[40k] 'nid bustin' 1500pt marine army any help appreciated

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"Lattes" <bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:b8ednQMwcY3T4EjcRVn-qQ@rogers.com...
> Here is what I have come up with, any suggestions would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> HQ:
> Leader + Storm Bolter
> = 35pts
> Troop:
> 2x 5 man squad w/ H Bolter & Plasma gun, mounted in Razorback w/
> Twin HB hunter killer missle, pintle storm bolter, extra armor &
> smoke launchers
> = 378pts Fast:
> 3x 3 tornado speeder squads w/ assault cannon
> = 720
> Heavy:
> 1x Predator Destructor w/ Spon. HB, Pintle Storm Bolter, Extra Armor
> & Smoke = 128
> 1x Predator Destructor w/ Spon. HB, Extra Armor & Smoke = 118
> 1x Vindicator Assault Tank = 120
>
> Total: 1499

Consider taking more troops and less vehicles. You've totally maxed
out on your Heavy and Fast Attack slots and only have 2 minimal Troop
selections (who are also in vehicles). This all smells a little like
a processed dairy food product to me and probably won't produce the
desired affects.
Just my $0.02.
--
b
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org - don't read it at your own peril

"Flee, the Stoic Riders of Saim-Hann are upon us!
Our bolters are no match for their good posture!" -- Blue Raja

"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
were weak and stupid people--and that's why
we have wolves and other large predators."
-- Gary Larson, The Far Side

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <b8ednQMwcY3T4EjcRVn-qQ@rogers.com>, Lattes,
bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com Varfed out the following in Timo
speak...
> Here is what I have come up with, any suggestions would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> HQ:
> Leader + Storm Bolter
> = 35pts
>
Decent - not over the top with wargear and designed to shoot nids.
> Troop:
> 2x 5 man squad w/ H Bolter & Plasma gun, mounted in Razorback w/ Twin HB
> hunter killer missle, pintle storm bolter, extra armor & smoke launchers
> = 378pts

First up - loose the HK missle. Next up, do you really even need the
smoke? It's not as if in 1500 point game the Nid player is going to be
packing enough shooty fire power to make it seriously worth the points.

Next up - you have far *FAR* to few troops. As a Nid player, I can tell
you there are few things more annoying that a 10 strong Tac squad with a
Rhino. The humble bolter does bad baddddd things to the nids - even
some of the larger and more expensive critters. To quote RTM...

"You're the Nids! You *don't get* armor saves."

>
> Fast:
> 3x 3 tornado speeder squads w/ assault cannon
> = 720

For 3 assault cannons, that's a 'stupid high' points cost to pay
in a 1500 pt game. Particularly for a set of units that *are* far more
fragile and vulnerable to masses of weak fire than the Razorbacks you're
worried about armoring to death above.. I'd concentrate my fire on
those as a bug player knowing I'd have a reasonable chance of hurting
them vs the Razors, and they're expensive. Then there's gaunts. A unit
of twenty strong at 2 attacks, plus 1 on the charge (and we're talking
about a unit that moves 6 inchs +D6 inchs + 12 inch charge) and you're
looking at facing 90D6 rolls to hit in a single round... I'd take those
odds as a Nid player. You're looking at something like 15 hits, plus if
any of them are rending claw mutants they'll get to add an extra d6 to
the strength of the attack.

If you're dying for the assault cannons - take Dreads. Far better in
terms of cost and survivability. It's not like you really want to close
rapidly with the bugs (which is what speeders are ideal for) - at which
point Dreads are a better option.

>
> Heavy:
>
> 1x Predator Destructor w/ Spon. HB, Pintle Storm Bolter, Extra Armor &
> Smoke = 128
>
> 1x Predator Destructor w/ Spon. HB, Extra Armor & Smoke = 118
>
> 1x Vindicator Assault Tank = 120
>
> Total: 1499
>
> I am kind of unsure about my heavy choice of a vindicator but that ord.
> blast sure does cover a lot of area and a 10 strength makes for a hell
> of an easy wound roll against just about any of thier units. Real pain
> in the ass is the hive tyrants, carnifices & old one eye with a
> toughness of 6 b/c it is impossible to cause instant death. OTOH one
> squad of speeders can probably take out any of those in one turn.
>
> Normally I take attack bikes instead of speeders but against 'nids I
> like the fact that they need a 6 to hit in HTH.


Good grief! What, does this Nid player typically field - an all Elite &
Carnie army? I'd say you're way way to heavy in the elites and
particularly the Heavy field. Loose at least one of the Preds and
probably the smoke as well on the remaining one as well. The Vindicator
is probably overkill in a 1500 pt game as well. Try a unit of Devastors
with some 'expendable' marines shields. A pair of Las & Plasma or Rkt
Launcher & Plasma does bad things to both large bugs and massed groups -
Particular the RKT & Plasma combo.

In short - you need a lot more dakka and a lot less elite and heavy slot
choices. You've got a lot of heavy fire power, which will potentially
multch his big stuff, but not enough *volume of fire* to deal with both
big stuff and hordes of stealers (which do a great can-opener routine on
Land Raiders) and rending claw mutants mixed into gaunt and gant units.

Myrmidon

--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.

- Eric Noland

# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army

- Roy Cox

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gwprice/

****

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm

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"Myrmidon" <ImNot@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c412008333f19298a425@news-server.woh.rr.com...
>
> In short - you need a lot more dakka and a lot less elite and heavy
> slot
> choices. You've got a lot of heavy fire power, which will
> potentially
> multch his big stuff, but not enough *volume of fire* to deal with
> both
> big stuff and hordes of stealers (which do a great can-opener
> routine on
> Land Raiders) and rending claw mutants mixed into gaunt and gant
> units.

Since we're talking adding marines and subtracting vehicles, a
Deathwatch Kill Team might be another option to look at for HQ. They
get some nifty basic options (different types of ammo) and a special
HB option with Hellfire rounds.
I agree with using Devastators (4ML). They should put a major hurting
on big stuff or hordes. If you're dead set on having vehicles/tanks,
consider taking 1 or 2 Whirlwinds. While weaker in strength than the
Vindicator's Demolisher Cannon, it's much cheaper and has twice the
range and it still uses the Ordnance Template. You can plink away
from 48", usually all game long.
9 Dev's with MLs and 2 WW only costs 365 points; still plenty left for
troops if you drop all those 'speeders.
--
b
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org - don't read it at your own peril

"Flee, the Stoic Riders of Saim-Hann are upon us!
Our bolters are no match for their good posture!" -- Blue Raja

"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
were weak and stupid people--and that's why
we have wolves and other large predators."
-- Gary Larson, The Far Side

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

In article <piLBd.12506$Gj2.4473@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, fog,
fog@bellsouth.net Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> "Myrmidon" <ImNot@home.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c412008333f19298a425@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> >
> > In short - you need a lot more dakka and a lot less elite and heavy
> > slot
> > choices. You've got a lot of heavy fire power, which will
> > potentially
> > multch his big stuff, but not enough *volume of fire* to deal with
> > both
> > big stuff and hordes of stealers (which do a great can-opener
> > routine on
> > Land Raiders) and rending claw mutants mixed into gaunt and gant
> > units.
>
> Since we're talking adding marines and subtracting vehicles, a
> Deathwatch Kill Team might be another option to look at for HQ. They
> get some nifty basic options (different types of ammo) and a special
> HB option with Hellfire rounds.

For that matter there's the Nid Hunter type Ultra Marine units in
the new SM codex. Hadn't really thought of beefing up an entire HQ
unit, but as it stands now, anything is better than the maxed out Heavy
Support and Fast Attack (and not elites like I was thinking) slots.

> I agree with using Devastators (4ML). They should put a major hurting
> on big stuff or hordes. If you're dead set on having vehicles/tanks,
> consider taking 1 or 2 Whirlwinds. While weaker in strength than the
> Vindicator's Demolisher Cannon, it's much cheaper and has twice the
> range and it still uses the Ordnance Template. You can plink away
> from 48", usually all game long.

> 9 Dev's with MLs and 2 WW only costs 365 points; still plenty left for
> troops if you drop all those 'speeders.

Not to mention the points from one of the Preds, and the Vindy as
well...

He's seriously top heavy when he needs some good solid fire support tac
squads, one or (better still) two dev squads and perhaps an assault
squad for counter charge work. As a Nid player, I hate Marine Dev
squads as much or more than most vehicles - though Whirlwinds, Basilisk,
and Leman Russ rank right up there.

--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.

- Eric Noland

# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army

- Roy Cox

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gwprice/

****

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Myrmidon" <ImNot@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c412008333f19298a425@news-server.woh.rr.com...

> Good grief! What, does this Nid player typically field - an all Elite &
> Carnie army?

Sounds like my new Nid army (see [40K] A Tale of RGMW Gamers thread). So as
a seasoned Tyranid player do you have any good advice for someone starting
up a bug army that I'll ignore?


--

-smithdoerr

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Fighting nids is one of those occaisons it really pays to have the
basic grunts around. Forget your expensive tanks with mega weapons of
doom, or massed heavy weapons. What you really want for taking out
massed gaunts is 10 guys with bolters! Shoot until they get close, then
move in and rapid fire. Take at least 3 squads and they will really
deal out some pain. And 30 marines is what? 450 points? Also, massed
infantry (at least marine massed infantry) has more chance of lasting
it out in HTH with whatever does get there, it has real staying power
and can't be lost to one lucky shot.

You'll need some anti tank stuff too to take out the big guys. These
are often upgrade to a 2+ save in my experience so lascannons work
best. Predator anihilators are good for this - cheap massed lascannons.


BTW, have you cleared this with your opponent? My group frowns heavily
on "cheesing up" an army to fight the person you are currently playing
against. Instead we take balanced tourny armies that are capable of
fighting anyone. Of course, if your group does it differently fair
enough but your opponent might be somewhat upset if he comes along to a
friendly game and finds your custom design army of nid doom waiting for
him.

Rykk

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

> BTW, have you cleared this with your opponent? My group frowns heavily
> on "cheesing up" an army to fight the person you are currently playing
> against. Instead we take balanced tourny armies that are capable of
> fighting anyone. Of course, if your group does it differently fair
> enough but your opponent might be somewhat upset if he comes along to a
> friendly game and finds your custom design army of nid doom waiting for
> him.
>

We always know who/what we are going to fight so each player gets to
'cheeze up' thier army.

The idea is that in 'reality' one would know who they are going to be up
against and have the opportunity to send an army accordingly. (ok, so
40k is to a realistic representation of futuristic war as tom & jerry
are to a realistic representation of cat/mouse politics)

The only time we don't do this is if we are playing combat patrol games
which again is for 'reality' sake.