (lots of bleeding), text wasn't sharp and the overall picture wasn't crisp.

Finally, someone recommended me this expensive Dell monitor:
DELL ULTRASHARP 2408WFP
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/pr...

And I was certain I'd get this one, but now upon reading the Dell forums many people experience problems with this model and and has a lot of input lag for gaming...

What to do? It almost seems to me that my idea of a versatile and good-looking monitor is just wishful thinking and there really is no excellent monitor with a good, 24" inch panel with 1080p support and HDMI/Component/VGA/Composite ports. I just want something that is good at everything! Also, the pivot thing is nice as well.

I have a few questions as well.
1. 1:1 pixel mapping? and how necessary is it?
2. What is picture in picture? is it necessary?
3. What is the difference between the different kinds of LCDs like TN and whatever?

So in short, I want something that has vivid colors, good viewing angles, low lag...everything.

Thanks


a b C Monitor
June 30, 2008 10:51:21 PM

The 2408 looks absolutely stunning. I cant say enough good about it. As for input lag? I know that was a problem with the 2407, but the 2408 isn't bad at all. Slight, perhaps, but IMO worth it for the incredible color and resolution. I've played through Bioshock and Crysis on one, and it definitely didn't hinder me in any way (actually, the phenomenal color and resolution helped). I would go for it.
a c 195 C Monitor
July 1, 2008 12:33:31 AM

All LCD monitors suffers from some level of input lag generally ranging from about 12 frames to as many as 50 frames. In general, the higher the resolution, the greater the input lag because of more pixels to push.

If you absolutely do not want input lag at all then stick to CRT.

That Gateway sucks because it uses a TN panel. See my posts in the following thread:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/53818-3-should-monitor-monitor


1:1 pixel mapping :

If you are playing a less than full resolution then image quality will suffer a little bit because of pixel position interpolation. For example, if you play try to play Crysis at native (full) resolution on a 24" monitor you will basically have a slide show even with XFire or SLI. To play the game at a decent frame rate, you need to drop your resolution to 1440 x 900 and probably use med instead of high settings. Without 1:1 pixel mapping the viewable playing area will fill the entire screen, but images will not look very sharp.

A monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping (when activated) the tell the monitor to use the exact resolution sent by the game thru the video card. Therefore on a 24" LCD the playing area will be exactly 1440 x 900 and be surrounded by a black/gray border. The viewable playing area is less than the size of the screen, but the image will look very sharp.

Picture In Picture:
Generally for TVs where you can watch two channels at the same time, the second channel (or video source like DVD) will be viewable in a small box. Not really found on any PC LCD monitor that I know of.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To answer your last question: Nothing

LCD is a technology based on compromise. You must give up something to get something. There is no LCD monitor perfect enough to be comparable to an average CRT monitor in terms of color accuracy, image scaling, viewing angles, zero input lag. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

My monitor (NEC LCD2689WUXi; based on IPS panel tech) is considered to one of the best monitors for color accuracy and overall image quality. However, it is not the best for gaming because it has about 30 - 34 frames of input lag; but ghosting is minimal. While good for watching movies it is not the best. Monitors built around the less expensive S-PVA and P-MVA panels (more expensive than TN panel tech) are generally considered better for watching movies than IPS panels. It lacks the video input options you are looking and lastly it sells for $1,300+.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My suggestions:

1. List everything you are looking for in a monitor.
2. Split that list into
a) Must have
b) Would be nice
3. Set a realistic budget to get something that will fit your needs. In general, I would recommend $800, but that depends on how much you are willing to spend.
4. Set aside time to do research. Over a period of 9 months I probably spent around 50 hours of research before buying my monitor. Yeah a bit excessive, but I was looking at monitors ranging from 22" LCDs (which I basically dropped since all of them very based on TN panels) all the way thru 28" LCD monitors.
5. Visit www.Hardforum.com which has a very active "Display" sub-forum. This particular LCD forum is considered dead compared to Hardforum.com.
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a b C Monitor
July 1, 2008 4:12:58 AM

Jaguar: People can spout all they wish about color accuracy, but I have yet to see a CRT as accurate on colors as a Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP when properly calibrated. Of course, it also flattens most normal LCDs in the color department too (most LCD's are worse than CRT's)
July 1, 2008 6:43:36 AM

I actually heard the 2408 was worse with the lag 0_0

So are you saying all TN moniters are crap? (you said the gateway is bad because it is TN) Are there any good 24" S-PVA panel monitors?

Response Time 5ms / 2ms(GTG)

This BenQ G2400WD (G2400W??...whats the difference between W and WD?) looks pretty solid and has gotten good reivews so far. I heard the colors are alot better than most TN panels. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... But what does it mean by having 2 response times? what does gtg mean?

with pixel mapping, couldn't you just run the game in a window and you would get the same effect?

"While the currently shipping Dell 2408WFP monitor meets both Dell and industry standard specifications, we have been closely listening to your feedback on the Dell Community Forum. Based on your comments, Dell is working to incorporate a number of improvements into the 2408WFP as a firmware update for new monitors scheduled to ship in mid-July. This firmware update features greater control over sharpness settings, improved power save recovery, and less input lag. Current 2408WFP owners whose specific usage scenario may benefit from the firmware update should contact Dell Technical Support after Mid July to receive the firmware update. If you have any questions please feel free to post them here or contact Dell Technical Support."

so this A01 or A02 update or whatever will fix all the issues. I might jsut get it if it lower the input lag alot. It seems pretty promising. So this is completely a firmware update...not a hardware update right? When will we officially see the updates in action?
July 1, 2008 7:11:25 AM

possibly might get the KDS K-2626mdhwb - 26" LCD as it seems like its the same as the Benq but bigger lol. any opinions on those 2? http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1304046 looks pretty good

but i might even get the dell if the revision fixes the lag to a reasonable level.
a b C Monitor
July 1, 2008 7:33:34 AM

It certainly wasn't enough lag for me to significantly notice

YMMV though. Plus, I didn't have that long messing around with it - mostly, I was trying not to drool at the stunning color and clarity.

And yes, anything having to do with input lag should be primarily a firmware revision, not hardware.
July 2, 2008 8:22:02 PM

yeah, i guess its different for everyone. the hardcore fps players would definitatly notice while the more casual gamer wouldn't.

Does anyone know why alot of moniters show 2 response times as in this ?
"5ms, 2ms(GTG)"
a b C Monitor
July 2, 2008 9:58:08 PM

Different ways of measuring it. Most monitors have varying response time, depending on what the starting and ending shades are. GTG is grey to grey, meaning the response time to shift from one shade of grey to another. The 5ms may be a typical over a broader range, it may be white to black, it's impossible to say without a more detailed spec.
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