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What is YOUR ideal gaming space?

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Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 14, 2005 2:16:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

So the time is almost at hand for me to sell my current business and
move along to other things.

I have been thinking about opening up a games only store, basically
carrying GW, Wizards, Wizkids & other Role Playing gear. Little or no
comics (maybe some trade paperbacks)

To be honest it isn't going to be about making tons of money as I will
have a reasonable size chunk of change from the sale of my business as
well as funds that I have saved up.

What I am really more interested in doing is making at least half the
store gaming area, some small comfortable nooks regular customers to sit
down and roleplay with some friends and a bunch of tables for tabletop
games. Of course there will be tournaments and regular gaming nights but
I would like to have at least 6 tables set up so you would be able to
come and play your own games with a couple of friends or strangers if
you like.

I want to build a community around the whole thing, have a place for
people from 12 to 60 to get together and play and talk and enjoy
themselves.

SO.... my question to all of you is:

What would YOU want to see in a space like this. What is YOUR ideal
gaming space?

Later
d

More about : ideal gaming space

Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 14, 2005 7:47:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Lattes" <bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:YqWdneX4daX2bXrcRVn-rQ@rogers.com...

> SO.... my question to all of you is:
>
> What would YOU want to see in a space like this. What is YOUR ideal
> gaming space?
>
> Later
> d

There's a great gaming store near me, Pandemonium Games, which has a huge
play area. I'll try to share some of their positives:
1) Space. They have a huge building, divided into a retail area and two
large gaming rooms. The front room is used for Magic tournaments and casual
play of all sorts, while the back room is for Warhammer Rogue Traders. By
Large I mean easily 30 gaming tables. Clearly, the amount of space you have
depends on rents in your location, and what buildings are available. Even
in a smaller space, though, you can create enough gaming tables for casual
place or small tournies.

2) Used Minis. They buy used stuff and then sell it back at a buck a
piece for plastics, two for metals, and maybe 4 for characters (all US
prices) Given time and patience, one could assemble an entire army from the
used bins. They also keep Codices and Army Transporters in the used
section.

3) Hours: They're open 2pm-midnight, which fits gamers schedules perfectly.

4) Vending Machines at reasonable prices

5) All kids under 14 must have an adult with them after 6pm. It sounds
unfair, but it's a great rule for those of us over 14....


There's a couple of Ideas I'd add:

Find a person you likes running Tournaments, be they CCG, Tabletop, etc.
Ideally, you could pay him/her in store credit to run your tournies. It can
be tough to find a hard core gamer with the time, talent and drive to run
two or three tournies/leagues a week, but having that steady, planned gaming
available makes your store a more reliable place to find a game, and most
store owners I've know didn't have the time or inclination to run leagues or
RTTs.

I'd also offer "starter kits" to various games, preferably at a reduced
price. This makes an easy sell to people starting out, especially if it's
stuff they can actually use. For example: buy a DM's guide and Players
handbook and get free dice, or Buy a Space Marine Battle Box and Codex and
get a free Commander. Obviously you want to assure your profit, but the
sheer overwhelming choice often slows down gamers from buying into a game,
and affects their parents even more so.

Offer to demo any game in the store, at least during slow periods. I feel
more comfortable buying a game after I've played it then before. Also, try
hard to support any games you stock with open play, leagues, etc.

It sounds like you're really trying to create a pleasant place to game.
Best of luck,

Karyth Teel
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 14, 2005 8:44:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

On 1/14/05 11:16 AM, in article YqWdneX4daX2bXrcRVn-rQ@rogers.com, "Lattes"
<bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> To be honest it isn't going to be about making tons of money as I will
> have a reasonable size chunk of change from the sale of my business as
> well as funds that I have saved up.
>
<obligatory>
How old are you? Are you married? Do you want to be?
Most importantly - do you play fantasy?
>
> What would YOU want to see in a space like this. What is YOUR ideal
> gaming space?

Unless "coffee shop" has a different meaning downunder, I'd suggest a snack
bar would be better. Coffee is sort of an old folks drink and anyway, snack
bars have coffee.

janet
--
Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead
Related resources
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 14, 2005 8:44:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Janet Quick wrote:

> Unless "coffee shop" has a different meaning downunder, I'd suggest a snack
> bar would be better. Coffee is sort of an old folks drink and anyway, snack
> bars have coffee.
>
> janet

Whereabouts do you live? I ask because in the US, that's definitely not
true in my experience. Every cafe and coffee shop I've been to has been
packed with college students and younger professional types.

Diners, now, that can be another story....
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 14, 2005 11:30:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Janet Quick wrote:
> And you see young professionals as gamers? College students, yes - but not
> the ones who hang out at coffee houses.

Well, in the Bay Area, it's more likely, I suppose... maybe not
everywhere else.

> When I hear, coffee shop, I think of Starbucks.
<snip>
> Café is different. Yes, a café would do well I think.

Ah well, there you go. I wasn't distinguishing between a café and a
coffeehouse.

> So what I mean is a snack bar where you can get a variety of beverages,
> sandwiches maybe, gum, candy ...stuff kids will pick up with their few
> dollars while adults can sit down and sip coffee and maybe read a book.

That's definitely a good idea. My gaming buddies and I prefer stores
that not only have gaming space, but sell sodas and munchies.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 15, 2005 11:10:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Out from under a rock popped Lattes and said
[snip]
> What I am really more interested in doing is making at least half the
> store gaming area, some small comfortable nooks regular customers to
> sit down and roleplay with some friends and a bunch of tables for
> tabletop games. Of course there will be tournaments and regular gaming
> nights but I would like to have at least 6 tables set up so you would
> be able to come and play your own games with a couple of friends or
> strangers if you like.
>
> I want to build a community around the whole thing, have a place for
> people from 12 to 60 to get together and play and talk and enjoy
> themselves.

I don't think you do anyone any favours by not being profitable.
Believe me it's a real pain in the arse not having a local gaming store
because the owner's can run a business to save their lives. Most of the
places here that still carry RPG stock do as a side line to comics. I
went to visit the one historical\RPG shop in Auckland only to discover
that it's only open Thurs-Sat. I was pretty bloody annoyed since I don't
fly to Auckland very often.

Anyway if I was to do what you were suggesting I'd base it on a couple of
combo music \ coffee shops I've been in. I'd have one side Gaming stuff
- board games, rpgs, minis, comics, DVD, posters etc and the other side a
coffee shop. At the back I'd have gaming tables.

The reason I'd do this is so when Johny geek boy wants to go to the
gaming store, his mum has a coffee and muffin while he's looking looking
around. The same with older gamers and their girlfriends\wifes. If it's
less a gamer funk pit you'll also get people coming in to by the gamer in
their life xmas and birthday presents.

Just my 2c :-)


--
Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 15, 2005 11:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95DF533BCF6ADrsingers@IP-Hidden...
> Out from under a rock popped Lattes and said
> [snip]
> > What I am really more interested in doing is making at least half the
> > store gaming area, some small comfortable nooks regular customers to
> > sit down and roleplay with some friends and a bunch of tables for
> > tabletop games. Of course there will be tournaments and regular gaming
> > nights but I would like to have at least 6 tables set up so you would
> > be able to come and play your own games with a couple of friends or
> > strangers if you like.
> >
> > I want to build a community around the whole thing, have a place for
> > people from 12 to 60 to get together and play and talk and enjoy
> > themselves.
>
> I don't think you do anyone any favours by not being profitable.
> Believe me it's a real pain in the arse not having a local gaming store
> because the owner's can run a business to save their lives. Most of the
> places here that still carry RPG stock do as a side line to comics. I
> went to visit the one historical\RPG shop in Auckland only to discover
> that it's only open Thurs-Sat. I was pretty bloody annoyed since I don't
> fly to Auckland very often.
>
> Anyway if I was to do what you were suggesting I'd base it on a couple of
> combo music \ coffee shops I've been in. I'd have one side Gaming stuff
> - board games, rpgs, minis, comics, DVD, posters etc and the other side a
> coffee shop. At the back I'd have gaming tables.
>
> The reason I'd do this is so when Johny geek boy wants to go to the
> gaming store, his mum has a coffee and muffin while he's looking looking
> around. The same with older gamers and their girlfriends\wifes. If it's
> less a gamer funk pit you'll also get people coming in to by the gamer in
> their life xmas and birthday presents.
>
> Just my 2c :-)
>

I would like to see a gaming store with maybe 2-3 tables in the open, main
part of the store, for pick up games, demos, etc, and then in a slightly
more restricted area (in back, second story, whatever) a pay-to-play area.
for a nominal fee- say 5 bucks for one days play, or 20 a month unlimited
play- hardcore gamers get access to ,oh, say 10-20 tables. This gives plenty
of room for gamers to play on, and the small fee keeps the riff-raff (
more to the point, munchkins with sticky fingers) away from the most hard
core element of your customer base.

Sell RPG stuff too. D&D, GURPS, etc. Let the RPers use the gaming tables too
( even the ones up front, so long as they dont scare the normals too badly
....)

A lot of the game stores in my area sell lots of anime and manga. one even
rents anime movies out. given the tastes of gamers, and how hard it is to
get some anime titles, this might be a good idea.

Sell minis by someone other than GW. Reaper is a good call, as is Iron wind
Metals (which has most of ral parthas old molds). But a good selection of
some truly weird or obscure mini companies stock would be great.

Keep a "Used mini/ Bitz Box" area , where anyone can bring in minis that are
old, damaged, warped, etc, and trade them for a (modest) store credit.
Having a bitz bin that large, that handy would come in extremely handy.

Tournamants every even weekend, rules/ model/ paint/ terrain/ etc workshops
every odd weekend.

I must also second Mr Singers suggestions... though a Starbucks in a gaming
store might be a bit odd. of course, maybe thats where the White Wolf crowd
could do their LARPing.

lastly- open this dream store within a 30 minute drive of my house ; )


--
Trav
hoodyhoo@KODT.net
To reply, replace 'KODT' with 'rfci'.
11/Sept/01: Never forget. Never forgive.
"You ask, what is our policy? I will say: it is to wage war, by sea, land
and air, and with all our might. . . . You ask, what is our aim? I can
answer in one word: victory. . . . Victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without
victory there is no survival!"
Winston Churchill
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 15, 2005 11:10:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

> lastly- open this dream store within a 30 minute drive of my house ; )
>
>

First off, thanks a ton, some great ideas there! :) 

Second, if you live smack dab in the middle between Peterborough and
Toronto you will be 30 minutes away because I will most likely be
opening in one of those cities. (Or possibly Victoria if we decide to move)
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 15, 2005 11:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Lattes" <bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:wt6dnXKqcsJdpHXcRVn-qg@rogers.com...
>
> > lastly- open this dream store within a 30 minute drive of my house ; )
> >
> >
>
> First off, thanks a ton, some great ideas there! :) 
>
> Second, if you live smack dab in the middle between Peterborough and
> Toronto you will be 30 minutes away because I will most likely be
> opening in one of those cities. (Or possibly Victoria if we decide to
move)

Im SOL then, because Im in the SE part of the US.

Ah well, guess its back to my hour+ drive to my FLGS...


--
Trav
hoodyhoo@KODT.net
To reply, replace 'KODT' with 'rfci'.
11/Sept/01: Never forget. Never forgive.
"The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being
carried out."
- George Carlin
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 15, 2005 11:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Lattes bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com wrote:
>I have been thinking about opening up a games only store,

A *lot* of money can be lost this way if you're not *very* well capitalized.

>GW, Wizards, Wizkids & other Role Playing gear.

My preferred lines would be WotC (MtG), WizKidz, WarMachine, and then GW.

If I were running the shop, I'd prefer not to carry RPG, which seems to be a
much slower seller. RPG is good because they keep the shop full. Maybe I'd
limit RPGs to DnD 3.5.

>Little or no comics (maybe some trade paperbacks)

Agree. Comics subscriptions are good, but otherwise, comics are an even better
way of losing money, as the non-subscription sales never seem to materialize.
Comics seem to be a great way of building inventory that doesn't generate much
of a return.

>To be honest it isn't going to be about making tons of money
>as I will have a reasonable size chunk of change from the
>sale of my business as well as funds that I have saved up.

OK, it's good that you're realistic.

I'd also offer consignement services, and broker miniatures painting services.

I'd avoid Internet gaming like the plague, due to the massive investment costs
and additional recurring costs, but I'd definitely have LAN support for people
to plug their laptops into.

>What I am really more interested in doing is making at least
>half the store gaming area, some small comfortable nooks
>regular customers to sit down and roleplay with some
>friends and a bunch of tables for tabletop games.

OK. Be sure to separate your spaces with a partition (wall) of some sort
between the two. Ideally, you set the register in the middle, the stock on one
side, and the gaming space on the other.

Build one walk-up 4'x8' gaming table with bar stools, a coffee table, and a
kitchen table.

>Of course there will be tournaments and regular gaming
>nights

IMO, it is these that are what separates an OK store from a great store.
Gaming nights and tournaments are what generate foot traffic (and sales) and
build community.

>I would like to have at least 6 tables set up

I don't know if you need this much table space initially, but if you double the
above, I guess it'd work.

The key thing is that you'll need a soda machine and a decent TV.


>What would YOU want to see in a space like this. What is
> YOUR ideal gaming space?

Underworld Comics and Games remains my gold standard. It's a great success,
due to great owner, great staff, in a great location (off college campus).

http://www.underworldcomics.com/index.php

--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwangCSI@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 16, 2005 1:22:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Out from under a rock popped incrdbil and said

> Suggestions: Snacks and food. Gamers aren't coffee shop types.

You make American gamers sound like Neandertals.

--
Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 16, 2005 1:22:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

>> Suggestions: Snacks and food. Gamers aren't coffee shop types.
>
> You make American gamers sound like Neandertals.
>

I'm sure they're not, but I've seen enough gamers to know there are good
and bad images to project, especially if
you're going to be selling stuff and want to attract new customers. Nothing
is less appealing to a potential customer than
the sight of two nerds having an argument as to whether Zog the Mighty died
eating a sandwich or a muffin. :) 

Re. your workers btw, and I admit this is a direct consequence of having
bought stuff in GW stores here in Britain,
don't make your staff too pushy. Over here if you buy anything they
automatically seem to ask if you're starting that army
and whether you've thought about buying X,Y and Z. I can see they want to
sell stuff but there's a fine line between
salesmanship and being 'in your face'.

Re. a store, I'd keep food and games separate - although I admit the idea
of being able to eat food at the table is great.
But then you've got potential collateral damage to the table, terrain, etc
so I'd say it probably isn't worth it. Having thought
about it a bit, I'd suggest having an enforced food area whilst the kids are
around and then allow adults to have food at the table
when they're gone - I'd suggest 7/8pm for that as kids stay up well beyond
that and you'll be doing yourself out of business
by booting them out.

Finally, if you had tables with some extra space at the end of them -
for books, dice, etc that would be great - otherwise
you're left having stuff on the table itself, chairs, anything you could
find.

:) 
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 16, 2005 1:22:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:00:05 +0000 (UTC), "Sartois"
<sartois99@hotmail.com> wrote:


> Finally, if you had tables with some extra space at the end of them -
>for books, dice, etc that would be great - otherwise
>you're left having stuff on the table itself, chairs, anything you could
>find.


If the tables are fairly high, storage space underneath is easy; if
you can arrange to make a lowered lip around the edge of a table, that
helps even more--a place to put dice, units that have been removed,
etc.
incrdbil
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 17, 2005 11:31:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

>>GW, Wizards, Wizkids & other Role Playing gear.
>
>My preferred lines would be WotC (MtG), WizKidz, WarMachine, and then GW.

I am going to get laughed and ridiculed for this, but I'll give my reasoning,
and quote an example.

Become a very LARGE Pokemon CGC retailer.

*pause*

Now that everyone has finished laughing, I'll explain...

Pokemon is still immensely popular. Believe it or not. It is one of those
things that can keep a store solvent and still allow it to do what it really
wants. Ok, so you have to hold a Pokemon tournament once every 3-6 months.
Yippie. Not a major problem.

My example is Clockwork Comics in Orange, CT. When all the big comic and game
stores in SW Connecticut were going belly up, they decided to be a Pokemon
specialist. Because of that reasoning, they are one of the few comic stores
left between New Have and NYC. It kept the store alive and open when everyone
else around them were going bankrupt. They did the same thing with Yu-Gi-Oh.

How do I know this? I frequent the store at least 3 times a week. And one of
the owners is a big 40k Eldar fan, like me.

See, it may be funny, but its not so dumb.

Bob
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

I'm running low on supplies. SPAM me, and I substitute YOU for eye of
Newt......
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 17, 2005 2:09:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Janet Quick wrote:

>
> <obligatory>
> How old are you? Are you married? Do you want to be?
> Most importantly - do you play fantasy?

Sorry Janet, although we are not technically married my partner and I
have a 6 month old son. This is a big part of the reason I want to open
the store, won't have to travel as much and be able to spend more time
together, as well it would be nice to have a place that he can come and
hang out with me at work in a couple of years. :) 
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 17, 2005 8:22:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

On 1/17/05 11:09 AM, in article lZadnQYUd5K8fnbcRVn-uA@rogers.com, "Lattes"
<bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote:

> Janet Quick wrote:
>
>>
>> <obligatory>
>> How old are you? Are you married? Do you want to be?
>> Most importantly - do you play fantasy?
>
> Sorry Janet, although we are not technically married my partner and I
> have a 6 month old son. This is a big part of the reason I want to open
> the store, won't have to travel as much and be able to spend more time
> together, as well it would be nice to have a place that he can come and
> hang out with me at work in a couple of years. :) 
>
Good, that's covered. So many would be so disappointed if I didn't take
advantage of such an opening.


janet
--
Under pressure, people admit to murder, setting fire to the village church
or robbing a bank, but never to being bores.
Elsa Maxwell
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 18, 2005 7:02:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

garnaralf1@aol.comspamtrap (Necro Kitty) wrote:
>>>GW, Wizards, Wizkids & other Role Playing gear.
>>
>>My preferred lines would be WotC (MtG), WizKidz,
>> WarMachine, and then GW.

>Become a very LARGE Pokemon CGC retailer.

I'm not laughing or pointing. Collectible Games are a great moneymaker. It's
no accident my first two lines were CCG and then CMG. You don't have to love
them above all else, but they'll pay the rent.

--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwangCSI@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
January 19, 2005 2:21:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

"Janet Quick" <janetq@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BE11A4E3.10C9D%janetq@hotmail.com...
> On 1/17/05 11:09 AM, in article lZadnQYUd5K8fnbcRVn-uA@rogers.com,
> "Lattes"
> <bumpin_removetoemail_@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> Janet Quick wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <obligatory>
>>> How old are you? Are you married? Do you want to be?
>>> Most importantly - do you play fantasy?
>>
>> Sorry Janet, although we are not technically married my partner and I
>> have a 6 month old son. This is a big part of the reason I want to open
>> the store, won't have to travel as much and be able to spend more time
>> together, as well it would be nice to have a place that he can come and
>> hang out with me at work in a couple of years. :) 
>>
> Good, that's covered. So many would be so disappointed if I didn't take
> advantage of such an opening.
>
So many...indeed.
!